Examples of "tasteful sex scenes"

[Norman D Gutter]

Hello, fellow congregants at the Water Cooler:

After the moved thread about sex in fiction, I thought a different discussion might be in order.

Assuming we want to reach the largest possible audience with a novel, realizing that people have sex and it must be included in any realistic portrayal of life, and realizing there are some who don't want to read a novel containing explicit description of sex acts, what are some examples you could put forth as achieving this end? Copyright laws demand these either be links or fair-use snippets.

My example comes from The Winds of War by Herman Wouk. In describing when Rhoda Henry committed adultery, he says the following.

Maybe we could! Three words, and a life pattern and a character dissolved. The old lady gave them a bedroom, asking no questions. Everything followed: undressing with a stranger, casting aside with her underclothes her modesty and her much-treasured rectitude, yielding to a torrent of novel sensations. To be taken by this large demanding man left her throbbing with animal pleasure. All her thoughts since then went back to that point in time, and there halted.


What's your example?

NDG

[James D. Macdonald]

...realizing that people have sex and it must be included in any realistic portrayal of life...

If and only if it advances the plot, supports the theme, or reveals character.

[Levi]

realizing that people have sex and it must be included in any realistic portrayal of life...

If and only if it advances the plot, supports the theme, or reveals character.

Thanks you for clarifying this. It seems to me that a fiction writer who has religious sensibilities could never become a successful popular novelist if the first statement above were true.

[Norman D Gutter]

If and only if it advances the plot, supports the theme, or reveals character.I agree completely; wish I'd said that. In the example I gave, the adulterous relationship was central to the plot, and carried over even through the entire sequal, War and Remembrance.

[C.bronco]

Thanks you for clarifying this. It seems to me that a fiction writer who has religious sensibilities could never become a successful popular novelist if the first statement above were true.
I don't have sex scenes, but then my novels are ya. Even if I wrote an adult piece, I probably wouldn't have a sex scene. It's not based on principle, it's just that I don't want to (have one in a story, that is). When I see a movie with a sex scene, I look at it as an opportunity to go to the bathroom (which I awlays have to do because I buy the jumbo diet coke).

[RJLeahy]

Hmmm..my example (used on another thread):

"Get me the butter."
--Last Tango in Paris

It's funny, in my scifi adventure, a woman soldier becomes involved with a feline-like animal. I never wrote a scene detailing the...physical nature of their relationship, prefering to leave it purposely ambiguious. My editor (female), was animate about not "teasing" the reader, as she put it. After much back-and-forth on the issue I settled on an 'apres le sexe' dialogue that conveyed the previous action.

I really enjoy great sex in novels. Just can't seem to write them into my own work. :)

[TrainofThought]

My WIP has sex scenes that support the plot and characters. The first sex scene describes an emotional disconnect with one of the characters and the others confirm his love. I asked a beta reader if I should delete it and she said no it’s part of the character development.

I don’t have an example, but Sarah Dunant writes a good sex scene in The Birth of Venus.

[Bravo]

"he measured his ruler inside of her slippery cavern of delight."

[Sean D. Schaffer]

If and only if it advances the plot, supports the theme, or reveals character.


Agreed. If the sex scene has no plot-advancing value, it has no place in the story, IMO.

That said, I think a tasteful sex scene depends mostly upon what you as the author are willing to put into such a scene. I believe if you're not comfortable with the content of the scene, you shouldn't put it in.

[Simon Woodhouse]

I tend to think the consequences of sex are more important than showing the deed itself. I use the before and after approach, leaving the in between for the reader's imagination to fill in. Most adults (or all I would hope), are familiar with the mechanics of sex. Seeing as I don't have anything new to add to the ins and outs of what happens, I prefer not to retread very trodden ground. But I have no problem with other people reading/writing/researching the subject.

"he measured his ruler inside of her slippery cavern of delight."

I prefer – he slipped his banana into her fruit salad.

[icerose]

I tend to think the consequences of sex are more important than showing the deed itself. I use the before and after approach, leaving the in between for the reader's imagination to fill in.
SNIP

I am the same way. Before and after.

[sunandshadow]

"Tasteful sex scene" just seems like a nonsensical concept to me. When I see a nonexplicit sex scene I don't call it that, I call it a cop out. To me if you want to put sex in your book at all you should do it justice by writing about it in loving detail; if you don't want to really write about it, don't write about it at all. I also don't think sex is necessary to every realistic portrayal of life, if your story isn't about romance or rape/sexual abuse, sex is probably irrelevant to the story.

[Chasing the Horizon]

It's funny that we never have these kinds of discussions about battle scenes. When one of my warriors decapitates one of the bad guys, should I show the head fly off or leave it to the readers imagination? Never seems to come up.
*ahem* Anyway....

Unless you're writing erotica any fully described sex scene has to serve some purpose beyond the, well, obvious. Usually sex scenes show character development and relationship development. There's always other ways to show this, though they won't generally be as dramatic as a well written sex scene. It also depends on the genre and the overall feel of the other scenes in your novel. If the entire book is graphic and descriptive then suddenly shies away when a sex scene comes up, I notice, but if the general feel was lighter or more internal then it doesn't jump out at me.

For some reason I've seen more sex scenes that didn't work than I have any other single element of novels. I'm not counting ones where the author 'shut the door', just the ones where the author tried to describe the scene and failed miserably.

If you want to reach the largest possible audience, probably the 'before and after' technique is best, since it's pretty hard for anyone to object to this and you still get to show the majority of the emotional impact.

Nothing ruins a good book faster than a poorly written sex scene, so do what you as an author feel most comfortable with. And remember that no matter what you do, there will always be some people who hate your book. You can't please everyone.

[greglondon]

Assuming we want to reach the largest possible audience with a novel ... and realizing there are some who don't want to read a novel containing explicit description of sex acts

I think you also assume that if you write your novel so as to please the readers who don't like explicit sex scenes that you'll somehow not dissappoint the readers who do. You can't please everyone. Sometimes you just have to write the story that's right for you.

[kirstin_mccormack]

...realizing that people have sex and it must be included in any realistic portrayal of life...


People go to the bathroom as well... must that be included in any realistic portrayal of life?? ;)

[Norman D Gutter]

...to understand the nature of the discussion that has ensued on this thread. I started this because this thread, http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52894, which was originally posted in this forum but moved to TIO, went way off track, was probably not a legitimate question in the first place, and seemed to indicate some interest in the topic. Perhaps I interpreted all that incorrectly.

Or perhaps no discussion about sex can ever stay on track.

I think my request was simple, but I'll restate it and try to focus it more: You decided you want your novel to appeal to people who don't want to read explicit details about sex acts. Some sex is necessary to advance the plot, character development, etc. (thanks Uncle Jim for that clarification). Does anyone have examples of this they can share, preferably from successful published novels? I posted one I think fits the bill. Two others have posted one-liners which, if they are the sum total of the description of the sex scene, are not what I'm after.

So I'll ask again...no, I'll just refer to what I've already written.

NDG

[James D. Macdonald]

Pages 272-274 of my most recent novel (http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/Mistsnow4.htm). Stocked and shelved in bookstores everywhere.

[alleycat]

Not because they're so tasteless, but because they're so badly done, I always snicker at the love scenes written by Ken Follett.

[Jenan Mac]

I've kind of wrestled with the whole question with my recently-finished one. Ultimately, I didn't put one in. My MC is in a long term relationship, has a full-time job, and a two year old. It occurred to me that being too tired to bother was probably more true to character than wild bunny sex anyway.

[NeuroFizz]

Anyone who jumps from a tongue-thrusting kiss to the post-coital cigarette misses an excellent opportunity for developing a character or characters. This can be one of the most intense emotional (and physical) experiences around, and how a character goes about it, reacts to it, and reacts to his/her partner can be used as a writing tool. If, on the other hand, the scene has little to add to the story, skip it.

[ChaosTitan]

It's funny that we never have these kinds of discussions about battle scenes. When one of my warriors decapitates one of the bad guys, should I show the head fly off or leave it to the readers imagination? Never seems to come up.

Start a new thread. I'd be interested in this topic.

Does anyone have examples of this they can share, preferably from successful published novels?

For some reason "Gone With the Wind" always comes to mind, and has been used as an example of hot, yet non-explicit sex scene. I don't have a quote, but it's when a drunken Rhett takes Scarlet somewhat against her will (remember the scene on the stairs from the movie?).

Another tastefully written one (and important to the plot) is from Norma Klein's "It's Okay If You Don't Love Me." It's YA, girl-meets-boy, boy-is-virgin, girl-deflowers-boy. But it was one of my favorite books when I was a teenager. I like the sex scenes, because they are realistic. The girl doesn't orgasm the first time, as most girls don't. They have to work at it before she achieves a climax.

[jodiodi]

People go to the bathroom as well... must that be included in any realistic portrayal of life?? ;)

Well, as a romance writer, I usually include at least one sex scene per book simply to show the characters relationships to one another. Sometimes they're explicit, sometimes implied.

And given that in my fantasy world for the current WIP, sex is an integral part of establishing the marriage union (the heroine describes it as being like becoming addicted to a drug) and once the characters have sex for the first time in this mystical way, they cannot bear to be parted, physically, for several days, the subject of taking care of 'other physical needs' came up. I don't describe it in detail, just something along the lines of:

They spent the rest of the day resting together, talking of the inconsequential things that are so important to lovers. Eventually, however, they had to deal with the decidedly unromantic reality of being biological beings with other urges than simply to mate. Their solution was to maintain as much bodily contact as was physically possible while still accomplishing their tasks. It was actually quite comical and after their first trial-and-error attempts, they found themselves sitting on the floor of the privacy chamber, arms around each other, laughing until both had tears streaming down their faces.

“When my father told me of the seal, he obviously left some things out,” Geoffrey gasped after he managed to catch his breath.

“I guess it would take away a little of the mystique to have to discuss such mundane subjects,” she agreed.

I hope it's 'tasteful'.

[C.bronco]

Anyone who jumps from a tongue-thrusting kiss to the post-coital cigarette misses an excellent opportunity for developing a character or characters. This can be one of the most intense emotional (and physical) experiences around, and how a character goes about it, reacts to it, and reacts to his/her partner can be used as a writing tool. If, on the other hand, the scene has little to add to the story, skip it.
I hadn't thought about it that way. It could be very revealing about a character's mind set, personality, relationship etc etc.

[maestrowork]

People go to the bathroom as well... must that be included in any realistic portrayal of life?? ;)

If that scene advances the plot, develops the characters, and strengthens the themes.

I get frustrated when writers say things like "I won't do this, and I won't do that." To rule out something categorically is to say I am not ready to go all out with the truth, yet. IMHO. It doesn't mean you HAVE to write something you don't want to, but when your story calls for it, you shouldn't shy away from it either.

I'm personally queasy about violence, but in my WIP, there's a lot of violence because it's relevant to my story and characters. If I tell myself, "It makes me uncomfortable and sick, so I'm not going to write it" then I have no reason to write that story at all.

[maestrowork]

Pages 272-274 of my most recent novel (http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/Mistsnow4.htm). Stocked and shelved in bookstores everywhere.

Page 155 of my novel, The Pacific Between. ;)

[maestrowork]

Anyone who jumps from a tongue-thrusting kiss to the post-coital cigarette misses an excellent opportunity for developing a character or characters. This can be one of the most intense emotional (and physical) experiences around, and how a character goes about it, reacts to it, and reacts to his/her partner can be used as a writing tool. If, on the other hand, the scene has little to add to the story, skip it.

Exactly. If you treat the scene as a cheap thrill, or a "hey, he said penis" giggle fest, then there's no reason why the scene should be there. But a well-written sex scene can add so much to the story in terms of the characters and their relationship. It can be emotionally powerful, and why would anyone want to skip an emotionally powerful moment in a story?

[Judg]

"Tasteful sex scene" just seems like a nonsensical concept to me. When I see a nonexplicit sex scene I don't call it that, I call it a cop out. To me if you want to put sex in your book at all you should do it justice by writing about it in loving detail; if you don't want to really write about it, don't write about it at all. I also don't think sex is necessary to every realistic portrayal of life, if your story isn't about romance or rape/sexual abuse, sex is probably irrelevant to the story.
That's just plain silly. A feast might be an important element of a story, but the list of ingredients of each dish, the mechanics of forks going in and out of mouths... Totally unnecessary. The fact that it happened is usually enough. In my WIP, the fact that sex happened is important a couple of times and is very necessary to the understanding of the characters and the plot. Actually watching them do it is completely unnecessary. In one case I have the scene opening with him awake and in the chair, contemplating the sleeping girl in his bed. Describing the sex would have detracted from the previous scene, where he'd just received a one-two emotional punch that left him reeling.

[Novelust]

IMHO, when it comes to the sex scene, many authors forget that they're dealing with two people with distinct personalities having sex, instead of MAN and WOMAN.

I hate that more first times aren't depicted as being terribly tense, or full of laughter (we won't talk about that one - we were laughing with each other, honestly). It's all rippling pecs, and, no offense to the OP, satisfying 'animal pleasure.' Agh.

Not that I'm saying sex scenes shouldn't be sexy, but half the time you feel like you're reading choreography between mannequins.


"Love means never having to say - 'Get off me.'"

[Judg]

...to understand the nature of the discussion that has ensued on this thread. I started this because this thread, http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52894, which was originally posted in this forum but moved to TIO, went way off track, was probably not a legitimate question in the first place, and seemed to indicate some interest in the topic. Perhaps I interpreted all that incorrectly.

Or perhaps no discussion about sex can ever stay on track.

I think my request was simple, but I'll restate it and try to focus it more: You decided you want your novel to appeal to people who don't want to read explicit details about sex acts. Some sex is necessary to advance the plot, character development, etc. (thanks Uncle Jim for that clarification). Does anyone have examples of this they can share, preferably from successful published novels? I posted one I think fits the bill. Two others have posted one-liners which, if they are the sum total of the description of the sex scene, are not what I'm after.

So I'll ask again...no, I'll just refer to what I've already written.

NDG
The problem is not so much one of staying on track as it is one of work. What you're asking for requires that we stop and think, run through all the books we've read in our mind, come up with an appropriate scene, find the book in question, find the scene in question, transcribe it...

It is SO much easier just to emit opinions.

Having said that, I'll mull it over and bring an example next time if I can find one. You're quite right, Wouk was good at that kind of thing.

[ChaosTitan]

The problem is not so much one of staying on track as it is one of work. What you're asking for requires that we stop and think, run through all the books we've read in our mind, come up with an appropriate scene, find the book in question, find the scene in question, transcribe it...

It is SO much easier just to emit opinions.


So meet him halfway. Post the title, the author, and why you thought it was tasteful and useful to the story.

It took me thirty seconds of pondering to come up with the examples I posted. If it takes you longer than that, you probably haven't read any that stuck with you. And that's fine. No one has read everything.

[TrainofThought]

Word of advice, don’t write a sex scene coming home on the train it is an uncomfortable situation. :D

[windyrdg]

Funny you should quote Herman Wouke. He's my all time favorite author. Here's Frieda Winters and Youngblood Hawke's first time:
She never lost her self possession, though her excitement soon more than matched his, and even scared him. (She closes the blinds) ...Tumbling and drowning as he was in ecstasy in the minutes that followed, there was a small nag in his mind that what was happening was a dream, a mistake, a disaster.
Notice Wouke immediately goes to feelings and impact.

In my last book, I had several sex scenes. With the protagonist, they were vivid and blunt. With the antogonist there were more subtle. ie: "She gave herself to him as a feather gives itself to the wind." However, she does recall their lovemaking the next morning in the bathroom and speculates on whether she could be pregnant.

My current WIP, takes place in the first century between two Jews, I took a more Biblical approach. To ease her first time fears, his seduction consists of reciting the Song of Solomon. Recognizing what he's doing, she answers with the responses.

[Novelust]

It's a longer scene, but I won't type all of it. Here's a bit from 'The Gravity of Sunlight' by Rosa Shand:

He stopped her. He said, "Are you sure?" Or he said something of the sort but all she saw was the silent moving of his lips because a fusillade was hammering the roof and the shutters and was machine-gunning the metal car outside and she did not attempt to speak and then his hands moved from her breast up to her neck and one hand held her neck in back and one hand kneaded at her neck in front and he pressed her down and the rainstorm took them up in it, the rainstorm let them think that it dictated everything and even if they screamed they could not hear themselves.

[aruna]

The most emotionally powerful sex scene I have ever read, bar none, is in Hemingway's For Whom the Bell Tolls. There is nothing graphic at all in the scene. They are in a sleeping bag together, pressed against each other, and all he realy talks about are her long legs and how the earth moved. I can only say that the earth moved for me too at those scenes (there were several of them).
But the thing is, it;s not the scene itself that was so moving, It's the SITUATION of the lovers. The danger they are in. The woman's past experience of having been raped, and then finding this sweet, tender, hearbreaking love with a man who they both know may be walking into his death in a few days. It's the desperation of thier situation, the fact that they have so little time left. Even thinking about it now moves me to tears. And there was narry a "thusting manhood" or an "arching naked body"! ;) It was simply - beautiful.

Before I started writing myself I made one observation. So many sex scenes in books seemed to have been placed there simply to show how great the lovers loved each other. By showing how wonderful/powerful the sex was, the author was perhaps trying to reveal character, or something. But if you were to remove the sex scene from the book, there would have been nothing to indicate this amazing love. So the scene is a stand-in for character development. I also observed that this sort of book never moved me emotionally. If it was suposed to be sad, I never cried. In fact, I found the books that moved me most emotionally were those without sex scenes; perhaps because the author had to work harder at making the reader feel with the lovers, get inside their minds and their loves. With a few very skilled writers, the making love scene was a complement to a great love that was already in place, and then I could cry at the sad bits. But I have to say this was very rare.

My own greatest love story is in my first book. I build up the emotional tension by keeping the lovers apart for most of the book; it's a forbidden love between an English young man and an Indian servant girl, a once in a lifetime love, and keeping them apart was pretty easy without having to create these very unconvincing quarrels that I so often read in love stories! They are physically separated for many years; she is married off by her parents, has children, and is eventually widowed. When she meets her true love again, it's in war-torn Singapore. He works as a doctor, she as a nurse, bombs falling all around them, and all they have are stolen minutes together.

And then, at last, they both get a free weekend. They drive out to a seaside cottage. They run towards it laughing, holding hands. He grabs her, lifts her up; she falls silent and he carries her up the stairs and into the house,
I am sure the readers can imagine the rest, I don't have to paint it out. By this time the emotional tension is so great there is just no need for physical details; that would actualy be be an anti-climax. The moment she falls silent in his arms and they just look at each other, we have reached the climax.

This, by the way, is the ONLY time they have sex in the whole story. Which only adds to the emotional power. If they were to be having graphic sex every other day I am pretty sure readers would care much less at the tragedy that befalls them afterwards.

[Chasing the Horizon]

Pages 272-274 of my most recent novel (http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/Mistsnow4.htm). Stocked and shelved in bookstores everywhere.
Yes, read that. I generally don't like non-explicit sex scenes, but that one is really good and really powerful. The rest of the book is very good too.

[Norman D Gutter]

The problem is not so much one of staying on track as it is one of work. What you're asking for requires that we stop and think, run through all the books we've read in our mind, come up with an appropriate scene, find the book in question, find the scene in question, transcribe it...

It is SO much easier just to emit opinions.

I have not heard such wisdom spoken so succinctly since...well, it's been a long time. You are of course correct in this judgment. Thanks for expressing it here.

NDG

[Norman D Gutter]

Funny you should quote Herman Wouke. He's my all time favorite author. Here's Frieda Winters and Youngblood Hawke's first time:
She never lost her self possession, though her excitement soon more than matched his, and even scared him. (She closes the blinds) ...Tumbling and drowning as he was in ecstasy in the minutes that followed, there was a small nag in his mind that what was happening was a dream, a mistake, a disaster.
Notice Wouke immediately goes to feelings and impact.
Nice to know there is another Wouk fan at the Cooler. It's between him and Michener for my favorite author. The good news is I've got a lot of both of them yet to read.

NDG

[sunandshadow]

That's just plain silly. A feast might be an important element of a story, but the list of ingredients of each dish, the mechanics of forks going in and out of mouths... Totally unnecessary. The fact that it happened is usually enough. In my WIP, the fact that sex happened is important a couple of times and is very necessary to the understanding of the characters and the plot. Actually watching them do it is completely unnecessary. In one case I have the scene opening with him awake and in the chair, contemplating the sleeping girl in his bed. Describing the sex would have detracted from the previous scene, where he'd just received a one-two emotional punch that left him reeling.

A feast where you didn't at least describe some of the stronger sensory impressions (smell or taste of some of the dishes, servants bustling about carrying things, social interactions between the diners) would not _feel_ like a feast. But your example isn't what I was talking about - starting with someone in bed after sex has presumably taken place counts as no sex scene in my mind. I was complaining about the ones where the characters are either about to have sex after a few pages building up their thoughts and emotions and the writer shuts the door in the reader's face, or the writer shows the characters having sex in such vague terms that there's no sense of what anything looks or feels or smells/tastes like. Those are the cop-out scenes that are worse than nothing because they make the reader feel cheated and excluded, the very opposite of the immersive, involving experience one wants to be creating for the reader.

[Pamster]

If that scene advances the plot, develops the characters, and strengthens the themes.

I get frustrated when writers say things like "I won't do this, and I won't do that." To rule out something categorically is to say I am not ready to go all out with the truth, yet. IMHO. It doesn't mean you HAVE to write something you don't want to, but when your story calls for it, you shouldn't shy away from it either.

I'm personally queasy about violence, but in my WIP, there's a lot of violence because it's relevant to my story and characters. If I tell myself, "It makes me uncomfortable and sick, so I'm not going to write it" then I have no reason to write that story at all.

You are so right about that maestrowork. I not shying away from something a story calls for. I too try to refrain from violence unless it's to advance the plot or to characterize somebody. It's important to tell a story here, not just use things for shock value or be gratuitously used just because you can write it that way isn't really being true to the story. All things should have meaning.

[Judg]

I have not heard such wisdom spoken so succinctly since...well, it's been a long time. You are of course correct in this judgment. Thanks for expressing it here.

NDGI was mocking myself, but it was nonetheless entirely true.

BTW, if memory serves me, Orson Scott Card did a rather tasteful one in Enchantment. Unfortunately, it was a library book, so I can't quote it.

Sun, I get your point. Personally, though, I'm with Aruna on this one.

[KimJo]

In one of my early attempts at a novel, I wrote a sex scene so vague that when I reread the thing fifteen years later, even I couldn't tell if the characters actually had sex. I rewrote the entire novel, and made it clear in that scene that sex occurred, but not on page.

I'm racking my brain trying to think of a good, tasteful sex scene I've read, and nothing's coming to me... Which means something will pop into my head an hour or two from now when I'm thinking about something else. Meanwhile, I'm going to keep an eye out for some of the books mentioned in this thread, especially Uncle Jim's and Ray's.

[waylander]

If I may say so our own Dragonjax has a lot of tastefully written sex scenes in her novel Hell's Belles

[Shadow_Ferret]

Tasteful sex scene: And then they closed the bedroom door.

Anything else is just smut.





There. That should liven things up in here. :D

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Probably the most tasteful sex scene I've ever read was in a book entitled The Dark Princess by Donna Schmidt. The book was labeled a Paranormal Romance, although it was heavily erotic in content. I can't quote it because the copy I reviewed was a galley copy. I had to destroy it after reviewing the work.

But the scenes in the piece were very tasteful.

However, I did think the work should have been labeled Erotica. The sexual content was quite heavy throughout the piece.

[maestrowork]

There. That should liven things up in here. :D

Are you trying to send this to TIO, too. :)

And p.s
And then they closed the bedroom door.

That's hardly a sex scene, tasteful or not. And they closed the bedroom door and did what? Played chess? Watched TV? Read some books? Called their mothers? Painted the walls?

If we say, just use your imagination, then why not do the whole book that way? "He ran up to the thug with a knife..." And then what happened? Use your imagination. "He got into the car..." And then what happened? Use your imagination. "He went to a feast...." And then what happened? Use your imagination. I bet that's a very exciting book to read.

[Shadow_Ferret]

If we say, just use your imagination, then why not do the whole book that way? "He ran up to the thug with a knife..." And then what happened? Use your imagination. "He got into the car..." And then what happened? Use your imagination. "He went to a feast...." And then what happened? Use your imagination. I bet that's a very exciting book to read.

Actually, I did write a short story like that. Every time the character would come upon a scene of violence, like one time he was going to be beaten up by several bullies, he'd turn to me, the author, and say, "Hey, Mr. Ferret, do you really think we need this gratuitous violence in here?" And I'd agree with him and the next line would be, "He put the garbage can lid down that he had used as a weapon and walked away, the bullies lying unconscious on the ground."

[Bravo]

im still waiting for someone to mention dominique and roark's sex scene in the fountainhead.

[arrowqueen]

A nice row of asterisks always worked for Barbara Cartland.

[blackbird]

I don't know why, but a great example that's coming to my mind right now is the scene between Jack and Ennis in Annie Proulx's "Brokeback Mountain." Yeah, I know, that's not a novel; it's a short story, but still...I'm amazed at how well and tastefully she handled a scene that (even by today's standards) deals with such a controversial matter, yet somehow manages to make it a thing of elevated beauty and tenderness (while at the same time making no bones of the fact that the actual act is rather blunt and...well, to the point). Unfortunately, I have neither a link nor a copy conveniently on hand so I can quote, but I think it's probably one of the best examples ever of a well-written sex scene, straight, gay or otherwise.

[Penguin Queen]

the ins and outs of what happens

Sorry, but that made me laugh. :tongue


when a drunken Rhett takes Scarlet somewhat against her will

I wouldnt call that a tasteful sex scene, I would call that forced sex, or a rape scene. :(

-------------------

As for the original question (although I do baulk at the "tasteful sex" thing) I like this scene in "Written on the Body" (http://www.jeanettewinterson.com/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=33) by Jeanette Winterson.

One night, after a seafood lasagne and a bottle of champagne we made love so vigorously that the Lady's Occasional was driven across the floor by the turbine of our lust. We began by the window and ended by the door. It's well-known that molluscs are aphrodisiac, Casanova ate his mussels raw before pleasuring a lady but then he also believed in the stimulating powers of hot chocolate.

Articulacy of fingers, the language of the deaf and dumb, signing on the body body longing. Who taught you to write in blood on my back? Who taught you to use your hands as branding irons? You have scored your name into my shoulders, referenced me with your mark. The pads of your fingers have become printing blocks, you tap a message on to my skin, tap meaning into my body. Your Morse code interferes with my heart beat. I had a steady heart before I met you, I relied upon it, it had seen active service and grown strong. Now you alter its pace with your own rhythm, you play upon me, drumming me taut.

Written on the body is a secret code only visible in certain lights; the accumulations of a lifetime gather there. In places the palimpsest is so heavily worked that the letters feel like Braille. I like to keep my body rolled up away from prying eyes. Never unfold too much, tell the whole story. I didn't know that Louise would have reading hands. She has translated me into her own book.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

That's just plain silly. A feast might be an important element of a story, but the list of ingredients of each dish, the mechanics of forks going in and out of mouths... Totally unnecessary. The fact that it happened is usually enough.Bwahah! Tell it to the Irish. (http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=1627)

(I was so disappointed when I finally read an English translation of that song. It sounds so regal and romantic, and then it turns out to be a menu!)

[jonereb]

Someone told me they quit reading Water for Elephants because of a sex scene. (For what it's worth.) In another book I read, there was a sex scene that was reasonably tasteful. At the time, it read like just another unnecessary sex scene. Several chapters later, it became central to the story. Which backs up an early post in this thread that says "only if it advances the story."

[Chumplet]

The most emotionally powerful sex scene I have ever read, bar none, is in Hemingway's For Whom the Bell Tolls. There is nothing graphic at all in the scene. They are in a sleeping bag together, pressed against each other, and all he realy talks about are her long legs and how the earth moved. I can only say that the earth moved for me too at those scenes (there were several of them)...

My own greatest love story is in my first book. I build up the emotional tension by keeping the lovers apart for most of the book; it's a forbidden love between an English young man and an Indian servant girl, a once in a lifetime love, and keeping them apart was pretty easy without having to create these very unconvincing quarrels that I so often read in love stories!


You mirrored my intended post. Yes, the sex scene in For Whom The Bell Tolls was moving. But not that one, IMO. When they walked back from their meeting with the deaf man, they stopped in a meadow and made love. If the enemy had appeared at that moment, he would have laid his life down for her. I was crying through the whole thing. Jeez, if I could only wrench that much emotion from a reader.

You mention that your first MS had a love scene that moved you. I had the same experience with mine. The lovers know they shouldn't be together, but since they felt they will never see each other again, they gave in to their passion.

My fourteen year old son laughed when I said I was writing a romance. I walked away from my laptop for a few minutes and he jumped in and started typing the usual throbbing manhood stuff.

I swear he's an alien.

[amber_grosjean]

In one of the books I wrote, searching for a publisher now, I had several scenes where there was sex involved. I've had a couple of people read it for me and give me ideas to improve the story and one reply was to add more scenes. My book to be (hopefully) has some detail to the scenes, very close to the erotic end, and I felt it moved the story along very well. It shows how the character feels about one of the other characters by the way he wants to make her feel good, without giving too much detail for this board. I placed it in the mature adults category for my genre and it ties to the main story line. I gues it really depends on the story itself and who the audience is. I believe a good sex scene should arose the person who is reading it, if it doesn't what's the point?

Amber

[Higgins]

Hello, fellow congregants at the Water Cooler:

After the moved thread about sex in fiction,




I've always like the moments in Providence when the dream narrator tells the would-be narrator of the novel that isn't there yet...to describe some sex:

"Bang on, Clive Langham, get it all down."

Ambitious, but it never happens.

"Has there actually been any sex? I don't smell any?"

And there hasn't been any....

Here is somebody's review of Providence:

Playfully bizarre and thought provoking, 9 December 2002
Author: Howard Schumann (http://www.imdb.com/user/ur0491610/comments) from Vancouver, B.C.

How often do we awake from our dreams in a sweat, not knowing what is real and what is illusion? Especially if we are feverish, our dreams can turn close friends or family members into ogres and hateful creatures (or possibly werewolves) who are bent on our destruction. Such is the case with novelist Clive Langham (John Gielgud), a dying 78 year-old writer who is working on his final novel in the playfully bizarre 1977 English language film, Providence, by Alain Resnais (Hiroshima Mon Amour, Last Year at Marienbad, Muriel). The film depicts how physical and mental anguish can distort our view of reality. A poetic screenplay by playwright David Mercer and powerful performances by John Gielgud, Ellen Burstyn, Dirk Bogarde, Elaine Strich, and David Warner provide strong support.

Clive does not go gentle into that good night. During one horrific night, all the pain of his life and disturbing family relationships boil to the surface. In the novel being played out in the author's mind, his family members, sons Claude (Dirk Bogarde) and Kevin (David Warner), and Claude's wife Sonia (Ellen Burstyn), mysteriously become the main protagonists, assuming roles as prosecutors and defendants, feuding spouses, and extra-marital lovers. As Clive goes deeper into the maelstrom, images become more and more hallucinatory. The denouement is witty, baffling, irritating, and then finally transcendent. To say that the ending is a surprise is a major understatement.

Providence may exasperate you but, if you have patience, it can be a richly rewarding experience. As with all thought provoking and multi-layered films, multiple viewing may be required for full appreciation. Providence was voted the greatest film of the '70s by an international jury of critics and, at Telluride, Norman Mailer called it "the greatest film ever made on the creative process".

[farfromfearless]

Excerpt from "IT Freely".


"Excuse me, Mrs. Jones?" He said. "I'm from the IT department. I'm here to reconfigure your box - I understand you've been having difficulties getting your boss' software extension to work in your drive?"

"Yes, every time I put something in my drive, it experiences a hardware failure," she replied.

"I see. I'll have to test this out - I have a special software extension, would you mind if I install it?" He ask.

"Sure - just be careful, if you install it wrong, it might crap out," she replied, tentative and unsure as the IT man removed the casing on her box and carefully examined the back-end.

"Beautiful - absolutely friggin' beautiful," he hissed.

"Sorry, I've been doing my best to maintain it, but keeping it clean has been hell," Mrs. Jones said as she held his screwdriver, offering a wan smile as he used his pinky to clean away the mess left by a junior technician.

"I think I know what your problem is," he said, using the desk for support as he positioned himself while bending over her box. He reached around and gave it a solid bang, snarling with the effort.

"Oh!" She started, looking around nervously to see if any of her co-workers noticed the sudden noise.

"Sorry, Mrs. Jones - sometimes all it takes is a good bang to get things working right again. But given it's current state, I might have to come back and do this a few more times," he said.

"Well, will my boss be able to install his software extension properly?" Mrs Jones asked.

"It should be fine. But with the amount of traffic that drive of yours gets, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a virus or bugs messing around internally," he replied.

"Just great - I really needed my drive, bug-free, to work this weekend. I've been doing everything from the back-end to the client-side manually and it's a pain in the ass. My boss wants my stuff on his desk Saturday night - what am I supposed to tell him?"

"Tell him to give it a rest - if his software extension really needs to be installed, tell him he's gotta go through IT first - tell him he has to go through me," the man replied.

"Would you really do that? Cover for me I mean," Mrs Jones asked.

"Sure, I'll take care of your box personally. I might have to get a little rough with it, are you okay with that?" He ask.

"Do whatever you want with my box, it's all yours for now," she replied.

"Okay then - you know what, I'll speed things up with extra ram while I'm at it," he said, grinning as he took her box.

Mrs. Jones smiled, delighted that someone had finally come along who understood her difficulties. She thought of the IT man through the rest of the day, recalling their brief encounter which seemed to open a number of possibilities for her. Yes, he's the one I'll deal with from now on, she knew.

[James D. Macdonald]

Here's HapiSofi on How to Write Sex Scenes (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=82911&postcount=621) (from the big "Learn Writing" thread).

[aruna]

Meanwhile, I'm going to keep an eye out for some of the books mentioned in this thread, especially Uncle Jim's and Ray's.

Aw, not mine? You hurt my feelings!:cry:

[James D. Macdonald]

"Beautiful - absolutely friggin' beautiful," he hissed.

"And how," the Muse of Said-Bookisms asked, "does one go about hissing that sentence?"

[Inkdaub]

The worst I've read described the vagina as a 'hungry little nether-mouth'.

The funniest is the scene in The Player where the 'horses snort and whinny'. In fairness this one was supposed to be funny.

One book that had decent sex scenes was The Shadow of the Wind, though. Pretty tasteful and not distracting from the overall story. The sex is part of the plot as well and not just sex for sexy's sake.

[Linda Adams]

I dunno--what's tasteful largely depends on the reader and their own tastes. What's disgusting or offensive to one person may just the right thing or not enough to another person. And that doesn't even factor in who the intended gender of the scenes are. There are some differences in how the genders read, which leads to the possibility to that what is tasteful for one gender is offensive to another.

Many of the examples, though, seem to be of very old books. Still popular, still read, but readers know they're older and have different expectations than what's current. I reread a favorite book that was published in the 1980's. The sex scene was a lot of one liners like, "Then their lips spoke of other things." Frankly, while it was fine for its time, it comes across as somewhat dated now.

Oddly enough, I don't have any sex scenes in mine. We discussed it, and in fact, one of critiquers is expecting it. However, we ran into a different problem. The way the story's structured, there simply isn't a place for it. We could have put one in, but it would have interrupted the flow of the story and actually made readers think the characters were stupid (like a recent book I read where the characters were being persued and stopped along the way. Wasn't anyone worried about getting caught?).

I'd suggest hitting the recently published books in whatever you're writing and start there.

[aruna]

I think we write for readers like ourselves. For readers who like the same kind of books. A writer who is bored by sex scenes canot write one convincingly. And that writer wil certainly find readers who skip those pages.

I have a good writer friend who is a bestselling author in England, with 14 or 15 books under her belt. She's a household name in women's literature. She says she gets many letters form woman who say they are so happy she does not follow the trend for graphic sex scenes. Her sales do not seem to be suffering as a result. That's her readership, and she'd be a fool to disappoint them.

[Robyn]

Well since I write romance novels sex is something that is a definately an issue that crops up. Honestly I don't mind writing them if the scene warrants it. Personally i prefer sexual tension though. The pull between the hero and heroine.. that to me is more of a catch than the actual scenes.

[L.Jones]

I once wrote a very tasteful love scene. It involved a slice of Red Velvet cake.

Get it, tasteful??

Anyway -- Romance reviewers thought that book was merely warm in terms of red hot romance. The Literary Guild gave it a half page and slapped a disclaimer "Warning sexualy explicit content" on it.

The book, if anyone is curious:
The Dixie Belles Guide to Love (Avon 2002) and it was chosen as one of the best genre books of 02 by Library Journal. Lit guild and Library Journal - tasteful enough?

I usually do more tension than pay off and always show consequences becuase, as has been said before, it must advance the story or reveal characters to even belong between the pages.
Luanne Jones
Heathen Girls (Mira Books) - out in mass market paperback Apr 07
The Southern Comforts (Mira Books) - May 07

[Sassenach]

"Tasteful" is one of those meaningless words..especially when it comes to sex scenes. I don't care if they're tasteful. Are they exciting, powerful, emotional, etc.?

[farfromfearless]

"And how," the Muse of Said-Bookisms asked, "does one go about hissing that sentence?"

To be honest, I'm not quite honest. With great difficulty I would imagine. :D

[thethinker42]

I've been hemming and hawing about this for a few days, and finally decided to answer.

My POV of sex scenes is a bit unique, I think: I edited adult videos for a while. If ever there was a profession that required one to break the act of sex down into bits and pieces, choreograph it to perfection, and make the contrived seem natural...well, that would be it. I would become so detached from what I was actually watching that it didn't even "affect" me (which is probably good...spending several HOURS in that, erm, "state" is probably not healthy, even for a woman). My boss thought it was hilarious that I could casually eat a sandwich while I was working; it became something I did like one would work on a car. There was no emotion, no passion. It was all physical. Mechanical.

Since working for that company, my manner of writing sex scenes has changed dramatically. I used to be VERY explicit, spelling out every detail, every movement, etc. After working for the company, I found that scenes like that bring me back into the editor's chair: I catch myself rolling my eyes and thinking, "oh for the love of God, if this was a porno, the audience would either be laughing out loud or falling asleep right now." The more technical (ie., the more anatomical detail) in a scene, the less emotional.

Now, I'm all for subtlety. I make it very clear what's going on, but I don't have to get all "tab A into slot B" technical to get the point across. If my characters are having sex, there's a reason for it, and chances are that reason has more to do with something emotional than how much her bosom can heave before she passes out from hyperventilating. I want the power of the scene to rest in the EMOTIONAL aspects: the emotional release of a couple who've FINALLY ended up in bed after months of being wishy-washy about each other, the hunger of a couple who've been separated for a long time, etc.

One of the best sex scenes I've ever read is in "Poison Study" by Maria Snyder. It's ONE PARAGRAPH. The emotional release, the passion, etc., is absolutely incredible. And not ONCE does she mention what this or that body part is doing. My mind kept going back to that scene for days after I read it.

Bottom line: tell me what the characters are feeling, hint about what they're doing. My mind can put the rest together without giving me enough detail to give me flashbacks to my previous occupation. LOL

[thethinker42]

The worst I've read described the vagina as a 'hungry little nether-mouth'.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Omg...You owe me a new laptop. *wiping drink off of screen, keyboard, and nearby cat*

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[KimJo]

Aruna, of course yours too, and any other AWers I didn't think of. I didn't mean to make you cry... :Hug2:

[maestrowork]

Wait, but I thought Aruna didn't write sex scenes. ;)

[aruna]

I want the power of the scene to rest in the EMOTIONAL aspects: the emotional release of a couple who've FINALLY ended up in bed after months of being wishy-washy about each other, the hunger of a couple who've been separated for a long time, etc.
........

Bottom line: tell me what the characters are feeling, hint about what they're doing. My mind can put the rest together without giving me enough detail to give me flashbacks to my previous occupation. LOL

I couldn't agree more! Wishing you a full recovery from your time in the editor's chair!
I personally think that as far as sex in novels is concerned, less is more. The less phyiscal descriptions, the more emotional punch.

[aruna]

Wait, but I thought Aruna didn't write sex scenes. ;)

You should read me in my other nom de plume....;)

[thethinker42]

I couldn't agree more! Wishing you a full recovery from your time in the editor's chair!
I personally think that as far as sex in novels is concerned, less is more. The less phyiscal descriptions, the more emotional punch.

No worries, I've recovered. LOL It' s not that bad, really, it just cracks me up when I read sex scenes that sound like they were written looking over my shoulder as an editor. LOL

[maestrowork]

I couldn't agree more! Wishing you a full recovery from your time in the editor's chair!
I personally think that as far as sex in novels is concerned, less is more. The less phyiscal descriptions, the more emotional punch.

That I agree. A great writer should be able to choose just the right words to convey a whole gamut of emotion, especially during something as potentially significant as sex. There's no need to detail every single nut and bolt and screw and nail and cog and lever. You don't need to see every water droplet to feel the majesty of the ocean.

That said, I still think if the scene calls for it, there's no reason to NOT do it, other than one's sheepishness. It's just a matter of how you're going to do it. It's a matter of show vs. tell -- what is the balance, and how much is too much or how little is too little. A confident writer would have no problem writing a terrific sex scene.

[Inkdaub]

William Gibson wrote a sex scene that involves a mousy fan giving a Christian rock star oral sex in a theater. It wasn't tasteful at all but it was proper for the scene and expanded both characters involved.

[Inkdaub]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Omg...You owe me a new laptop. *wiping drink off of screen, keyboard, and nearby cat*

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yeah I kept rereading the line to be sure that's actually what it said. I don't remember the book but that description is immortal.

[Matt McKee]

I'm not sure what is meant by tasteful. My novel has some pretty steamy scenes in it and that is, in part, due to a conversation with my wife. The book takes place in England during the 11th Century and focusses on knights and their subsequent profession of warfare. Many of the battle scenes are gritty and realistic with much blood, terror, and pain. My wife argued that that kind of visceral stuff is the opposite end of the spectrum from heavy duty love scenes and was dismayed that the former was conventionally perfectly acceptable and the latter was something many were squeamish about. She demanded that if I were to have realistic and horrific battle scenes, then I should have steamy, realistic sex scenes.

After some comtemplation, I realized she was right. So I took the same approach with the love scenes. I don't think they would be considered "tasteful" any more than my depictions of two men trying to kill each other with swords would.

[scarletpeaches]

"He whacked his throbbing manhood up her beef curtains and wiggled it about until it was sick."

[Hillgate]

"He whacked his throbbing manhood up her beef curtains and wiggled it about until it was sick."

I like your style!:D

[maestrowork]

Beef? Now that's tasty, not just tasteful. Medium rare, please.

[Hillgate]

Not raw with whipped cream? ;)

[scarletpeaches]

Anyway...who wants sex to be TASTEFUL?! :D

Seriously though, when writing, I like to 'leave them at the bedroom door'. You know they're doing it, I know they're doing it, let's just leave them alone to 'do it'.

That said, in my most recent masterpiece, I went into graphic (emailing of said scene comes at a price, my people) detail with one scene in particular where my heroine experiences her first...well...you know. ;) The scene was more about her letting go of her sexual hang-ups than the sex itself, if that makes sense, but...yeah. Writing that scene was FUN.

[Norman D Gutter]

Anyway...who wants sex to be TASTEFUL?!
Millions of potential readers.

[scarletpeaches]

You do realise I was joking, right?

(But not about the beef curtains).

[Hillgate]

I never joke about beef curtains. After all, it's a sensitive subject.

[maestrowork]

I'd say tender.

[Hillgate]

Well it is now

[Akuma]

I'm very ashamed for humanity right now.

[Norman D Gutter]

You do realise I was joking, right?

(But not about the beef curtains).
No, I didn't. I guess I'm a bit slow. Thank you for clarifying.

NDG