Is there ever a time when Writer's Block is justified?

[janetbellinger]

Is there ever a time when Writer's Block is justified, such as when you've been getting rejected for fifteen years and one day it just doesn't seem right to keep on writing? Does it make sense to keep writing under these circumstances or should a person just pack it in and go work out or something?

[TwentyFour]

I had writers block for four years...all because I decided to go to college and then chased boys...what a waste :)

[Celia Cyanide]

I have no idea, but I ask myself this question every day. So when you get an answer be sure to report back to me. :)

[Shadow_Ferret]

I had self-imposed writer's block for about 7 years. I just gave up because certain things in my life seemed to be getting in the way. As it turned out, I was just letting them get in the way. I needed to come up with a schedule.

You just need to set priorities. How important is writing to you?

[Siddow]

That's not writer's block. That's quitting.

Big difference. "Winners never quit, and quitters never win. But those who never quit AND never win are idiots." Demotivational poster of the day.

I block when I'm angry. I know I should just take it out on some poor fictional ba**ard, but what did they ever do to me?

Go work out. Run until you can barely breathe. If you still feel like quitting then, you have my permission. Get some oxygen in that brain before making decisions.

[J.S Greer]

That's not writer's block. That's quitting.


Exactamundo.

Writers block is when you want to write, but the words wont come. You try, but putting a coherent thought together seems impossible.

Getting rejected for years then saying "Why bother" is quitting.

You should write because you love it. If being published is your only justification for carrying on, then writing isnt for you.

[Judg]

You have to set your own priorities. Sometimes quitting is an intelligent thing to do. Look at it this way, at the end of your life, if you've never been published, would you look back and say "I wish I had done X instead of spending that time writing?" If the answer is yes, maybe you should consider doing X. But there are a lot of things that need to be weighed here and it can't be reduced to a simple formula.

If being published is important to you - and I, for one, do not find that crass at all - then maybe you should try to figure out why you are getting rejected and see if it's fixable. Has your work ever been critiqued?

[Zolah]

Writer's Block doesn't HAVE to justify itself. It just comes and whacks you across the head with the SandBag of Fate and it's up to you to pick yourself up and sit back in the chair (if you don't need hospital treatment first).

[Celia Cyanide]

Writers block is when you want to write, but the words wont come. You try, but putting a coherent thought together seems impossible.

Getting rejected for years then saying "Why bother" is quitting.

But the latter might cause the former, which is how I interpreted the OP.

[Akuma]

I'd say a Writer's Block is justified when you have to go save the world.


Eh....

"Let me just write one more paragraph and then I'll get on it..."

[janetbellinger]

Exactamundo.

Writers block is when you want to write, but the words wont come. You try, but putting a coherent thought together seems impossible.

Getting rejected for years then saying "Why bother" is quitting.

You should write because you love it. If being published is your only justification for carrying on, then writing isnt for you.

Being published isn't my only justification for carrying on, but after fifteen years I have passed the point of just writing for the sheer joy of it and crave some sort of acknowledgement from the writing world that I do after all have a shred of talent, something to offer. I don't want to go around with my head in the sand, continuing to write and reassuring myself that it's all "their" fault I'm not published, that the world is just unable to recogninze my genius, lol. I know som peoplw will say you have to believe in yourself but I have moved past that point. I need some affirmation from the writing world or at least from God or Jupiter or something that I am not wasting my time. Judg, you have a point. I don't want to spend the rest of my life struggling with scenes that nobody will ever read. What's the point? I'd rather do something where I can feel effective. I hate feeling ineffective. That's why I don't like substitute teaching. I never feel like I've done a good job or an important one. So I have two careers which have the potential to be fulfilling but are not. I could be travelling, learning a new language, taking up pottery or R aek Won Do, or anything. At least I could feel myself improving at those things.
'txa9o

[Little Red Barn]

Janet is writing your passion?
If so a few little tricks may help overcome this...
Change of scene...Little things...go outside on a nice day and try writing.
Change your computer area...spice it up, by simple cheap decor'. Or make it a serene place...
Go to the bookstore often...
Take frequent breaks in between writing and exercise to stimulate your mind...


kimmi

[Simon Woodhouse]

Is being published the only reason people write? I'd hope not – there's got to be more to it than that. If you enjoy writing, does it matter if you're published or not? Being published is not a reflection on the quality of your writing. If it were, there'd be no such thing as crappy books.

[janetbellinger]

Is being published the only reason people write? I'd hope not – there's got to be more to it than that. If you enjoy writing, does it matter if you're published or not? Being published is not a reflection on the quality of your writing. If it were, there'd be no such thing as crappy books.

Simon, being published isn't the only reason people write, but you have to admit it gets discouraging to keep changing your novel after five years of working on it, and getting absolutely no encouragement. Nobody likes banging their head against a brick wall. We all need recognition in our chosen career. If nobody ever reads your book what is the point of writing it?

[aadams73]

Writer's block happens to me when I'm going in the wrong direction and don't realize it.

Push out in a new writing direction. Write something you wouldn't normally write. Something wonderful might come out of it. Experiment with short stories, or maybe some poetry. Stretch yourself.

But don't give up something you love.

[PeeDee]

When I stop writing, it's because there's an intelligent little voice in the back of my head which is saying "Hang on. Something stinks."

It means I'm doing the scene wrong, or I've started it too soon or too late, or I'm going down the wrong path, or the character is in the wrong place, or something like that.

It's my sub-conscious telling me that something is not jiving. Generally, I'm blocked on that project until I figure out the problem, and then I rush happily onward.

[aadams73]

S you have to admit it gets discouraging to keep changing your novel after five years of working on it,

Maybe it's time to set that one aside and write something else. You'll be able to put everything you've learned towards something new.

[JeanneTGC]

When I stop writing, it's because there's an intelligent little voice in the back of my head which is saying "Hang on. Something stinks."

It means I'm doing the scene wrong, or I've started it too soon or too late, or I'm going down the wrong path, or the character is in the wrong place, or something like that.

It's my sub-conscious telling me that something is not jiving. Generally, I'm blocked on that project until I figure out the problem, and then I rush happily onward.

Wow, Pete and I "block" alike! Ditto for me on all that Pete said...and also ditto for the idea of working on something else. WIP #1 may not be the "one" to get you going. So work on others. I have many. MANY. The more output you have, the more chances you have to "hit".

If you've only worked on one book all this time, for sure branch out and try new things -- different genres, different lengths, different voices. If you have plenty, then pick up an older one and see how it reads now; fix it up if it needs it and if it doesn't, send it out. And on and on. It's very hard to push past the rejection, but some of us just have to persevere longer than others. (I was originally hoping to be in the fast group, but I guess I get to be in the "good example of perseverance" group instead. Happy, happy, joy, joy.)

I would still write even if no one else wanted to read anything I wrote, but I am with you in that there is a point where you want someone else to read your stuff and give you some form of validation. Maybe a critique partner, even just a sample over at the SYW forum? If you're already past that, then just keep on keeping on. Maybe that "YES!" is in the next query you send out.

[badducky]

writer's block is for whiny graduate students. get back to work!

[PeeDee]

Honestly? Look...

If I couldn't publish anything that I wrote...

....I would take a type writer and I would go sit in the mall. I would write short stories, hunched over it, and I would take each page and tape them up on the wall.

I would do this as people read them, and I would do this as people didn't read them. I would eventually get kicked out, and then I would come back the next day, and I would do it again.

It's just who I am. I need to read, I need to write, I need to tell people stories. It's how I'm built.

[TrickyFiction]

I don't want to spend the rest of my life struggling with scenes that nobody will ever read. What's the point?

You will read it. That's the point.

[Simon Woodhouse]

Simon, being published isn't the only reason people write, but you have to admit it gets discouraging to keep changing your novel after five years of working on it, and getting absolutely no encouragement. Nobody likes banging their head against a brick wall. We all need recognition in our chosen career. If nobody ever reads your book what is the point of writing it?

I know what you're saying. But first and foremost, what I write, I write for me. When I'm at that stage where I'm thrashing out the idea for my next project, one of the most important questions I keep asking myself is 'will I like writing this?' This comes way before 'will anyone like reading it?' If I'm not interested in, or happy with, the basic premise, writing the book will be torture. In fact, I think most writer's block comes from the writer not really taking enough time to consider the project, before they put pen to paper.

[Celia Cyanide]

When I stop writing, it's because there's an intelligent little voice in the back of my head which is saying "Hang on. Something stinks."

I have the same thing happen. In my case it's usually The Whole Thing.

[icerose]

Hi Janet,

How many books have you written?

I have completed five, have several partials that have hit blocks because my writing was improving faster than I could finish them and they need to be seriously revised before I can continue.

The reason why I ask is because it sounds like you are focussed too much on one or two projects.

After completing five books and editing them and such my writing has grown more than I can express and it keeps growing. Had I stuck with the first one or two books and kept revising rather than submitting and keep writing, I wouldn't be nearly as far along in my writing as I am now.

My suggestion is if you wish to keep writing, start a new book, like now. Get it finished, then start another one. Get the new one edited while finishing up the second and let it sit and start on the third. Don't let large chunks of pause between writing books just because one needs editing.

Anyway, good luck in your decision making and if you haven't passed the one million words of crap (I have woohoo!) I strongly suggest working towards that because you wouldn't believe what a difference it makes in your writing after that.

It doesn't mean you have to write 1 million words before your work becomes publishable, but it really is a good goal to work on and it does help.

Sara

[PeeDee]

I have completed five, have several partials that have hit blocks because my writing was improving faster than I could finish them and they need to be seriously revised before I can continue.


I'm glad that I'm not the only one this has happened to. I had a year or so there where I produced nothing useful, though I produced a great deal of stuff, just because I was growing in leaps and bounds. It was like being a kid growing too fast for his jeans.

[icerose]

I'm glad that I'm not the only one this has happened to. I had a year or so there where I produced nothing useful, though I produced a great deal of stuff, just because I was growing in leaps and bounds. It was like being a kid growing too fast for his jeans.

It's so frustrating and exciting all at the same time because it means you are moving that much closer to being publishable and frustrating because it feels like nothing was accomplished because you have nothing to show for it.

ETA: Two years ago when it happened I clocked in over 230,000 words written, spread across several partials, but in the end nothing came of it, the frustration pushed me to scripts to take a break on the novel writing and I have since completed ten scripts.

[Birol]

Janet, it sounds to me like you've already made the decision to pack it in and that's your decision; you're the only one that can make it. Look, whatever you want to do -- write, learn to fly, be a potter go live as a monk on a mountain -- we will support you, but we're not going to make you write, we can't make you write, and we're not going to tell you to quit, either. It's entirely your choice to make.

[farfromfearless]

Sounds to me as if you're in the midst of re-evaluating your priorities. If you're at a point where you need acknowledgment for your efforts, then you're obviously not content with just doing it for the sake of doing it anymore. Are you still passionate about it? Would you be content to wake up a year from now and still be unpublished?

[farfromfearless]

How many books have you written?

I have completed five, have several partials that have hit blocks because my writing was improving faster than I could finish them and they need to be seriously revised before I can continue.


I can relate. I scrapped my first couple attempts at a book as my writing imporved and every word before the next seemed trite in comparison. I'm 2/3 of the way to completing my first real manuscript - it's exciting.

[J.S Greer]

But the latter might cause the former, which is how I interpreted the OP.

I think rejection can play with your mind to the point where you have problems writing because you doubt yourself, but I do think that throwing in the towel because youve been rejected isnt the same at all.

thats just the way I took the original post.

[J.S Greer]

Simon, being published isn't the only reason people write, but you have to admit it gets discouraging to keep changing your novel after five years of working on it, and getting absolutely no encouragement. Nobody likes banging their head against a brick wall. We all need recognition in our chosen career. If nobody ever reads your book what is the point of writing it?

Then at that point, you need to look at why it isnt being recieved well. Is it the subject? Is it your form? What is it that makes people tuen away from it?

I agree that its a tougher road to walk, but you should be writing because you love it, and you have stories to tell.

Being published isn't my only justification for carrying on, but after fifteen years I have passed the point of just writing for the sheer joy of it and crave some sort of acknowledgement from the writing world that I do after all have a shred of talent, something to offer.

Agreed. Everyone wants validation in some form. Without seeing the work, I cant really give an opinion as to why you havent recieved any encouragement over the past 15 years, but it has to be something fixable.

Would you ever consider posting somethin in the "Share your work" forum? Plenty of people here might be able to give you some useful feedback.

[tlblack]

I haven't really had writer's block. Until more recently I didn't have the time to do it. How you say? Well... Divorced Mom working two jobs to put my son through college with no help from his Dad. It was worth the lack of writing time and the lack of sleep to see him graduate with honors and a degree in Computer Science. Now... I'm back to writing!

[TsukiRyoko]

I feel the only legitimate excuse for writer's block is A- sickness, or B- stress. Anything else is procrastinating (at least, that's what I tell myself :D )

[JasonChirevas]

Simon, being published isn't the only reason people write, but you have to admit it gets discouraging to keep changing your novel after five years of working on it, and getting absolutely no encouragement. Nobody likes banging their head against a brick wall. We all need recognition in our chosen career. If nobody ever reads your book what is the point of writing it?

I apologize if I've missed something obvious, and are therefore about to make a fool of myself, but do you mean to say you haven't published anything in 15 years or you haven't yet published a novel in 15 years?

As far as I know, it's quite difficult to get a novel published, or even represented, if you can't demonstrate some published short story experience. Whether that's generally true or not, it seems logical to me the best way to achieve a writing career is to build one as you would in any other field.

Is it possible you're just shooting too high without a proper foundation?

-Jason

[aadams73]

As far as I know, it's quite difficult to get a novel published, or even represented, if you can't demonstrate some published short story experience.

Not true in the least.

[FergieC]

I've only hit major writer's block once, and it was after my dad died. I won't go into it, but the year before he died, when he was ill, was just horrible. It was one of those times that changes the whole way you see the world, and your own family and yourself and everything. All those things that in your 20s you're so certain about fall away and it leaves you with nothing to say.

So for that year, and about 18 months-2 years afterwards, I would stare at blank screens or pages, or write rubbish, just trying to work it all out in my head, kind of feeling I should have loads to say but not being able to get any of it out.

Eventually I decided to re-evaluate, gave up a flat and job, buggered off to Canada for a year. I also gave up writing as I decided it must have been an old obsession, and life had changed.

When I gave up writing, that was when the writer's block lifted. I stopped sitting there starting at blank things, trying to force it, trying to be literary, trying to write stuff agents would like, trying to say something interesting and just went and lived for a while, and found I was forever pulling out writing books and writing stuff down that was happening (including how depressing it was not to be writing anymore).

The novel I've just finsished - which is light years better than the last one I finished - came out of that time when I'd "given up".

I don't know what any of that means, if anything. But giving up can be a good thing to do, I guess. If you're fed up with it, give up. If you never miss it, you haven't lost anything. If you do, you'll pick it up again. And if you're sick of revising one novel after 5 years, giving it up is the very best thing you could do. Stick it in a drawer and write something else.

[Celia Cyanide]

Not true in the least.

Does it matter if you have published short stories or not? Does it help you? Does it hurt you if you haven't published any? Just wondering.

[aadams73]

Does it matter if you have published short stories or not? Does it help you? Does it hurt you if you haven't published any? Just wondering.

No it doesn't matter if you have published short stories or not. No, it doesn't hurt you if you haven't published any. Just because you can write a short story, doesn't mean you can write a compelling novel. And vice versa.

(This is just my opinion, of course.)

[Higgins]

Is there ever a time when Writer's Block is justified, such as when you've been getting rejected for fifteen years and one day it just doesn't seem right to keep on writing? Does it make sense to keep writing under these circumstances or should a person just pack it in and go work out or something?

There are times when just thinking over one's writing and occasionally taking a few notes....letting things perculate...say on vacation or something...or when you feel like you have a good set of images that need to collide randomly for a while.

It's no good telling yourself to "write, write, write" if you need to "think, think, think" for a bit...

[FergieC]

Does it matter if you have published short stories or not? Does it help you? Does it hurt you if you haven't published any?

I don't think it's in any way necessary; but I do think it helps, in two ways:

1. You have something to put in a covering letter and CV if you've had publications in recognised places. It demonstrates you're serious, and that you can write.

2. You can learn a lot about the technique of writing from shorter pieces. You can write hundreds of short stories, and if they fail, it doesn't matter, you've wasted a few hours. You can try out tonnes of techniques, learn about creating character etc, figure out how and what you write. A novel limits you to those characters, that story-line and that telling style you started with for a period of a year or more, for 80-120,000 words.

The techniques for short stories and novels are different, of course, so mastering short stories brilliantly isn't necessary if what you want to do is to write novels. They're just good for training on.

[Celia Cyanide]

I think rejection can play with your mind to the point where you have problems writing because you doubt yourself, but I do think that throwing in the towel because youve been rejected isnt the same at all.

In that case, perhaps the original question should be rephrased. Is there ever a time when quitting is justified?

[badducky]

on the rare occasion when i seem to have trouble focusing, i get in my car and drive to a cafe that has no internet connection with a laptop that has no toys on it and i get a cup of coffee and i put my butt in a chair

and i write.

[JeanneTGC]

In that case, perhaps the original question should be rephrased. Is there ever a time when quitting is justified?

When you, personally, find no more joy in the writing itself, in re-reading what you've written, and in the feeling of accomplishment when you complete something. If there is no more joy in it, and you are not financially dependent upon it, why do it?

[janetbellinger]

I meant I hadn't had any acknoledgeable publishing credits in 15 years. I had a whole bunch of travel articles published in the local newspaper, but it was unpaid so doesn't count. I had an article about substitute teaching published in a professional journal, again unpaid so doesn't count, and I had a poem published in an emagazine, again unpaid. I had a novel briefly published with you know who which also doesn't count as it's a vanity press. It is no longer published, due to my own request. Shouldn't I be moving past unpaid article publication after 15 years?

[Birol]

Yep, but, you know, you're the only one who can make that happen, even if it is with a little help from your friends at AW. What can we do for you?

[C.bronco]

Writer's block is justified when there's free beer involved.

[Judg]

I meant I hadn't had any acknoledgeable publishing credits in 15 years. I had a whole bunch of travel articles published in the local newspaper, but it was unpaid so doesn't count. I had an article about substitute teaching published in a professional journal, again unpaid so doesn't count, and I had a poem published in an emagazine, again unpaid. I had a novel briefly published with you know who which also doesn't count as it's a vanity press. It is no longer published, due to my own request. Shouldn't I be moving past unpaid article publication after 15 years?

How many novels have you written, Janet? And I wouldn't consider your credits as "not counting". They are definitely acknowledgeable.

Have you written just the one novel? I definitely like Jim Macdonald's adviced here, as soon as you send your novel (or query letters) off, you immediately start on the next one. It will almost certainly be better. If you've written only the one and are waiting till it sells before you start the next one, I'd reconsider. If that's the situation.

I'm also still not clear on why you're being rejected, or if you know yourself. If you've only sent it out to a few places, that doesn't mean anything at all. From what I've heard, the vast majority of first novels went through a string of rejections. Sometimes a very long one.

So, has your novel ever been critiqued? Have you run it past a group of beta readers, besides your mother and best friend?

I think what you really need to do here is find the sticking point and see what can be done. Maybe your novel is flawed and needs some work. Perhaps you need a better query letter. Perhaps the timing is just bad and you should just write something else. Perhaps you just haven't submitted enough. What do you think the problem is and why do you think so? Can you give the specifics of the situation?

Time to play detective and solve the mystery. Then the solution might be obvious.

[MidnightMuse]

Have you tried to challenge yourself by writing in a genre you've never attempted before? Toss a grenade on your easy chair and see if some sparks don't get your blood pumping and your fingers typing and your writerly mind putting out something left of your usual center.


Perhaps that's not discouragement you're feeling, but some little bit of boredom??

[scarletpeaches]

I don't believe writer's block exists under any circumstances. It's usually just laziness, life getting in the way, or lack of planning. If you can speak the language, you can write it.

Do so.

[janetbellinger]

Maybe it's time to set that one aside and write something else. You'll be able to put everything you've learned towards something new.

I've decided I won't quit writing, but I will set my novel aside for awhile. I'll work on something else. like poetry or short stories. I'll come back to the novel when I feel refreshed and ready to tackle it again. Thanks

[janetbellinger]

I've written five complete books in fifteen years and several partial ones. I've written countless short stories and submitted them and have had them rejected too. I have posted my stuff in SYW and I have incorporated all the suggestions that were made. I'm afraid to post again, afraid to have my fears confirmed by others that it's all a bunch of unimaginative and untalented B.S. Maybe I will though. Maybe somebody can help me make it better.

Then at that point, you need to look at why it isnt being recieved well. Is it the subject? Is it your form? What is it that makes people tuen away from it?

I agree that its a tougher road to walk, but you should be writing because you love it, and you have stories to tell.



Agreed. Everyone wants validation in some form. Without seeing the work, I cant really give an opinion as to why you havent recieved any encouragement over the past 15 years, but it has to be something fixable.

Would you ever consider posting somethin in the "Share your work" forum? Plenty of people here might be able to give you some useful feedback.

[JasonChirevas]

I've written five complete books in fifteen years and several partial ones. I've written countless short stories and submitted them and have had them rejected too. I have posted my stuff in SYW and I have incorporated all the suggestions that were made. I'm afraid to post again, afraid to have my fears confirmed by others that it's all a bunch of unimaginative and untalented B.S. Maybe I will though. Maybe somebody can help me make it better.

The only thing I would add, Janet, is all publications are acknowledgeable. If you publish a short story, even if there's no monetary compensation, it's definitely something you can add to your writing resume and point to in future submissions.

Even if a market can't afford to pay you (and that's often the only reason; they can't, it's not a reflection on you) they're still choosing your work to represent them and that's something to be proud of.

-Jason

[JeanneTGC]

The only thing I would add, Janet, is all publications are acknowledgeable. If you publish a short story, even if there's no monetary compensation, it's definetly something you can add to your writing resume and point to in future submissions.

Even if a market can't afford to pay you (and that's often the only resaon; they can't, it's not a relfection on you) they're still choosing your work to represent them and that's something to be proud of.

-Jason

Exactly. Using McSweeney's online as an example, they're considered the top humor ezine, but they don't pay anything. On the other hand, they reject a lot more than they accept. So, an acceptance in McSweeney's, even though they don't pay, carries a lot of weight.

Your writing credits DO count, just like Jason said. Carry them with pride -- you are actually ahead of many when your prior writing credits are considered.

[Siddow]

I've written five complete books in fifteen years and several partial ones. I've written countless short stories and submitted them and have had them rejected too. I have posted my stuff in SYW and I have incorporated all the suggestions that were made. I'm afraid to post again, afraid to have my fears confirmed by others that it's all a bunch of unimaginative and untalented B.S. Maybe I will though. Maybe somebody can help me make it better.

I see two problems here: you're three books shy of your limit. Do you know how many authors have at least seven trunk novels? And sell their eighth? LOTS OF THEM. Go write something silly, spend a month working on something craptastic.

And the other problem is: incorporating ALL the suggestions. Be picky about who you take advice from (including me, right now).

Nobody's going to hold your feet over the fire if you don't want to continue writing. And I know it's hard to write when you feel crappy about it. Do you have other creative avenues? Knitting, watercolors, sculpture? Might be a good time to explore other ways of expression, at least while you think about your future with writing.

[janetbellinger]

Thanks everybody, for the good suggestions. I'm not going to quit writing, but I will spread myself around a little more, instead of putting all my hopes and dreams and energy into one novel. And I sure have lots of creative outlets. I once painted exclusively for eight months. I have every colour ever discovered in my basement gathering dust now from raw sienna to chromium green. I have acryllic paints, watercolours, glazes and pastels. I even have a couple of unused canvases kicking around in my computer room. Would anybody like to have them? But yeah, Siddow, that's a good idea to just write something preposterous for my own amusement. I need to let go of expectation for awhile. Another thing I'm consoling myself with is the thought that my timing just may be wrong for the current market and that everything changes eventually even style of writing vogues. Maybe I don't need to do anything at all but just wait longer. Thanks again, everybody.

I see two problems here: you're three books shy of your limit. Do you know how many authors have at least seven trunk novels? And sell their eighth? LOTS OF THEM. Go write something silly, spend a month working on something craptastic.

And the other problem is: incorporating ALL the suggestions. Be picky about who you take advice from (including me, right now).

Nobody's going to hold your feet over the fire if you don't want to continue writing. And I know it's hard to write when you feel crappy about it. Do you have other creative avenues? Knitting, watercolors, sculpture? Might be a good time to explore other ways of expression, at least while you think about your future with writing.

[icerose]

The only thing I would add, Janet, is all publications are acknowledgeable. If you publish a short story, even if there's no monetary compensation, it's definitely something you can add to your writing resume and point to in future submissions.


That isn't entirely true. My two PA books don't count for anything and are often a black mark against me. Trust me, you don't want to count those. It shows you are naive toward the workings of the industry if you count something like that.

That goes for most POD presses unless you had respectable sales well into the thousands, the higher the better of course and the same with self published and vanity published books. I think e-books are also in the same standing right now but in the works of changing.

[icerose]

I once painted exclusively for eight months. I have every colour ever discovered in my basement gathering dust now from raw sienna to chromium green. I have acryllic paints, watercolours, glazes and pastels. I even have a couple of unused canvases kicking around in my computer room. Would anybody like to have them?


Ooo, me, pick me!! :hi: I love painting! :D

[Celia Cyanide]

That isn't entirely true. My two PA books don't count for anything and are often a black mark against me.

PA books do not count. They are considered self-published. However, Janet mentioned publication credits that are genuine publication credits. She seems to believe that if you do not get paid, you cannot call your writing published. This is simply not true. Ideally, we would all like to be paid. However, being published in an unpaid market is an accomplishment, nonetheless. I hate to see Janet discount her publication credits. She has more than I do. :)

[icerose]

PA books do not count. They are considered self-published. However, Janet mentioned publication credits that are genuine publication credits. She seems to believe that if you do not get paid, you cannot call your writing published. This is simply not true. Ideally, we would all like to be paid. However, being published in an unpaid market is an accomplishment, nonetheless. I hate to see Janet discount her publication credits. She has more than I do. :)

I realize that but the poster I was quoting said EVERY publication counts. So I was specifying which ones do not count so we don't have some poor PA author doing what I did before I had found this board. That was just painful and I do not wish anyone to repeat it.

[JasonChirevas]

That isn't entirely true. My two PA books don't count for anything and are often a black mark against me. Trust me, you don't want to count those. It shows you are naive toward the workings of the industry if you count something like that.

That goes for most POD presses unless you had respectable sales well into the thousands, the higher the better of course and the same with self published and vanity published books. I think e-books are also in the same standing right now but in the works of changing.

Which is why you didn't see anything about PA or any other vanity press in my post.

Janet, if they pick you, it counts. If you pick them, it doesn't.

Simple as that.

-Jason

[icerose]

Which is why you didn't see anything about PA or any other vanity press in my post.

Janet, if they pick you, it counts. If you pick them, it doesn't.

Simple as that.

-Jason

Except I was picked by PA, people are picked by many POD presses and e-book presses, it's just their selection standards are far below the industry, which I did not know at the time, in fact I was under the impression that going through them would count as a publication and they make you believe that you were selected, that you are special *gag* and so forth. Just because you were "picked" by something doesn't mean it's legit.

I certainly would not have picked them had I known what they truly are and sadly many current authors are still under the impression that they are a step up from being unpublished and that it will be a stepping stone for their career.

[JasonChirevas]

Except I was picked by PA, people are picked by many POD presses and e-book presses, it's just their selection standards are far below the industry, which I did not know at the time, in fact I was under the impression that going through them would count as a publication and they make you believe that you were selected, that you are special *gag* and so forth. Just because you were "picked" by something doesn't mean it's legit.

I certainly would not have picked them had I known what they truly are and sadly many current authors are still under the impression that they are a step up from being unpublished and that it will be a stepping stone for their career.

So, you say you were picked by them, then you acknowledge you weren't.

I'm not looking to round-and-round with you, Ice, and I apologize if I made it seem as though I do. My point was, and is, Janet should consider her past publications, which she's told us were were achieved traditionally, legitimate.

-Jason

[icerose]

So, you say you were picked by them, then you acknowledge you weren't.

I'm not looking to round-and-round with you, Ice, and I apologize if I made it seem as though I do. My point was, and is, Janet should consider her past publications, which she's told us were were achieved traditionally, legitimate.

-Jason

I'm stating it's not such an easy rule of thumb. You can be picked by scamsters. It isn't a favorable pick but you can still be picked.

Every publication is a mutual pick. You pick to submit to them, they pick you to publish. Whether it's PA (And yes they have rejected authors for various reasons) or it's the New York Times. Knowing which publications will count toward the good is important.

And yes, I agree, Janet should count those, but I was making it clear that just because something got printed doesn't mean it counts, which is not in any way pointed toward Janet but to the readers of this post.

[J.S Greer]

I've written five complete books in fifteen years and several partial ones. I've written countless short stories and submitted them and have had them rejected too. I have posted my stuff in SYW and I have incorporated all the suggestions that were made. I'm afraid to post again, afraid to have my fears confirmed by others that it's all a bunch of unimaginative and untalented B.S. Maybe I will though. Maybe somebody can help me make it better.

Well it is what it is, and if youre afraid to find out, then you already have a suspiscion in your head to begin with.

The real question is what is wrong with your work, if anything, and how can you go about fixing it?