How to write a best-selling fantasy novel

[ElonnaT]

This is funny and not far from true ;)

How to Write... (http://members.ozemail.com.au/~imcfadyen/notthenet/fantasy.htm)

[Risseybug]

OMG, that is funny.
I actually use one or two of those elements in my first book. But my main character is a unconfident female, 11 years old. :b :b The few others are not the same either.
The new WIP will not have any "creatures" - not a dwarf or elf among them.

[DaveKuzminski]

Phooey, I broke every rule. Maybe I should start over?

[ElonnaT]

How dare you be original Dave! :grin

[Risseybug]

Well, Dave, you know rules are made to be broken!
Hey, now just to be clear, my "world", is not square, it's more round. I drew a map somewhere.....:rollin

And I have NO orcs. And I have a working economy. At least, I mention farms, and my major city has shops and a marketplace.

So I guess I don't know how to follow rules either!:rofl

[DaveKuzminski]

My story is based upon the economy, so it had to have a realistic one with trade of various products and services that serve as the basis for some of the conflicts that take place. One job is actually threatened by the introduction of another from a remote culture that becomes a trading partner, so there's even unemployment! Thank goodness, I took Economics in college.

And I didn't draw a map, but the world is round and the characters know it. The heroes are generally educated for their positions. A few find advancement outside their positions, but they're soon educated for those so that their later success isn't a matter of luck.

Nope, no orcs or dwarves, but it does have some winged humans.

No giants, but it does have dinosaurs!

Does have wizards, but not just one or two, but lots of them. Lots of witches, too.

The main characters don't always win and aren't always good. Some even die.

[Risseybug]

The main characters don't always win and aren't always good. Some even die.


Ohhh, good point. But I write YA novels, so trying to make the main character a bad guy can be kind of tricky. Not that it's impossible. Read an Artemis Fowl book. Mr. Colfer has just the right balance of being a boy and a right little bastard too.


I like the winged humans thing too. Sounds very interesting!

[arainsb123]

:rollin That's hilarious!!!! I'm willing to bet that Paolini used that guide when he wrote Eragon :grin .

My parody has huts and castles, but no caves! GASP! I have been remiss!

[Risseybug]

And I have a cave (or two - one is a home and one is a short passage) and a castle but no huts. :lol
The closest thing that I come to it is a cottage.

[Yeshanu]

My parody has huts and castles, but no caves!

You absolutely cannot write a fantasy novel without caves that are extensive and house whole cities (without any apparent food source for said cities.)

Better fix that fast! :grin

[XThe NavigatorX]

That's pretty funny.

[arainsb123]

Oh wait - I do have a cave. *sigh of relief* :grin

[Kida Adelyn]

I don't have a cave, or a hut. Accually, I Havn't figured what that guy lives in. I do have a castle. Not really castle but close...
I'm gonna stop talking to myself now.

My mum subjected me to that thing a long time ago. I love it.:grin

[Writing Again]

My current fantasy novel has 70,000 of 150,000 words. I'll reserve at least one of them for "hut."

[Flawed Creation]

let's see....

i have

the guide (he's useless... because he's pacifistic... he makes everyone else kill poeple for him, becaus ehe doesn't feel like it)

a castle

a pure maiden warrior

skip the hard parts

lead up to a confrontation

easily breaching the stronghold (of the protag, not the BBEG)

and probably a few more

[macalicious731]

Shoot... no castle, no hut, no cave!!

What the heck am I gonna do now? Hmm... perhaps I should just rewrite the whole thing?

[Pthom]

I'm really thankful that I'm writing a semi-hard* science fiction story. No castles, no caves, no huts.

I do have several million cubic meters of bologonium, though. Does that count?



* don't ask.

[macalicious731]

Can I ask what bologonium is?

[ChunkyC]

May I, Pthom?

Bolognium is a term coined by Larry Niven, to describe that element of a science fiction story that cannot be explained by current science. Light Sabres are bolognium. Warp drive and transporter technology are bolognium. Mr. Niven suggests one piece of bolognium is enough per story. Two is pushing it. Three and you're not really writing science fiction any more. (that last contention is mine)

[Pthom]

Chunky, thanks. Your contention agrees with David Gerrold who says in his book, Worlds of Wonder (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1582970076/104-4110157-0247966?v=glance):Niven says that there is a limited amount of bolognium a writer can put into a story. A good science fiction story can sustain one piece of bolognium suite well. Stories with two pieces of bolognium require significant skill in juggling and should not be attempted by beginners. Three pieces of bolognium represent critical mass, and no one less than a grand master should attempt such a challenge. Stories with four or more pieces of bolognium are called "fantasies."

[ChunkyC]

Y'know, Gerrold sure is right about the 'Grand Master' part. After posting, I wondered if I was a bit harsh with the '3 bits of bolognium' statement. I recalled Niven's own Ringworld, which has at least three: the stasis field, faster than light travel, and the material the ringworld is made from: scrith -- though one could argue that FTL travel is such a necessity for science fiction that a writer should be allowed to have that one free. :grin

[ElonnaT]

So does it become science-fantasy at that point?

[HConn]

Only some types of FTL are bolognium.

IMO.

[Pthom]

Niven's own Ringworld, which has at least three: the stasis field, faster than light travel, and the material the ringworld is made from: scrithYou forget Niven's stepping booths and the autodoc? And the General Products Hull?

Niven puts in so much bolognium in his stories and does it so well, it's hard to remember what's sausage and what's not.

;)

[Lori Basiewicz]

But is it really bolognium if it isn't completely invented? For instance, if it is a theoretical possibility but science just hasn't figured it out yet? I would argue those cases aren't pure bolognium.

[Pthom]

No argument from me, Lori. Nor, do I believe you'd get any from Niven, Card or Gerrold, et al.

Merely extrapolating on known technology isn't bolognium--as long as it stays within the realm of known physics, medicine, genetics, yadda, yadda. For example: current string theory postulates that the "big bang" was caused by two parallel universes colliding, and such events may be ongoing. Or, for other examples: no reason we can't imagine cloning, genetic enhancements, human life spans exceeding a century...not bolognium.

But -- Faster-than-light travel is...at least for matter we expect to be recognizable once the trip is over. Same goes for a "transporter" that moves matter across vast distances without a receiving terminal. If your story depends on such "conventions" of science fiction, your story is built with bolognium. As for "pure" bolognium? Well, I think there is no doubt a wide variety of the stuff, from raw ore (space-faring dolphins) to highly refined (scrith).

[HConn]

8o :nerd 8o :nerd 8o :nerd 8o :nerd 8o :nerd 8o :nerd

[ChunkyC]

Mornin' all. Hey Pthom -- feel like flexing your new Mod powers? I was wondering if perhaps it would be an idear to move these bolognium posts out of the '...write a best-selling fantasy novel' thread and into their own, where we could continue to discuss ''how much bolognium is bad for your novel's health'.

Just a thought... :)

[Lori Basiewicz]

*whine* I don't know if I want to continue this discussion. All this talk about bolognium just keeps reminding me that I still need to go to the university library to look up science articles about plasma energy so I can design the weapon systems used in my universe. :head :ack :head :ack :head

[macalicious731]

Hmm.. then I have bolognium in my novel, too, and I didn't even know it. Well... sorta. Kinda.

Maybe?

[HollyB]

I thought FTL travel was a gimme. Or, I should say, I hoped FTL was a gimme. HConn... multi gen spacecrafts okay, wormhole travel okay, warp speed not okay?


http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage16/1.gif

Luke, use the force...

[ChunkyC]

I think Warp Drive, being specific to Star Trek, would be bolognium, though a borderline case since it's a construct to allow for FTL. However, the concept of hyperspace is kind of in the science fiction 'public domain', so that would be a gimme even if it does fit Niven's definition of bolognium.

[DaveKuzminski]

Okay, genetic modification is already possible... been done, so not bolognium (NB)

Overriding dominate genes with recessive...already happens occasionally in nature, I believe, so NB

Orbiting satelites that take energy from sun or fringe of atmosphere where it meets space...possible, so NB

Creatures that can generate electricity...already exist, so NB

Levitation of objects and self...possible for a creature that can generate electricity? B or NB?

Telepathy...B or NB?

Lack of caves, huts, and castles...B or NB?

[Yeshanu]

Lack of caves, huts, and castles...B or NB?

Definitely B. :lol

Seriously, I think caves are a "gimme" bolognium in fantasy novels, along with castles that are built like medieval castles but need to repel air strikes (from dragons)...

[ChunkyC]

built like medieval castles but need to repel air strikes (from dragons)
:rofl oh man, I never thought about that particular angle!

[HConn]

According to _The Physics of Star Trek_ a warp bubble actually distorts space rather than providing motion through inertia.

:nerd

Frankly, I think certain concepts have been grandfathered into the genre. FTL and telepathy are bolognium in the real world, but tradition makes them acceptable in sf. In skiffy, at least.

[A Pathetic Writer]

You have to have an element of common sense, though... WITHOUT huts, castles, or caves... where the hell does anyone go?

The mall?

[HConn]

Well, of course they live in the mighty hive built by Our Most Generous Lords.

Praise the holy pollen, fellow citizens! Dance the dance of nectar, fellow drones!

[Kempo Kid]

Well, I do have a castle. And a cave. And a girl warrior. But the cave is full of stinky bats, and the girl warrior is not (blush) a maiden.

My novel is quite long, though. I got that bit right.

[Jamesaritchie]

Actually, that's a list of things you aren't supposed to do in a fantasy novel unless you don't want the book published.

[Kempo Kid]

Well, like, DUH! Like I couldn't have figured that one out on my own!

Thank you for pointing out the obvious.

Sorry I posted.