Got Sex?

[jpsorrow]

No particular topic jumped out at me as something to write on this week, so I decided to go back and look at the panels I was on at Norwescon and write up one of those. Most of the panels were on topics I've already discussed here to some extent (plot, character, setting, etc), but not the sex panel. YES! I was somehow put on a late night panel about sex. I'm not sure why. Part of me thinks it's because I'm just too sexy for my novels, but in any case the panel was a blast. So that's the one I'm going to write up for this week's advice/tip. The topic and what I have to say about it comes from all of the panelists, so they deserve credit as well: Richelle Mead, me (of course), and Michael Montoure (who may be on LJ, but if so, I don't know his handle). Thanks for a *ahem* lively panel guys!

Got Sex?

Ok, so sex sells. We all know this. That's part of why you clicked on this LJ cut and are reading this post, right? It mentioned SEX! So the real question is when is it appropriate to include sex, perhaps explicit sex, in your novel? And if sex should be included, how explicit should you get? Extremely important questions, with (of course) varied answers.

First off, I'm going to limit this entry to adult novels. I don't want to get into an argument about whether young adult novels should include sex or not, or how much or how far you should take sex in YA, and so forth. YA is a misty, vague boundary area and there are people on both sides with valid points and reasons for what they believe. Feel free to argue amongst yourself in a civilized manner in the comments about this. I'm not going to get involved.

So, keeping ourselves to adult novels, when is sex appropriate? Well, sex--whether it's true love, good old fashioned lust, casual sex, or rape--should only be included when it is relevant to the plot development or the character development. In other words, it can't just be there because it's fun. If that's true, then you aren't writing a novel, you're writing porn. (Which is a perfectly valid type of story and if that's your audience then you probably don't need to be reading this article. You have everything already in hand, so to speak.) So the sex itself, of any type, has to DO SOMETHING. It has to alter the situation or the character in some way. It has to be important for some other reason than that's what's happening. Of course, casual sex happens all of the time, but it doesn't need to be included in the story in any detail unless it changes something. Fade to the crackling fireplace, or the swells of the ocean, or the rocket shooting into space, or the train barreling into a tunnel, or the pile of suggestive donuts and eclairs, but the sex itself doesn't need to be described in any detail. It's there, we get the idea, and more than likely our imaginations will conjure up a much more interesting sex scene then the one written anyway. When it comes to sex, people are EXTREMELY creative. They don't need help from the author.

So what are some of the reasons to include it, in detail? The main reason for me is character development. I'll include a sex scene of whatever form if it has something to do with the character. If the sex is integral to establishing the relationship between two (or more, ha ha) characters, then it SHOULD be included. It's crucial to the reader's understanding of the relationship. If it signifies an important change in the current relationship, it should be included. If it's the END of a relationship, and that becomes apparent during the sex scene to either character, then it should be included. The reasons are many and faceted (ooo!) and endless for why sex should be included, rather then left out or hinted at alone, when it comes to character. Those are the three that leap to mind (both now and on the panel).

And plot reasons? Well, perhaps the sex is critical for the magical system to work. Or perhaps the sex is integral to the atmosphere. (For example, all the vampire novels out there.) But those are relatively basic ideas. What's more interesting is when the sex actually indicates a turning point in the plot, say when a key person is seduced into switching sides. At that point, the sex is important. Or when someone suddenly realizes they are in love with someone else, and that now they can't go hell-bent into battle as easily as they could before, thus altering their original battleplan. (Such as in "V" for Vendetta, an excellent movie, although I don't think they ever had sex. They just danced.) Or when a rape pushes a person past their initial boundaries and forces them to act. Notice that all of these more interesting plot reasons also hinge heavily on character changes as well, not just plot.

Ok, so now we know when sex should be included. How explicit should it be? Well, that depends on the audience for the book. If the intended audience doesn't want and doesn't expect anything explicit, then it shouldn't be explicit. If they ARE expecting rather explicit sex, then you need to put it in there. That being said, you should never, ever compromise your story. If it's a light-hearted fantasy about young love, explicit sex is probably not going to go over well. It will change the tone of the story.

Also part of the "how explicit" question is the intended effect of the sex. For example, Patricia Bray had a rather intense rape/torture in her novel. In the first draft, she left the actual scene to the reader's imagination, hinting at it only. But the intent behind the scene, the change that the scene was supposed to initiate in the characters and the plot, was significant enough that the scene actually NEEDED to be included. It didn't have enough of an impact on the reader without it. So in the revisions, she forced herself to include it.

So in the end *cough* you need to ask yourself why the sex is there. If there is a significant reason for it to be included, for either the plot or character (or better yet both), then by all means, have sex! And once you know you need sex, decide what type of audience you are looking for, and what type of story you want the story to BE. That will determine how explicit that sex should be.

Thanks again to the all the panelists at Norwescon on the sex panel.

[Devil Ledbetter]

So far my WIP has five sex scenes. Only two are explicit, although neither of those involve penetration and nothing glistens or throbs. I worked pretty hard to avoid the cliches - nobody "undresses slowly" or does a striptease involving garter belts (insert disclaimer that an excellent writer could do these things well, bla bla bla). The most important sex scene is told from both characters' viewpoints, although not at the same time.

All five are crucial to the plot.

[Prawn]

I have sex scenes in my novels. I find that it is very exiting to write the scenes between people who aredating, but I can not write a sex scene between people who are married. I think it is because sex between married people is sort of behind closed doors. How many passionate sex scenes are there between a husband and wife in movies, for example. The only one that comes to mind is from A History of Violence, and that was almost a fight scene. Sexy as hell, though.

[janetbellinger]

I had several sex scenes in one of my adult novels plus a sexual problem but it didn't arouse a flicker of interest from even one publisher or agent. I didn't even put sex in as a lure in those novels, it was just something that naturally occurred between two people in love. Maybe the rest of the novel was so bad it overturned any lure of the sex scenes. I kind of thought sex on the drier might have been a bit titillating but not enough to interest anybody in the publishing world. Ah well. On to other novels, with or without sex.

[Maprilynne]

There is a lot of sex in my book . . . kinda funny, it's ended up almost being a theme . . . but there are no sex scenes. You know darn well what's happening, but the voice and story don't call for it to be shown.

My romance on the other hand, there's lots of great sex in that one. (Is it hot in here?:))

Maprilynne

[infinitus_kaze]

I think that explicit sex scenes don't have a place in literature at all unless you are writing erotica. I think sex scenes should be done as an artform in literature, not emphasizing the sex but the emotions involved. It's much more exciting for me to read a book that focuses on the emotions the characters are feeling during the moments leading up to the sex scene and the foreplay than it is to actually read a sex scene. I prefer literature to cut away from a sex scene; lead up to it and include some foreplay and then move to the end of the scene. It's much more romantic that way than adding in pathetic lines like "he thrust his rod into her mound." The point of any sex scene (and I'm excluding rape scenes) should be to show a relationship of love and not lust. If lust is a major part of the story, than the story ends up being an erotic vanity novel instead of a true piece of literature in my opinion.

As for rape scenes, I will include them if they are necessary to the story but I will not describe them in detail. I have yet to include a rape scene in any of my works, but I have included a few attempted rape scenes and I think I wrote then in a tasteful manner. One scene, you only hear the girl yelling at her attacker through a door saying that her husband will kill the man when he finds out. Another scene is mainly done through the eyes and expressions on the attackers' faces. They never actually touch the girl because they are stopped beforehand, but just the looks in their eyes and the terror the girl feels get the point across.

[ClaudiaGray]

Sex scenes are tough to write, but they can work for your story/characters/plot. And I personally find it both most difficult and most rewarding to write sex scenes between characters who are married or long-established lovers; that's when the communication gets to go to new places, you know? But it's more difficult, b/c you can't rely on the ever-titillating thrill of the new.

A very great sex scene between a married couple in a film (and really, it's just one of the great sex scenes ever) is in the 1970s Donald Sutherland film "Don't Look Now."

My YA series will eventually include sex, but I'm working up to it.

[Devil Ledbetter]

I think that explicit sex scenes don't have a place in literature at all unless you are writing erotica. I think sex scenes should be done as an artform in literature, not emphasizing the sex but the emotions involved. It's much more exciting for me to read a book that focuses on the emotions the characters are feeling during the moments leading up to the sex scene and the foreplay than it is to actually read a sex scene. I prefer literature to cut away from a sex scene; lead up to it and include some foreplay and then move to the end of the scene. It's much more romantic that way than adding in pathetic lines like "he thrust his rod into her mound." The point of any sex scene (and I'm excluding rape scenes) should be to show a relationship of love and not lust. I disagree, sort of. Both of the more explicit sex scenes in my WIP focus far more on emotions rather than mechanics, although in both cases, how that sex takes place is important to the plot. Therefore, an "and then they had sex" fadeout doesn't work (as it does in the other three).

Love is far from the only emotion these scenes portray. One portrays surprise, feeling out of control and shame, the other (and most important) illustrates a major rift between the couple - she goes from feeling annoyed and impatient to disgusted to hurt, he goes from feeling overwhelmingly turned on to regretful.

In neither of those scenes are rods, mounds or any direct mention or euphamisms for genitalia used. Adults know how sex works - no point in giving mechanical details.

[infinitus_kaze]

Love is far from the only emotion these scenes portray. One portrays surprise, feeling out of control and shame, the other (and most important) illustrates a major rift between the couple - she goes from feeling annoyed and impatient to disgusted to hurt, he goes from feeling overwhelmingly turned on to regretful.

In neither of those scenes are rods, mounds or any direct mention or euphamisms for genitalia used. Adults know how sex works - no point in giving mechanical details.

When I spoke of explicit sex scenes I meant pornographic sex scenes in which the actual physical acts are given more weight than the emotional aspect. I used sarcasm to try to explain it with the rod and mound jab, but I should have been clearer. A sex scene that doesn't contain graphic details isn't an explicit sex scene in my mind. Also, when I spoke of love it was only as an example. I know that there are other emotions that can be and are conveyed through sex scenes and I welcome those.

[Medievalist]

If you're writing sex scenes, you've got to read this from Tor editor Teresa Nielsen Hayden (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/005871.html); follow the links.

And honestly, y'all should be reading a lot of poetry before 1832, beginning with Canticles (http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt3001.htm).

ETA: I meant to link to this super post from our very own Hapisofi on writing sex scenes (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=82911#post82911).

[Sassenach]

As long as it's straight sex, it's ok. :>

[MacAllister]

???

Care to clarify, Sass?

[Jamesaritchie]

Anything is appropriate to some readers, not to others. I seldom read novels with explicit sex scenes, and never, ever because of the sex scenes. It's a poor writer who can't titillate a reader without an explicit sex scene.

[Sassenach]

I was [jokingly] referring the other thread re "homosexuality in novels."

[Sassenach]

A very great sex scene between a married couple in a film (and really, it's just one of the great sex scenes ever) is in the 1970s Donald Sutherland film "Don't Look Now."



Word.

[Devil Ledbetter]

If you're writing sex scenes, you've got to read this from Tor editor Teresa Nielsen Hayden (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/005871.html); follow the links.

And honestly, y'all should be reading a lot of poetry before 1832, beginning with Canticles (http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt3001.htm).I followed those links at the end and laughed. I did read that tttt blog stuff, before I wrote my sex scenes. You're right, there were a lot of good suggestions on that blog - it's in my favorites. Here's a direct link. (http://www.tiedtothetracks.com/storytelling/archives/sex_scenes/index.html)

When I spoke of explicit sex scenes I meant pornographic sex scenes in which the actual physical acts are given more weight than the emotional aspect.Fair enough, Kaze. The scene I was talking about is rather explicit, but the emotions still hold more weight.

[DeadlyAccurate]

I have two sex scenes in my last novel. One is so casual, I don't show anything at all. It goes from "Hey, let's have sex," to "Thanks, I needed that." Part of the reason I didn't show anything was because I wanted to emphasize how little the sex meant to the character. While it wouldn't surprise me if an editor suggests it be stricken, I've left it in as a character defining moment. The second scene, with a different guy, shows a bit more. Because the sex matters more. But the entire scene still fits on a page simply because I don't care to go into detail.

My current book doesn't have any sex but does have a steamy almost-sex scene, also with a near stranger (there's a theme here, I think.) I'm going to end the book with her hooking up with the guy, but there won't be any description.

[ClaudiaGray]

Explicit sex can of course be a part of great fiction -- it's part of life, something that involves people's minds and emotions AND bodies. If you can write about it honestly (and I believe this is one of the very hardest things to do), why wouldn't it be a valid subject? Arundhati Roy's The God of Small Things describes the central affair in sensual detail, but the book cannot be dismissed as either solely erotica or inadequate fiction. The entire book is sensually driven (descriptions of smells and tastes and the vividness of an orange in someone's palm are still sharp to me, years after I last re-read it), so obviously this carries over into the passages about the affair; also, it makes it clear to the reader why the mother is willing to risk so much. We fall under the spell with her.

In a different vein, where would Philip Roth be without explicit sex? He'd be a liar, first of all; sex is what a number of his characters have on their minds, and that's where their attention (and therefore the readers' attention) goes.

If you're talking about what different genres of fiction commercially allow, that's another thing altogether. But just in general, I think it's sort of absurd to pretend that sex cannot be written about the way that any other human experience can be. It can be veiled or straightforward, funny or sincere (or funny and sincere), revealing or mysterious. The trick is to approach the writing the same way you do other moments in your characters' lives -- judging the importance and the intimacy necessary.

[Sassenach]

Even though this has been discussed again and again, for me it comes down to writing and reading and viewing what you want to. It's not an issue of appropriateness.

[Linda Adams]

I feel like the odd man out--I don't have any sex scenes in my book. Of course, the characters don't have time for it ... Seriously, though, the story didn't need it.

[jpsorrow]

Not all stories need sex scenes. That's why you have to decide whether it's necessary or not.

I don't go into sex at all in my second book. And the third has hints of relationships and possible sex, but I actually play with the reader about it. Are they, or are they not? There's no reason to show it in any detail whatsoever for the plot, so I have fun by NOT showing it instead.

[Scrawler]

My 2 sex scenes are more comical than sensual.

[Will Lavender]

My 2 sex scenes are more comical than sensual.

Sounds like my sex life.

Rimshot!

[civilian chic]

I often think authors write around the subject: avoiding it not because "it doesn't need to be there" or "emotion is the important thing," but because they're afraid. Writing about sex is kind of scary. It takes practice. It takes not caring that your parents might someday read it.

It takes cajones, no?

[Jan-Tosh]

Rimshot!

You don't want to use this word during a conversation about sex.

[aruna]

It takes cajones, no?
Nope. For the most part I find them boring (to read, I mean). Why would I write something that bores me? None of my books have a sex scene; but lots of love!

[Ardellis]

The only sex scenes I've read that were boring were the bad ones. The ones that don't add to the story or the characterization, or that are just plain badly written. Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad sex scenes out there, even in otherwise enjoyable stories.

I have two characters in my WIP whose sexual mores allow for very casual sex. They have a history of it with each other, in fact, but that was a few years ago. At the start of the story, they don't/can't trust each other, but by mid-book they are going to have to or they're both dead, along with people they love. Plus, for reasons too convoluted to explain, by a certain point in the story, if he doesn't have her (and it has to be her) in his room at night, the antagonist will be there to do terrible things to him.

In other words, there's going to be sex. Can't be avoided. And the scene is going to be pivotal to their relationship, so I can't just close the door on them. And, you know what? It scares the bejeezes out of me that I'm going to have to write it. Partly because I have my own baggage about what my friends and family will think, but mostly because it's going to be the most challenging scene I'll have ever written.

The torture scenes are easier.

[Will Lavender]

Nope. For the most part I find them boring (to read, I mean). Why would I write something that bores me? None of my books have a sex scene; but lots of love!

Love? Gross.

[Devil Ledbetter]

The only sex scenes I've read that were boring were the bad ones. The ones that don't add to the story or the characterization, or that are just plain badly written. Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad sex scenes out there, even in otherwise enjoyable stories.
I think that's the key. Sex that is there just for the sake of having a sex scene, and isn't moving the plot along any more than saying "and then they had sex" would, is probably going to be tedious.

[Medievalist]

I meant to link to this post earlier, from our own brilliant and thoughtful Hapisofi on writing sex scenes (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=82911#post82911).

[jpsorrow]

Actually, that's one of the biggest "problems" that most writers need to get over: that their friends and family might read their novel. The thought that their mother or father or neighbor or best friend might read the novel (or short story) and make a judgment based on the WRITER as opposed to the STORY is a constant threat. And every writer needs to realize that what other people think of YOU doesn't matter. You can't write (or not write) certain scenes or books simply because your mother might get ahold of it. You have to write what is important for the STORY. No thought about who might read it except it's intended audience should come into the equation at any point. This applies to everything regarding writing, not just sex or violence. And it's particularly relevant at the moment because certain people are making judgments on writers based on what they write because of what's happened at Virginia Tech.

My books are . . . well, the common word used is "gritty". Meaning I don't pull punches when it comes to violence or sex as long as it's important for the story. However most people who read the books say they'd never expect that from me. And I'm certainly not going to go nuts and start shooting people just because I have some violence in the material I write. People need to learn the difference between the story and the writer, and not translate facts known about one to the other.

[civilian chic]

Thanks, jpsorrow. Funny that at the age of 30 that even matters.

In order not to be gratuitous, I think sex should function like any other event of the story and fall into one of the following categories: does it drive the plot? Is it revealing of character? Does it create an emotional turning point? If so, it's necessary to the story ... and our parents should understand that!

[aruna]

Thanks, jpsorrow. Funny that at the age of 30 that even matters.

In order not to be gratuitous, I think sex should function like any other event of the story and fall into one of the following categories: does it drive the plot? Is it revealing of character? Does it create an emotional turning point? If so, it's necessary to the story ... and our parents should understand that!

But even so, a graphic blow-by-blow account is seldom necessary or interesting. I can understand that it might titillate some people, but my reason for writing is never to titillate. (caveat: some people read and write to titillate, and that is fine with me! I don't.)

[McDuff]

People fuck and people fight, aruna. Sometimes you can write "she got shot" and sometimes you have to describe how it felt to have the bullet shatter her elbow joint. Sometimes you can write "they had sex" and sometimes you have to describe every sweaty thrust and grasping, third-knuckle penetration. This is the way of things. Ultimately we're slaves to the story here, we just do the best job we can to get it told.

[Zoombie]

Though I, personally, would rather stick to the thrusts than the gory descriptions...

[Sean D. Schaffer]

So far, I have only one sex scene intended for my novel. I might have more, depending on how the outline turns out, but for right now, one is fine.

Truthfully, I look forward to writing it out. But the thing with me is, I've never written a sex scene for one of my Fantasy works that I would consider appropriate for the genre. I've dabbled in Erotica, and that's really the only kind of sex scene I've written.

To me, the best sex scenes have more to do with the characters' emotions than a play-by-play of every single sexual move their bodies make.

But I try to write a scene where both aspects of the sexual experience are described: the characters' emotions, and also the physical aspects. I think if I can write it well, it should go seamlessly into the story without a problem.

But like others have pointed out, it must be integral to the plot, if it is to be acceptable in the work. The reason I only have one sex scene scheduled for my work at present, is that there is no reason for another so far. As the outline progresses, I might find need for another sex scene. But until such time as the plot requires it, I find no need to add another.

[Zoombie]

If my book kept going for five more pages, then there would be a sex scene. I say, "The end" right before she starts tearing his clothes off like a rabid phyranna.

<sigh> they're so cute when they're in love, aren't they?

[aruna]

Sometimes you can write "they had sex" and sometimes you have to describe every sweaty thrust and grasping, third-knuckle penetration. This is the way of things. Ultimately we're slaves to the story here, we just do the best job we can to get it told.

It depends on the kind of book you write. Because of who I am, and what i write and where my stories go, this kind of description has never been necessary, and never will be.




But like others have pointed out, it must be integral to the plot, if it is to be acceptable in the work.

Exactly.
There has never been a situation where every sweaty thrust and grasping, third-knuckle penetration has been integral to my plots. I just don't think/feel that way.