More question on back story

[Southern_girl29]

In my finished (yippee) novel, the MC's father comes back into her life. She's never known him and doesn't really know anything about him. She's a psychic and so is her father. He works with the police to help solve crimes. My MC has started having visions seeing her mother being killed, so her mother calls in her father to come and help. Anyway, I have two scenes that I'm wondering about. I don't know if these scenes would be back story or needed or maybe if it's an info dump.

In the first scene, the MC and her mother are having a conversation. The mother is telling the MC about her father and allowing her to ask questions. So, the MC is asking the questions and answering them. She finds out about her father and what he does from her mom's POV. The second scene is with her father, and she's asking him questions. He's telling her about himself and answering her questions.

I think the information needs to be there. Is a conversation the way to go? Or is that telling? Should I just cut it out all together and let her find it out over the course of the book? I mean, I think, really, that a 14-year-old who is meeting her father for the first time is going to have questions and want answers. I think it fits, but do I necessarily have to have it as a scene.

[maestrowork]

Present the information WHEN the readers need to know. Don't stop the story with info dumps. And try to integrate it into the plot. It's better to incorporate your back stories in a scene and keep your readers in the story than take them out of the story to present them with information.

My $0.0001

[Southern_girl29]

The way the post reads, it seems like the first scene in the whole novel is the conversation with her mother, but it's not. That scene is in chapter 4, I think. The scene with her father is in chapter 6.

[job]

If you have information you want to give us
about the mother and the father and their history,
... putting two talking heads in a room
and having them discuss this information
is a relatively weak way to convey it.

The general rule,
(insofar as there are rules, which isn't very far,)
is that we not plot scenes to convey information.

We plot scenes to advance the story.

So ... let's say the info you want to convey is that the father is an amiable thief.

You could have Mom say ... "Your father was an amiable thief. I met him when I was twenty. He broke into my room at the hotel and tried to steal a gold bracelet ... yada yada."

Or you can write a scene
where the character's amulet is about to start glowing and talking to her. That's important to the story.
That's the heart of the scene.
Then you use that scene -- which has a story purpose -- to convey your info
'under cover'
as it were.
The protagonist walks into her mother's house and there is dear old Dad rooting through the jewel box, looking for somthing to pawn
and at that moment the amulet starts talking.

[Linda Adams]

The mother is telling the MC about her father and allowing her to ask questions. So, the MC is asking the questions and answering them. She finds out about her father and what he does from her mom's POV. The second scene is with her father, and she's asking him questions. He's telling her about himself and answering her questions.



It sounds like they're a couple of talking heads discussing backstory so you can get it on the page. Just from the description you gave, it does sound like an info dump by any other name, and moreover, it does ruin the suspense, conflict, and tension you can play out over the course of the book.

So ... think about the one thing the reader needs to know to understand the story at that point and make the character suffer through conflict as that information is given.



I mean, I think, really, that a 14-year-old who is meeting her father for the first time is going to have questions and want answers.


If she hasn't seen her father for 14 years, she's going to have a very strong emotional reaction. She's probably going to be very angry at him. I was just watching Princess Diaries last night, and in one of the scenes, Mia is told her father was a prince. She gets angry at her mother for lying to her about her father and her grandmother for ignoring her. Your character is, at the very least, going to be angry about why the father stayed away from her the whole time, and may even think that somehow, there was something wrong with her that caused it. Even if she dreamed of seeing him all her life, she's still going to have a reaction (especially if she dreamed of it, because she will have built him larger than life, and the real thing will be disappointing).

[Southern_girl29]

It sounds like they're a couple of talking heads discussing backstory so you can get it on the page. Just from the description you gave, it does sound like an info dump by any other name, and moreover, it does ruin the suspense, conflict, and tension you can play out over the course of the book.

So ... think about the one thing the reader needs to know to understand the story at that point and make the character suffer through conflict as that information is given.



If she hasn't seen her father for 14 years, she's going to have a very strong emotional reaction. She's probably going to be very angry at him. I was just watching Princess Diaries last night, and in one of the scenes, Mia is told her father was a prince. She gets angry at her mother for lying to her about her father and her grandmother for ignoring her. Your character is, at the very least, going to be angry about why the father stayed away from her the whole time, and may even think that somehow, there was something wrong with her that caused it. Even if she dreamed of seeing him all her life, she's still going to have a reaction (especially if she dreamed of it, because she will have built him larger than life, and the real thing will be disappointing).

The way I have it written, the mother told the father to stay away, unless he gives up his work with the police. He isn't willing to do that, so he stays away. Gracie, the MC, is really angry with her mother, more so than her father. Her mother has never accepted the fact that her daughter is a psychic, and for years, she pretended Gracie didn't have the talent. So, the father rides in like a hero. He knows Gracie has the talent and is there to teach her how to develop it. He accepts her more than the mother ever did, or so Gracie thinks. So, the anger is more directed at her mother. However, she does feel anger at her father, and she hides it, from herself and from others, until he gives her a command like any father would. She blows up at him, then. I don't know if that works or not.

[Rob B]

There's a pretty good rule of thumb on back story someone mentioned to me once, and that is unless we feel we're Williams Styron, we should avoid it for all of the reasons others have alluded to in this thread.

HOWEVER. Since the material is integral to your story, you'll want to present it somewhere; whether in dialogue, interior monologue, narrative, etc. Your options our going to be dictated by how you've written the story from a stylistic perspective.

The manner by which this interloping affects the pacing (as someone pointed out) should lead you to where and how best to insert the material. This becomes one of those writers' skill-set issues and an area where some of us labor over often extensive revisions as we attempt to attain what we think will provide the best result.

I don't think there is a quick or necessarily easy solution, but one you will have to determine by analysis and revision--and likely employing the different options at various plot points--until you find the one that enhances your story without retarding its delivery.

Still like the fact you referenced in your bio that you liked "LITTLE HOUSE". Wilder's works are probably not a bad place to look for answers to this very issue, by the way.

[Southern_girl29]

I've just gone through and cut about two pages of dialogue. I saved it in another file, because I might be able to sprinkle it in later. I've already been able to do some about that. In the scene with her mom, they argue, and the mom won't tell her anything unless Gracie talks. Gracie won't, because she's mad at her mom, so the scene ends without her really finding out much. In the scene with her father, Gracie's trying to find out why her dad stayed away and hide her anger at him for staying away. So, she finds out a little bit about why he stayed away, he apologizes, she says she'll try to forgive him, but she doesn't really find out a lot about his abilities. I think it works. I'm going to read it aloud tonight to my husband to see what he thinks.

[Judg]

The conversation can work if, and this is a big if, it has it's own dramatic tension. If you set it up as a scene, with conflicting goals, a build-up, a climax, a resolution that sends us forward to the next step in the plot, it could be very powerful. But it has to justify itself on the basis of more than just providing information. If the information is threaded through a conversation that actually advances the plot, why not?

[Southern_girl29]

Now, I've cut about four pages. I probably won't cut a lot more of the dialogue. Those were the only places I really worried about info dumping. I think it reads much better, is much tighter and adds a little suspense. The reader is going to find everything out when Gracie does.

[AdamH]

Now, I've cut about four pages. I probably won't cut a lot more of the dialogue. Those were the only places I really worried about info dumping. I think it reads much better, is much tighter and adds a little suspense. The reader is going to find everything out when Gracie does.

It's only info dumping is it appears uncharacteristic to your character.

For example, if your character is a shy soft-spoken person with no previous signs of curiosity in the world around her (or him), asking questions or receiving extensive answers would seem out of place.

On the other hand, if your character is inquisitive, observant, and a little more extrovert, it wouldn't seem so odd.

So immerse yourself into Gracie's and her father's character and see what pans out.

There may be things in this chapter that doesn't need to be let out right away. Maybe could be held off until a later chapter and found out a different way.

Hope that helps! :)

[scribbler1382]

Just avoid the "As you know, Bob..." syndrome. Somewhere on these boards (forget where exactly) someone was asking for readers to comment on their book on Amazon. I went to their website where the first chapter was available. The whole first page was a couple cops sitting in a car telling each other things they already knew. Ick.

[Raphee]

Backstory......I am guilty of it in my current novel. But thats the way the whole thing has been set up. Since this a WIP. I plan to break it into smaller pieces and present it in different parts of the novel.
What gets me into a knot is resolving the timelines that shall crop up at various points of the novel.
Not hijacking your thread, just offering further food for thought.