PHANTOMS

[nganok]

I may have asked this before but how do you guys treat PHANTOM characters. I did it something like this just now but it feels so unnatural and confusing to the reader:


EXT. JOSEPH'S STUDIO APARTMENT -- MOMENTS LATER

Someone in a car across the street from Joseph's apartment watches Veronica hurriedly walk down the apartment stairs. This person sees her fumble with her keys as she tries to get into her car. They watch her drive off then refocus on watching Joseph's apartment.

DO I need a script note with these somewhere. IF so do I need it everytime I use it in the script.

[dpaterso]

If you're not showing the Phantom methinks POV might be best, e.g. and just for fun's sake:

EXT. JOSEPH'S STUDIO APARTMENT -- MOMENTS LATER

POV - WATCHING FROM A CAR ACROSS THE STREET

Veronica skips down the apartment stairs. She fumbles with her car keys, finally gets her car door unlocked. She climbs in, starts the engine, turns on the lights, drives off.

POV's attention returns to Joseph's apartment windows.

...obviously an "each to their own" thing, that's just one suggestion.

-Derek

[Celia Cyanide]

Just curious, is that okay to indicate what the camera is doing? I always thought you weren't supposed to do that.

[icerose]

I give them an assigned personna even if I don't give a name. Whether it's THE KILLER or SHADOW MAN or something I give them a title so that if they speak or whatever it's a lot clearer than someone or a man because that could easily get mixed up with another faceless character and the reader knows it's bad news to have that person around so they can get the right feel.

[dpaterso]

I don't see POV as a camera direction -- it lets you hint that a character is there without giving any clues re the character's identity. And if there's more than one unknown faceless character? That's not necessarily a bad thing for suspense levels. Is it the serial killer stalking the protag... or his jealous ex-wife... or the nightclub singer who followed him home... or the protag's mother with leftover lasagne, worried that her little boy is eating okay? A curious audience is an interested audience, in theory. :)

-Derek

[wordmonkey]

For a newbie I think assigning a character name would be best. Even if that is an alter-ego type name. The POV from across the street is the easiest way, BUT you risk appearing to direct from the page, which can be a red flag for rejection in newbies.

Write the scene and add a line at the end that all of this has been watched by JOHNNY MANIAC sitting in his car across the street as he drools in anticipation. (OK, that's a bad sentence, but you get the idea - there are other ways to do it, but the simpler you do it, with as little reference to camera angles and positions, the better.)

Of course, if this is a script you've been commissioned to write and you know it will get made, you have more latitude. Then you are working on more of a shooting script (or going in that direction) so you have more freedom to write that way as long as the director/producer are cool with that.

[scripter1]

Do we, the audience SEE the phantom? Is the phantom on screen?

If so then I would give them a name and write it from that perspective.

If we DON'T see the phantom character then write it from the camera's perspective which would mean using POV.

[icerose]

Do we, the audience SEE the phantom? Is the phantom on screen?

If so then I would give them a name and write it from that perspective.

If we DON'T see the phantom character then write it from the camera's perspective which would mean using POV.

I agree with this one.

[Goodwriterguy]

I may have asked this before but how do you guys treat PHANTOM characters. I did it something like this just now but it feels so unnatural and confusing to the reader:


EXT. JOSEPH'S STUDIO APARTMENT -- MOMENTS LATER

Someone in a car across the street from Joseph's apartment watches Veronica hurriedly walk down the apartment stairs. This person sees her fumble with her keys as she tries to get into her car. They watch her drive off then refocus on watching Joseph's apartment.

DO I need a script note with these somewhere. IF so do I need it everytime I use it in the script.
To my eye, the only problem with this description is the repetitive nature of "this person sees" and "They watch ..." You've already said the someone in the car "watches Veronica ..." and I think that would be enough.

EXT JOSEPH'S APARTMENT (MOMENTS LATER)

From the vantage of a car parked across the street, a DARK FIGURE watches Veronica as she hurries down the stairs, gets to her car, fumbles with her keys and finally gets in and drives off.

Dark Figure resumes watching Joseph's apartment.

I think caption qualifiers like "moments later" are best expresed parenthetically.

"Dark Figure" is just a bit more intrigueing than "someone." And note how in the last paragraph it's treated as a name and thus could be used as a cue if this character has dialogue later and has not been revealed to be Vernonica's ex-husband JOE CARTRIGHT, or some hit man or something.

This description conveys what's going on and gives the director wide latitude as to how he or she might shoot the scene.

No script note required.

Calling for a POV without first establising the setup could be confusing to an audience. Is the POV really a POV or is it just the angle the director chose? We almost always see a character looking or "seeing" before we call for a POV to show what they are seeing.

Cheers! :D

[Lucizzz]

If the scene is from the POV of the watcher, then it should be

INT. PARKED CAR
A DARK FIGURE hunches in his seat as he spies on Veronica leaving Joseph's apartment.

the EXT. JOSEPH'S APARTMENT would otherwise indicate that we're outside of the car. This creates a different visual image - close up or far away from the watcher.

[Goodwriterguy]

If the scene is from the POV of the watcher, then it should be

INT. PARKED CAR
A DARK FIGURE hunches in his seat as he spies on Veronica leaving Joseph's apartment.

the EXT. JOSEPH'S APARTMENT would otherwise indicate that we're outside of the car. This creates a different visual image - close up or far away from the watcher.
But it doesn't mean your director wouldn't figure this out and perhaps shoot the scene by moving the camera around the car (to establish DARK FIGURE therein) and then bring the apartment into the frame, so that WE now see what Dark Figure is looking at. Veronica comes out, makes her way down the stairs to her car, fumbles with her keys, gets in, and drives off.

It could be framed so that WE see both Dark Figure and Veronica.

Or, one could call for a POV, but I'd think only after establishing Dark Figure as watching. This would require three slugs as opposed to one and consume more page space and in my view wouldn't be worth doing. Let the director decide how he or she wants to shoot it. If you can convey what's to be seen on the screen with one slug, why use three? Especially in a spec, which is a reading script not a shooting script.

The KISS principle works here. :D

[dpaterso]

"Dark Figure" and its shadowy variants sounds too hammy.

Do it via POV (see msg #2) and the reader/audience doesn't even know if whoever's watching is male or female. Purposeful withholding of information to heighten suspense. Fits neatly into the writer's toolbox.

Depends on the genre/style of course. Works best for Noir, cop movies, serial killer/stalker movies, Murder She Wrote, etc.

-Derek

[Lucizzz]

If you can convey what's to be seen on the screen with one slug, why use three? :D

I don't believe my example would have required three slugs. It was an alternative to POV (which I think is best avoided in a spec if possible).

[nganok]

"Dark Figure" and its shadowy variants sounds too hammy.

Do it via POV (see msg #2) and the reader/audience doesn't even know if whoever's watching is male or female. Purposeful withholding of information to heighten suspense. Fits neatly into the writer's toolbox.

Depends on the genre/style of course. Works best for Noir, cop movies, serial killer/stalker movies, Murder She Wrote, etc.

-Derek

Many of you had good suggestions but I am almost as confused as I was when I started. I dont want the audience to know anything about the Phantom in the car so I think the above example may work best but, Derek I have my reservations about using camera directions in the spec. This is a Murder mystery so I cant allow the audience to guess anything about this character.

[dpaterso]

Once again we tremble in terror of violating senseless rules imposed by crackpot dictators that just get in the way of writing the scene in simple, easy to understand terms!

Kidding! Maybe. :)

I understand your reluctance, even tho' I don't see this as directing the camera in the newbie sense. If you have to use a label then use a label. AN UNSEEN FIGURE watches Veronica from a car across the street. Or whatever you like best.

-Derek

[Goodwriterguy]

Many of you had good suggestions but I am almost as confused as I was when I started. I dont want the audience to know anything about the Phantom in the car so I think the above example may work best but, Derek I have my reservations about using camera directions in the spec. This is a Murder mystery so I cant allow the audience to guess anything about this character.
A POV is not considered "camera direction" and I don't think there's a blessed thing wrong with declaring one when needed to get your movie across. POVs are as common as apple pie in movies and any spec that declares a few isn't going to raise eyebrows, assuming they are used appropriately and where needed.

I don't think I've ever written a spec that didn't have a few or the odd POV in it.

But let's go back to this:

EXT JOSEPH'S APARTMENT (MOMENTS LATER)

From the vantage of a car parked across the street, a DARK FIGURE watches Veronica as she hurries down the stairs, gets to her car, fumbles with her keys and finally gets in and drives off.

Dark Figure resumes watching Joseph's apartment.

No POV and a description that tells us what's going on. Remember, what we see on the screen is no more and no less than what we write/describe, so here the narrative describes,

1. a car parked across the street from the apartment;
2. a figure therein who watches Veronica come out and leave.
3. the figure resumig his or her watch on the apartment.

This is what WE will see, no more and no less, but exactly what the angle will be is left up to the director, and rightly so methinks.

A director may elect to use a POV or they may not, depending on how satisfied they are about getting what needs to be gotten, i.e., the idea that the phantom character is watching Veronica. But, if they do elect to use a POV my bet would be they'd first establish the physical setup in their master so that when the cut is made to the POV the audience can know it is indeed what the phantom figure is seeing.

Then they'd have to cut back to the master footage to convey the notion that the phantom figure has resumed watching the apartment.

If you write it this way, that's three slugs (master-POV-master), no matter how you slice it.

And again, if you were to start the scene in a POV, you're gonna have to come back to a shot in which we see both the phantom in the car and the apartment, so the audience can learn what the POV was all about and who was seeing what it showed.

Your concern about the audience not being able to guess anything about the phantom character would most likely be perceived by your director too. They afterall have read the entire script more than once by the time they're shooting this scene and would undoubtedly have become aware of this issue ... and would shoot it accordingly. The mere fact that you've described your phantom figure as DARK FIGURE provides a huge hint that you don't want your audience to get much from the character, other than they are there. DARK FIGURE means no gender, no age, no nuttin' except that someone is there.

Derek thinks "DARK FIGURE" is too "hammy," whatever that means, whereas I think it suits the situation rather well, with the word "dark" conveying a lack of precision in perception and an edge of mystery.

Write on! :D

[winter]

But I don't understand why you don't want anyone to know anything about them. That's not mystery, that's just confusion. Mystery relies on a certain amount of suggestion. I mean, what's he doing? Sipping coffeee? Looking psychotic? Holding a knife? Seeming to like the way she looks?

Otherwise it's not propelling the story, it's just cluttering it up, causing frustration, rather than intrigue.

[scripter1]

makes a very good point.

What is the context of the watching character and are THEY DOING anything other then just standing that makes us more tense?

Camera directions are things like CLOSE UP, PAN AROUND, MOVE IN TOWARDS, CAMERA SWOOPS OVER WOODS, DOLLY IN, etc.

[Goodwriterguy]

But I don't understand why you don't want anyone to know anything about them. That's not mystery, that's just confusion. Mystery relies on a certain amount of suggestion. I mean, what's he doing? Sipping coffeee? Looking psychotic? Holding a knife? Seeming to like the way she looks?

Otherwise it's not propelling the story, it's just cluttering it up, causing frustration, rather than intrigue.
Well, perhaps the fact that someone is watching Veronica is all the story propelling he thinks he needs from this scene.

It probably does takes things up a notch.

Seems to me that revealing a serreptitious watcher at work provides some intrigue. Who is it? Why are they watching? What will they do next?

[nganok]

But I don't understand why you don't want anyone to know anything about them. That's not mystery, that's just confusion. Mystery relies on a certain amount of suggestion. I mean, what's he doing? Sipping coffeee? Looking psychotic? Holding a knife? Seeming to like the way she looks?

Otherwise it's not propelling the story, it's just cluttering it up, causing frustration, rather than intrigue.


THe story is a murder mystery, our audience is being lured, almost forced, to think that my phantom is the killer. I have their minds totally biased into thinking so. letting on anything about this person will only confuse matters. At this early point in the story (beg Act II) I want the audience guessing. I want Sarah Anne poking Billy Bob in the theater seat next to her and telling him "I think its the maid".

[nganok]

Well, perhaps the fact that someone is watching Veronica is all the story propelling he thinks he needs from this scene.

It probably does takes things up a notch.

Seems to me that revealing a serreptitious watcher at work provides some intrigue. Who is it? Why are they watching? What will they do next?


What I've done this early in the film is planted the seed that my protag is simply being watched. Im not giving the audience the answers but simply showing them the path I want them to see. Quite simply Ive eliminated two people for the audience to suspect as the Killer with one simple PHANTOM type scene. This will done similarly to eliminate others down the road.

[Goodwriterguy]

What I've done this early in the film is planted the seed that my protag is simply being watched. Im not giving the audience the answers but simply showing them the path I want them to see. Quite simply Ive eliminated two people for the audience to suspect as the Killer with one simple PHANTOM type scene. This will done similarly to eliminate others down the road.
Ah hah!

There can be two conditions here and I don't know which applies: 1) this is the first time we see this "phantom" character, or 2) we have met them earlier.

If we have met them earlier then you have reason to degrade the audience's ability to see them clearly (and hence know who they are); if we have not met them but will meet them in character later, you still have reason to keep the audience from seeing them clearly.

Thus it seems your original description works. The question became one of how to write it. My idea was to keep it simple by just writing what we see, some unrecognizeable character watching a character we know, Veronica, and, when she leaves, continuing to watch the apartment.

We can assume that at some point later the identity of the "someone" will be revealed, correct? But that's an aside to the question here.

Your description tells a director, "I want the audience to see this somebody in a car across the street watching Veronica as she leaves, and resuming his watch on the apartment when she leaves."

We edited your description to rid it of its repetitive elements and got it down to a nice compact and succinct description of what's happening.

Have some faith in a director figuring this out and doing it well. They get paid the big buckeroos to do exactly this. He or she may use a POV or they may not, depending on their own sensibilities and style. But whichever they do you can be pretty assured it will work, and by that I mean it will be something that satisfies the quoted and italicized line in the second paragraph above.

Write on! :D

[nganok]

Ah hah!

There can be two conditions here and I don't know which applies: 1) this is the first time we see this "phantom" character, or 2) we have met them earlier.

If we have met them earlier then you have reason to degrade the audience's ability to see them clearly (and hence know who they are); if we have not met them but will meet them in character later, you still have reason to keep the audience from seeing them clearly.

Thus it seems your original description works. The question became one of how to write it. My idea was to keep it simple by just writing what we see, some unrecognizeable character watching a character we know, Veronica, and, when she leaves, continuing to watch the apartment.

We can assume that at some point later the identity of the "someone" will be revealed, correct? But that's an aside to the question here.

Your description tells a director, "I want the audience to see this somebody in a car across the street watching Veronica as she leaves, and resuming his watch on the apartment when she leaves."

We edited your description to rid it of its repetitive elements and got it down to a nice compact and succinct description of what's happening.

Have some faith in a director figuring this out and doing it well. They get paid the big buckeroos to do exactly this. He or she may use a POV or they may not, depending on their own sensibilities and style. But whichever they do you can be pretty assured it will work, and by that I mean it will be something that satisfies the quoted and italicized line in the second paragraph above.

Write on! :D

Thanx -I was beginning to think I was crazy and nobody understood. Your right we will definitely meet the Phantom Character. In fact its the last thing that happens in the film.

[jonpiper]

But let's go back to this:

EXT JOSEPH'S APARTMENT (MOMENTS LATER)

From the vantage of a car parked across the street, a DARK FIGURE watches Veronica as she hurries down the stairs, gets to her car, fumbles with her keys and finally gets in and drives off.

Dark Figure resumes watching Joseph's apartment.

No POV and a description that tells us what's going on. Remember, what we see on the screen is no more and no less than what we write/describe, so here the narrative describes,

1. a car parked across the street from the apartment;
2. a figure therein who watches Veronica come out and leave.
3. the figure resumig his or her watch on the apartment.

This is what WE will see, no more and no less, but exactly what the angle will be is left up to the director, and rightly so methinks.


As you've explained in your complete post, narrative/description seems to be the best way to solve the problem.

Just to eliminate any suggestion of telling the director how to shoot the scene, would the following be better? Do we need to show where the car is parked? Also, after Veronica drives off, all we can show is the Dark Figure watching the apartment, not that it continues watching the apartment.

EXT JOSEPH'S APARTMENT (MOMENTS LATER)

A DARK FIGURE in a parked car watches Veronica as she hurries down the stairs, gets to her car, fumbles with her keys and finally gets in and drives off.

The Dark Figure watches Joseph's apartment.

[jonpiper]

On second thought, "the Dark Figure continues watching Joseph's apartment," reads better, I think.

[Goodwriterguy]

On second thought, "the Dark Figure continues watching Joseph's apartment," reads better, I think.
Continues or resumes, whichever but the idea is to convey the notion that Dark Figure was watching before Veronica came out and intends to keep watching after she leaves.

I'd place the car, what the heck it's only three words ("across the street") and obviates a reader having to stop and think for a beat, just where is this car? And/or, why didn't the writer tell us?