Graphic Novels ... how many have "R" nudity and language?

[small axe]

Well, I don't read many, so I'll ask those of you familiar with them ...

Is there a market for "R"-rated sorts of graphic novels featuring adult themes, nudity, language, violence? Or is it just sales-suicide, so people don't draw or publish those?

[BottomlessCup]

There's definitely a market for them, albeit not a huge one. (Not that any graphic novels have a 'huge' market.)

Many of the 'literary' graphic novels - the R. Crumb, Daniel Clowes kind of stuff - have plenty of language and even graphic sex. (Sometimes very graphic sex. Debbie Drescher's "Daddy's Little Girl" had intense, graphic drawings of her father's sexual molestation of her.)

And, of course, there's Sin City. That's definitely R.

I think most GNs are aimed at adults, so it's pretty safe. Unless you're using an existing character. If that's the case, follow what's out already. No cussing Spiderman!

[Stacia Kane]

The entire Vertigo line has more adult, graphic stuff. There's Marvel MAX too. And you do find the occasional bit elsewhere, but as Bottomlesscup has pointed out, doing that stuff with existing and child-friendly characters is tricky, especially in ongoing continuity.

Original stories, though? There's definitely a market. Look at some of the Manga stuff, or some of the books places like Dark Horse put out.

[wordmonkey]

There's "Yaoi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaoi)," an entire sub-genre of manga based around gay boys. (I should clarify, I don't mean that in the "You're just a big nancy gay-boy!" but rather boys who are gay.) Now from the little I have seen of these (manga's not my thing, so gay manga isn't a plus) some are very "artistic" but it's still gonna bump the rating just because of the subject matter.

It depends on the context and other factors. Does it drive the plot? Does it add to a character's development? If it's there just for effect, it's not gonna fly, but it's the same as any medium, you can do anything as long as it's true to the whole.

The Watchmen has a rape scene. Granted, it's not your average super-hero book, but it's in the genre. And it is a pivotal moment in the plot.

I'm working with an artist on a graphic novel now. We've been developing the characters and ideas, and have finally come to the conclusion the main character should be naked for most of the book. But the nakedness is actually a thematic element that reflects something else. Having a naked guy walking through the vast majority of your book, and not resorting to the conventient potty-plant in every panel is gonna up the rating. But when the book is all about death, revenge, lost love, murder and suicide is a naked guy really gonna make THAT much difference?

[Axler]

Well, Dr. Manhattan strolled through most of The Watchmen starkers, so the precedent was set.

But as a general rule, graphic novels featuring more extreme nudity, sex and violence won't be found at your local Barnes and Noble, racked next to Tin-Tin or Star Wars compilations.

You'll be more inclined to find them at direct market comics shops.

[wordmonkey]

I wastrying to remember if Doc M was naked or not. Too lazy to got dig out the book. But yeah, another example.

From Hell is cram packed full of both sex, violence and language.

And curiously you WILL find that in Borders, next to Tintin et al.

[Button]

There's Yaoi, which wordmonkey mentioned, and there are versions out there where sex is the key ingredient. The men tend to me feminine looking. And then there is the other half, Yuri, lesbians. There's plenty of sex out there. ;)

[Crosshatcher]

Most comics are geared to adults. Even the big boyscout "Superman" slept with Lois Lane before they got married. DC was just very discrete in how they portrayed it. Few young children wish to read these days IMHO; they are more interested in video games where they can take an active participation. The majority of readers are the baby boomers who grew up reading comics and kept up the habit long into adulthood.

If you are not sure if you want to approach a publisher there are several sites that host online webcomics. drunkduck.com and comicspace.com are two among many who host webcomics. If you're doing your own artwork you might wish to try them and see what sort of feedback you get.

[TSByrne]

Indeed, one of the greatest "problems" with the comics industry is that it's pretty much ONLY adults read them. Thus even mainstream Spider-Man, Green Lantern kind of stuff is pretty adult (I'd say hard PG-13) and there are many many many books rated R+ (anything by Vertigo, much of Wildstorm, a lot of Image stuff, independent creator-owned books, some Dark Horse, Marvel's aborted Max imprint, and so on). It's good stuff too, or at least some of it is. Books like Preacher, The Invisibles, and Kabuki are head and shoulders above 99.9% of movies these days.

I personally think this is a good thing, because I hate kids and don't want to ever see them when I go to get my comics about rapin' and cussin' and killin'.

:)

[AzBobby]

The point was made that there's no "huge" market for graphic novels anyway, let alone R-rated ones.

But there's an appreciable exception when it comes to movie tie-ins, right? My B&N has had prominent displays of Sin City and 300 compilation volumes (apart from their usual shelving) around the time the movies got attention. 300 still covers one of their endcaps, months after the movie peaked in theaters in my area. Now and then these displays are turned into general graphic novel displays for better sales mileage, in which they typically include other titles that earned their high profiles through movie deals.

Seems to me the majority of those titles were PG-13 or R material -- the Frank Miller and Alan Moore offerings spring to mind first, along with tie-ins adapted from films that always seem to be horrific, racy and/or violent, such as 30 Days Later, Matrix, and Shawn of the Dead spinoffs.

I'm a latecomer to Moore's Watchmen. Just bought the compilation last night from B&N (reading it slow and enjoying it lots). I was led to it by, among other recommendations, Time magazine's inclusion of it as the only graphic novel among their 100 best English novels from around 1926 to the near present. Critical acclaim is pretty light promotion compared to the Hollywood treatment, but apparently it works (and the publishers of the edition I bought didn't miss this fact--they printed the Time brag on the cover top center). I'm sure that promotion had something to do with it appearing on the B&N graphic novel shelf, where the selection isn't the most impressive. And it's typical for adult-oriented graphic novels to get more of that attention, is it not? From what I've read so far, Watchmen is R-rated material based on themes--violent sex/rape scenes, gory murders and torture--as well as the casual cussing.

I'm thinking that while acknowledging any big hits in graphic novels are rare exceptions, and admitting I wish more kid stuff that was truly great would be produced to keep up the interest in coming generations, most exceptions to the rule seem to run contrary to fearing commercial suicide with R-rated material.

[Turtle07]

I can't list any cuz I can't, and don't, wanna read them, but there are lot's made for older people.