E-book or Print?

[TwentyFour]

I was wondering what would be the best way for a first time author to be published, ebook or print? Do print publishers often publish first in hardbound books or paperback? I always heard hardbound, but most publishers now seem to be publishing paperback first. What is the right way and the wrong way to go about this for a first time author? Where should a first timer begin?

[Shadow_Ferret]

Get an agent and let them worry about it?

[Maryn]

I'll just keep the reply box warm until someone with more experience comes along.

My understanding is that publishers earn the most per book sale from hardbounds retailing at $25 or $30. Authors who can sell hardbounds are fewer than those who can sell in paperback, because more people are willing to shell out $6 or $8, so the larger number of sales is in paper, but with less profit per sale. Lowest in sales is ebooks. Many people who are fully comfortable with computers won't read ebooks, for a variety of reasons.

So if I were trying for publication right now, I'd aim high first (hardbound publishers), then go for trade paperback, mass market paperback, and last, ebooks. Naturally, if you get an agent, he or she will market your work to the best publisher(s) for it, regardless of what kind of book they produce.

I intend no offense to anybody whose main market is ebooks, of course.

Maryn, who rarely intends to offend anybody

[PeeDee]

I guess I'm just crustily (adverb! ACK!) stuck in the past, but I still sort of view e-books as "doesn't quite count."

Even though I know they do, somewhere deep down.

I've just about accepted e-print magazines. give me time.

[icerose]

E-book sales are extremely low. Vein, where are you? This is your spot, she can explain better because she is doing it.

The answer is it depends. What is the subject matter, does it have a wide audience? What are your goals, what do you wish to accomplish with your publication?

From what I've seen books are first released in paperback unless you are a bestselling author or a celeb and if they sell really well then are later released as hardback.

[TwentyFour]

I do not prefer ebook, but just want to know the take on it by others in the profession and why. I personally do not like reading them, they hurt my head and it's hard to follow. I'm old fashioned about it, I like running my finger over the page, dog ear it, highlight when I want...hard to do in pdf.

[janetbellinger]

Plus you can't lean back in a recliner while reading off a computer screen.

[icerose]

I do not prefer ebook, but just want to know the take on it by others in the profession and why. I personally do not like reading them, they hurt my head and it's hard to follow. I'm old fashioned about it, I like running my finger over the page, dog ear it, highlight when I want...hard to do in pdf.

Then you know the route you want to go, which is paper print.

[veinglory]

Whichever will sell more?

For my first books (erotic, novella length, homosexual) this was probably ebook. I would make a short list based on suitability for your book, order it by your best estimate of sales and start at the top.

But, hypocrite that I am, I just picked some small publishers I like and respect and did it that way instead. Other people would rather have a book in hand than sell twice as many copies, go figure. Just look at suitable publishers, get an idea what they can do and what they are like and go with whatever is most important to you.

[blacbird]

I like running my finger over the page, dog ear it, highlight when I want...hard to do in pdf.

Copy it to a floppy disk.

caw

[NeuroFizz]

Go for print, but realize that for some niches, and for some genres, e-books are descent sellers. Consider all opportunities that come your way, but always aim high. I've taken a less direct tack for personal strategic reasons, but I've had some good opportunities come along and I took them. Time will tell how it all serves me.

[veinglory]

Plus you can't lean back in a recliner while reading off a computer screen.

That's what laptops are for ;)

[J.S Greer]

I guess I'm just crustily (adverb! ACK!) stuck in the past, but I still sort of view e-books as "doesn't quite count."

Even though I know they do, somewhere deep down.

I've just about accepted e-print magazines. give me time.

Same here. There is nothing like holding a book in your hands as you read. Sitting in front of a monitor, or printing an e-book out on 7x11 paper just doesnt equate to the same thing for me.

[JanDarby]

It depends on what you want to accomplish. It also depends on your genre. For example, it's extremely rare for a first-time romance author (and, I believe, although I have less experience there, a first-time SF/F author) to be published initially in hardcover. Conversely (at least as I understand it, b/c, again, it's outside my genre), it's rare for a literary author to be published initially in paperback (of the standard size; trade size might be a different story, not sure).

Also, it's not really an either-or situation. Most of the major publishers also release their authors' books (at least the major ones) in assorted formats, from hardcover to audio to e-book and paperback (although some formats are delayed to encourage people to spend the extra money on the hardcover), is if you go through a major publisher, you might well end up being paper-published, e-published, cd-published (audio) and who knows what other format, as technology changes.

JD, epublished only, as of now

[JulesJones]

I'm published by an epublisher, and *I* don't read ebooks. I think they are a marvellous idea, but they simply don't work for me - between the RSI, the poor eyesight, and the short term memory problems, it's much harder work for me to read an ebook than a print book. Which sucks, because a lot of the books I'd like to read are e-only.

In most genres, go for a print publisher first (subject to the usual caveat about making sure that they are not scammers or incompetents:-). Epublishing still reaches a small minority of readers (other than special cases like Baen), and I happen to write in one of the few genres where a good epublisher sells well. Even so, my sales numbers are still small press level.

But I'd also echo the advice given above -- get an agent, and let them worry about it. Yes, I know, easier said than done. :-)

[Gillhoughly]

Print. Always print.

Print = Payment. You WANT payment.

Payment = advance check, pro status, you're allowed to play with the big kids and they're nice to you.

Print = having a book in a real bookstore, doing signings, cable TV shows, selling 1000's of copies, not just a hundred or so, wearing better clothes, looking and acting like you know what the heck is going on--all of which are really, really nice.

E-book = kind of hard for a proud mom to wave one of those under the nose of a snooty neighbor.

[J.S Greer]

Print. Always print.

Print = Payment. You WANT payment.

Payment = advance check, pro status, you're allowed to play with the big kids and they're nice to you.

Print = having a book in a real bookstore, doing signings, cable TV shows, selling 1000's of copies, not just a hundred or so, wearing better clothes, looking and acting like you know what the heck is going on--all of which are really, really nice.

E-book = kind of hard for a proud mom to wave one of those under the nose of a snooty neighbor.

Quoted for truth.

[maddythemad]

I personally like printed books, because you can curl up with them, unlike an e-book. Also, there's something nice about being able to hold the book in your hands, IMO. As for sales... I haven't the foggiest idea how e-books do.

[Ken Schneider]

Shoot for the top. Biggest best print pub you can find, or an agent to find for you, first, then work your way down to e-print and self-pub.

How many complete novels have you written? 80,000- 100,000 words.

Have you let your work sit for a time, two-three months before doing any red pencil corrections, or rewrites.

Don't get the , "I want printed fever." Make your work the best you can make it, send it around, and start writing another book.

[JulesJones]

You want numbers for epub? Mine have all sold several hundred, and my main promo efforts involve writing the next book. That's perfectly respectable for small press, but it's nothing compared to the tens of thousands even a mid-list print book will sell. There are ebooks that have sold several thousand, but you really do have to be published with one of the big epublishers to have much hope of seeing that, and they're just as selective as the print publishers. If they weren't, they wouldn't be selling in that quantity.

[PVish]

I'm toying with the idea of having my self-pubbed novel in ebook form. It's sold about 1700 copies (two offset press runs of 1,000 each), gotten good local and regional reviews, and made a nice profit. The novel has been out since mid-2001. I think I've maxed out the local market, though it continues to sell at the only bookstore in the county and at a couple area giftshops. Now some questions:

Is this something I should do? Or would it be a waste of my time?
How do I find a reputable ebook publisher for a novel?
Do ebooks, as a rule, make money?

[NeuroFizz]

You most likely won't match your current total sales since you have probably saturated your most immediate market. Hold out and see if you can get one of the major print publishers interested. If not, either move on to something else or go e-book. Keep your expectations realistic, though.

[blacbird]

Get an agent and let them worry about it?

Yep. Run right down to Wal-Mart and get you one. They're located next to Hardware.

caw

[PVish]

You most likely won't match your current total sales since you have probably saturated your most immediate market. Hold out and see if you can get one of the major print publishers interested. If not, either move on to something else or go e-book. Keep your expectations realistic, though.

Yep, I have saturated the local market for this book. That's why I was thinking of e-books. Odds are good that I'm not going to get a major print publisher interested in picking up a self-pubbed novel that has sold less than 2,000 books in 5 years.

I figure an e-book version could keep the book alive for a few more years and make it available for anyone not in the local market who might want to read it. (This novel, whose first press run was partially underwritten by an arts council, got good local reviews, was studied by several book clubs, got me into several bookfests, etc. But it isn't available on amazon.com or from any other online retailers.)

So, should I try to get this book out as an e-book? Or just forget it? I already have a couple of other manuscripts circulating among publishers, so it isn't my only project.

If I should try for an e-book, who are some reputable e-book publishers?

[Thomma Lyn]

I'm published by an epublisher, and *I* don't read ebooks. I think they are a marvellous idea, but they simply don't work for me...

Ha! You sound like me. I have a romance novella published by an e-publisher, but for my recently completed and polished novel, I'm shooting for print publication and querying agents. And I've never read an e-book in my life (other than mine).

[veinglory]

The best epublisher to choose depends a lot on the genre.

[J.S Greer]

Ha! You sound like me. I have a romance novella published by an e-publisher, but for my recently completed and polished novel, I'm shooting for print publication and querying agents. And I've never read an e-book in my life (other than mine).

Which is why it baffles me that people would release a book in E form...Ive yet to meet one person who has ever bought an e-book.

Also, it seems to me that once one person has a copy of an E-Book, all they have to do is put it on limewire or another P2P client then everyone can DL it for free, rather than paying for it.

Either way, print rules.

[PVish]

The best epublisher to choose depends a lot on the genre.

Mainstream. Southern lit.

Which is why it baffles me that people would release a book in E form...Ive yet to meet one person who has ever bought an e-book.

I've never bought an e-book either. Downloaded some free ones, though.

I guess I should just let this book die, but I figured I had nothing to lose going the e-book route. At a couple of conferences, I've talked to agents about it; since I didn't sell 5,000 in the first year, a commercial print publisher is unlikely to be interested.

[veinglory]

Which is why it baffles me that people would release a book in E form...Ive yet to meet one person who has ever bought an e-book. Also, it seems to me that once one person has a copy of an E-Book, all they have to do is put it on limewire or another P2P client then everyone can DL it for free, rather than paying for it.

There is more on heaven and earth than, apparently, you are familiar with. I have in the last year sold about 4000 ebooks. Even 1% of the market (about where ebooks currently are) is quite a few actually copies of the books and several genres sell well in digital formats. Why do people pay for newspapers in dispenser boxes and buy new books when they could all pass around a single copy or xeros\x it for free at work? They just, on the whole, do. Weirdly enough most people find it easier to be honest.

[Richard White]

Print. Always print.

Print = Payment. You WANT payment.

Payment = advance check, pro status, you're allowed to play with the big kids and they're nice to you.

Print = having a book in a real bookstore, doing signings, cable TV shows, selling 1000's of copies, not just a hundred or so, wearing better clothes, looking and acting like you know what the heck is going on--all of which are really, really nice.

E-book = kind of hard for a proud mom to wave one of those under the nose of a snooty neighbor.

Hmm, I have an e-book out through Pocket Books/Simon and Schuster.

Payment - Yep, got it
Advance - Yep, got it
Selling 1000s of copies, yep, got that also.
Plus, when it does get collected into the trade paperback, I start drawing royalties from the first book sold.

So, your blanket statement was somewhat wet.

[J.S Greer]

There is more on heaven and earth than, apparently, you are familiar with. I have in the last year sold about 4000 ebooks. Even 1% of the market (about where ebooks currently are) is quite a few actually copies of the books and several genres sell well in digital formats. Why do people pay for newspapers in dispenser boxes and buy new books when they could all pass around a single copy or xeros\x it for free at work? They just, on the whole, do. Weirdly enough most people find it easier to be honest.

Im sure that you know it all though :tongue

I think xeroxing a book and downloading a pdf are a tad different in scope, so im not sure thats the best analogy.

You published an homosexual erotic ebook; erotica is one genre that does well in e format, Im guessing because of the discretion it allows.

Do you think your success is the exception or the rule? As I said, I dont know anyone who has ever purchased an e-book. My point was, that e-books arent as viable as print.

Ebooks are still a niche market although their popularity is increasing, 4000 in sales is fairly rare from what ive read, exposure is limited, reviews are hard to come by, marketing is limited in most cases, there is a lack of professional credit where ebooks are concerned, most epublishers do not give advances...

There are exceptions to every rule, as a few of you have shown in this thread. the facts, in general, do remain the facts though. Print is a better route in many ways, for many reasons, in general.

[James D. Macdonald]

What's the matter with ebook (http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/cgi-bin/item/parent-0742091406/My-Favorite-Fantasy-Story.html) and print (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0886779057/ref=nosim/madhousemanor/)? Cover the waterfront.

Go with the best publisher -- that means the one with the most distribution muscle -- that you can get. Format is a minor thing compared to distribution.

[veinglory]

I don't make blanket recommendations for publishing all books as ebooks rather than with random house, but this thread was about a specific situation. In the context of this specific thread, releasing an ebook is almost certain to earn more than not releasing any further copies of the book at all.

Thing seem to keep comign down to blanket statements for or against, ebooks are what they are--not a panacea or a bane.

[IrishScribbler]

I guess I'm just crustily (adverb! ACK!) stuck in the past, but I still sort of view e-books as "doesn't quite count."

I agree. There's nothing like the smell of a new book, or the feel of the pages between your fingers. Doesn't quite compare to the feeling of a scroll button on the mouse.

[aruna]

My first two novels - mainstream - were published first as trade paperbacks. My editor said they did not expect huge sales from them, but they were to show th emedia that the books wree being taken seriously - so they would get reviews, which are very hard to get,
Paperback originals are never reviewed.
In both cases, the paperbacks came a year later, and of course sold better.
The third book appeared first as a hardback. I never understood the rationale behind that, as I know my editor didn't like it very much.

[Dave.C.Robinson]

If I hear back from the publisher who's looking at my first novel in the positive I'll be released pretty much simultaneously in e book and paper format. If I hear in the negative, I won't.

I like Uncle Jim's statement. Go for both-- especially if you get paid more.

(I've spent several hundred dollars on e books this year-- it's really handy for game manuals-- just print out the bits you need.)

[PVish]

. . . this thread was about a specific situation. In the context of this specific thread, releasing an ebook is almost certain to earn more than not releasing any further copies of the book at all.

My situation: Do I try to sell my already self-pubbed general fiction novel (1,700 print copies sold in 5 years) as an e-book, or do I just let the book die?

My specific question: What e-book publishers (1) are reputable and (2) deal with previously self-published (two offset press runs of 1,000 each; not POD) mainstream fiction?

[veinglory]

I suggested hardshell as a good place to start. One of the oldest and biggest cross-genre epublishers.

[PVish]

I suggested hardshell as a good place to start. One of the oldest and biggest cross-genre epublishers.

And, alas, not currently accepting submissions except for their four-book anthology series centering on Egyptian artifacts. However, this info is very outdated: the last book in the series is supposed to be out in 2/07. All the others had release dates in 2005-2006

A note on their website says they hope to reopen their regular submissions "soon, and will probably do so by genre."

Thanks for the tip, though. I'll check their site periodically. Looks like they've published a lot of eBooks.

[PeeDee]

I don't like e-books much, mostly because I do a fair chunk of reading in the bath and I'm not risking electrocution*. No matter how good your book is. Also, it doesn't do my eyes any good to stare at blocks of text that long.

That said.....I adore my Baen Library disk that I got, and have happily read good chunks of books through that. in the end, I always wound up buying the print versions, though, and finishing the story there.

Part of it, I think, is that I do a lot of writing on the computer (especially scripts and short stories) and I read slush piles on the computer, and I do graphic design work on the computer, and I do web-design work on the computer......... When I sit down with a book, it feels like relaxing.

This is probably not a useful post. Just me, musing.


* When I first typed this, I typed "elocution." I dont' want to risk that either.

[bethannerickson]

Hey Pete,

Interesting observation... you reading an e-book just long enough to get interested enough to purchase the hard-copy.

I think that's the situation that works well for fiction writers: use the e-book to sell the print copy.

Face it. Most readers won't take a 30 buck gamble on an author they haven't heard of before. Sometimes 20 bucks is too much. But an ultra-inexpensive (or even free) e-book? They may download it, get a taste for the story and perhaps go on to buy the book.

Seth Goden has refined this process down to an art form. Douglas Clegg routinely gives away excerpts and even entire books. Seems to work well for them.

Plus, that scenario has worked well for me so far.

E-books as a profit center may or may not work. E-books as viral marketing devices seems pretty darn effective.

My two cents,

Beth

[PeeDee]

That was Jim Baen's theory, god rest his soul. It certainly worked, too. His Baen Library was genius, and it sold me on more Baen Books than I would have otherwise bought (because really, until I read them, they weren't my thing).

[Dave.C.Robinson]

Baen is the publisher that's looking at one of mine. They're also the only mainstream publisher that's made e-books work, and that's by giving some away, selling the others cheap and generally making them a loss leader.

I even picked up a PDA because of Baen. It works pretty well though I could use a larger screen.

[veinglory]

I think Simon & Schuster have the right sort of idea about ebooks too. Not just using them for promo but having them sensibly priced and easily available for that market segment.

[Branwyn]

I'm going with a publisher that does the ebook route first, and then print(providing word count is within the range).

[PeeDee]

I'm going with a publisher that does the ebook route first, and then print(providing word count is within the range).

So are they using the ebook as a way of testing the waters, to see what the response is, and then if they think it's big enough, they publish it in print?

I guess I could see that being a logical use for it (if, that IS what they're doing) but the bit I'd be worried about is that the people who were interested buy it first as an ebook, and then when they release it in print....they've already bought it.

Then again, I think a fair number of people probably buy the ebook and then buy the paper book to finish reading.

[veinglory]

A fair number of the epublishers now POD if the book is long enough. Some for every book and some only if sales warrant.

[Branwyn]

I was told that the book will go into print. Obviously, I'm expecting the sales of the ebook to be successful.:partyguy:

[JulesJones]

The thread's grown while I was offline over Christmas...

I'm making money from ebooks. Not huge amounts of money, but I'm not exactly unhappy with some $3000 dollars in royalties this year. I'd like to be with one of the big publishers, and in print, but I'm also a natural novella writer and I'm not turning down the opportunity to get money for those while I learn to write something suitable for the New York slushpiles.

I know people who buy ebooks. (One's sitting right next to me as I type.) Some people prefer them to print books for various reasons -- and not just the ease of keeping one's erotic romance collection away from one's parents and children. The primary reason seems to be storage and convenience -- you can carry a lot of books with you on one PDA, and you can store a huge number of books on a hard drive. Another big factor for some people is ease of purchase -- there's a bunch of ex-pats buying books from my publisher because they can get the books instantly and without having to pay overseas shipping or worrying about theft in the post.

And I know, because they've said so, that some of my readers have bought the ebook, and then bought the print edition when it came out. They've done this with other ebooks as well. It seems to be something happening quite often with the erotic romance readers now -- they prefer ebooks for their general purchases because it's an easy way to store lots of books in a very portable form, and they don't then have to go through deciding which ones to throw out or put in storage boxes; but the ones they *really* like and will read again they'll then go out and buy in paperback if possible. Their definition of "keeper shelf" has extended to include the ones they'll buy in print even though they could have the book in electronic form.