POV question.

[Dancre]

Is the bold sentence slipping out of the character's POV?

And the girl who had the medallion. Jezebel wanted that piece of cheap jewelry more than the prince. He frowned and picked at his front teeth. Now why did the witch want it? And where did it come from? He had asked a few people in the kingdom, those who were considered wise. But no one had an answer. It was one of the witch’s secrets.

How about:

He sneered at her and said, "You'll die here."

Or He smiled. She looked lovely wearing the pink dress.

Now all of these are from the speaker's POV. So did I just slip from his POV? Thanks to all.

kim

[weatherfield]

I'd be inclined to say that all these examples are still in your character's POV. You're describing things that we generally think of as visual, but he still knows if he's smiling or sneering, because it's something he's actively doing. To me, it's similar to describing something he does with his hands. Now, if you said his face was wan and pale, I'd take issue with it, unless he's seeing his own reflection and taking note of something about himself (sidenote: that almost always drives me nuts, unless it's staggeringly well done).

Anyway, based on these examples, I don't see a point of view violation. Other people might chime in, but it looks fine to me :)

[scarletpeaches]

...Jezebel wanted that piece of cheap jewelry more than the prince...

Unless Jezebel is the name of your POV character, which I doubt, as you said the character was a 'he', you slipped out of his point of view here. How does he know what Jezebel wants?

Even if Jezebel tells him she wants something, he has no way of knowing whether or not she really does. Only Jezebel herself can tell what she truly wants inside.

[weatherfield]

Oh. Yeah. Well, I didn't even think about the Jezebel issue--I just assumed he was indirectly mulling over something another character told him. If that's not the case, then that would indeed be a pretty big point of view problem.

[Dancre]

Unless Jezebel is the name of your POV character, which I doubt, as you said the character was a 'he', you slipped out of his point of view here. How does he know what Jezebel wants?

Even if Jezebel tells him she wants something, he has no way of knowing whether or not she really does. Only Jezebel herself can tell what she truly wants inside.


mmm . . . never thought of that. Good catch, peaches!!

kim

[Cathy C]

I agree. I'd also mention that the sentence you highlighted has one more issue that should be addressed. It's probably what nagged at you to begin with. To say, He frowned and picked at his front teeth implies that he can SEE himself frown. Unless he's watching himself in a mirror, he can't. He can FEEL himself frown, but it's tough to both frown (which generally requires the lips be touching) and pick his own teeth (which generally requires the lips be open.) I'd probably change it to something like:

He felt a frown pull at his lips and began to pick his teeth so she didn't notice he was suspicious.

Or something like that. Whatever will convey to the reader that he's aware of his own actions. Deep POV requires a certain amount of introspection. The more aware the protagonist is of himself, the better detail he'll give about OTHERS he's imparting information about.

Hope that helps. :)

[scarletpeaches]

I've written about people frowning before. And we're constantly warned against 'filtering' feelings, something which distances the reader from the story. "He could feel," "He could hear," "He could see."

We don't need to add, "He could feel himself frown."

After all, if you frown, you know about it. It's obvious it's something you feel, and cannot see, but I don't think describing someone frowning is jumping out of their POV at all.

Plus, I just frowned and picked my teeth to see if it was possible, and I managed it. Frowning doesn't require the lips to be touching at all. I mean...what??? Teeth-picking is in the mouth and frowning is in the forehead.

[Dancre]

I've written about people frowning before. And we're constantly warned against 'filtering' feelings, something which distances the reader from the story. "He could feel," "He could hear," "He could see."

We don't need to add, "He could feel himself frown."

After all, if you frown, you know about it. It's obvious it's something you feel, and cannot see, but I don't think describing someone frowning is jumping out of their POV at all.

Plus, I just frowned and picked my teeth to see if it was possible, and I managed it. Frowning doesn't require the lips to be touching at all. I mean...what??? Teeth-picking is in the mouth and frowning is in the forehead.

Ah, that's right, peaches. Frowning is in the forehead, the way the brows come together and lines form on the forehead. And I've also heard the advice about not filtering feelings, but let folks figure it out for themselves. I also frown and pick my teeth. It's a bad habit, I'm afraid, that and chewing my nails. My grandmother once told me all those nail pieces go down into your stomach. ACH!!

Anyway, peaches, could you please look at my story and give me a bit of critique? Here's the link: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56687 thanks so much!!!! And thank you all for your wonderful advice. I appreciate all the help I can get!!!

kim

[Cathy C]

I've written about people frowning before. And we're constantly warned against 'filtering' feelings, something which distances the reader from the story. "He could feel," "He could hear," "He could see."

We don't need to add, "He could feel himself frown."

After all, if you frown, you know about it. It's obvious it's something you feel, and cannot see, but I don't think describing someone frowning is jumping out of their POV at all.

Plus, I just frowned and picked my teeth to see if it was possible, and I managed it. Frowning doesn't require the lips to be touching at all. I mean...what??? Teeth-picking is in the mouth and frowning is in the forehead.

We'll have to agree to disagree, I'm afraid. I've never heard of a warning about this, and find it MORE distracting in a book to have a POV character state that he frowned than to feel the sensation of it. And while frowning does involve the brow, it involves the lips too (at least in my characters.) Even in smilies, the mouth drops at the edges when anger is expressed ( :mad: ).

Still, to each his (or her) own. :Shrug:

[weatherfield]

'filtering' feelings . . . distances the reader from the story. "He could feel," "He could hear," "He could see."

I'm in full agreement with this. Filtering is something that will often yank me right out of the narrative. Like pretty much everything else when it comes to writing, I think there are situations where it can fit, and it does depend on the style/story/etc. Generally though, when I come across this kind of thing, it tends to make me feel a bit alienated from what's going on in the scene.

[Shady Lane]

I'm in full agreement with this. Filtering is something that will often yank me right out of the narrative. Like pretty much everything else when it comes to writing, I think there are situations where it can fit, and it does depend on the style/story/etc. Generally though, when I come across this kind of thing, it tends to make me feel a bit alienated from what's going on in the scene.

I completely agree. Seems very disconnected.

[Jimmer]

To me, the only time filtering feelings makes sense is when the author's intended emphasis is actually on the ability to feel. In other words, you might say he could feel his face frowning if your character had been paralyzed (for example) and just now could feel his face. Then it makes sense because the filtering isn't really even filtering. The author is indicating a return of sensations. But to say a character could feel his face frown to avoid an alleged POV glitch is jolting and detached in my view as a writer and as a reader. I don't have to see my face to know I'm frowning. One last item, I understand that a part of frowning is in facial lines, but I still think of a frown as primarily an oral expression, and so I think picking teeth while frowning is pushing it. An extremely minor matter though however you see it.