New historic fiction author looking for advice

[Matt McKee]

Hi everyone, great forum you have here. I feel like a kid in a candy store. I realize that there are tons of great threads here but, I was wondering if anyone had some advice for a new author of historical fiction:

I have just completed my first novel. It is set in the 11th century in England during the Norman Conquest. The book runs about 650+ pages and it is a chronicle of a young boy's life over the course of twenty years.

I am a professional writer by trade as a consultant writing proposals and RFPs for public and private sector clients. However, the publishing industry is new to me. I gather that the next thing I need is a literary agent if I have any hopes of getting the novel published, but everything I am reading about it gives me the impression that it is a zoo out there!

Does anyone have any suggestions for me that might point me in the direction of something more specific to the historic fiction genre? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Matt

[CrankItTo11]

Once you book is polished, start looking for agents that represent historical fiction. www.agentquery.com is a good place to start.

There is a board here for historical fiction that you may find useful.

Good luck and welcome!

[PeeDee]

Hi Matt! Congratulations on finishing. That's the hardest bit. Or at least, that's one of the hard bits, certainly one of the ones that trip up some writers. I don't have any hugely useful advice for you, at least not until I've had my morning's pot of tea, I just wanted to welcome you to the forums.

Okay, here's my advice. When you start getting rejection letters, don't treat them as a slight against your novel, or your writing. Just treat them as a release slip to send your novel somewhere else.

There. Welcome to the forums, again!

[NeuroFizz]

Welcome, Matt. If you haven't had beta readers give you feedback (outside of family and friends), you may want to post the first chapter or two of your story in Share Your Work. People here give their time and energy to provide honest critiques of the works of fellow AWers. Doing so may give you an idea if your work is ready for submission.

[JerseyGirl1962]

I have just completed my first novel. It is set in the 11th century in England during the Norman Conquest. The book runs about 650+ pages and it is a chronicle of a young boy's life over the course of twenty years.

I am a professional writer by trade as a consultant writing proposals and RFPs for public and private sector clients. However, the publishing industry is new to me. I gather that the next thing I need is a literary agent if I have any hopes of getting the novel published, but everything I am reading about it gives me the impression that it is a zoo out there!

Does anyone have any suggestions for me that might point me in the direction of something more specific to the historic fiction genre? Any advice would be much appreciated.Matt

Matt,

:welcome:

Have you checked out the Historical writing board here?

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=119

Crank It made a good suggestion to use Agent Query. Check and recheck the Bewares and Backgrounds board once you've selected agents you might consider querying.

BTW, have you written your query? You might want to Google the term for examples, or if you have written one but aren't sure if it'll pass muster with an agent, you might want to post it to the Share Your Work board (password: vista), and see what others think of it.

Good luck!

~Nancy

[Meerkat]

Hi Matt,

Not often we can say welcome and congratulations in the same breath!

[Matt McKee]

Within ten minutes I get four welcomes with useful advice? I am overwhelmed! What a great community!

Thank you all so much! I'm working on all your suggestions right this minute (with a cup of tea, too).

[BruceJ]

Hey, Matt!

Welcome to the club and congrats on the novel. I'm interested particularly because I favor historical novels, too. Mine is set in a Biblical setting, so I went with a Christian publishing firm, so I don't think I'll have much of value for you. Your story line sounds great, though. I love English history (lived in Knaresborough, England, for a few years, which is mentioned in the Domesday Book. Cool or what?) and am interested in seeing how you fair. Keep us posted, I'd be interested in a copy.

Welcome again!

[victoriastrauss]

Check out the Historical Novel Society (http://www.historicalnovelsociety.org/)--there's lots of interesting info at their website.

For info on what to watch out for when you're looking for a literary agent, see the Literary Agents (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/agents.html) page of Writer Beware--and don't panic. Yes, there are a lot of lousy agents, but if you know the warning signs (and also the way things SHOULD work) it's really very easy to tell the bad apples from the good ones.

- Victoria

[Christine N.]

See?? Now THAT was a great introductory post! Even a professional can join this board without seeming like a pompus ass.

Welcome, Matt, to the Water Cooler! I hope you enjoy your stay.

[Elektra]

This is just general, but...

Keep painstakingly accurate records of whom you've queried. I didn't my first time round, and it was a mess.

[PeeDee]

This is just general, but...

Keep painstakingly accurate records of whom you've queried. I didn't my first time round, and it was a mess.

That's really good advice, actually. Even if you don't have a detailed Excel spreadsheet set up (which I don't, because I don't understand or even like Excel) then at least have a sheet of paper with it all written down. That's what I do. E-mail submissions and rejections, I keep in a special folder in my g-mail account. You may think you'll remember who you submitted to, two months later, but you may not. This may be less of a problem with novels than short stories, but I've gotten myself into trouble there with short stories, once upon a time.

[janetbellinger]

Hi Matt.

[Matt McKee]

Again, great advice, all.

I have been reading all the web-sites, articles, and threads that you guys have directed me to and I have to admit that I am feeling a lot better about this process.

There are some snakes out there, it seems, but if you look for the scales, you can find your way... I hope.

[Matt McKee]

Hi Matt.

Hi Janet. Nice to see a fellow Ontarian here.

[Appalachian Writer]

Welcome to the cooler. I'm relatively new here, too, but I've gotten some wonderful advice from the fellow writers I've encountered here. If you think your novel is edited to the max and ready to go, prepare yourself! It is a bit of a jungle out there, and there are tigers and traps everywhere! Make sure that you query the right agents, the ones who ARE actually agents and not just people who like to take advantage of the hope you have for your book. When you find a likely candidate, go the Bewares and Background, check on P & E, and ask questions, lots of questions.

Congratulations and Good Luck

[Gillhoughly]

Many writers have websites with a contact address. Scope out a few who have books similar in themes to your own and a short polite e-mail might get you the name of their various agents. If you've read any of their books, a sincere word of appreciation is always welcome.

Then you scope out the agents' sites. If they charge money, refer you to a book doctor (such as their brother-in-law who lives in the garage) run.

Check the names against those listed here: http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors

Make sure your book is complete, beta-read, polished, the works.

Good luck!

[UrsusMinor]

Hi, Matt!

Drop through "Bewares and Background Checks" frequently, as it tends to have a high turnover.

It sounds as though that particular forum would be useful mainly to screen out agents who are bad news, but in fact it is a great way to find good agents--and get background info and tips furnished by AW readers who have dealt with the agent in question.

[BardSkye]

Welcome to AW, Matt. You'll find a wealth of information here no matter what your question might be, and folks here will never steer you wrong.

I believe we have a mutual friend in the Ottawa area. Dogs, swords and tattoos ring any bells?

[Chumplet]

Hey, Matt,

Another newbie here, and from Ontario, too. I've been querying for a year, and I discovered that I had queried prematurely. I thought my book was finished, but after twenty queries, I found that many changes had to be made. The book improved, but the crappy queries were still out there.

Just query a few agents at a time. That way you won't blow the whole wad on a query that might not be doing the job. With a few adjustments, form rejections will turn into nice rejections, then requests, then BINGO!

No, I haven't hit bingo yet, but it's so close I can taste it.

[Carmy]

Welcome Matt.

As NeuroFizz suggested, why not post a chapter or two in Share Your Work. I've researched the 11th Century and I'd love to see your slant on it.

[Toothpaste]

Just wanted to welcome you as another fellow Ontario-ner. Good luck with the hunt!

[Judg]

We should have an Ontario party!

[PeeDee]

Wow, they must have just wired Ontario for the internet. That's got to be pretty neat. Yay for Ontario! Just be careful, Ontarions, those people in Nigeria don't really want to give you money. You're warned!

(I'm sorry. Please don't kill me.)

[Matt McKee]

We should have an Ontario party!

We should. Ontario AWs unite!

Actually, we would probably just hang-out, chat as if we were all old friends, and drink really good beer or smashing Cab-Sauvignons from the Niagra region (PeeDee, you listening? ;) ).

Sounds like a hell of an idea. Let's get all the Canadians together and have real party. Coo-roo-coo-coo, Coo-coo-coo-coo! (Take off, eh?)

I believe we have a mutual friend in the Ottawa area. Dogs, swords and tattoos ring any bells?

Oh the bells are a-ringin' BardSkye. She's kinda hard to miss. She's also hard not to love.

[Judg]

Wow, they must have just wired Ontario for the internet. That's got to be pretty neat. Yay for Ontario! Just be careful, Ontarions, those people in Nigeria don't really want to give you money. You're warned!

(I'm sorry. Please don't kill me.)
LOL! Won't kill you, just set you straight. Canada, by virtue of geographic necessity, has long been a world leader in telecommunications. Not to worry. If you keep working on it, you might catch up. ;)

(I'm sorry. Please don't kill me.)

[endless]

I see you finally made it to the site! Good boy!

Now, sit. Have a cookie.
*pats Matt on head*

You should head over to the 'Hoard. Maybe we'll start a new historic fiction board for you.... that's board, not bored.

I heard something about OMSG having a party in January. Anton's too busy at the restaurant right now.

You should post at least one chapter on this site so that the rest of us can take a boo at your work. There are some real pros here who can really help you sort out some of the more troublesome writing problems -- like the infamous POV -- eh, Bard? ;)

[Chumplet]

Judg, you'd have to drive a few hours to join us for a beer, but I assure you it would be worth it!

[Chumplet]

You too, Matt. I guess it's just me, Janet and Toothpaste.

[BardSkye]

There are some real pros here who can really help you sort out some of the more troublesome writing problems -- like the infamous POV -- eh, Bard? ;)

I have been paying attention to Uncle Jim's advice; if you get a chance, Matt, read through "Learn Writing with Uncle Jim" on the novel forum here. You will never learn as much as congenially anywhere else.

[Novelist in Paradise]

Many agents are looking for good historical fiction, and this era you write about sounds fascinating.

Gillhoughly provides succinct and sound advice.

One obstacle you will undoubtably face early on is the length of your novel. At 650 pages, and assuming the standard 250 words a page, that's approx 160,000 words. Most first novels weigh in at 70 - 100K. Perhaps what you have written could be a multi-volume work.

Good luck, also try to make your own luck, and persevere.

[Bufty]

Great introductory post, Matt. Welcome.

[Matt McKee]

Many agents are looking for good historical fiction, and this era you write about sounds fascinating.

Gillhoughly provides succinct and sound advice.

One obstacle you will undoubtably face early on is the length of your novel. At 650 pages, and assuming the standard 250 words a page, that's approx 160,000 words. Most first novels weigh in at 70 - 100K. Perhaps what you have written could be a multi-volume work.

Good luck, also try to make your own luck, and persevere.

I hope you are right, NiP. I'm looking for a good agent that will market the novel effectively in the right circles.

As for length, after I formatted it along the lines suggested in this forum (Courier New, 250 words per page) the page count ballooned to 871 pages. That's not out of the realm of published works I have seen in the genre (for instance, Jack Whyte regularly ploughs past 750 pages), but at 287,000+ words it's going to be a long read for any prospective agent or publisher.

It is, after all, an epic. :D

[Elektra]

I hope you are right, NiP. I'm looking for a good agent that will market the novel effectively in the right circles.

As for length, after I formatted it along the lines suggested in this forum (Courier New, 250 words per page) the page count ballooned to 871 pages. That's not out of the realm of published works I have seen in the genre (for instance, Jack Whyte regularly ploughs past 750 pages), but at 287,000+ words it's going to be a long read for any prospective agent or publisher.

It is, after all, an epic. :D

Jack Whyte has leeway because he's previously published. In all honesty, you really do need to either break that sucker up into multiple books, or pare it down to about 110,000 (at most)

[Matt McKee]

Jack Whyte has leeway because he's previously published. In all honesty, you really do need to either break that sucker up into multiple books, or pare it down to about 110,000 (at most)

Do you really think its size would be a problem? I think I would have a really hard time paring it down or breaking it up into two or three readable volumes.

Would an agent make it through the whole novel and then suggest breaking it up? Or would they just pass and let its potential as a trilogy or duology go unsaid?

[Elektra]

Do you really think its size would be a problem?

Yes. A huge one. Colossal even (if you'll forgive the pun).

[Matt McKee]

Yes. A huge one. Colossal even (if you'll forgive the pun).
Maybe I should start a new thread on the topic to get everyone (or at least a few people) to weigh in. I had never thought that the size might interfere with the chance of getting published. I always firgured that the meatier the better in historic fiction.

[Elektra]

It's been discussed several times, I think, if you do a search on "word count"

[Elektra]

The problem, as I understand it (which is much less than a lot of people here, so their opinions trump mine) is that a huge books costs a lot more to print than a smaller one, which means a big risk on an as-yet untried author.

P.S.--I'm completely envious of your ability to write that many words. I have the opposite problem, and never write enough.

[Matt McKee]

P.S.--I'm completely envious of your ability to write that many words. I have the opposite problem, and never write enough.

I can't help it. I certainly didn't have the intention to write such a monster. It's just that the story is a chronicle of someone's life through a period of twenty years and I guess it took a while to tell.

To be perfectly honest, I scared silly right now. I'm not sure if it will work broken into parts and if I cut out some of the intricacy of the story, I fear that it will be a much less interesting story.

[Histry Nerd]

Welcome, Matt.

My situation is very similar to yours, but my WIP is about five centuries earlier. I sat down to write the story I was carrying around in my head, and nine months later I did a word count and discovered I had 298K. So instead of gutting the story, I decided to expand it--I identified two logical break-points and split it into a trilogy. So far the first part is the only one I've fleshed out, but I was able to both tighten the writing and expand the story. Biggest trick was to make the book self-contained, which I think I managed.

So I think the point is this: you can improve your chances and the story at the same time. On the other hand, of course, if the first one doesn't sell the second and third are dead in the water.

On the subject of word count, I think the unofficial ceiling for a first historical is about 120K. I have, however, had an executive editor at a major house tell me face-to-face that 110K would be better than 106K, so somebody out there wants longer books.

Hope it helps.
HN