The common first time mistakes...

[zorasaura]

Ok, what are all the common mistakes people make the first time around?

Here are some that I can think of

1) Head hopping
2) too much exposition about setting
3) sloppy dialogue tags
4) too many characters
5) too memoir like

what else?

What are reasons that first manuscripts commonly dont work?

[PeeDee]

First time manuscripts? Well, it could be any number of things.

It could be that the prose is too rich and flowery, because the author remembers everything that s/he learned in school and is being careful neither to use the same word twice, nor to use plain words when they can rape a thesaurus instead. One of the biggest breakthroughs with any writer learning how to write is the point when they suddenly just shut up and tell the story.

It could be that the story is bigger than them. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try to write it. Of course they should try. It's just that the story is such a big thing sitting on shoulders that haven't built up any muscle yet, and you can hear it creaking as you read it. They should write it anyway, damn it.

...

Are we talking first thing ever written here? Or first novel completed? Or what?

For me, the thing which was probably wrong with the first thing I ever wrote was that I was aged 5 or 6. I had a little ways to go before. Hell, I hadn't even grasped the concept of using paragraphs yet. My first story is written in neat pencil on twelve sheets of college-ruled paper, front and back. It's all one block of text, dialogue and everything.

What was wrong with my first novel that I completed was that I was a comfortable and relatively decent short story writer who hadn't developed the shoulders to support a novel yet. Once it got past the length where I could fool myself into calling it a Long Short Story, it started to creak, bend and waver. It ends abruptly, because I think that's where my stamina quit.

[bsolah]

Number one First time mistake: Worrying too much about the nit-picky mechanics and not finishing the damn story.

[bsolah]

What was wrong with my first novel that I completed was that I was a comfortable and relatively decent short story writer who hadn't developed the shoulders to support a novel yet. Once it got past the length where I could fool myself into calling it a Long Short Story, it started to creak, bend and waver. It ends abruptly, because I think that's where my stamina quit.

That's the case for me with my last two novels, except I never got to the finish. Both are in limbo at thirty thousand words. Would appreciate some advice on how you got over that.

For now, I've gone back to short stories until I can overcome my novel problems. I think it has a bit to do with my inability to create a complete, novel length plot, rather than a good premise and beginning.

[J.S Greer]

Info dumping
Telling as opposed to showing
Adverb/adjective overuse
Poor form/grammar

I agree that you need to tellt he story first and foremost. Most of what is technically unsound can be fixed on revision. It does help a lot to get it as right the first time through as you can though.

[ritinrider]

That's the case for me with my last two novels, except I never got to the finish. Both are in limbo at thirty thousand words. Would appreciate some advice on how you got over that.

For now, I've gone back to short stories until I can overcome my novel problems. I think it has a bit to do with my inability to create a complete, novel length plot, rather than a good premise and beginning.

Hey, maybe you're a short story writer. Nothing wrong with that.

[Mark Lazer]

Isolating your main character.

[blacbird]

Fantasizing that anything will ever get published.

caw

[johnzakour]

Worry way too much about finding an agent. Write the story, the rest will follow.

[Azure Skye]

My biggest mistake is telling and not showing.

[karo.ambrose]

Thinking everything about your first book is gold and pure genius and if it doesn't get accepted, it's because people are too dull and unintelligent to 'get' your masterpiece. You think it's so good that it doesn't even need any serious revisions, just superficial things like grammar and spelling.

Yes, I am speaking in second person and yes, I am referring to myself.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

My biggest mistake was trying to sell a work as a 'Fictional Novel'.

My second biggest was querying a company without telling them anything about the manuscript.

[pconsidine]

Write the story, the rest will follow. Of course, this brings up what I consider the BIGGEST new novelist mistake:

Not having a story to tell.

It's one thing to have a cast of great characters, but they still have to do something. I once saw a definition of plot that called it "a series of events in a particular order for a particular purpose." Many new writers tend to skimp on the purpose (myself included). And purposeless writing make for pretty pointless reading.

Just my 2¢.

[JanDarby]

Lack of significant conflict.

That's also probably the hardest storytelling element to get a good handle on.

JD

[Rashenbo]

I found a helpful article about mistakes author's miss... I don't know if you've been there or not... but here you go.

Ten Mistakes Writers Miss (http://www.holtuncensored.com/ten_mistakes.html)

[Gillhoughly]

:editor's hat on:

Though rarely all at once:

Data dump tell-all about main character & his/her history
Data dump tell-all about setting
No hook
No spell check
No contact info on first and last page of MS in case we DO want to buy it
Not following the publisher's/agent's submissions guidelines
Thinks he or she is the FIRST to use present tense as a significant NEW way tell a story
Leaves pages upside down to see if I read that far
Takes rejections personally
Hasn't read nearly enough works by other writers to learn squat from their example.
Assumes fame, fortune, film deals (and perhaps moving out of the garage) will instantly follow a book sale.
Includes illustrations of characters
Includes illustrations of fantasy critters or space ships, depending on genre
Includes the cover illo their best friend did for the book
Includes astrological sign info in cover letter, along with info that the stars are in the best position for me to buy the work
Makes personal threats if I don't buy the work ("Buy my book or what happens to the serial killer's third victim will happen to YOU!" -- followed by this: "<G>," so I'll know he's just joking. Too late, I'm already phoning the cops.)
Telling me his/her writer's group, on-line readers, blog/My Space buddies, and mom really loved it.
Sending a script instead of a book, thinking the editor is supposed to put in the pesky descriptions and such.
Asking me to please excuse the spelling/grammar, but anyway, that's my job to fix.
Promising to call in a week to see if I liked it.
Scenting paper with perfume/cigarette smoke that sets off asthma/allergy attacks
Including a gift box of chocolates that have melted all over the pages despite the sealed Baggie
Hand-delivering it to the office, then sitting down to watch me READ it. ("Hello, security...?")

[James D. Macdonald]

Not finishing the darned manuscript.

[kuatolives]

Repetition of things already stated.

[stormie]

Worrying about chapter placement.
Worrying about word count and the thing's not finished.
Too many dialogue tags.
Too much info on the first pages.
Too much description.

[Zolah]

Trying to get published waaaaaaaaay too early. I wrote dozens of things when I was a teen, but wrote them all with the assumption that I needed to grow up and write proper stories that weren't copied off other author's books before I would get published. I considered my homages to Tamora Pierce, Susan Cooper, Terry Pratchett, Ursula Le Guin, Piers Anthony and Alan Garner 'practice pieces'. I accepted they weren't good enough to be real books.

I don't know if it's the internet, or Christopher Paolini, or what, but it seems young Zolah's attitude on that point is not shared by the majority of starting-out writers these days.

When/if they can't GET published, they get really, really angry with anyone who can, and all publishers, editors and agents, and then go and sign a contract with Publish America. Or, if these young writers do have talent and they manage to cobble together something fairly coherant, and THEN happen to approach an editor or agent who hasn't read whatever story the young author is ripping off, they end up having a bunch of derivative drivel published, and they can feel ashamed of it for the rest of their lives. Not win-win.

These guys should be honest with themselves, and accept that if everything in their story from character to theme was 'inspired' by another story (or stories) that they love, then it's not a real book, it's an homage and it needs to go in the drawer, not in an envelope to HarperCollins.

[Simon Woodhouse]

With me, it was writing in a way I thought people would want to read, but not in a way I felt comfortable writing. This caused me two false starts. Once I worked out what was wrong, the writing became a bit easier.

[IrishScribbler]

I'm already noticing "first-time" mistakes as I go back and edit the pieces I wrote for my short fiction class a couple of years ago.

I find that, at times, I tell rather than show (seems to be a common mistake in this thread).

I tend(ed) to take what one or more professor(s) said to heart, and use that as the Ultimate Advice, even if it went against my writing style or the story itself. Since then, I've learned that some professors are only parroting what they learned as an undergrad, grad, or doctoral student, and they think because a student has asked for advice, that student should feel obligated to take all advice given.

There are others, but those are the two big ones.

[ChaosTitan]

Trying to get published waaaaaaaaay too early. I wrote dozens of things when I was a teen, but wrote them all with the assumption that I needed to grow up and write proper stories that weren't copied off other author's books before I would get published.

A very good point, Zolah, which goes along with my addition to the list: lack of voice.

Most first time novelists haven't written enough fiction yet to discover their own voice. I freely admit to having written homages in my teen years, from Sweet Valley High-inspired teen angst, to an Outsiders rip-off that is so blatant I laugh when I reread it. I liked what I wrote then, but I never had illusions that it was publishable.

I've been honing my craft for the last fourteen years, writing everything from novels to shorts to screenplays, and learning with each new project. Only in the last year or so have I started to look at my work and think of it as publishable. I have developed my own writing style (certainly influenced by many other writers, but no longer a blatant homage) and it works for me.

Some writers hit a homer their first time at bat. Most of us just swing away for a while, hoping that some day we'll figure out how to connect with the ball. But once we do connect, boy does it feel good. :D

[TrickyFiction]

Not having some kind of in-head outline, so the whole thing twists and turns in so many places, it comes out like a soap-opera, and I have to let it die.

[mistri]

Thinking you deserve to get published just because you've worked really really hard on the book.

Obsessing over one book for years, instead of moving on to writing a second after you've revised the first into shape and have started submitting it.

Not knowing when to take critters' comments to heart, and when it's safe to ignore them.

[ChaosTitan]

Not knowing when to take critters' comments to heart, and when it's safe to ignore them.

First-timers aren't the only ones who miss the boat on this one.

[mistri]

First-timers aren't the only ones who miss the boat on this one.

Very true. But it's another one of those things that you generally (hopefully!) get better at handling the more you do it :) .

[Bufty]

Thinking there's no craft involved - simply hose words onto paper, and bingo!

[Zolah]

Some writers hit a homer their first time at bat. Most of us just swing away for a while, hoping that some day we'll figure out how to connect with the ball. But once we do connect, boy does it feel good. :D

They say an artist or illustrator needs to draw a thousand miles of line before they'll be able to draw something worthwhile. I reckon it's the same with the majority of authors: we need to write a lot of homages, rip-offs and pure copies before we hit our own story, the one we can tell in our own voice. If more authors accepted that - well, there'd be a lot less frustrated authors.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Thinking you deserve to get published just because you've worked really really hard on the book.

Obsessing over one book for years, instead of moving on to writing a second after you've revised the first into shape and have started submitting it.

Not knowing when to take critters' comments to heart, and when it's safe to ignore them.


That sounds a lot like me. Every one of the above quoted mistakes I have also made, in addition to the ones I already listed.

[sunandshadow]

Common beginner mistakes I see:
- using a standard fantasy race or class with no reinterpretation or unique twist
- making the main character too perfect and all conflicts too easy to resolve (mary sueism)
- putting a number in the concept (e.g. 7 angels)
- building the concept around collecting foozles (we must find the 3 orbs of whoozits before the evil overlord does!!!)
- putting a large time gap in the story (every 100 years, or ten years later they saw each other again)
- throwing in random cool worldbuilding elements with no thematic unity

[Akuma]

*Looks at all the mistakes he's been doing*

*Cringes*

*Curls into the fetal position*

[ChaosTitan]

*Looks at all the mistakes he's been doing*

*Cringes*

*Curls into the fetal position*

:Hug2: It gets better, I promise.

[Scarlett_156]

It was so long ago when I started writing novels that I can't even remember making mistakes per se-- I just remember looking at what I had written and thinking that it sure did suck, and becoming horribly depressed. I used to feel like such a failure at the age of ten because I hadn't had anything published yet...

Mistakes I see others making fall into two categories: A) Mistakes in stuff that you know will never be put into print EVER (no spell check, no story, no writing ability, etc.) so why bother pointing them out? and B) mistakes in stuff that might possibly be publishable-- but I would rather have the PUBLISHER tell em what's wrong with it than risk disrupting another perfectly adequate friendship. There are enough people out there who hate my guts already, ya know? I keep a supply of stock phrases to use in each case.

But really the biggest mistake immature novelists make, I think, is asking for advice from too many different people. Believe in yourself, give yourself permission to write stuff that sucks, just do the thing and listen to your muse or whatever you wanna call it. Start writing and don't stop until it's done.

[Scarlett_156]

:editor's hat on:

Though rarely all at once:
Data dump tell-all about main character & his/her history
Data dump tell-all about setting
No hook
No spell check
No contact info on first and last page of MS in case we DO want to buy it
Not following the publisher's/agent's submissions guidelines
Thinks he or she is the FIRST to use present tense as a significant NEW way tell a story
Leaves pages upside down to see if I read that far
Takes rejections personally
Hasn't read nearly enough works by other writers to learn squat from their example.
Assumes fame, fortune, film deals (and perhaps moving out of the garage) will instantly follow a book sale.
Includes illustrations of characters
Includes illustrations of fantasy critters or space ships, depending on genre
Includes the cover illo their best friend did for the book
Includes astrological sign info in cover letter, along with info that the stars are in the best position for me to buy the work
Makes personal threats if I don't buy the work ("Buy my book or what happens to the serial killer's third victim will happen to YOU!" -- followed by this: "<G>," so I'll know he's just joking. Too late, I'm already phoning the cops.)
Telling me his/her writer's group, on-line readers, blog/My Space buddies, and mom really loved it.
Sending a script instead of a book, thinking the editor is supposed to put in the pesky descriptions and such.
Asking me to please excuse the spelling/grammar, but anyway, that's my job to fix.
Promising to call in a week to see if I liked it.
Scenting paper with perfume/cigarette smoke that sets off asthma/allergy attacks
Including a gift box of chocolates that have melted all over the pages despite the sealed Baggie
Hand-delivering it to the office, then sitting down to watch me READ it. ("Hello, security...?")

This is funny as hell! When I was helping a friend edit a magazine once there was one guy who got angry at us because we wouldn't accept his handwritten articles... death threats and verbal abuse were a fairly common syndrome as well. Man, did that bring back some memories... O.o I had blocked most of that stuff out.

[Bartholomew]

Worst first time mistake?

Thinking about writing without actually writing.

[zorasaura]

- using a standard fantasy race or class with no reinterpretation or unique twist
- making the main character too perfect and all conflicts too easy to resolve (mary sueism)
- putting a number in the concept (e.g. 7 angels)
- building the concept around collecting foozles (we must find the 3 orbs of whoozits before the evil overlord does!!!)
- putting a large time gap in the story (every 100 years, or ten years later they saw each other again)
- throwing in random cool worldbuilding elements with no thematic unity

Yeah. Those are common as flies on a horse's bum. concepts that revolve around collecting foozles. Man. I see that all the time.

I love it! Keep it coming people! I think this is helpful for a lot of us. I certainly see many of the same mistakes.

One question...

Should we write with the intention of pleasing a reader or with the intention of mastering the work for ourselves alone?

Veteran writers, what do you do?

[Scarlett_156]

^^^ You should write with the intention of writing.

[janetbellinger]

My first time writing, I wrote an 80,000+ children's novel and ended up destroying both the computer, back up and hard copies. I don't know whether that was a mistake or not, probably though. I mean, there must have been something in those 80,000 words I could have used somewhere, mustn't there?

[tlblack]

Not playing "show and tell" the right way. An English teacher of mine once said when talking about essays... "Writing is like a PB & J sandwich. Too much peanut butter and it's too thick to swallow, and with too much jelly, you can hardly taste the peanut butter. With just the right mix of both, you have the perfect combination." Of course she was talking to a bunch of teenagers and any of us who have raised children know that the way to get their attention is to mention food, but you still have to apply the "show and tell" to any ms. or article. My biggest problem at first trying to figure out how "thick" was too thick, and then scraping some of that peanut butter off the pages without taking away from the story.

[Manat]

Not playing "show and tell" the right way. An English teacher of mine once said when talking about essays... "Writing is like a PB & J sandwich. Too much peanut butter and it's too thick to swallow, and with too much jelly, you can hardly taste the peanut butter. With just the right mix of both, you have the perfect combination." Of course she was talking to a bunch of teenagers and any of us who have raised children know that the way to get their attention is to mention food, but you still have to apply the "show and tell" to any ms. or article. My biggest problem at first trying to figure out how "thick" was too thick, and then scraping some of that peanut butter off the pages without taking away from the story.


I really like this analogy! It puts it in just the right perspective. Thanks for sharing!

[karo.ambrose]

Lack of significant conflict.

That's also probably the hardest storytelling element to get a good handle on.

JD

Does significant conflict mean use lots of exclamation points? That's what I first thought.

[Akuma]

Does significant conflict mean use lots of exclamation points? That's what I first thought.

No way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Just wrote a bestseller*

[MidnightMuse]

Grammar and punctuation were my biggies.

Okay, maybe I still struggle - but I'm improving :D

[anodyne]

Throwing things out.

[Novelist in Paradise]

Number one First time mistake: Worrying too much about the nit-picky mechanics and not finishing the damn story.

Yup.

But that's more than just a first timer mistake.

[John61480]

Well, I can say from my experience, first time follies would be:

* too little description and narration, it just flies and the concepts aren't fully explored.

* too much description and narration, but the problem is, it isn't related to the story. When reading it as a whole, it produces a big, dense time waster.

* tense. I still hit that sucker hard.

* finally, running through the story too fast. What was a grand epic idea turns out to have not enough meat in it to satisfy 80,000 word count. You find 30,000 is the end, and you're wondering why the story has decided to squat instead of take off. This point pissed me off the most.

[farfromfearless]

Mistake: Not understanding the value and of good criticism - taking it in stride and using it to better my writing.

[NCRomanceWriter]

Worst first time mistake?

Thinking about writing without actually writing.

That would be me. :cry:

[inanna]

I'd agree with the info dumping being a common mistake. Pacing can be a problem, since it's easy to lose track of the conflict in a scene. I also think first time writers sometimes fail to develop their characters well, and often unintentionally keep the reader at a distance. The story unfolds like a movie (and a lot of movie watching is possibly to blame for this), as if we're watching it on a screen, but we're not privy to the character's deeper internal processing. There's action and reaction, but not always enough emotional connection.

[J.S Greer]

Common beginner mistakes I see:
- using a standard fantasy race or class with no reinterpretation or unique twist
- making the main character too perfect and all conflicts too easy to resolve (mary sueism)
- putting a number in the concept (e.g. 7 angels)
- building the concept around collecting foozles (we must find the 3 orbs of whoozits before the evil overlord does!!!)
- putting a large time gap in the story (every 100 years, or ten years later they saw each other again)
- throwing in random cool worldbuilding elements with no thematic unity

Being a fan of fantasy, those are great. :D

Should we write with the intention of pleasing a reader or with the intention of mastering the work for ourselves alone?

I would say both. It's like tlblacks peanut butter and jelly analogy above.

Id say getting the idea down on paper is the key. Once it's there, then you can use the 1001 tools/tricks to polish it up and make it better.

[NeuroFizz]

Being too impressed with one's own prose. In other words, taking fifteen words to say what can be said better with seven or eight. The prose of many new writers is sometimes anywhere from a light shade of lavendar to the deepest purple, and it gets in the way of the story. I know, because I saved a hardcopy of my very first novel-length project. Some parts are so bruise-purple, I cringe. Others are giggle-inspiring.

[J.S Greer]

Being too impressed with one's own prose. In other words, taking fifteen words to say what can be said better with seven or eight. The prose of many new writers is sometimes anywhere from a light shade of lavendar to the deepest purple, and it gets in the way of the story. I know, because I saved a hardcopy of my very first novel-length project. Some parts are so bruise-purple, I cringe. Others are giggle-inspiring.

Good lord if I had a dollar for every example of this ive ever seen...

[ChunkyC]

Good lord if I had a dollar for every example of this ive ever seen...
Don't come over to my house, I'd owe you a fortune. ;)

[PeeDee]

Being too impressed with one's own prose. In other words, taking fifteen words to say what can be said better with seven or eight. The prose of many new writers is sometimes anywhere from a light shade of lavendar to the deepest purple, and it gets in the way of the story. I know, because I saved a hardcopy of my very first novel-length project. Some parts are so bruise-purple, I cringe. Others are giggle-inspiring.

This should be a hanging offense, honestly.

[ChaosTitan]

This should be a hanging offense, honestly.

It would certainly cut down on the number of aspiring writers... :ROFL:

[gp101]

Funny, a couple months back we had a discussion in the SYW thread about the most common mistakes we (new/aspiring/unpublished writers) were making in the stories we posted for our peers to crit. The complaints were very similar to the ones I just read in this thread.

You can find that other discussion here:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38898&page=4

On page 4, post # 85 I tried compiling the biggest offenses that were listed regarding our SYW offerings. And yes, I was guilty of committing many of those literary blunders.

[Julie Worth]

Too much telling: I had a professor give a lecture for an entire chapter.

[FergieC]

The worst mistake in my first full novel was putting a hook in the first chapter which actually didn't go anywhere. I figured a dead body on the first page would be sure to grab an agent, then spent the rest of the novel wondering who the hell he was and what he had to do with the story or the characters I was writing about.

Every so often I would have to go back to 'oh yeah, and that dead guy...um...I'm keeping you reading on for a great revelation later...honestly...' when really, it was just a crass and pointless dead body. :flag:

[icerose]

I've just read over my first novel, started it when I was twelve. I had an over-affection with words like "Suddenly."

Overuse of every adverb imaginable. I still have problems with sentence variation but I am working on it.

Drama queen much? My main character was highly emotional, of course she was only thirteen, but still over dramatized. She was what I was wanting to say on the inside, but trying to be too mature to allow such behavior on the outside.

[bsolah]

I was in love with 'Suddenly' at the age of 12 too. I thought it was a genius was to alarm your reader...each and everytime I did it, which was like every second paragraph.