My short film

[DoubleIT]

Here is my 10 minute short film,'10 till'. Check it out at
www.doubleitproductions.com/10till.avi

Right click + save as. For more info check the website, www.doubleitproductions.com (Its very much under construction). Let me know what you think.

[Hamboogul]

Okay, this is bordering on ridiculous now.

You post pages that are clearly ridden with errors and ask for thoughtful feedback (which many have given).

Now you are asking us to free up our hard-drive so we can download your film.

This in addition to asking us to essentially write your resume or give us links that enable us to help you write your entertainment resume.

How about either taking a chill pill and not inundate us with favors or offering help or whatever?

But seriously, asking us to download your film is too much.

[DoubleIT]

What the hell are you talking about? I am offering a piece of work that I did to people who enjoy film. You dont have to download it. You dont have to click the link to the post, or any of my posts. Ignore them all if you want, i dont really care. If 50 megs is too much for your computer maybe you should get off the internet. You have no valid point what so ever. You act as though I am forcing you. Its called free will, pal. Its here if you wish to watch it. Its one post. You are the one being ridiculous. I am really at a loss for words right now.

[Vigorish9]

"I am really at a loss for words right now." double

if we were only that lucky.

vig

[DoubleIT]

Why is everyone so anti-socializing around here? I am starting discussions to get people to talk, hang out. Whats so wrong with that?

[dpaterso]

double, don't worry about it, you're being banged by a couple of notorious shit stirrers who evidently have nothing else to do with their lives. You're quite right, nobody has to download and view your film, you're not holding them at gunpoint, they can choose to watch it or not watch it, the end. Same goes for your script sample, you didn't offer prizes or fees, you invited volunteers to read and give feedback if they have time and if they chose to do so, they don't have grounds for complaint and you haven't disrespected anyone. That's not to say you shouldn't realize that your side of the bargain is to take time to provide readable and entertaining pages, not some whimsical and unchecked first pass off the top of your head that disappoints and pisses off readers. But you've figured this out, yes? I don't see anything wrong with your inviting feedback on your material and/or asking for advice with your resume. What's the purpose of this board if not to allow you and others like you to ask for help?

-Derek
-----------------------My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57)

[Vigorish9]

it has nothing to do with stirring double, don't listent to dp. dpat is a hack at the highest form. a soldier of garbage, his forge made of terrible dialogue and cliched storylines wrapped in a bounty of middle aged ineptness.

vig

[Hamboogul]

dpaterso is a far more giving person (as evidenced by his patience on DD and here) than anyone else on either board.

sadly, i'm a jaded, bitter hack who has a short fuse.

[Vigorish9]

to bad what he offers is a bucket of shitt and no toilet paper. i have no respect for a man who writes crap at such a staggering page count.

he's a vampire, ninja, fable telling joker who couldn't deliver a good piece of dialouge if mamet wrote it for him.

vig

[dpaterso]

No kidding, I could have predicted both your replies almost word for word.

Hamboogul -- realizes he's let his inner demon get out of control for just a second, big whoops, and apologizes.

vig -- aggressively attacks anyone he feels threatened by. Searches for clever insults, can't think of any, gets angrier. Hulk smash!

Consider: if you both used your talent for good instead of evil, the message boards would be a better place. Duller, but better.

-Derek
-----------------------My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies. (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/DPaterson57)

[joecalabre]

What is wrong with you people?

So what if this guy wants us to review his work, whether it be written or filmed? He is looking for comments and those of us who are willing to give some don't particularly need a select few jerks raining on the parade.

The purpose of this forum is clear. To help out anyone with a desire to become better writers and to discuss the craft and our work.

You have the power to ignore the posts you are not interested in (as I do).

I am tired of people insulting each other for no reason.

Stop it.

[Hamboogul]

Well, I can't speak for others but when I write for a long period, I get cranky, especially when I write depressing dramas.

And I also get a shorter fuse when I toss out three months of work because I realize that I am being false to the reader about my characters and thus must start from page one.

So that's my excuse. But I also think that DoubleIT expects a lot from this community and takes constructive criticism lightly.

[Vigorish9]

"vig -- aggressively attacks anyone he feels threatened by' dp

you are absolutely clueless. you couldn't threaten a toddler. why don't you let the truth liberate you. instead of giving advice, take it.


vig

[Vigorish9]

"What the hell are you talking about? I am offering a piece of work that I did to people who enjoy film. You dont have to download it. You dont have to click the link to the post, or any of my posts. Ignore them all if you want, i dont really care. " double

no one sees a problem here?

vig

[Vigorish9]

you tossed out your script cause what hammmmmmyyyyy?

vig

[Hamboogul]

Well, as I mentioned before... I was not being faithful to the characters and their journeys. Secondly and equally importantly, I knew I was capable of better. And I didnt' want to lower my standards.

So I threw the entire thing away and started over. But I do that often. No biggie. End product matters.

[Vigorish9]

i guess i've never called it being true to my characters. i'm a mad rewriter. so, i've done page 1 rewrites.

vig

[DoubleIT]

Im not sure whos being serious anymore or not. But yes, I do now understand when to post a script. But this short i spent almost two months working on, i didnt throw it together in one night.

[Uday Hussein]

What foul stench offends my proboscis? Ah, yes, tis Vigorish9 and Hamboogul - they should've been blow jobs.

Dp, salute!

[DoubleIT]

Reason number 200 why this forum needs mods.

[Uday Hussein]

Compared to Daddy, I'm as moderate as they come.

[joecalabre]

Uday,
I beg of you to please change your user name. I know you're joking, but I do find it somewhat offensive that you chose this persona and even make refrences to being him.

Besides, why pretend to be somebody else when you are obviously an interesting person on your own accord.

This forum is no place to use sensitive political issues.

[Vigorish9]

if you only new the can of worms you opened. uday is from a place beyond your comprehension joe. evil lurks within.

vig

[joecalabre]

Cans of worms are meant to be opened if you plan of going fishing.

[scripter1]

I'm going to jump in here and let the meanderings of this thread take on a new direction.

DoubleIT, I didn't download your film and I didn't see a link for the script.

If you are getting lots of negative feedback on the script and being told you've got errors, then perhaps you could benefit from my services?
I run an editing and feedback service.
www.lowcostscriptediting.com
(yeah guys I am STILL around.)
I do very detailed, often line by line, page by page analysis.
My fee is one of the lowest on the web because I am NOT a pro, just someone who has a knack for clearly identifying and explaining story problems.
You can e-mail me at annalexs@juno.com if you have any questions.

[Uday Hussein]

Annie: where is this knack you speak of?

I read this sample on your site and it seems the only knack you've got is for convincing people to pay money for old rope. These notes have no practical value to a working writer revising a script. None at all.

SAMPLE COVERAGE
This is the SAMPLE COVERAGE:


"Field Trip" Coverage.

CONCEPT: The concept's great. Kids drugged into doing a major company's dirty work. The whole twist thing there, that was good. Well set up.

CHARACTERS: Pretty good here. They are interesting, I think people will get them. But they are a little flat,and all the same age. Try giving them all some type of different speech patterns. If we could only HEAR the movie, could we tell them apart? How do eco-terroist teens talk in the future? What views do each have that is unique to that one character? What cool slang would they use?

DIALOG: Mostly all right. Towards the end you started using dialog to explain things. Dialog must always complement the visual, it comes secondary. Take a hard look at your script. What do you have people saying that can be SHOWN? The main problem you have is people talking too much, being too wordy. Shorten up some of the lines, take out extra words. Make the dialog short and sweet.

WRITING: The only problem I really saw was using too many words. I crossed out all the ones I thought needed to go. As you read through the edits I think you'll catch on to what I mean and figure out how to fix it.

STORY LINE/EXECUTION: I was into the story until the murders happened and nobody reacted believably. At that point your whole story just collapsed. Things become contrived and everyone in the story did exactly what needed to happen to get you to fade out. The tension and drama was gone. Every time you started to build up the tension your characters would stop several paces short of REAL action and wimp out. Hold out the tension. Create situations where things are good for one person, and then switch them, and keep going, building action, building excitement, until the final startling resolution at the end of the scene. Every action scene should follow that pattern. Susan getting blown up, Karen, Keith, Janie and Blair. Plus, I would switch Janie and Blair's order of demise. Janie is the chief bad guy. Her death needs to be the most horrific, most intense action scene.

SCRIPT FORMAT: Not much to correct there. Your page count is way off though. You've got to take out almost all the beats, all the continues (like I showed you) and you need to rewrite the whole POV scene at the end. You've got two, three pages there where you're double spacing and slug lining. It all needs to be rewritten so that it is more active. That is where I wrote out some things for you in blue. Instead of switching POV and writing bland action, pick one character's point of view and describe what that person sees happening. Spec scripts can be anywhere from 90 to 120 pages. 108 seems to be a nice middle ground. You're well within the industry standard so you've got plenty of room both ways. Tighten up some things, use your regained line space to pump up the action and tension, and you should stay about the same on the page count, give or take a few pages.

WHAT YOU DID RIGHT: Starting the script with action. Having them blow things up, taking over the base. That grabs our attention, makes us wonder what is going on. The back tracking worked. You had some good set ups, and the twist at the end, THAT was great.

Fix the pat actions and increase the tension and I think you'll have something.

Thank you, good luck, and Happy Writing.

Ann Smith
Low Cost Script Editing

[scripter1]

Uday,

This writer was NOT a working writer. They were a beginner writer looking to improve their script and overcome some basic mistakes.

I'm actually glad you posted that coverage.
Perhaps it may give other writers a few things to consider.

[Vigorish9]

i think it shows how woefully underqualifed you are scripter.

vig

[William Haskins]

hilarious that she responded to the post so matter-of-factly:

"uday,"

lol.

[scripter1]

Ah yes, FINALLY the much anticipated and expected scripter bashing posts.
Gee, I had to wait a whole day.
You guys are losing your touch.

[Vigorish9]

scripter, the point you're not getting, is your barely past a newbie stage, and charging people money, even the nominal sum of 40 dollars under even the slightest pretense that you are experienced is part of the reason you catch so much grief.

vig

[Uday Hussein]

What does one do when they find themselves agreeing with Vig?

Is there a pamphlet one should read?

[SimonSays]

No offense scripter - but this is definitely a situation of getting what you pay for.

Your analysis is extremely superficial. Newbies especially need insight into things like character development etc. There is far more to that than speech patterns - in fact character growth is about actions - not dialogue.

There are any number of script consultants out there who have mastered the craft and have a true understanding of structure and character. Yes they do charge considerably more (no pro is going to charge what essentially come out to 10-15 an hour) but they bring much more to the table. The best ones will also provide insight into whether or not your script has potential in the marketplace.

If you want professional feedback then save your money and do it right.

[scripter1]

Simon,

I will respond to your post since it is cordial and I have some respect for you thus far.

The coverage that Uday posted was a summary of far more extensive notes. When I "cover" a script I go through it line by line, paragraph by paragraph, page by page.
Some times a page will have notes every three or four words.
Notes that are several sentences long with in-depth explanations about what is wrong (grammatically or with story elements) and suggestions for improvement.
Rarely will I rewrite scenes but occasionally I find it helpful to give the writer some idea of what could be done instead.

I mark the entire script as I go along instead of reading it straight through and then writing up my overall impression from memory. The notes are right there on the script.
So when I say "You've lost the tension, pacing, conflict, character, theme, (insert script problem).." then they know EXACTLY where. They don't have to go hunting through the script to find out exactly how, where, and why it happened.
They get the info step by step, in order, and in the moment.

Often a script will start out pretty decent and then at page three or five, or ten take a bad turn. My format allows me to tell the writer precisely where the problems occur.

Unfortunately it is also way too detailed to post online. Also I do not feel it is appropriate to post my clients pages. One has allowed me to do so and several paragraphs are available on my site.

I am very straight forward about my experience (or lack there of) and ask only a fee to cover my time. People read my posts and agree with my suggestions, and they appreciate the friendly manner in which I treat them.
Especially when they get people like Vig ripping into them.
I won't coddle anyone but I am polite and considerate.

I tell people that there are free sites available for feedback and also that sometimes other posters will read scripts in exchange for a read of their script or for free.
Often the writers will try that, not be satisfied, and then hire me.

I even offer to read several pages for free and if they aren't satisfied then no harm done and no commitment.
I've been challenged on the boards and "won."
No one has ever told me my advice was flat wrong or incorrect according to current script standards.

I work primarily with beginner writers but have read scripts for several working writers who had films going independent.
I deal with all the things you mentioned and edit as well.
I also include articles from pros (YES, I DO have permission) which address each scripts specific problem.
Most writers will get at least four or five covering everything from structure, to theme, to action, dialog, concept, conflict, etc.

In this particular script the characters DID have actions which revealed character but they all SOUNDED the same. The jock spoke the exact same way the science geek did, and the slutty cheerleader sounded the same as GI Jane.
Speech patterns DO matter, quite a bit, and sometimes the right dialog or word choices can make or break a scene.

Actually my clients get quite a bit more then they pay for.
And I'm more then willing to put up or................



well, not shut up because I know I can help people.

So if anyone would like to see what I am capable of my e-mail addy is annalexs@juno.com.
It takes me about a week to fully cover a script.
(sorry, the addy on my site refuses to work.)

[Spartakiss]

Hey Double...I've been trying to watch your film for ages and am still unable...it says that "This file cannot be played"..It proceeds to ask whether I would like to search for an available update. Consequently, that fails too.

Despite the somewhat "angry" words that seem to be flying, I'd love to see it!

Any chance?

Cheers,

~Sparta~

[DoubleIT]

Spartakiss - Do you have Divx on your computer? If not head over to www.divx.com and download that software, which will give you the nessisary codec to play the file. Let me know how that works out.

[Fartin Mowler]

Well, I just finished watching the movie... I really like movies alot so this was really tough for me to review.

Script was simple and fun
Camera work was good and easy on the eyes
Sound the actors all sounded monotone and needed a few drinks to relax or some acting lessons.
I hated the music (personal preference) rap bad :x

Honestly it held my attention once I got passed the stupid credits that I fast forwarded through :lol The actor Jordon was ok. there was one spot at the bar where he actually looked relaxed. I think that if your lucky to have friends that are willing to do it again and you write some better stuff I would go for it. :D

[Spartakiss]

-Mowl, you are a harsh little man! Oi vey!! <cringes only slightly>

Thanks Double..I shall give this another try and update when I watch it!

Cheers!

[Fartin Mowler]

I wasn't harsh at all :rolleyes