new version - no voice over

[Vigorish9]

FADE IN:

EXT. NEVADA DESERT – NIGHT

Push across the vastness… toward a dot of light in the distance… the sound of a shovel hitting earth –-

The light gets closer… as the rhythmic sound of digging intensifies, shovel to earth, again and again… LOUDER…


The light manifests into a SUBURBAN, it’s bumper hangs like broken teeth, scarred with mud.

Headlights cut into darkness --- It’s back hatch open, TWO BODIES, one in a tux, gagged, bloody.

The other, not a drop of blood on a tailored shirt, pressed pants... his eyes pop open.

INT. HOLE – SAME

Headlights spray over a grave. Heavy breathing. A shovel flies from the ground, then an arm.

EDDIE THE ACE, (40s) long ago athletic, pulls himself out, covered in blood, wheezing badly… takes blasts from an inhaler… his breathe slower… more control... steadier...

A crackle from behind, the light momentarily interrupted -- a brief look at the business end of a shovel.

BLACK


EXT. DINER PARKING LOT - NEVADA BORDER – 2 HOURS LATER

The Suburban hogs two spots in an empty parking lot.

Past a Red Neon sign: ‘Last Stop Diner’. In flickering green below: ‘Free Coffee for losers’.

Into this dessert way station.

INT. DINER

DUGAN ROACH, (25) gaunt and sinewy, the other guy in the Suburban, sporting a ‘shiner’ and fat lip, spins a custom lighter on the tabletop.

DUGAN
(severe Scottish accent)
You were digging mate… in the
faucken ground… with a shovel.

EDDIE
I wasn’t dropping you in --

Across from Dugan, sits Eddie, nervous ass hell, dried blood caked in his hair, wearing wild, paniced eyes.

DUGAN
Don’t sell me that story.

EDDIE
I swear to god I was putting
the Ghord in the ground. It was only
deep enough for one.

DUGAN
I can hand you in, be done with
ya – get me life back.
* * * *
EDDIE
Wasn’t you in it... I swear.
Listen Dugn.. it was yo who killed
the Ghord.... fer Christ sakes
we're both dead... Benny will
turn the world upside down.

DUGAN
you back me into this...
i can't save ya.

He flips the lighter to a hand rolled cigarette. The flame burns to smoke --

[scripter1]

meaning no disrespect to anyone, I liked the first one better. It has more personality, style, and interesting events.
I didn't see any greater character development in this version. Dugan performs the exact same actions as before. In fact I think taking out the VO eliminates some of the character.
Talking about yourself, narrating your own life story is a character trait in and of itself.

You also shifted the focus from Dugan to Ed the ace.
HE'S the one that really did something, digging the hole, being all bloody.... this makes him standout more in our minds. We don't even see Dugan hit him with the shovel. Then all Dugan does is talk.
This makes Ed the interesting one.

Vig, this version seems rushed.
It looks as though you got a little advice that for what ever reason sounded good to you and so you immediately switched things around trying to match it and then re-posted.
I don't know, maybe in the long run Simon will be right and the VO needs to go.
Maybe the script will be better served for it.
That can't really be determined at this point. You'll have to put the whole script together and see how it works as a whole.

[Fartin Mowler]

Free coffee for losers...I like tea myself.

[SimonSays]

Vig -

I'm not going to talk about what I like and what I don't like - because that's not really going to help you.

The suggestion that there is no character development in this version - is just plain silly.

First we see Dugan in the Suburban - when we see Eddie digging, we think he's three minutes from dead. Then when we see them in the diner - we realize he's Eddie's cohort - not his target - but we find out that there is some sort of conflict between them - and finally we discover that Dugan's the one who killed the Ghord and instead of Dugan being scared of Eddie - it appears to be the other way around. That's a hell of lot to learn about the guy in two pages (far more than we learn in the V.O. version). And there are twists and turns as well - all good.

The one question I do have for you - and it's really a structural issue - is whether it helps or hurts you to reveal all this up-front. You obviously revealed this at a later point in your draft as currently written. Having this scene upfront will seriously impact the way your story unfolds and how the audience views Dugan from the very start. It all depends on how you want the audience to view him.

In your last version he was set-up to be a little more sympathetic -as saw him as kind of a low-life loser. In this version - he's more powerful - going toe to toe with Eddie. Just thought I should point that out.

[Vigorish9]

i can respect both sides of the fence. the voice over is much more polished simply because it was my original version of the story.

but as i get it tighter, it will read just as well, and as i've said myself, voice over takes away from the urgency of the situation becuase it's not as active.

you guys are great, thanks, and i will concentrate on a beat sheet to see what works and what detracts or enhnances the flow of the story..

i like this version better because eddie is the scum, the con man. Dugan was set to find eddie the ace by an guy calle benny delton. when dugan finds eddie he hands him over to benny and he's free.

but hitch is dugan and eddie were friends. the subplot is that the ORGAN DOCtORS, a couple who relieve people of organs and stuff some how mark dugan -- the ace ends up saving dugan, killing those two, in a crazy scene and the first scene we see is eddie burying these people.

vig

vig

[SimonSays]

Vig -

Clarification, please. In the diner you refer to Dugan as the other guy in the Suburban - it reads like he was one of the guys in the Tux - and they were burying one guy.

But in your note above - you said that Eddie offed two people and was burying them in that scene.

[Vigorish9]

there are two guys in the suburban. One is the ghord, he's dead, the other is Dugan.

eddie is digging the hole. Dugan gets out - cracks a shovel over eddie's head, cause he has no clue what's going on.

so, the second act plays right up through to this scene and we see the lead up and the entire scene, with perspective.

clarification, the ORGAN DOCTORS where in the suburban already, on top of the ghord and dugan, and eddie already buried those two.

we see that as the story runs into the bookend.

this is a very ambitious project for me... i'm looking forward to it. i'd call it a deviation of LOCK STOCK AND TWO SMOKING BARRELS... and 'GO' with a dash of the LIMEY.

vig

[scripter1]

Wow Vig,

The logline says nothing about all the rest of what's going on and you have YET to reveal an understandable, well defined conflict.
What you have are an interesting series of events experianced by quirky characters.
(so all our quibbling about character development and VO is totally meaningless. There is no REAL story here yet.)

What is Dugan's GOAL?
What is it he MUST do? And when must it happen by or before what disastrous thing happens to him?
And who is opposing him?
THAT is what should be in your logline and guiding your writing.

"-the bookie gives dugan a choice, either find eddie, or i tell the cops in scotland what really happen."

This is a start but it's still pretty ambiguous.
So maybe your logline and concept could look something like this.

When a down on his luck Scotsman finds himself blackmailed by his boss he must choose between turning in his best friend or being killed in his place.

It really sucks but at least there is conflict there.
Conflict is all about choices and being forced between that metaphoric rock and a hard place.

You'll have to figure out how to work in all the details that make your story unique and interesting, like the organ donors, and the murder, and all that.

I'm just trying to get you thinking about the bare bones, core conflict of your story.
Which I am not seeing.

(PS. Could you please work on cleaning up your posts a little? I had to do quite a bit of interpreting to figure out what you were saying.)

[Vigorish9]

1. What is Dugan's GOAL? - To pay his 'indentured servant' time and fetch his mum from scottland.

2. What is it he MUST do? dugan must find eddie the ace

3. And when must it happen by or before what disastrous thing happens to him? to get out from under BENNY DELTONE the guy who knows that Dugan is wanted for murdering a late payer in Scotland, while picking up money. (by accident)

And who is opposing him? (eddie the ace, benydeltone)

it's alread written, 102 pages. i have to go back and make it read better. take the voice over out, reconstruct the acts and stuff. i finished this two years ago, it was my 2nd script and haven't revisited it since 03. until last week.

no conflict? visually the movie is pretty good, i think.

vig

[SimonSays]

Not having a logline does NOT mean you do not have a central conflict. Not having a logline often means you have not defined your central conflict clearly in your head.

I've read many really great scripts where the writer had written truly lousy loglines. But there was a centeral conflict.

Scripter - I really don't mean you any offense - but some of the feedback you give falls under the "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" You know enough to think you know but not enough to really know. You need to be able to look past the buzzwords and look at what is there. It’s clear from what Vig said that all the elements are there – they just haven’t coalesced into a cohesive sentence for him.

Dugan’s goal is to get out from under – to perform the job he is given so he can be free. Obviously much of the conflict is generated by the fact that the job requires he go after his old friend. If he just throws in a little about the theme being explored – he’ll have a strong logline.

[kojled]

vigorish

lose camera directions. lose ellipses. too much fluff


zilla

[Vigorish9]

and god is my witness i'm not about fluff - and if that's fluff i need to leave it at the door, 'snap'. leave it at the door is what i'll do. i think it makes me thinner, don't you.

are you related to that monster that has been terroizing tokyo, zilla?

vig

[scripter1]

"visually the movie is pretty good, i think."

Yeah but that's not all that matters.
Without clear conflict the audience will always wonder what they really just saw.

Come on Vig, you've read the posts!!!

"Well, it was visually stunning but the story sucked."

Do you really want that directed at your work?

[Vigorish9]

scripter, i think what is happening is i'm more than reasonably sure that i did set up coflict and the fact is i did read what you said, and i read what simon said and i base it on what i know from you and i can say that this evidene 1a. of the defense against your credibilty as a story critic.

we are not argueing here, but to make an analogy, there is a certain amount of density to ice. at so many inches it has so much pressure etc.. can wth stand pressure etc...

your advice is first couple layers we skate on, sure it might hold us, but you never know.

i thank you for your help, some of it does help, but as far as "did i read your post", of course i did, and the answer is, did you read simons post?

vig

[scripter1]

Granted that loglines are hard but Vig should still be able to get a lot closer then what he has.
Very often a weak and nonfunctioning logline indicates a weak and flawed script.

Is he really just supposed to hand someone his script and say "I can't articulate the conflict clearly but trust me it's in there and this script ROCKS!!!"
(feel free to open up another thread about the value and importance of loglines and whether you actually need one to break in.)


:rolleyes

Vig, try this.

In order to gain freedom for himself and his mother a Scottsman guilty of murder must deliver his best friend into the hands of a murderous bookie.

Okay, still sucks horribly BUT it gives us the gist of Vig's story. It gives us the key elements. Dugan wants freedom, he can be blackmailed, he's got to betray his friend, and a corrupt bookie is pulling the strings.

NOW, I had to drag that out of Vig by my questions. In all of his posts he talked about the EVENTS that were happening and never once the tug of war between the protag and the antag. The backbone of his script was never brought up as a clue into what his scenes are about or where they are going.
We got no context for his scenes because he could not state the core of his script.


I can't for the life of me see how anybody who can't make their conflict crystal clear in a post can write an entire script that accomplishes that feat.
He's had two years to work on this.
Simone, if he can't coalesce his core concept into one cohesive sentence how the HELL is he going to juggle 120 pages of them, plus a subplot?
He may very well have it in his head, I just haven't seen much evidence he can get it out of there and onto paper.

He's calling himself a WRITER for pete's sake!!!
A writer is SUPPOSED to take thoughts and send them back out in a manner most people can understand!!
THAT is what WE DO!!!
We use words to convey thoughts and messages in the most efficient/interesting way possible.

Again, it seems that Vig struggles with articulating his core conflicts. We've all got our demons as writers, this is his.
(along with not being able to see what he's written. That's got to stink. Sorry about the eye sight man. )

[Vigorish9]

scripter, i wrote 4 scripts my first two years of writing, this included. then i decided to write 2 good ones with my full concentrated effort. no matter how long it took. it took almost three years.

when i thought i was ready, i'd comback to this script and i did, spurned on by the movie collatoral.

anyway. the logline is what it was two years ago, when the very mention of a loglin made me twitch, it made me anxious.

how could have a logline if i have no clue what i'm doing? i agree, this log is not good, it tells nothing of the story.

but two years ago, i coudn't answer what my story was about, now, it's clear. the story is there.

the reason simon's words resonate with me is by trial and error. the voice over version of this script was written in my infancy stages and as i began to run the story over with the qestions writers ask their story i realized how much i stifled the dramatic qulities of the script because i had no grasp of structure.

the decontruction part has begun -- i'm starting to piece the story together with a much better sense of how to tell the story and i wrote my redone scene in one hour and felt i knew the story pretty good if i could accomplish some of the things that would be of benefit if i washed away the voice over.

and to the primary point of contention, that you still have not weighed in on, is how does the new version lack conflict?

and i agre, i should be able to deliver a good logline, and give me 50 tries i'll come up with one.

vig

[SimonSays]

Scripter - this is why I say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You obviously read something somewhere about the importance of loglines (yes they are very important) but you have interpreted to mean that the inability to write a good one equates to the inability to tell a good story - patently untrue.

Individual writers have their own process. And not all start with the logline. Vig did in fact communicate his core idea and conflict in his story - before you told him he had "events" or whatever word you used but not a story. If you read his posts, he definitely showed both the goal and the central conflict - he didn't go into details to flesh them out, but he made it clear that they were there. You just didn't pay attention. The story and the conflict were very clear - even if the logline wasn't good. A good consultant will LISTEN to what the writer is saying and READ what they write and HELP them distill the essence of their story into a solid logline.

For you to tell someone they are not a writer and make a judgement about a 120 page screenplay because he had a weak logline - even though he did communicate the conflict and goal - is really quite atrocious -especially since you hold yourself out to be a script consultant. If the idea that saving your own ass requires that you go after a friend is not a core conflict - I don't know what is.

Loglines are important - but the script is far more important. Loglines are part of the marketing of the script. Yes he will need a good logline when he starts to market the script - but hell he's still rewriting the script. I know writers - working writers - who actually hire people to write their loglines for them. It's not that Vig doesn't have a story, he just hasn't developed a strong logline for it yet.

I hope that with your paying clients you don't just tell them they don't have a story if can't articulate it clearly in a logline. I hope you withhold judgement on that until you've actually read the script.

[scripter1]

Read it again keeping in mind the newer details you've supplied.

Ok, so some where in the story we will discover how Dugan ended up in the back of the suburban with three dead people.
At this point in the script that doesn't really matter, he's there. (though, you say that Eddie is his friend and saved his life. If so and he never intended to bury him then why doesn't he put his unconscious "friend" in the front or back seat?
Seems pretty harsh to causally dump him in the hatch and then plop two corpses on top of him. Are you going to explain this somehow?)

Which brings me to my main point.
How is it that Dugan doesn't get any blood on him? Blood has a strange tendency to spread itself around.
There are two bodies on top of him and a bloody one next to him, yet Dugan is spotless?
Plus, something must have either really clobbered him or he's been drugged if he hasn't come around or woken up in the whole time it took to load him up, dump the bodies on top of him, drive out to nowhere, dig some pretty deep holes, drag the bodies off him again, and finish digging a third hole. This could become an issue later on in the script.

His eyes pop open? He comes out of that car fully alert?
Has he just been hanging out back there waiting forever for that one perfect moment to pop up and smack his buddy with a shovel?
The dialog in the diner shows him to be the stronger of the two. If he was alert and has the upper hand over Eddie then why sit there under or next to the bodies waiting to see what happens?
Why not act right away?

People with head injuries serious enough to knock them out cold do NOT pop their eyes open.

Pretty convenient that he stays out of it until it's time for him to hit poor Eddie with the shovel.
And how is it that Eddie doesn't see Dugan pick up the shovel? He didn't throw it THAT far.

Then, Dugan hits Eddie with the shovel but in the next scene it is Dugan that is bruised and you make no mention of the effects the blow had on Eddie. (the way it was written it could be construed that Eddie turned and saw the shovel before it hit him.)

Since I didn't see anything about the bruise and fat lip in the first scene I'm left wondering where it came from when Dugan shows up in the dinner.

Just some things my over analytical mind noticed.

[Vigorish9]

listen scriptor, you're doing more to damage your credibility with each post than enhance it, in my opinion.

the script should deliver every answer the audience asks of it as the movie unfolds. to nitpick the visual on how are this and this and this going to be ironed out, is a fools game.

that's not how we watch movies, or critique them. the fact of the matter, if the reader is asking those questions from the start of the script the bigger problem is that the witter has not established any credibility with the reader and that is a different topic.

even in the rudimentary stages of my writing i was able to ask and answer all the logistical questions in a script. any writer worth one nugget of salt can do this.

you're just completely ignoring the fact that you're still a novice and whether you know it or not the things you use as ring words have so many nuances within them; you're not even scratching that surface.

you're still a white belt. okay, okay, here's a real good example i hope: they say chess players have thought ahead ten movies in advance to advance on the first move on the board from any piece, anywhere... and have hundreds of pre calculated moves for every board piece.

the board is a map. your script is a map of tracking how you built whatever tone you set.

the craft of screenwriting is that principle. in your mind scriptor you're simply moving your pawn to the next spot. completely innocuous, but the other guy, he's already beaten you, the moment you moved that pawn. it may take him 15 moves to check mate, but the 'die has been cast'.

you lack the 'die has cast' vision of the craftsmanship behind screenwriting ad in the long run could damage the psyche of a writer, then help him.

in laymen terms, you don't have the skill to critique technique.

though you are worth 45 bucks. i'll give you that.

vig

[scripter1]

"I hope that with your paying clients you don't just tell them they don't have a story if can't articulate it clearly in a logline. I hope you withhold judgement on that until you've actually read the script."

Loglines have absolutely nothing to do with the scripts I work on, not in the capacity that I judge the script on them. I don't even get loglines for the vast majority of them, just the script.
I don't make any judgments or assessments until I've read at least 30 pages into a script and I always read the entire thing.
I usually have a struggling writer try to create a logline in order to bring focus to their ideas.

" -you have interpreted to mean that the inability to write a good one (logline) equates to the inability to tell a good story."

Sadly that is most often the case. Not always but the vast majority of the time.

Read over the posted loglines at any of the sites and you'll see an appalling lack of conflict, clarity or any real story in them. I think you will understand where I get my logline beliefs from and find that a good many share them.
A logline is not always a clear indicator of a weak script but the vast majority of the time it is. The message boards bear this fact out.
The number one problem I see with most scripts and in most of the message board topics and questions is always conflict and goals.
Once you get them working then the rest can fall in line and will sort itself out.

You may have experience in the industry but I have experience with the realities of life down here on this level. I read the newbie pages, loglines, questions, and scripts.
And the best way for a writer to fix their script is to start with the core conflict. The goals of the antag and protag.
The only way to identify that is to write it out -
Viola, a logline. For me, in my line of work, doesn't have to be a marketable one just the Who, what, WHY, and when.
First you have to get the writer to figure out what the protag wants and what the antag wants and get those two butting heads in some way.
Then you can rebuild the script from there.
You can call it what ever you want and work it however you want but you've GOT to have a strong spine or the whole body will collapse.

Vig, I never said the scene lacked conflict.
I brought up conflict as an issue based on your logline and the fact that for several posts you mentioned neither antag nor goals as we tried to work through the scene.
You did, finally, state what the goal was and who the antag was. At least my questions clearly established that.
You and Simon are sure the conflict is in the script. Okay, I'm fine and cool with that.
Maybe my questions will help you solve your logline problem.

Okay, so you're rewriting and reworking and evaluating the script. This thing could go through several more revisions until Vig believes it really is where it should be.
Heck, he could even put the VO back in, change the main character, drop this, add that. The script is young and from a time period when Vig was learning. And we've only gotten the first three pages.
Why are you guys jumping all over my case?
Vig now admits the logline is old and that this is a script in transition. All of my comments are perfectly reasonable for this scripts situation.
Nothing I've said is written in stone. I'm not handing this down as the Almighty GOD of feedback .
I'm just putting forth some thoughts for Vig to consider.
They may help him and they may not.
What Simon said makes sense to Vig and resonates with his script beliefs. Well and fine.
Some scripts NEED VO, others don't.
Some characters reveal themselves more through dialog, others through action, or even INaction.
You consider all the options and try to pick and use the best tools for the job. There is no cut and dried, all right or all wrong, perfect, formulaic way of writing scripts.
I present my opinion and observations and writers are free to take them for whatever they end up being worth.
Sometimes they are what's needed and other times they are not.

[scripter1]

Okay, I've gone back and read over my first response to the questions I asked Vig about the rest of his story.
And he did answer them satisfactorily.

Since at that point I was focusing on the logline portion of his post I should have been more specific about what I was looking for in the way of conflict and it's place in the logline.

So, I'll eat my crow for that one.






Mmmm, needs garlic.


These are the events (plot points, happenings in the story, what ever you wish to call them) that set me to thinking Vig wasn't working around a clear conflict.

"dugan ends up killing someone accidentally as he collects money. his buddy gives him some money and sends him to america to work for a guy until he can get on his feet and send for his mother."

and then this one really set me off.

"Dugan was set to find eddie the ace by an guy calle benny delton. when dugan finds eddie he hands him over to benny and he's free.

but hitch is dugan and eddie were friends. the subplot is that the ORGAN DOCtORS, a couple who relieve people of organs and stuff some how mark dugan -- the ace ends up saving dugan, killing those two, in a crazy scene and the first scene we see is eddie burying these people."

And THIS is supposed to be viewed as CLEAR conflict!!??
Simon, my hat off to you in your ability to translate and read between the lines.

Vig finally made it clear in this post:
"1. What is Dugan's GOAL? - To pay his 'indentured servant' time and fetch his mum from scottland.

2. What is it he MUST do? dugan must find eddie the ace

3. And when must it happen by or before what disastrous thing happens to him? to get out from under BENNY DELTONE the guy who knows that Dugan is wanted for murdering a late payer in Scotland, while picking up money. (by accident)

And who is opposing him? (eddie the ace, benydeltone)"

Okay, NOW, we have some goals, and some conseqeunces.
Based on this I was able to give Vig a sucky but workable logline.

Hey Vig?
Dugan killed the man by accident?
What do you mean? "oh my God I bumped him and he fell 30 stories" or "officer I punched him 10 times and kicked his spleen into mush but he wasn't supposed to die."
And how many men is Benny responsible for killing?
What does Dugan know will happen to Eddie?
Seems Benny and Dugan could go several rounds trying to figure out who really had the most leverage and blackmail against the other and I'd put my money on Dugan winning.
Dugan is a streetwise kid, surely he can think this through and come up with a fairly easy situation.
Blackmail cuts both ways.
Dugan might do a few years but Benny could get life or the electric chair.
I don't know, maybe you've thought of that all ready and that's how Dugan solves his problem.

Again, I'm just reacting to the things you are mentioning in your posts.
I can't really know how the script works and handles all the potential problems until I actually read more.

Will you be posting more pages?

[Vigorish9]

I posted pages 8-15 to give you an idea.

the pages i posted are the reason dugan is sent to america. i think the script answeres the questions you asked.

the scene i posted has a portion of the narrative i keep through the script and is a good place to see if the voice over works or not.

vig

[scripter1]

Funny you mention chess.
I used to play.
When I was 15 I beat my Father who had been a tri-state champion in High School.
And he didn't LET me win either, he wasn't that type of man.

The fact is I AM thinking several steps ahead.
And if at some point and time you are going to make it known that Dugan was in the back with several other bodies, at least one of them bloody, you are going to have to make it believable. I don't know what you've got written but you will have to deal somehow with all the factors involved in murdering and disposing of three bodies; the blood, the driving time, where you hide them, the time it takes to dig the holes, dragging them around, etc.

You brought some things up in your posts, I'm merely raising a red flag to warn you of potential plot holes that could end up big enough for me to drive my F250 extended cab, 8 ft bed, truck through.

It's not a minor thing!
Depending on how you develop this part of the story it could slow down the pacing, interrupt the tension, and create pretty big issues of believability. If this happens near the end when things should be climaxing then it will be a disaster.

The fact of the matter is that I am NOT reading it for production. I read it and your POSTS for feedback purposes because YOU asked for them. I'm LOOKING for flaws so you can fix them BEFORE the script goes to a real reader.
My job is to pick it apart and give you as many choices for improvement as possible.
If something nags at me and I don't mention it then I have failed you as a reviewer.
It's funny how some small thing can become a script's Achilles heel.


Well, this has been quite a lovely discussion but now I really must go. I have a script and a client that needs my attention.
Everybody have a good night.

[JustinoXV]

newyork.craigslist.org/crs/ (http://newyork.craigslist.org/crs/)


and


losangeles.craigslist.org/crs/ (http://losangeles.craigslist.org/crs/)

Scripter1, if I didn't mention these places for you as good places to post, I'll mention them now. Craigslist has use traffic from artists, particularly the New York and Los Angeles Craigslist. There might be people there who need your reviews.

[SimonSays]

Scripter -

A consultant is not a reviewer - perhaps that is your problem as you are approaching it from the wrong place. Or perhaps the problem is that you are so used to dealing with newbies that you focus on the details - and ignore the big picture.

Vig is not a newbie. He is far more advanced in the craft than most of your clients - maybe more advanced than you. Writers at that level need different type of feedback. The fact that Dugan's eyes pop open (which apparently was a problem for you) - will not lead to a pass by an agent or producer. The fact that Vig told everything and showed nothing in the first few pages before - could very well lead to a pass.

And yes Scripter - I did read between the lines - but it did not take much translation skill as it was pretty obvious. Dugan killing someone is obviously the inciting incident. It's what gets him in big trouble and leads him to america. Once in America he's at the mercy of Benny

His goal is to complete his payback to Benny so he can get out of the life and get enough cash to bring his mother over.

In order to get out - he's gotta go after his friend. If you cannot see the inherent conflict in that scenario - there's nothing I can do about it.

The fact that the organ doctors want some of Dugan's body parts for their little trafficking operation - is more than just a minor complication.

It sounds like he's got all the elements in place - though maybe not in shape. Since you cannot even see that they are in place, I don't see how you think you are qualified to help him get it into shape.

Your laundry list of questions is further evidence that you have no concept of what the job of a consultant is. You are going off the deep end making a million assumptions - and snarking at a writer - before you even read more than 4 pages of a 120 page story. Not even the best logline in the entire world - would've touched on answering those questions - a logline is only one or two dozen words.

So you are obviously just doing it because you think you are so smart that without even reading it you are able to see every single problem with Vig's script that were beyond his comprehension. But since you haven't bothered reading it - smart is not the word that comes to mind.