Old West Reference

[Mr. Jinx]

Okay, here is my attempt at doing more than being just a lurker...

I was wondering what other folks are using as reference materials when writing old west manuscripts. In particular I was thinking of those sources that give flavor to the language and culture of the period.

The list of general sources I have been using:

Western Words: A Dictionary of the Old West - by Ramon F. Adams
I seem to go back to this one a lot.

Cowboy Lingo – Again by Ramon F. Adams
A good read and it has helped me find actual terms since the book is broken down into topical chapters. I have found it works well in conjunction with his dictionary.

How to Write Western Novels – by Matt Braun
I liked this book in general, especially for some its genre specific discussions like the use of dialect when writing dialog.

Every Day life in the Wild West – by Candy Moulton
I have found it pretty useful as a place to start.

Every Day life in the Civil War – by Michael Varhola
This one in particular is a favorite but the manuscript I am working on is just after the Civil War so I guess that figures.

Lot of different books on the periods firearms, horses and wildlife and two on what it was like to be growing up in the old west.

What are your favorites?

[Cav Guy]

The Time-Life series "The Old West" is a great starting point for just about any focused research. I tend to favor Frontier Army subjects, so I use a number of books that may not make the normal list.

Anything by Robert Utley is outstanding for the Frontier Army. 40 Miles a Day by Don Rickey is unsurpassed, and Life and Manners in the Frontier Army is another great source for the era.

Short stories by Frederick Remington and Charles Russell are almost mandatory, since both artists were contemporaries of the period and wrote with a very true ear. The same can be said for some of Mark Twain's work. There's also a series out dealing with the Indian Wars that compiles primary sources for various campaigns that's expensive but worth it if you want to see what was being written at the time about various events.

These are just starters, though.

[alleycat]

I have some of the ones you listed, Mr. Jinx, and a few others on everyday life in the west and period firearms.

One of the more recent books I've gotten is Single Action Sixguns by John Taffin. It's a large book with hundreds of photos which covers both vintage and modern sixguns.

[Puma]

Very good thread idea, Mr. Jinx and good sources listed. CavGuy, Glad to see you mention the Time Life series - I have it too.

This may seem a little off the wall, but I promise it isn't. I use Google Earth to find out about the lay of land - where there are tributary waterways, canyons, little bumps of land and also to look at the current groundcover - it helps to know whether you're talking about a sage covered area or one with aspens or pines. And looking at towns via Google Earth or mapquest helps know where the railroads went through, where the stockyards are, and where the shootouts probably occurred. I know, I'm weird, but I like to try to make things as close to probable reality as I can. Puma

[Peggy]

I don't write westerns, but I do have an interest in 19th century American history. Some of the links I've collected:

Harper's Weekly on the American West (http://thewest.harpweek.com/) (scans of stories and illustrations first published in 19th century editions of the magazine)

American Memory (Library of Congress) Sites:
Maps Collections (http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/browse/ListSome.php?category=Maps) , including the excellent collection of Railroad Maps (http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/rrhtml/rrhome.html)
American Expansion collection (http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/browse/ListSome.php?category=Immigration,+American%20Expa nsion)
History of the American West in photographs (http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/award97/codhtml/hawphome.html)
Prairie Settlement (http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/award98/nbhihtml/pshome.html)

Also check Google books (http://books.google.com/), Making of America Books (http://www.hti.umich.edu/m/moa/), and The Nineteenth Century in Print (http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/ndlpcoop/moahtml/snchome.html) for 19th century publications about the area you are using as a setting. Here are a few I bookmarked :
The undeveloped West, or, five years in the territories (1873) (http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=moa;c=moajrnl;cc=moa;g=moagrp;xc=1;q1=travel %20west;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=AFK4386.0001 .001)
Story of the Wild West and Camp-fire Chats, by Buffalo Bill, (Hon. W. F. Cody.) (http://books.google.com/books?vid=0a4LiKRvLn77_KTLdW&id=f3hFTwLVwv8C&dq=cowboys+west&as_brr=1) (1888)
A-Saddle in the Wild West (http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC70336923&id=Hs2jZsuWTqUC&dq=travel+in+the+west&as_brr=1) (1879)

The late 1800s were a time of settlement and travel, and there are lots of contemporary books with train schedules, descriptions of the local geology, fauna and flora, books touting new towns and other bits for the traveler to know.

[Cav Guy]

Very good thread idea, Mr. Jinx and good sources listed. CavGuy, Glad to see you mention the Time Life series - I have it too.

This may seem a little off the wall, but I promise it isn't. I use Google Earth to find out about the lay of land - where there are tributary waterways, canyons, little bumps of land and also to look at the current groundcover - it helps to know whether you're talking about a sage covered area or one with aspens or pines. And looking at towns via Google Earth or mapquest helps know where the railroads went through, where the stockyards are, and where the shootouts probably occurred. I know, I'm weird, but I like to try to make things as close to probable reality as I can. Puma

You have to be *very* careful with these, since the terrain of the West (especially the flora) has changed drastically in some places since the 1800s. Areas that were once heavily-timbered may no longer have much in the way of growth (like the area around the Comstock Lode in Nevada, for one example, which was almost deforested to provide timbers for the deeprock mines). The various hydro-electric and water conservation projects (not to mention basic irrigation) in the 1930s also changed the look of the land forever.

One really good source (and you can get them if you use interlibrary loan effectively) are the various survey reports done by Government expeditions over the years. Those guys recorded *everything* they saw, and often produced very good maps to go with them (West Point was, after all, an engineering school and the top graduates always went into the Corps of Engineers). There are also a variety of historical atlases out there (the one for Arizona is quite good, and the general "Historical Atlas of the American West" is another nice starting point), and making good use of them combined with Google-style images might help complete the picture.

[Kentuk]

One of the neat things about writing westerns is the accessibility of primary sources. Literacy was common and there is no language barrier.


You can find the most facinating books for sale in park visitor centers. This by the way is one niche where self publishing might be worth while.

[JeanneTGC]

One thing to remember is to have more than one source. I've found out the hard way that not all accounts agree. I tend to verify a fact, date, etc., with three sources -- if they all agree, great. If not, I may go to another source or two, or I may just go "no one was sure" and do what I want.

Also, while newer books are good in some ways, I look for older and out of print ones as well, because you get a different flavor, and sometimes a more accurate depiction of what the average mindset was.

[Cav Guy]

One thing to remember is to have more than one source. I've found out the hard way that not all accounts agree. I tend to verify a fact, date, etc., with three sources -- if they all agree, great. If not, I may go to another source or two, or I may just go "no one was sure" and do what I want.

Also, while newer books are good in some ways, I look for older and out of print ones as well, because you get a different flavor, and sometimes a more accurate depiction of what the average mindset was.

This is good advice. Western history has of late suffered from a number of attacks of PC-itis. While this in and of itself can be a "good" or "bad" thing, it does serve to strip many of the clues about the tenor of the times (not today's analysis of those times) out of the accounts. I tend to take this for granted because of my history background (along with having multiple sources and so on), so thanks Jeanne for bringing this up!

[Mr. Jinx]

Its been great reading all of the comments.

Another source I like are period newspapers. Nothing adds local flavor like reading about a stolen cow or who was drunk in public and had to be locked up. There are also those great sections where you can find out who was visiting whom in town. Of course the obituaries can be pretty revealing too about what was the leading cause of death going on at the time.

While I was living back east for a few years I had access to a great microfim collection and some of the actual bound broadsides for the local newspapers in Holyoke, MA. I was the city archivist there so I used those a lot for helping folks out with historical questions about people and events.

Now that I am back in CA I need to get connected with those collections around here. I am finding it harder here than back east though where every town had a historical society of some kind. Part of that is laziness on my part too . I just need to get out on the weekends and get better connected with the historical repsoitories.

--Dev

[Cav Guy]

Be sure to check university libraries as well. Many of them (especially in the West) have special collections areas that often take the place of local historical societies when it comes to gathering in this sort of stuff.

[Peggy]

Now that I am back in CA I need to get connected with those collections around here. I am finding it harder here than back east though where every town had a historical society of some kind. Part of that is laziness on my part too . I just need to get out on the weekends and get better connected with the historical repsoitories. If you feel up to making a trip over to Berkeley, the Bancroft Library has a fantastic collection of "Western Americana".

http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/collections/westernamericana.html

You can search the catalog from home, and immediately request the material you are interested in when you get there.

[JeanneTGC]

I'm pretty sure that both Arizona State Universiy and the University of Arizona have good archives. Northern Arizona University might as well.

The Phoenix Public Library has been invaluable to me. Not sure how interstate libraries work, but the libraries in Sacramento and Los Angeles would, I think, have some extensive information about what the state was like in the 1800's.

[Mr. Jinx]

If you feel up to making a trip over to Berkeley, the Bancroft Library has a fantastic collection of "Western Americana".

http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/collect...americana.html (http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/collections/westernamericana.html)


Thanks for the link. My manuscript is set in the Lexinginton Hills area just outside of Los Gatos - in particular the old towns of Alma and Lexington that are now under the reservior.

I know there are a few sources in San Jose as well, but I will definately check out the library in Berkeley when I get a chance. I'm entering into the fact checking stage with the manuscript so it really is time to do some more focused research. The story has an alternate history flare to it though, so I can take some liberties but I want to ground it in as many facts as I have folklore and fiction.

In particular I am trying to find a source for the period newspaper that covered Los Gatos and the Lexington Hills area during the later part of the 19th century. I have run across a reference to it in the past but I dont have the title handy. I am just hoping that there is an archived copy of it someplace. It might even be in the holdings of the San Jose Mercury. I just havent checked yet.

Thanks again though to everyone for their suggestions!

I just want say again how happy I am that this Forum is here.

--Dev

[Cav Guy]

Find a library with access to OCLC's WorldCat and use it to search your paper. It should tell you what libraries have what in terms of holdings and titles.

[Festus]

Now, I'd like to mention something here that seems to work for my writing.

I usually have the basic story in my mind before I start typing. What I search for in areas of knowledge for my wiriting are specifics.

Firearms, I have the 2007 Shooters Bible and other gun reference material, plus a real good friend to holler at.

When I wanted to know about Texas Rangers, I went to the Texas Rangers website and found the data I needed.

The Handbook of Texas (online) was also helpful. I also sought historical maps on the internet to give me perspective on the areas I was writing about.

Sames goes for edible wild plants and plants that were used for medicinal purposes - all online.

Don't know if this data will help anyone. Just thought I'd mention it.

Festus

[Peggy]

Find a library with access to OCLC's WorldCat and use it to search your paper. It should tell you what libraries have what in terms of holdings and titles. You can search WorldCat from the comfort of your own home: http://www.worldcat.org/

(and it's an excellent resource - you might be surprised what nearby public libraries have in their collections)

[Cav Guy]

True, Peggy, but sometimes the library versions have access to more "stuff" (like direct e-journal links and so on) that can be very useful. I used to work in interlibrary loan, so I got REAL familiar with WorldCat.

[Peggy]

True, Peggy, but sometimes the library versions have access to more "stuff" (like direct e-journal links and so on) that can be very useful. I used to work in interlibrary loan, so I got REAL familiar with WorldCat. That's very good to know. Thanks, Cav.

[JeanneTGC]

I'd be lost without the internet, BUT, I also like to be able to bookmark pages, highlight passages, unroll a map and track what I'm trying to do. So, while I use the 'net all the time for research, I still have 3 bookshelves of nothing but Old West and Civil War books and maps. (This, I might add, is for one novel series...hey, you can be a lot freer when you're writing fantasy :D . There are times when I wonder why I have 99% of my bookshelves devoted to 10% of what I write...but I just can't help myself.)

BTW, if you have any old forts, or are writing about areas around said old forts, many of them are now state parks or landmarks and many of them also sell maps of the period. Camp Verde and Montezuma Castle here in AZ sell a goodly number of maps, at reasonable prices. Also, Forts of the West, by Robert W. Frazer has been a godsend to me. Gives clear maps of where the forts were and, more importantly, when they were activated and when they were deactivated and, in some cases, activated again. Also discusses what they did at each fort, what military was there, etc. Really a great reference book.

[Cav Guy]

If you can find reprints, the Surgeon General's report from 1869 or so is an absolute must as well. In addition to Frazer's information it has pretty clear descriptions of not only the posts but (in many cases) the area around the post (to include local economy), disease rates for the year or two prior to the report, garrison numbers, and other information.

The secretary of war's reports to congress (done every year) are also outstanding sources of information that you won't find anywhere else when it comes to military affairs. The ones done by the Secretary of Interior can also be interesting.

[JeanneTGC]

We're winning as the Nerd Forum, aren't we? :D

Utley's "Frontier Regulars, the United States Army and the Indians, 1866-1890" is also really useful. (I have 3 shelves of really useful...LOL!)

[Cav Guy]

I mentioned Utley in an earlier post, and may have in this one somewhere as well....:)

Just about anything he's done is going to be very good for the Frontier Army. I've got somewhere in the neighborhood of two bookcases of very useful, at least for this period. World War II and Vietnam take up another three....:Shrug:

[JeanneTGC]

I mentioned Utley in an earlier post, and may have in this one somewhere as well....:)

Just about anything he's done is going to be very good for the Frontier Army. I've got somewhere in the neighborhood of two bookcases of very useful, at least for this period. World War II and Vietnam take up another three....:Shrug:
Yes, yes you did. My bad. I didn't see the exact title and all...LOL!

[Cav Guy]

Yes, yes you did. My bad. I didn't see the exact title and all...LOL!

No worries. I tend to use his Frontiersmen in Blue which covers the pre-War period almost as much as Frontier Regulars, so I lump his stuff together by author.:)

[Jonah Hex]

Hi friends!

In my opinion this is a great topic and I'd like say something me too.

I have many books about the Old West. For references is indispensable Everyday life in the Wild West 1840-1900 by Candy Moulton. It's inescapable.

Are useful books may be:

The look of the Old West by William Foster-Harris, for other things aside those on the Moulton's book.

Encyclopedia of western lawmen and outlaws by Jay Nash, and Encyclopedia of western gunfighters by Bill O'Neal, for useful biographies, also of unknown men.

The gunfighter: man or myth? by Joseph Rosa, for many details about the life and weapons of the gunfighter; The age of the gunfighters for an excellent reference about firearms.

Seeking pleasure on the Old West by David Dary, for details of everyday life.

Life of a soldier on the western frontier by Jeremy Agnew, is an excellent reference about soldiers, forts and war campaigns.

Frontier Living by Edwin Tunis, good reference for everyday life details in the whole period.

Historic dress of the Old West by Ernest Reedstrom, good visual reference.

Best of american cowboy by Ramon F. Adams, about the cowboy life and work.

The American Frontier by William Davis, an excellent Old West history illustrated compendium.

[J'Dubee]

Because I got absorbed in all the other threads in this site, This very important conversation was overlooked by me.
.

I apologize to Mr. Jinks for missing his excellent discussion thread. I started one last night at Western SYW and thank the folks who moved it to the correct location.

I have this terrific (shall we say) dislike of most published authors who seem to think changing period language to gain favor with the 12 year old boys who pay cash money to see the latest "Cowboy" movies -- then grow up to become lazy authors thinking the latest remake of True Grit or Wyatt Earp is way cool so that must be the way those dudes talked back in the real west.

This thread seems to be covering references for the old west better than any I've looked for on the web.

Maybe the thread I started could be combined with this one or mine could be devoted to strictly (a near forgotten) real life language that the folks here understand and love, less they wouldn't be a-lookin' at this here stuff.

BTW -- Speaking of References, I had an extensive collection of letters written between 1860 and 1912, to and from folks who could call a spade a spade. Sadly, they were lost by a young relative of mine in the 1960's before I could scan them into a yet-to-be-invented-computer for future generations.
Talk about "Reference Materials"!

I hope to see y'all around

Jay

[Jonah Hex]

Hi everybody!

I post here because I think this is the right topic for my questions.

I have two questions and I hope in your help:

1) Does exist Old West books similar to the Moulton's one "Eveyday life in the Wild West"?

2) This is more a confirmation than other: if you know, how many pages has really the "The Wordsworth Dictionary of American West" by Will Blevins? It's the 1993 edition of the last "Dictionary of American West" by Sasquatch Books. Some web sites says it has about 260 pages, other says it has 400 pages. Who is right?

Thank you very much for any help.

So long!

[HarryHoskins]

Hey Jonah, :)

We got some pretty good Old West expert type people here. One should be along shortly to help you out.

Counting down. :)

[Puma]

Jonah - Can you explain your first question a little more? Are you looking for a single book similar to Moulton's or a series of books or ...?

I'm not really familiar with either book you mentioned, so at the moment, I can't help, but I might be able to if I understood your first question better. Puma

[FOTSGreg]

I recently stumbled across a coffee table book "Guns of the American West" (I'm pretty sure that's the title) for something like $10 at B&N. It's absolutely gorgeous, full of anecdotes and pictures of old guns and facts about their history and production, manufacturers, designers, and history. It even has some interesting tidbits scattered throughout the book on some of the more esoteric weapons seen earlier in the west (like a side-pin cartridge Lemat, I believe).

[Dave Hardy]

Hi everybody!

I post here because I think this is the right topic for my questions.

I have two questions and I hope in your help:

1) Does exist Old West books similar to the Moulton's one "Eveyday life in the Wild West"?

2) This is more a confirmation than other: if you know, how many pages has really the "The Wordsworth Dictionary of American West" by Will Blevins? It's the 1993 edition of the last "Dictionary of American West" by Sasquatch Books. Some web sites says it has about 260 pages, other says it has 400 pages. Who is right?

Thank you very much for any help.

So long!

Interesting questions you have.

1) Re Moulton's Everyday Life, I went to WorldCat, an online searchable library reference. I searched for books under the same subject heading as Moulton's. There were very few and they seemed to be rather different.

The wild, wild West of Louis L'Amour : The illustrated guide to cowboys, indians, gunslingers, outlaws and Texas Rangers /, Bruce Wexler. 2005

Westward Ho! : literature-based activities for thematic teaching /Doris Jordan; Catherine Yuh, 1992 (Doesn't sound even close)


Gunslingers : wild West action! / Mark Arsenault, 2003 (a game, not actually a handbook).

2) I looked up all the editions of the dictionary WorldCat lists (there are only a few). They all show 266 pages, so I think 266 is most likely correct. If someone has actually seen it, they would know more than me.

I have a thread on Western history books, though it's been a while since I posted on it. In the US we're close to saturated with Western history, both general works and specific ones. If there's a topic you are interested in, drop some specifics and someone would surely know an English-language title that would cover it.

[Jonah Hex]

Thank you to everybody.
In the question 1. I ask for books about the everyday life in the Old West (towns, jobs, food, clothes, money, medicine, social life, ecc. ecc.) because the Moulton's book is excellent but not much exhaustive.
The two books listed by Dave I think are not quite pertaining.

About the question 2. Thank you Dave, I hope only that the Wordsworth edition is exactly alike the most recent editions... so why the Wordsworth one has many less pages than the others? Considering that all other editions have 400+ pages?

Anyway, thank so much to everybody, you're very kinds :)

So long pards!

[Puma]

Jonah - for more detailed information on life in the old West - see if your library has a set of the Time-Life books called The Old West. There are individual books, about 150 pages each on topics such as the Townsmen, the cowboys, the Women, etc. There are sets that show up on e-bay for $100.00 or more (there are at least two dozen books in the set).

Beyond that, I'd suggest Googling the topics you're interested in finding out more about. At least that will get you started and may give you some good ideas on reference material.

You might also look at this website to see if anything pops out

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/

Hope this helps a bit. Puma

[Snowstorm]

Books that are loaded with vernacular and habits, situations, dress, manners, etc., are the journals and diaries of people who were there. For my second novel, set in 1840s Nebraska (then Missouri Territory), I sought out the journals of those who were in the actual locale. Many of the journals/diaries of the people in this location were edited into books, so I wasn't forced to track down the original material.

So one resource is seeking out these books for those on the overland trails or pioneers in the old cities or communities. With a little searching you can find a treasure trove.

[Jonah Hex]

Good. I know the Time Life Series about Old West, soon or later it will be mine :D

@Snowstorm: according what you write I have a good book titled "The Prairie Traveler. The 1859 Handbook for Westbound Pioneers" by Randolph Marcy, a good guide about the pioneers world, from clothes to how to find water, from the trails to how to do a good camp for the night, and many other topics pretty helpful :)