Straight Slog, or Shoot Out of Sequence...?

[JasonChirevas]

Hey, my first question...

I've started my first proper novel, it's been all short stories and a 55,000 word serial to this point. I wondered how many write their novels straight through, Chapter 1 to the end, versus how many skip through the chronolgy of their story, writing the scences strongest in their minds, creating a sort of skeleton on which to hang the rest of the book?

Seems to me it'd be a more natural emotional build writing straight through, but it might be better in terms of focus and story structure to create that skeleton, fill in the gaps, and then address sustained emotional build in revision, since it's all likely to change to some degree anyway.

Thoughts...?

-Jason

[IrishScribbler]

For my WIP, I've created the skeleton of a novel. Now I'm rereading, revising, and filling in the gaps. In my draft, the basic story is there, I just have to flesh it out now.

So far it's working quite nicely, too.

[Simon Woodhouse]

I can't imagine writing a novel in bits and pieces. I'd lose track of where I was, and I'm sure the character development would suffer.

[jess b]

I write straight through, because I rarely have the later scenes (or plot, for that matter) fully fleshed out right from the beginning. But if a bit of dialogue or a detail or an incident that would fit in a later scene occurs to me, I'll jot it down, very roughly, to use when I get there. I find that this helps me keep track of my ideas without committing me to, for example, a particular character's voice before I've had the chance to actually develop that character.

[thepainpasses]

I personally made an outline, the facts I needed to know (names, powers, why the hell I'm even writing the thing), what was going on in the opening, how it'd end, and a bit of what I expected would fall in the middle, and then started writing in a linear fashion, beginning to end.

My ending is the often the whole reason why I'm writing...I am slightly in love with it. I think it's got a really strong climax, and I'm excited. That's why I'm writing it straightforward. Because then I don't find myself writing all the exciting scenes at the get go and then losing focus when it comes to filling in all the scenes I don't like as much. This way I write towards many little goals, little rewards of favorite scenes that keep me plugging away at my writing. I know where I'm going, and I use that to keep me inspired on the road to get there.

[farfromfearless]

To be honest, I found that writing a novel chapter per chapter was really counter-productive for me. I break my work into parts - usually four parts - and just keep on writing until the story is done. That's my first draft right there. When I do the next draft I tear my work apart and break them into chapters seeing as my story has it's essential parts already. It's easier for me to work that way, a few more files to muck around with but it works :D

[PeeDee]

I start at the beginning and I write to the end. I'm capable of jumping around, but I don't enjoy it. When I write serial stories, though, then I can be halfway through episode 2....and then finish episode 4, for whatever reason.

But for novel work, it's beginning to middle to end for me.

[vrabinec]

Interesting thread. I wrote through the first half of the book, stopping to jot down notes as long as five or ten paragraphs when I thought of a scene I really liked so I wouln't lose any of the flavor I had when it hit me. Then I went back and continued on. Right now, I'm skipping some of the scenes in the second half of the novel because they contain characters I'm considering "abandoning" because they don't add significantly to the plot, though they do add to the theme.

If I wasn't at 97,000 with a quarter of the book to go, I would have just lowered my head and plowed through to the end. I like saving the exciting scenes at the end for future typing as a prize for getting through the set up. I don't want to eat my desert before the vegetables. I HAVE to eat my vegetables or the end unravels and loses potency. In short, I use a hybrid.

[Michelle Hoppe]

For me it depends on the story. I've done both. My current WIP is a series of chapters which have not been laced together yet. My last book was written from beginning to end without side-tracking.

[Dave.C.Robinson]

I tend to write in sequence, but when I have multiple plot lines I may rearrange them in the second draft.

[finch]

I jump around. A lot. Because I outline extensively, I know what all the scenes are well in advance -- but they each ripen at different paces, so I write each as it's ready. If I had to write the thing in sequence I don't think I'd ever finish a novel.

[Carrie in PA]

I go straight through, too. It just works best for me. That's not to say I don't end up adding and tweaking, but I like to just go.

[Judg]

I'm mostly going straight through, but if a particular scene comes clear in my mind out of sequence, I go write it. It makes for a wonderful excuse to leave a sink full of dirty dishes. ;)

[Chasing the Horizon]

I jump around. A lot. Because I outline extensively, I know what all the scenes are well in advance -- but they each ripen at different paces, so I write each as it's ready. If I had to write the thing in sequence I don't think I'd ever finish a novel.
Same for me. I tried writing in sequence and got stuck in the second chapter. I finally gave up and wrote a scene I actually liked from the second book in the trilogy. From then on it was 'what do I feel like writing tonight?'. Sunday I worked on the 20th chapter of the third book. Tonight I'm going to work on the 12th chapter of the first book. If a scene isn't interesting enough to ever show up on the 'I feel like writing this tonight' list, then it's not interesting enough to bother writing period.

Of course, writing out of sequence means a lot of places that either overlap or don't quite meet up in the first draft, but that's what the second draft is for. Do have a good outline, though, or you'll end up with nonsense. :D

[JasonChirevas]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I see valid reasons for both approaches. Particularly, I see the merit in using the scenes you really want to write as rewards of a sort. I felt that way about some of the bits in my serial (which is available for your enjoyment at PulpandDagger.com, by the way).

It's going to be beginning-to-end for me overall, I think. But, in the near term, I'm going to skip ahead a step. Chapter 2 is an action sequence but, after several attempts, it needs to be reconceived and restaged. Chapter 3 is due to be dialogue-driven with more emphasis on advancing the plot. I think I'm going to write Chapter 3 while my mind works on restructuring the action set piece of Chapter 2.

-Jason

[Jamesaritchie]

Straight through. I couldn't write a novel any other way if someone offered me a billion dollars.

[ChaosTitan]

I may think about later scenes, and even jot down notes about them, but I write in order. I know from my own experience that characters change and grown and surprise me, the plots often take unexpected twists (just happened the other night, as a matter of fact). It would be a huge waste of effort to write a scene in the thirtieth chapter that has to be deleted because something changed in chapter seven.

[jodiodi]

I write whatever the character tells me to. Then I decide where it goes in the book. I've had scenes I had no clue what to do with until I started filling in between already-written scenes and suddenly seeing, "Oh! This is where this fits!" I don't outline either since I never know what's going to happen until I write it. There may be some problems inherent with that style, but it's worked for me. My trouble is the polishing portion of writing. Once I've seen a story for so long, I'm blind to it.

[NeuroFizz]

Whatever works for you--whatever gets the draft done. For me, it's straight through.

[JasonChirevas]

I know from my own experience that characters change and grown and surprise me, the plots often take unexpected twists (just happened the other night, as a matter of fact). It would be a huge waste of effort to write a scene in the thirtieth chapter that has to be deleted because something changed in chapter seven.

Indeed, this is the greatest reason to write straight through, I think, and the best magic I've experienced writing.

Makes me wonder why I asked the question at all.

Looking for an excuse to avoid putting my head down and plough through, perhaps...

-Jason

[Prawn]

I have a scence list that I am constantly adding to, and I use that as a framework to write the story in order.

[finch]

I know from my own experience that characters change and grown and surprise me, the plots often take unexpected twists (just happened the other night, as a matter of fact). It would be a huge waste of effort to write a scene in the thirtieth chapter that has to be deleted because something changed in chapter seven.

Ah, fair enough, that's a solid critique of the hop-around method and yes, I do have my fair share of removed chapters and scenes scattered around on my filesystem -- if that possibility bothers you, then hop-around is definitely not for you. I don't see those removed elements as wasted, though; invariably they've taught me something new about the characters, or the setting, or defined a scene I can include elsewhere, and often all of the above. Even if I never use the stuff I remove specifically, it's still the sort of work that helps get me to the end.

[IrishScribbler]

...I don't see those removed elements as wasted, though; invariably they've taught me something new about the characters, or the setting, or defined a scene I can include elsewhere, and often all of the above. Even if I never use the stuff I remove specifically, it's still the sort of work that helps get me to the end.

And you could always make a website and include Special Features (http://www.jasperfforde.com/bonustn2.html) (including deleted scenes) from your books!

[Prawn]

A minor nit that I must pick: I have my ms in a single file that I run the word count on every day. That helps me with pacing. I think that would be harder if you had things in different files.

[Chasing the Horizon]

And you could always make a website and include Special Features (http://www.jasperfforde.com/bonustn2.html) (including deleted scenes) from your books!
That's a cool idea! I'm going to have tons of scenes I self deleted or abbreviated for pacing. They are consistent with the story, just kind of 'what happened in between point A & point B'.

Have authors ever republished an extended version of a popular book, including the scenes they had cut for length and pacing? Movies do it all the time, but I've never heard of books coming out with the equivalent of a 'directors cut'. I'd certainly buy a second copy of my favorite books if they included extra scenes.

[Chasing the Horizon]

A minor nit that I must pick: I have my ms in a single file that I run the word count on every day. That helps me with pacing. I think that would be harder if you had things in different files. I keep mine the same way, even though I write out of order. If I had each chapter in a different file, I would have to keep track of all of them, rather than just one big document. I just have all the chapter headings on the document and start writing under the appropriate one. For now I actually have the entire trilogy in a single document because I haven't decided for certain where I'm going to divide them yet. If you have your WIP split into a lot of different files it seems like getting a running word count would be a major pain in the butt.

[Jamesaritchie]

That's a cool idea! I'm going to have tons of scenes I self deleted or abbreviated for pacing. They are consistent with the story, just kind of 'what happened in between point A & point B'.

Have authors ever republished an extended version of a popular book, including the scenes they had cut for length and pacing? Movies do it all the time, but I've never heard of books coming out with the equivalent of a 'directors cut'. I'd certainly buy a second copy of my favorite books if they included extra scenes.

Once he had enough clout, Stephen King had The Stand republished in it's original version. The publisher made King edit the original published version fofor length, and it came in around 300,000 words.

In 1990, I think it was, King had the full uncut version published. It came in around 462,000 words.

[inanna]

Once he had enough clout, Stephen King had The Stand republished in it's original version. The publisher made King edit the original published version fofor length, and it came in around 300,000 words.

In 1990, I think it was, King had the full uncut version published. It came in around 462,000 words.

Which is generally considered to be the better version? (a little off-topic, but I'm curious.)

Topic: I write straight through. Skipping around would drive me nuts, but I do sketch out future scenes in a notebook as they come to me.

[aadams73]

I believe Dean Koontz also rewrote Keys to Midnight in a more recent edition(the original was published under his Leigh Nichols pseudonym). If I recall correctly he mentions in the preface that he left no sentence in the rewrite unaltered. No, I haven't compared the two editions side by side.

Judith Deveraux also added an alternative ending to a later edition of A Knight in Shining Armor. I've never read the original so I can't comment on whether it was better/longer/cooler or not.

Interesting to note that when I watch DVD's and take a peek at the deleted scenes, while some neat stuff gets cut, you can almost always pinpoint why it was dropped from the film. Longer isn't always better.

[Jamesaritchie]

Which is generally considered to be the better version? (a little off-topic, but I'm curious.)

Topic: I write straight through. Skipping around would drive me nuts, but I do sketch out future scenes in a notebook as they come to me.

I like the unedited version better. Some of the scenes King restored gives the ending more meaning, at least to me.

[jodiodi]

I have one running ms but also separate each chapter in its own file while writing. The parts that aren't in order just don't get separated until the right time. I've tried writing straight through and it never really works for me but for others, I admire your ability to do so.

[finch]

Stephen Donaldson released a cut chapter (Gilden Fire) from The Illearth War way, way back when, as a special offering from the Science Fiction Book Club -- the foreward explains why it was cut originally, but he obviously liked it enough that he wanted to see it out there somehow. No idea what the sales on the single chapter were, but... yeah, I bought one. I was 13, whaddya want.

And aye, I'll use those chapters elsewhere -- some of them make it into my world reference, one or two might turn into short stories. Perhaps eventually they'll wind up in a bonus area on the website, but one or two are definitely waiting for the right moment to be re-incorporated into the story itself.

As for the separate files thing... nah. One file. I use styles and my document navigator to steer me around the MS.

[DragonHeart]

I work straight through. It just wouldn't make sense to me otherwise. I have a very linear thought-process, so jumping around just serves as a way to frustrate and confuse me. I learned early on that I need to that or it just falls apart on me.

Every now and then I do get a very clear image of a scene that just sticks and forces me to write it down, and I usually use that as a plot marker. It doesn't bother me as much when I can see exactly where it goes and how it connects as part of the big picture.

~DragonHeart~

[David Wisehart]

For my first novel, Devil's Lair, I had a good outline and hopped around quite a bit.

My book was research-intensive. I often skipped scenes that I needed to research, and jumped to a scene I knew how to write.

That allowed me to stick to my schedule of 5 pages per day.

When I got to the end of the story, I finished my research and backfilled the scenes I had glossed over or skipped entirely.

Worked for me.

[suzymccoy]

On the first draft I jump all over the place. But I use software called Write It Now that keeps everything handy for me. I have to travel a bit doing research, so instead of adding extra miles I write about whatever I am researching at the time. I could be writing in Chapter 2 and Chapter 11 at the same time. On the second draft I try to go straight through. That way I can make the necessary changes so that it flows easily.

[Inkdaub]

I am shooting out of sequence on my current WIP.

[ink wench]

And you could always make a website and include Special Features (including deleted scenes) from your books!
That's both hysterical and a great idea! I don't usually have deleted scenes though, usually I have to add scenes.

Have authors ever republished an extended version of a popular book, including the scenes they had cut for length and pacing? Movies do it all the time, but I've never heard of books coming out with the equivalent of a 'directors cut'. I'd certainly buy a second copy of my favorite books if they included extra scenes.
I could be totally wrong about this, but wasn't The Stand originally abridged? I know the version I own says "unabridged" so I'm just assuming here.

As to original question, I always write straight through. If I get a great idea for a scene down the road or a snippet of good dialogue, I'll write it down for reference but it rarely gets used in the same form.

[sfecphory]

Bits and pieces, then go back during revision and fill in the gaps.

[san_remo_ave]

I write in sequence, generally. I don't mind hopping over a particularly trying scene if I feel it's going to cause me to stall (a new trick that's working well for me).

[Pamster]

That's a cool idea! I'm going to have tons of scenes I self deleted or abbreviated for pacing. They are consistent with the story, just kind of 'what happened in between point A & point B'.

Have authors ever republished an extended version of a popular book, including the scenes they had cut for length and pacing? Movies do it all the time, but I've never heard of books coming out with the equivalent of a 'directors cut'. I'd certainly buy a second copy of my favorite books if they included extra scenes.

That is a cool idea. I write from beginning to end all linear. Just easier for me since I don't like errors in consistancy/continuity. Sometimes I write a synopsis/outline other times I don't. :)