Melting plot

[Willowmound]

I haven't written in three days. This is the third day.

It's 37 degrees Celsius outside (that's about 8000 Farenheit, if I'm not mistaken), and I've hit a bump in the plot.

This is the bump:

Much-much later in the MS, my MCs will be confronted with four riddles. Throughout the action leading up to this point, I will plant enough information for the savvy reader to solve the riddles himself.

Thing is, I haven't made up the riddles yet. And now's the time to start inserting clues.

This riddle-making business is hard. Especially because I would like the riddles to Not Suck. Since I write historical fiction, I can't just pull stuff out of my arse either. (Did that offend enyone?) The basis for the riddles will be elemets from relevant mythology and legend. And I want to make those elements integral parts of the story, not add-ons.

So, "just write it, and go back later and insert the clues," doesn't quite work for me.

Or maybe I'm simply not funtioning properly due to it being 8000 degrees Farenheit outside.

Any thoughts? Advice? Instructions for making a Big Fan?

Anything at all?

Thanks :Sun:

[ChaosTitan]

So, "just write it, and go back later and insert the clues," doesn't quite work for me.


That would have been my advice.

Since that doesn't work for you, I say sit down and work out your riddles. Once you have them, writing should be smooth sailing.

[Willowmound]

That would have been my advice.

Since that doesn't work for you, I say sit down and work out your riddles. Once you have them, writing should be smooth sailing.

And here I was hoping for some quick-fix magic remedy. Why can I never find one of those?

[Shadow_Ferret]

You have my permission to put in a sucky riddle now and then go back later and write a world-class most excellent riddle.

Now go. Write.

[AnnieColleen]

Cold showers and iced drinks?

I'll trade you. We had around 5 Celsius this afternoon (yes, I had to look that up :tongue) and it's colder now.

I'd say start making a list of several times more riddles than you need and pick the best out of the crowd.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

To build a really big fan, you need to get some sheet metal, an electric motor, and...

Oh. You were joking. Okay.


Seriously, have you thought about researching the kind of riddles that are found in some mythologies? I believe there is a riddle to the Sphinx, which is quite intriguing to try to figure out if you don't have the answer ready. Also, I read a short story that I understand to have been taken from the Middle Ages, about three men and a 'Devil-Dragon'. In that story, the 'Devil-Dragon' gave an almost impossible riddle to solve. Maybe if you researched stuff like this--I'm sure you can find other examples of ancient riddles on the 'Net--they might give you an idea for the four riddles you are wanting to write.

It's a thought. I hope it helps you out. Good luck to you.

[JeanneTGC]

I'm with Annie. I use riddles and rhymes and spells in several of my stories -- it's better to take a break and go think up some riddles and rhymes and just write THOSE for a while. Then you get a backlog and have plenty to choose from when you need them.

Also, what time period in history? Some of us might be able to offer suggestions if we knew roughly what timeframe you're writing in.

[Oliveman]

Riddles. I recommend the end of the third book of Stephen King's Dark Tower series and, more importantly, the beginning of his forth book. There is some good inspiration in there.

Other than that, I suggest that you simply do something devious to get in touch with your frustratingly brilliant side, and write with all the subtle trip-ups on a reader's way to an answer in mind. A riddle is an adventure itself, and remember to think through all the thought processes that one could take in that journey to get to the answer. Map out what elements you want involved along the way, then create your riddle with these elements in mind. You know you've done well if, after you finish the riddle, you dance around in glee at the thought of other people having to actually face this riddle under a life and death circumstance.

Good luck!

[Doctor Shifty]

Riddles are a standard element of the hero mythologem. It will depend on the provenance of your story what precise form they take. And it is important to remember that they are not humurous or tricky, they are revealing of deeper truth concerning the life of the hero.

The hero riddle is based on a challenge to the hero's identity, a challenge to the nature of his authority, a challenge to how ready the hero accepts the consequences of his chosen path towards his goal, and a challenge to his ability to live on his own strength rather than on the strength of his progenitor.

The protagonist does not issue the riddle to test the hero's intelligence as much as his intuition. The protagonist him/herself has authority to pose the riddle and the power to give consequences for failure to answer. In essence, the hero answers the riddle to rise above the level of power/authority of the protagonist. However, the protagonist is rarely a key character in the story, more of a gatekeeper that the hero encounters.

Anyway, there are a few thoughts that might lay out the playing field for you. If, on the other hand, I've only muddied the waters for you, well, them's the breaks. :)

Have fun, but don't be funny.

[PeeDee]

Reading J.R.R. Tolkien's riddles in the Hobbit, though, will just make you feel inadequate. It shatters any chance of me ever using riddles, anyway.

[victoriastrauss]

ISo, "just write it, and go back later and insert the clues," doesn't quite work for me.Doesn't work for me either. Some people can bulldoze through and come up with the details later, but others don't work that way, and if your instincts are telling you that you need the riddles now, then you should put the writing on pause for the moment while you work them out. It may seem like a drag now, but you'll be glad you did it later on.

- Victoria

[Simon Woodhouse]

If I were you, I'd probably have created the riddles before I started writing the book, but that advice doesn't help you much now. I think it would be best to stop writing, and really take your time to create the riddles. If you have to plant the information that'll help the reader solve the riddles all the way through the book, going back and doing this after the book is finished is going to be harder than ever. I'm always wary of inserting specific details at a later date, because they have a ripple effect on everything around them, and it's easy to miss something.

[ChaosTitan]

And here I was hoping for some quick-fix magic remedy. Why can I never find one of those?

Have you tried eBay? ;)

[J.S Greer]

If I were you, I'd probably have created the riddles before I started writing the book, but that advice doesn't help you much now. I think it would be best to stop writing, and really take your time to create the riddles. If you have to plant the information that'll help the reader solve the riddles all the way through the book, going back and doing this after the book is finished is going to be harder than ever. I'm always wary of inserting specific details at a later date, because they have a ripple effect on everything around them, and it's easy to miss something.

Id create the basic riddles too. You have to know where youre going, to have any chance of getting there.

[Willowmound]

I did it. It took me three days doing little else, but I did it.

Thanks everyone for your support.

Don't worry, Shifty, I had no intention of being funny. I said riddles, but I didn't mean riddles in the usual sense. There are no questions.

It's a Dark Age device: a number of cryptic statements. Each statement consists of elements taken from relevant mythology/legend/whatever a knowledgable person should know about. That each line is in fact a riddle, takes some figuring out in itself.

But then it gets easier, because the answer to riddle number one can be found within riddle number two; the answer to riddle two can be found within riddle three etc. I say easier -- easier to solve, maybe, but quite a pain to make.

The last riddle does of course not have a spelled out answer. And here's where one can get really clever, and make perhaps the whole 'poem' (i.e. all the statements together) be the answer. Or some such thing. This last riddle with its cleverness (and the misunderstanding it will lead to) was all I had originally -- it's sort of a pivot point for the story.

...Oh, and I needed to make the hidden-riddle statements function as an invocation as well, sort of a protection formula.

Rather quite complicated, all in all.

Thanks everyone, once again. Bouncing ideas here can be a good thing :)

[PeeDee]

This is why I'm not a super duper hero.

RIDDLE: What's black and white and red all over?

PETE: I give up. I'm done. I quit.

[Willowmound]

I suck at riddles too.

When I said in my OP, "I will plant enough information for the savvy reader to solve the riddles himself", I meant 'savvy readers unlike myself'.

I never read crime novels, because I never have a clue as to what's going on.

[Inkdaub]

I agree with those saying that it's time to sit down and write some riddles.