I hope the surpreme court overturns this one!!!

[icerose]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15220450/

Bush has within his posession, a bill that negates habeas corpus!

[WDS]

I hope this is taken down, but the pessimist in me is screaming otherwise. :(

[aadams73]

I wish someone had the balls to impeach him. Just imagine how much more damage he could do over the next couple of years. :(

[icerose]

I hope this is taken down, but the pessimist in me is screaming otherwise. :(

I as well. We are becoming a dictatorship and no one is even stopping it. What's the point of having congress if they won't even read the bills that are passing before their eyes?!

[KTC]

lol. Your president is an ugly little man. All he needs is the tiny moustache.

[Andre_Laurent]

Let's be honest here, ALL of those fat ****s sitting in Washington are scum. They ALL want your money. And they ALL want to tell you when you can fart. If you think one party is not this way, then you are a fool.

Good day.

[icerose]

Let's be honest here, ALL of those fat ****s sitting in Washington are scum. They ALL want your money. And they ALL want to tell you when you can fart. If you think one party is not this way, then you are a fool.

Good day.

I think there are a few good individuals, you can't lump them all together, some politicians are truly good people looking to make a difference and that applies everywhere that politics occur. However, they are in the minority at this time and they are often the more outspoken of the lot.

[billythrilly7th]

We are becoming a dictatorship and no one is even stopping it.

Dictatorships don't have elections, so don't worry. I assure you everything will be fine.

Thank you.
:)

[Sheryl Nantus]

I've yet to see a good politician in ANY country that serves more than a single term.

it's like some sort of viral corruption gets them all, no matter what country they happen to be in.

[billythrilly7th]

I've yet to see a good politician in ANY country that serves more than a single term.

it's like some sort of viral corruption gets them all, no matter what country they happen to be in.

I'm sure there are a few, but generally, that's why I'm for term limits for all political offices.

One term, then goodbye.

[Andre_Laurent]

I'm sure there are a few, but generally, that's why I'm for term limits for all political offices.

One term, then goodbye.
It will never happen. They aren't going to vote themselves out of money and power.

Oh Gawd, shut me up before I really get started on them. :D

[billythrilly7th]

It will never happen. They aren't going to vote themselves out of money and power.


Of course not.

:(

[loquax]

Dictatorships don't have elections, so don't worry. I assure you everything will be fine.

Thank you.
:)If I wanted to start a dictatorship, I would continue the elections, and just rig them as to maintain the illusion of freedom. I hope America never does that.

[billythrilly7th]

If I wanted to start a dictatorship, I would continue the elections, and just rig them as to maintain the illusion of freedom. I hope America never does that.

Don't worry.

Every 4-8 years we'll have a new President. Every 2-6 years we'll have new congresses for the long long foreseeable future.

It's all good in the hood.

holla

[icerose]

Don't worry.

Every 4-8 years we'll have a new President. Every 2-6 years we'll have new congresses for the long long foreseeable future.

It's all good in the hood.

holla

Unless of course you pass masses of laws that take away all the freedoms, then what's the point of elections if anyone can storm into your house, arrest you without due cause, and keep you there until they feel like letting you out without being forced to tell you why you were even there in the first place?

I mean really, can anyone say China?

[Andre_Laurent]

Unless of course you pass masses of laws that take away all the freedoms, then what's the point of elections if anyone can storm into your house, arrest you without due cause, and keep you there until they feel like letting you out without being forced to tell you why you were even there in the first place?

I mean really, can anyone say China?
Even with the thieves we keep electing, this is still the best of a sorry lot. I have no desire to live in China and I don't think you would like it either.

[icerose]

Even with the thieves we keep electing, this is still the best of a sorry lot. I have no desire to live in China and I don't think you would like it either.

I have no desire to live there but our country is quickly becoming such, unless someone pulls back hard on the reigns and stops this nonsense.

[Andre_Laurent]

I have no desire to live there but our country is quickly becoming such, unless someone pulls back hard on the reigns and stops this nonsense.
It isn't going to happen. Perhaps if we get the **** bombed out of us one day, people will wake up.

As long as we have the current republicrats, nothing will change.

[billythrilly7th]

Unless of course you pass masses of laws that take away all the freedoms, then what's the point of elections if anyone can storm into your house, arrest you without due cause, and keep you there until they feel like letting you out without being forced to tell you why you were even there in the first place?


Yeah, well luckily we don't have those laws and never will.

I suggest you do a little more in depth analysis of the law that was passed regarding enemy combatants and all of your "habeas corpus" worries and contentions.

Thank you.

[billythrilly7th]

I have no desire to live there but our country is quickly becoming such, unless someone pulls back hard on the reigns and stops this nonsense.

Not even close.

:eye roll and with a headshake emoticon:

[blacbird]

If I wanted to start a dictatorship, I would continue the elections, and just rig them as to maintain the illusion of freedom. I hope America never does that.

Which is exactly what a fair number of dictators do and have done historically. Castro has elections, doesn't he? Mugabe, too, I believe. Saddam Hussein had elections. The Soviets had elections.

Elections only work well as long as the public maintains trust in their fairness. It bothers me considerable that for the U.S. public, by all the polls I've seen, that trust is eroding. Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004 didn't help it any.

caw.

[billythrilly7th]

Ohio 2004 didn't help it any

:eye roll with a snort sound effect emoticon:

[blacbird]

But Thrillsy, regardless of your personal view of the appropriateness of the outcome in Ohio in 2004, there's not much question that the thing raised eyebrows and has contributed to the growing distrust of election reliability in general. The electronic voting morass doesn't help, either. And given that the upcoming vote is a certainty to be verrrrrrrry close between the two major parties, that distrust is only going to get accentuated. Stay tuned.

caw.

[billythrilly7th]

But Thrillsy, regardless of your personal view of the appropriateness of the outcome in Ohio in 2004, there's not much question that the thing raised eyebrows and has contributed to the growing distrust of election reliability in general.

Not really.

Other than the loony far left, the vast majority of Americans don't even gives the "Ohio outcome" a moment of thought.

The 2000 election was a different story.

And you are right regarding the electronic voting.

It's a disaster waiting to happen, not because of rigging, but because of software failure.

That's why the paper ballots were perfect. Perfect. Punch a hole in the right friggin slot, make sure nothing is hanging and drop in the bin. It's called voter responsibility. Then the counters will count them and tell you who wins. Whatever the counter says, that's it. And there is a physical ballot that can be recounted if necessary according to state recount laws.

But some people couldn't follow directions and then whined when their votes didn't count so then we moved to electronic voting and everyone is whining about that.

So, you can't win.

Thank you.

[English Dave]

I like the pencil and the X. Maybe I'm just old.

[billythrilly7th]

I like the pencil and the X. Maybe I'm just old.

Me too.

No joke.

Magic markers and make a big X in the box next to your candidate.

No problems.

Except for the morons who can't do that either.

I counted ballots last year for the Colorado elections as some of you may remember. It was a mark the X ballot.

Pick FIVE candidates.

Idiots picked SIX.

CHOOSE ONE CANDIDATE...

IDIOTS picked TWO.

Adios ala your vote, hump.

But generally it worked great. We fed the paper ballots into the machine and it counted them.

Any disputed ballots, overvotes, undervotes, PEOPLE WHO CAN'T COLOR WITHIN THE LINES, went to a team of two people. A conservative and a democrat and they would decide what to do with the vote. And there weren't any problems.


Thank you.

[blacbird]

Me too.

No joke.

Magic markers and make a big X in the box next to your candidate.

No problems.

Except for the morons who can't do that either.

I counted ballots last year for the Colorado elections as some of you may remember. It was a mark the X ballot.

Pick FIVE candidates.

Idiots picked SIX.

CHOOSE ONE CANDIDATE...

IDIOTS picked TWO.

Adios ala your vote, hump.

But generally it worked great. We fed the paper ballots into the machine and it counted them.

Any disputed ballots, overvotes, undervotes, PEOPLE WHO CAN'T COLOR WITHIN THE LINES, went to a team of two people. A conservative and a democrat and they would decide what to do with the vote. And there weren't any problems.


Thank you.

We are in complete agreement on this one.

caw.

[blacbird]

But some people couldn't follow directions and then whined when their votes didn't count so then we moved to electronic voting and everyone is whining about that.

Naaaah. Electronic voting came along as an inevitability owing to development of the technology and the premise (probably false) that it would save money and be more accurate. It was a natural succession to the old punch-card voting machines, and had little or nothing to do with people whining about their votes not counting.

But it's a horror waiting to happen, for all kinds of reasons.

caw.

[English Dave]

Here's an idea. Pick ONE candidate. Mark X. The End.

[billythrilly7th]

But it's a horror waiting to happen

Yes.

Yes it is.

It's a bad idea.

Power failures, corrupted software, no paper trails.

It's awful.

In NY we always went into that boothy thing and shut the curtain and pulled the lever thingies. What kind of voting is that? I don't even get it. Is the machine just counting the number of levers pulled or is pulling the lever causing some type of paper punch.

This thing...

http://www.liducks.com/images/soEditor/Voting%20Booth%20web.jpg

Whatever. Seemed to work good.

When it comes to voting and technology I refer to the old Thrilly adage...

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."
Mortimer Thrilly the Great
1567

[icerose]

Yeah, well luckily we don't have those laws and never will.

I suggest you do a little more in depth analysis of the law that was passed regarding enemy combatants and all of your "habeas corpus" worries and contentions.

Thank you.

Yes, alone it isn't much of a threat. HOWEVER, coupled with the Patriot Act, anyone inside or outside the US can be considered an enemy combatant and arrested without due cause, and this would give them even more wiggle room to not even tell you why you are in prison.

Couple that scary thought with electronic balets and dang, I'm glad I live in a very small town.

[billythrilly7th]

anyone inside or outside the US can be considered an enemy combatant and arrested without due cause

Please let me know when an American citizen, residing within our borders, is considered an enemy combatant, pulled from his home and thrown in jail without due cause and not told why he's in jail.

I will happily take their case pro Bono.

I am nothing if not pro Bono.

Thank you.

[English Dave]

Please let me know when an American citizen, residing within our borders, is considered an enemy combatant, pulled from his home and thrown in jail without due cause and not told why he's in jail.

I will happily take their case pro Bono.

I am nothing if not pro Bono.

Thank you.

You, me and a few other like minded people. Tomorrow the world!

[billythrilly7th]

You, me and a few other like minded people. Tomorrow the world!

lol....


Dave, I must warn you....

Habeas Corpus does not apply to YOU. So, please be careful. I don't think they let you messageboard post down at Gitmo.

Good luck!

[Andre_Laurent]

:eye roll with a snort sound effect emoticon:
I live in Ohio. I voted. There were no problems.

[Andre_Laurent]

Which is exactly what a fair number of dictators do and have done historically. Castro has elections, doesn't he? Mugabe, too, I believe. Saddam Hussein had elections. The Soviets had elections.

Elections only work well as long as the public maintains trust in their fairness. It bothers me considerable that for the U.S. public, by all the polls I've seen, that trust is eroding. Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004 didn't help it any.

caw.
If someone is so dumb that they can't figure out how to vote, they shouldn't be allowed to in the first place because obviously, they aren't smart enough to know what they are voting for anyway.

[Andre_Laurent]

Naaaah. Electronic voting came along as an inevitability owing to development of the technology and the premise (probably false) that it would save money and be more accurate. It was a natural succession to the old punch-card voting machines, and had little or nothing to do with people whining about their votes not counting.

But it's a horror waiting to happen, for all kinds of reasons.

caw.
As a computer programmer, I am highly qualified to say this is a very bad idea.

[billythrilly7th]

If someone is so dumb that they can't figure out how to vote, they shouldn't be allowed to it the first place because obviously, they aren't smart enough to know what they are voting for anyway.

Of course.

http://lonestartimes.com/images/Benzion/March_06/Hanging_Chad.jpg

[English Dave]

If someone is so dumb that they can't figure out how to vote, they shouldn't be allowed to it the first place because obviously, they aren't smart enough to know what they are voting for anyway.

I have difficulty motivating myself for one X. Do you live in the real World?

[Andre_Laurent]

Do you live in the real World?
I try not to. :D

[billythrilly7th]

I have difficulty motivating myself for one X. Do you live in the real World?

Don't you still have Kings and Queens?

I have no idea how that place works.

I'm pretty sure you don't even get to vote.

But I'm not positive.

[English Dave]

Don't you still have Kings and Queens?

I have no idea how that place works.

I'm pretty sure you don't even get to vote.

But I'm not positive.

I rest my case. lol

[Shadow_Ferret]

I'd get outraged, but I have no idea what habeas corpusal is except a term they use on the lawyer shows.

[TheGaffer]

Elections only work well as long as the public maintains trust in their fairness. It bothers me considerable that for the U.S. public, by all the polls I've seen, that trust is eroding.

As they say, it's not the voting, it's the counting.

And habeus corpus is the right to challenge your detention in a court of law - to be given a reason why you're being detained. And this bill would, indeed, suspend it based on the whim of the president, which is too much trust to have invested in any one man.

[icerose]

I'd get outraged, but I have no idea what habeas corpusal is except a term they use on the lawyer shows.

Habeas corpus is your right to know why you have been arrested.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Habeas corpus is your right to know why you have been arrested.

Wasn't even aware I had that right.

But they keep talking about a Military commission. The military has it's own rules. Is this something that will effect the military, or us civilians?

I would have prefered a real link that explained it in more detail instead of a typical Oberman diatribe.

[billythrilly7th]

Is this something that will effect the military, or us civilians?

It will only effect non-citizen enemy combatants who don't have constitutional rights.

Anyone who tells you otherwise would not be clear thinking.

So, sleep very well, Shadrock. It's all good in da hood.

Thank you.

[billythrilly7th]

Wasn't even aware I had that right.


Yep. YOU do.

Khalid Sheik Mohammad and others like him do not.

[icerose]

Not quite so billy,
It says enemy combatant. With the hunt for terrorists inside the United States, that applies to every US citizen if they suspect you are an enemy combatant, a terrorist.

Combine that with the Patriot Act that can take anyone into custody without due cause, without a warrant, and can listen and infringe every bit of your privacy without a reason, you have a bad situation.

This brings on very bad flashbacks to the World War II and cold war campaign of "Who's the Communist" except I think this time will be much worse.

[billythrilly7th]

Your analysis of the Patriot Act is frighteningly incorrect, alarmist and funny.

No offense.
:)

[billythrilly7th]

that applies to every US citizen

Then my advice to you is don't help terrorists and you won't have any problems.

Easy as pie.

And, once again, please let me know when the first U.S. citizen is snatched off the street and denied habeas corpusal.

Thank you.

[billythrilly7th]

This brings on very bad flashbacks to the World War II and cold war campaign of "Who's the Communist" except I think this time will be much worse.

Nah.

You won't hear a word about it actually.

Because despite paranoid delusions of FBI and CIA breaking down the doors of good 'ole American citizens in some neo-conservative we're taking over the country and forcing our beliefs upon you and if you don't agree we're throwing you in a gulag,....this law will be applying to Al Queda and their friends.

So, don't worry.


"Reagan's gonna blow up the world!!!"
1984

I've seen this before. The beauty of aging. The same record played over and over again.

[billythrilly7th]

that applies to every US citizen if they suspect you are an enemy combatant, a terrorist.



http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/guests/s_474933.html

But Congress has now eliminated habeas rights for noncitizens, not in response to a massive invasion but for an amorphous "global war on terror" where the enemy is anyone seeking to do us or our friends harm.

http://www.oregonlive.com/commentary/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/1160531782177720.xml&coll=7

According to the Military Commissions Act of 2006, Bush has this unquestioned power -- without the annoyance of habeas corpus -- over any enemy combatants picked up on the battlefield or anyplace else, and millions of noncitizens living in the United States considered to "purposely and materially" support terrorist organizations.

I'm damn happy I'm a citizen.
:)

[robeiae]

Not quite so billy,
It says enemy combatant. With the hunt for terrorists inside the United States, that applies to every US citizen if they suspect you are an enemy combatant, a terrorist.You're confused. An "enemy combatant" has a legal defintion: “Any person that US or allied forces could properly detain under the laws and customs of war. For purposes of the war on terror an enemy combatant includes, but is not necessarily limited to, a member or agent of Al Qaeda, Taliban, or another international terrorist organization against which United States is engaged in an armed conflict. This may include those individuals or entities designated in accordance with references E or G, as identified in applicable Executive Orders approved by the Secretary of Defense.”

Joint Doctrine for Detainee Operations (http://hrw.org/campaigns/torture/jointdoctrine/jointdoctrine040705.pdf), pg.23.

It doesn't actually apply to every citizen in the U.S. from the point of view that "everyone" could be a suspected member of Al Qaeda, though I understand how ready many are to make this jump. However, if you are suspected of terrorist activities, but currently are on U.S. soil, you could be so classified. My advice--avoid engaging in terrorist activities or sending checks to terrorist organizations, ala Billy's advice.

[icerose]

Because despite paranoid delusions of FBI and CIA breaking down the doors of good 'ole American citizens in some neo-conservative we're taking over the country and forcing our beliefs upon you and if you don't agree we're throwing you in a gulag,....this law will be applying to Al Queda and their friends.



Tell that to the women's lit author who was arrested and got all of her computer equipment confiscated for mere research for her book.

[billythrilly7th]

Tell that to the women's lit author who was arrested and got all of her computer equipment confiscated for mere research for her book.

Would you like to elaborate on that and maybe provide a link?

I'd be more than happy to tell her that if I knew who she was.

[icerose]

I'm looking for the link, it was discussed on this site, but I can't seem to find it. I will keep looking.

Anyway, the things that can get you arrested under the patriot act:

Unusual bank activity - banks and credit unions are required to compile reports of anything out of the ordinary for the person's habits to the government under penalty of law.
Research on the internet, triggering enough keywords.
Checking out Library books, the books on the list.
And there are others but I can't remember which other ones they watch.

[Forbidden Snowflake]

Where is the moustache, seriously, where is it? I am sure in front of his mirror he paints one on.

Take him down. Shoot him. Just somebody do SOMETHING.

(Oh and bye boards, I'm sure in five minutes I'll be arrested :( )

[Bravo]

yea, snowflake.

if that doesnt protect the democratic process nothing will.



p.s. that really really was not a bright idea to put in a post. im not quoting you so that you might reconsider what you just said.

thank you

[Forbidden Snowflake]

If you've seen me posting across the boards you know I'm against death penalty and don't think anyone deserves to die, no matter what happened.

So, I wasn't serious on the shooting.

I just wish there was a way to take him out of office, because he's starting to scare me.

[Jamesaritchie]

I wish someone had the balls to impeach him. Just imagine how much more damage he could do over the next couple of years. :(

Just about as much damage as the average liberal does every three minutes.

"Liberalism is nothing more than a philosophy of consulation as the west commits suicide." _unknown, but truly wise.

[Jamesaritchie]

If you've seen me posting across the boards you know I'm against death penalty and don't think anyone deserves to die, no matter what happened.

So, I wasn't serious on the shooting.

I just wish there was a way to take him out of office, because he's starting to scare me.

I don;t like seeing anyone die, either. But I'm not barbaric enough, silly enough, or uncivilized enough to allow those who commit ruthless murder to live. Doing so is not kind, is not rational, and is in no way civilized. It says only that yoo care more for the life of a ruthless killer than for the people he butchered.

No civilized person allows the guilty to live while the innocent die.

[English Dave]

I don;t like seeing anyone die, either. But I'm not barbaric enough, silly enough, or uncivilized enough to allow those who commit ruthless murder to live. Doing so is not kind, is not rational, and is in no way civilized. It says only that yoo care more for the life of a ruthless killer than for the people he butchered.

No civilized person allows the guilty to live while the innocent die.

James.....just James. The definition of civilized is that you rise above an eye for an eye. You keep posting this crap. No doubt you have your followers.

[robeiae]

The definition of civilized is that you rise above an eye for an eye.No, the defintion of civilized is someone who believes they are better than someone else, as a matter of course and of fact. Ain't no civilized without an uncivilized...

[blacbird]

James.....just James. The definition of civilized is that you rise above an eye for an eye. You keep posting this crap. No doubt you have your followers.

Or chasers.

caw.

[English Dave]

No, the defintion of civilized is someone who believes they are better than someone else, as a matter of course and of fact.


Maybe. Isn't that what religion is all about? Not to be disparaging to Religion. But to quote Popeye I am what I am.

[robeiae]

Maybe. Isn't that what religion is all about?Depends on where you go for services...it's never been that way in any church I've called home.

[English Dave]

Depends on where you go for services...it's never been that way in any church I've called home.

Good luck as someone who doesn't worry where their next drink of clean water is coming from. It's great to live in the West.

[robeiae]

Good luck as someone who doesn't worry where their next drink of clean water is coming from. It's great to live in the West.You spend too much time taking the bartender at his word...mix your own drinks. :D

[English Dave]

You spend too much time taking the bartender at his word...mix your own drinks. :D

I'm drunk or insane. I must be a candidate for Congress.

[TsukiRyoko]

...And then, the world exploded in a vibrant display of shooting that smelled like the brimstone of Hell.

[Tiger]

Maybe. Isn't that what religion is all about? Not to be disparaging to Religion. But to quote Popeye I am what I am.

Civilization, religion, politics, academia... IMHO, the worst in human nature is in peoples' attempts to argue their way to the end of the evolutionary line.

[Tiger]

James.....just James. The definition of civilized is that you rise above an eye for an eye.

A cynic might argue that the definition of civilized is that you find a bureaucratic means of giving away someone else's eye before your own can get pinched.

[Unique]

A cynic might argue that the definition of civilized is that you find a bureaucratic means of giving away someone else's eye before your own can get pinched.

Can I quote you on that? I like your definition.

[Tiger]

Can I quote you on that? I like your definition.

You may indeed.

[English Dave]

A cynic might argue that the definition of civilized is that you find a bureaucratic means of giving away someone else's eye before your own can get pinched.

True. But I don't think that cynic has grasped the true meaning of Democracy.

[Tiger]

True. But I don't think that cynic has grasped the true meaning of Democracy.

Who gets to decide what that cynic's level of understanding of democracy is? Upon what would he base such a judgement?

-D

[English Dave]

Who gets to decide what that cynic's level of understanding of democracy is? Upon what would he base such a judgement?

-D

If I had any faith in the public then I'd say they have. The bastards.

[Tiger]

If I had any faith in the public then I'd say they have. The bastards.

I can live with that. Granted, a large percentage of us really suck.