Types of Westerns

[Cav Guy]

Since we've had a question or two about what makes a novel a Western in the Western SYW area, I thought I'd toss out some ideas. This is paraphrased from Matt Braun's book on writing Westerns, so it ain't original to me.

Traditional Western: This is the novel that relies heavily on the mythology of the West (outlaws in black hats, high noon showdowns, etc.). Braun puts their average length at 70k or so.

Historical Western: This novel focuses more on historical events in the West and can run about 170k. Terry Johnstone was known for his historicals more than anything else.

Novel of the West: This uses the West as a setting, but isn't necessarily a Western. Lonesome Dove is considered one of these, but there are also novels that use the West as a more contemporary setting (mysteries and so on).

Series Western: I don't know if I agree with Braun breaking this out on its own, since series westerns often fall into the other categories with no issues at all.

And of course there are Adult, YA, and Short Story groupings for Westerns as well. So we have at least 7 sorts of Westerns that can be cussed and discussed.

[davids]

Thanks for the clarification Cav-seems I know now where to put that Novel of the West-better pick up a western-one or two of the above and read read read-maybe I will try Lonesome Dove to get a clear picture-thanks Dave

[dpaterso]

Just asking -- because it's a dumb question, and I'm good at asking those -- where does the "Spaghetti Western" type story with its antihero protag fit, or is this a category of its own? I mean the novels, not just the films.

-Derek

[Cav Guy]

Just asking -- because it's a dumb question, and I'm good at asking those -- where does the "Spaghetti Western" type story with its antihero protag fit, or is this a category of its own? I mean the novels, not just the films.

-Derek

These would to me be traditional westerns in the sense that they use the Western mythology. They have a different take on it to be sure, but it's still using the mythological background.

[JeanneTGC]

Cav, this helped a lot, thanks.

Question about Historial Westerns, in case you or anyone else knows -- how high is the percentage of real people versus created characters in a Historical Western?

I'm asking because I want to have all the options possible when I go out to agents, and while I feel my book falls into Novel of the West, it could fit into Historical Western as well, depending.

[Cav Guy]

Historicals can use actual figures, but don't have to have tons of them. Braun makes the distinction between the Historical Western and the Traditional Western by stating that the historical stays true to the history of the West, while the Traditional focuses more on what he calls the mythology of the West (what we might consider the pop culture version).

Some authors of historical westerns use many actual figures (Braun himself and Terry Johnston, to name two), but nothing says you have to. A lot of the distinction depends on how firmly your novel is grounded in the history. I think Lonesome Dove fit into novel of the West because McMurty didn't heavily ground it in a specific period. Braun also floats here, because he defines the novel of the West as being more literary than the typical oater.

So, short answer: I don't think there's a firm percentage of historical versus created characters in an historical western.

[JeanneTGC]

Hmmm, okay.

I use quite a number of real people as supporting characters (and one day if someone wants to hear misery, remind me to tell you about my "little" timeline problem that caused a full rewrite), ensuring that they are or could be where I say they are at the time.

So, it sounds like I could market as either Novel of the Old West or Historical Western, depending on what the agent wanted?

[Cav Guy]

That you could, Jeanne. I guess a great deal of it depends on how you personally view your novel. To me a novel of the West is a novel that happens to use the West as its setting. The historical Western focuses more on the setting itself and possibly wouldn't work at all if the West was taken away from the storyline. One example Braun used for the Historical Western is A.B. Guthrie, if that's any help.

[JeanneTGC]

Oooh, that's a really helpful comparison, Cav. Thanks much.

Have to go ponder now...marketing's a touchy thing, after all...

[Vanatru]

That you could, Jeanne. I guess a great deal of it depends on how you personally view your novel. To me a novel of the West is a novel that happens to use the West as its setting. The historical Western focuses more on the setting itself and possibly wouldn't work at all if the West was taken away from the storyline. One example Braun used for the Historical Western is A.B. Guthrie, if that's any help.

Interesting.

So, novels about the Civil War, such as the campaigns in New Mexico, Texas, and Arizona would be westerns? Or historical novels?

Where as the same novels set on the east coast wouldn't be westerns, but historical fiction?

-Bill

[Cav Guy]

They could be either. Terry Johnston gets shelved as either Western or Historical Fiction with his Plainsman series. I tend to class them as Westerns, and would do so with a novel about the Civil War in the West provided that it did not focus on Glorieta Pass or Confederate activities (military or otherwise).

This is, of course, my opinion. I think stuff gets shelved as Historical because it's a more "in" genre these days.

[Jamesaritchie]

I think Lonesome Dove fit into novel of the West because McMurty didn't heavily ground it in a specific period. Braun also floats here, because he defines the novel of the West as being more literary than the typical oater.
.

I think McMurtry fit Lonesome Dove into a very specific time period, but he did it by events, rather than by placing dates in the novel. For me, it's a novel of the west, rather than a traditional western, because I don't think it really does fit the mythology of the west. As nearly as I can tell, darned near every last bit of action that takes place in Lonesome Dove actually happened in the real west. They didn't happen to the same people of course, but McMurtry's character stand in for real people and real events.

Even when Call hauls Gus's body that long way back to Texas, it's real history. It didn't happen to Call and Gus, but it did happen to two real, historical figures.

McMurtry took real events, portrayed them in a realistic manner, almost exactly as they really happened, gave us real characters almost identical to their historic counterparts, and built a novel around them. The traditional western almost never does this.

This was a novel that could have been written about any time period, with only the events themselves changing. I think this is why so many readers who do not usually buy westerns bought this novel, and why it won a Pulitzer.

[dub]

Almost one month to the day since this thread has been active. Let me ask this - ever consider westerns with Christian slant? I see no westerns on the Christian novel bookshelves, and just have a feeling that there might be a niche market there. Now, before y'all leave me lookin up a tree, understand that I know that the language and life of the 1820-1890 cowboy was less than pure, thus making a Christian western almost an oxymoron.

dub

[Cav Guy]

I'm sure such a thing could be done. I'm not the one to write it, but I can think of a number of ways this could be done.

[dub]

I have a whole series of stories in that sub genre, I think I may package them and see if a publisher will share my thoughts. My agent looks down her nose at westerns, so I might to a better job of selling it in the CBA.

Any more thoughts would be appreciated.

[Alien Enigma]

I wrote a Christian/Western story called The Devil's Caravan. It's available on Amazon. Amazon Shorts published it so there is a demand for it. The villains are Satan and his demons. An Angel appears in the story. It's about a cowboy who blasphemies the Holy Spirit in the Wild West. My advice would be to pursue it.

[dub]

Thanks, I am going to take this to the next step. My entire manuscript is set along a little creek in southwestern Kansas (near Liberal) - a ton of research for a little story.

[JeanneTGC]

Considering how important religion was in the time period, and also considering the very healthy Christian market today, I would also chime in with a "go for it".