Divisions of land

[strngchs]

I am trying to find out whether to use the term "shire" in a 13th century Scottish historical. I saw in Encyclopedia Brit. that the word shire is from the old English word scir was believed to be used from the 9th century.

Would it be proper to say Aberdeenshire in my novel?

[Ol' Fashioned Girl]

I haven't a clue... but my best guess is that Medievalist will be along to help. She knows everything about stuff like this. If she doesn't wander in on her own, you might PM her. :)

[Captain Scarf]

Aberdeenshire is in common usage now. Whether it was then is another matter.

Scotland did not come under English governance until James I (1610 I think) so they may have had different administrative boundaries.

In England in the 13th century 'shire' was used but in a different format. Warwickshire, for example, would be referred to officially as 'The Shire of Warwick' Each shire be divided into 'Hundreds'.

Scotland however, I know little about. They were were not invaded by the Danes or, I don't think, the Normans so their terminology will be different.

Many of the universities of Scotland: Edinburgh, St Andrew's, Stirling and possibly Aberdeen itself run courses on Scottish history and will have medieval specialists. I'm sure they would help out if you sent them an e-mail.

Sorry I can't be more help

[arrowqueen]

http://www.scottishhistory.com/articles/early/thanes/sheriffs_page1.html

Going by this article, the word 'shire' was in use in some places by 1094. (Scroll right down to the last three para's on page 1, then onto the next page.)

[Willowmound]

Scotland however, I know little about. They were were not invaded by the Danes or, I don't think, the Normans so their terminology will be different.



Not quite true. There were numerous Viking settlements in Scotland, primarily from Norway. Most of the major Scottish clans -- MacDonald, MacDouglas etc. -- are actually Norse in origin.

None of this answers the OP's question, however.

[Captain Scarf]

*Stands corrected*

[Rosamund]

I have no idea.

However, there is a reference to 'Aberdeyne' in The Brus, if you want to use almost period spelling (the romance was written c. 1375, I believe). :) (the e-text is at http://www2.arts.gla.ac.uk/SESLL/STELLA/STARN/poetry/BRUS/contents.htm, the reference is in Book II, line 515)

Just to confuse the matter further, this site (http://www.belhelvie.org.uk/history/medieval.htm) refers to a period document that talks of the 'thanage of 'Balhelvi'', a division of land within the area of Aberdeenshire. Maybe thanages are the way to go? As a way of sounding definitely pre-modern? As long as one existed where your story is set, of course. Just a thought.

[pdr]

and good research too.

Aberdeenshire sounds modern. And your readers will know of Macbeth and the Thane of Cawdor, so I second Rosamund's suggestion to go with thanes and that lovely old spelling of Aberdeen as 'Aberdeyne'. It's easy to recognise as the modern Aberdeen and a thane of ...sounds like your time period.

[Rosamund]

This entry from the Dictionary of the Scots Language (http://www.dsl.ac.uk/) might help. It has references to period documents! *is all excited*

S(c)hire, n. Also: s(c)hyr(e, s(c)hir, scire, schyir, schier, s(c)hyer(e, schyier; scheir(e, sheir, scheyr, scheyir; s(c)hair, shayr; (scyre, skir-, sire, seihire). [ME and e.m.E. schire (Ancr. R.), sher (c1450), shiere (1549), sheere (1615), OE scìr str. fem., = OHG scìra care, official charge, of the same ulterior origin as Cure n.1]
1. a. In earliest use: A subdivision of the royal demesne, in which the services and duties owed by the tenants were overseen by a royal grieve, lord, thane or prelate.
For full discussion, see G. W. S. Barrow The Kingdom of the Scots (1973), Chapter 1.
Also attrib. with stane. [Et schiram de Kirkaladunt et Inneresc minorem, cum tota schira de Fotriffe et Muselburge; 1070–93 Early Chart. 9.
In Coldingamscire; c1100 Ib. 17.
Scyram de Kircalethin; … Scyram de Gelland … scyram de Gatemilc; 1154–9 Regesta I 182, 183.
Preterea do eis communem pasturam in sire de Erdos sicut habent in sire de Callin; 1153–62 Ib. 215.
Kinninmoneth cum tota schira; 1160–1 Ib. 218.
In tota skira de Kilrimund; 1163–4 Ib. 260.
Carelsira; 1153–78 Laing Chart. 1.
Vicecomitis et prepositis Strivelinis scyra; 11.. Reg. Dunferm. 10.
Hadigtunes scyra; Ib. 88.
Kylrimonthschyr; 11.. Reg. St. A. 132.
Foregrund seihire; c1163–4 Ib. 187.
Ad sectam et multuram tanguam ad molendinum scyre de Lundors; 1261 Lindores Chart. 142.

I cut the entry there as the rest is after your time.

Perhaps calling Aberdeenshire 'The Scyre of Aberdeyne' or 'The Schyr of Aberdeyne' would take away the modern flavour of the word? Again, just a thought. The spelling of 'shire' shown for the period might be to difficult to understand for modern readers, though. Maybe the 'Schyre of Aberdeyne'?

[strngchs]

well! that is interesting indeed. i will have to decide just what i wanna call it now! oh well, that's okay. at least it was not TOO far off to call it a shire.

[pdr]

useful reference source, Rosamund, the Dictionary of the Scots Language. How about we ask Jen to sticky it under Scottish references and then add what else we find to it?

[Rosamund]

Sounds good to me!

You could add the reference to The Brus above if you wanted, and I also posted a fair few references to period Scottish dress and period names in strngchs's thread in SYW, if you want those.

I love resource stickies like these - it makes it so much easier to start looking at the time period.

Great idea, pdr.