First 5 pages

[Miss Java]

Question about sending sample pages. If they say to send first 5 pages, and your first chapter (a short one mind you) is only 4 pages, would it by acceptable to just send them 4? The end of the chapter is much more intriguing than the bottom of the next page of the next chapter.


Thanks for your input.

[Novelhistorian]

I say yes. The agent will realize immediately why you didn't send five, and I can't see that one page more or less will make a difference. If the first four grab him or her, you're fine; if not, you're done.

[Will Lavender]

Yes. Four, five -- doesn't matter.

Miss Snark says she can tell if a book's going to be worth her time based on the first page.

That's hard for me to believe.

I realize there's nothing we writers can really do about it, but I just don't know how a person can tell much about a manuscript based on only four pages. Seems to me you're just wasting your time as an agent if you request that small of an amount.

I was once asked to send one page to an agent. That's...absurd, IMO.

[kristie911]

I might be in the minority here but if they ask for 5, I send them 5. No more, no less. At least they'll know I can take direction well. :)

[herdon]

Yes. Four, five -- doesn't matter.

Miss Snark says she can tell if a book's going to be worth her time based on the first page.

That's hard for me to believe.

I realize there's nothing we writers can really do about it, but I just don't know how a person can tell much about a manuscript based on only four pages. Seems to me you're just wasting your time as an agent if you request that small of an amount.

I was once asked to send one page to an agent. That's...absurd, IMO.

I don't think it is at all absurd and I agree that a good agent will probably rule out the majority within the first page.

Once, out of curiousity, I went to the iUniverse site and pulled up a few manuscripts to read at random. Only one would have made it past the first two or three paragraphs were I an agent/editor.

Now, I would agree that if you first queried an agent and then they asked for a single page that would be a little odd -- but not because they couldn't make a judgement based on a single page -- moreso because if you are going to ask for a sample you might as well get a larger sample.

[johnzakour]

I don't think it matters much if you send four or five pages, it's quality not quanity that counts.

If it was me I'd send five, figuring "the more they read the better".

[Kay_XX]

I think if you're an aspiring author, your MS needs to be tight from the word go. That means even the first few pages should grab the reader. It makes sense, although it might not feel "fair". Now when it's someone who is already known, you "forgive" them even if the story takes some time to get rolling, because you know (or hope) they'll get there eventually.

[maestrowork]

They just want to see if you can write and open a story. So four, five -- whatever. The idea is that if the agent, upon reading the last page, says "Damn, I want to find out what happens next" you've got it.

[Jamesaritchie]

No agent or editor can tell whether a novel is publishable by reading the first four or five pages, but it is easy to see that a novel is not publishable by reading these pages. If they're really bad, the rest of the novel will usually be just as bad or worse. If they're good, you ask to see the complete manuscript.

In this case, I'd send five. This way the agent gets to see how chapter one ends, and how chapter two opens. This could make the difference.

[callalily61]

I send 5. My only tweak is to make sure 5 ends with a complete sentence.

[DeadlyAccurate]

I realize there's nothing we writers can really do about it, but I just don't know how a person can tell much about a manuscript based on only four pages. Seems to me you're just wasting your time as an agent if you request that small of an amount.

Why not? I make purchases based on that little amount. It's rare for me to read more than 2 or 3 pages before deciding whether to buy.

[Arkie]

I bet you could take the first five pages of all the Pulitzer Prize winners, retitle and submit under your name, and they would all be rejected, and that includes this year's winner, "The Road," by Cormac McCarthy.

[NicoleMD]

Why not? I make purchases based on that little amount. It's rare for me to read more than 2 or 3 pages before deciding whether to buy.

But you're only investing ten or twenty dollars in the book and not staking your livelihood on it. Plus someone else has already deemed the book at least somewhat worthy by the time it reaches the bookstore.

Nicole

[maestrowork]

In this case, I'd send five. This way the agent gets to see how chapter one ends, and how chapter two opens. This could make the difference.

That's an excellent point.

Send 5.

[ClaudiaGray]

I bet you could take the first five pages of all the Pulitzer Prize winners, retitle and submit under your name, and they would all be rejected, and that includes this year's winner, "The Road," by Cormac McCarthy.


I'm betting they'd all get a request for more pages, immediately. In the case of The Road, you'd need to know what's going on, but I'm also betting Mr. McCarthy could fashion a hook if he still needed to.

As Deadly Accurate said, we figure out whether we're interested in books based on pretty short samples: the back cover, the first few pages we look at, the general theme. (Obviously other considerations -- friend recommendations, good reviews -- are not available to the unpublished manuscript.) So that small sample isn't necessarily unfair.

I can imagine plenty of books in which there is a twist/hidden meaning/etc. that wouldn't be apparent in the first five pages, but that's what your query letter is for.

[NeuroFizz]

I agree with James as well. The "first five" is requested so the agent can see if a larger writing sample (possibly the full manuscript) should be requested. A positive decision on the overall suitability of the story will not be made on those five pages (although a decision in the opporite direction may well be made). So, give the agent exactly what he/she requests.

If you think the first page of the second chapter may not read as well as the first chapter, since it's taken out of the context of the entire chapter, maybe that second chapter needs a little more work. Ultimately an author should give the same care to every page of a manuscript--the same given to the first chapter, the first three chapters, or the first fifty pages (packets agents frequently request).

[Jamesaritchie]

I bet you could take the first five pages of all the Pulitzer Prize winners, retitle and submit under your name, and they would all be rejected, and that includes this year's winner, "The Road," by Cormac McCarthy.

I don't think you know how rare it is for an agent or editor to receive five pages that are even readable, let alone good.

[maestrowork]

First 5 and a synopsis tell the agent a lot what he or she needs to know -- enough for the agent to say "pass" or "let's read some more."

[Rob B]

I wish more agents would ask for 3-5 pages. All agents want to see, as least what the several I've had have told me, is related to style.

I think whether a writer sends three or four or four-and-a-half pages, the agent or editor will be able to make a decision, not about whether the story is going to work, but about the writer's basic skills. And by looking at a few pages, regardless of the number, at least this enables a writer to take one step beyond the "query letter only" stage. Which is a good thing, right?

[herdon]

I wish more agents would ask for 3-5 pages. All agents want to see, as least what the several I've had have told me, is related to style.


I agree except I wish that agents would ask for 1-2 pages in the proposal package along with the query and synopsis. I think that package is small enough not to overburden the agents while also allowing them to rule out many proposals they might request a partial (1-3 chapters) and subsequently reject within the first few paragraphs.

[Jamesaritchie]

I wish more agents would ask for 3-5 pages. All agents want to see, as least what the several I've had have told me, is related to style.

I think whether a writer sends three or four or four-and-a-half pages, the agent or editor will be able to make a decision, not about whether the story is going to work, but about the writer's basic skills. And by looking at a few pages, regardless of the number, at least this enables a writer to take one step beyond the "query letter only" stage. Which is a good thing, right?

Most agents will look at up to five pages, unless they specifically say "one page only." Miss Snark says sending up to five pages with your query is an "unwritten rule." I believe she's right. Nearly all the agents I've dealt with were more than happy to look at the first few pages, even when their guidelines say "query only."

A good rule of thumb is that if you can fit it into a #10 envelope, an agent or editor will almost certainly read it.

[Oliveman]

I already posted this in the other thread regarding the first 5 pages- but I will add it here too in case people are being exclusive in their reading of this topic :P

Listen, a request for the first 5 pages is simply to check on how effective the writer is at suspending disbelief at conveying a world, fictional or non-fictional, suspended by the author's words. Publishers want to know several things, and among them: how good is this writer at his craft? can he set up what seems to be shaping up to be a good story? Publishers want to put books out there that catch fire. This means those stories that people at the core of the reading community, once they read it, run to their friends, family, and neighbors and shove it in their face, exclaiming, "read this! You'll thank me." And by such means, seeded throughout the coutryside, good stories find their foothold. No publisher is flawless- J.K.Rowling got rejected from numerous publishers before her story stuck. It was, however, a good story well told- which is what we must all strive for. Don't worry about publishers as much as the story itself. Know your world, know your voice, know your aim, and craft a beautiful story. This is simply stated, but one of the hardest tasks in the world. It is, however, what we writers do.

Now, the whole first 5 pages business, like I said - bring the readers in to the way you tell your story. Don't fall into the trap, either, of dumping info here... for by putting trust in your readers, you build up a relationship of trust that carries readers, hopefully, to the end of your novel with few stopping points for eatting or sleeping. Publishers are making sure that you don't take excessive time doing this. Plot doesn't matter as much as being able to draw readers, and build that trust. For everyone the way this task is accomplished is different, but the mission is the same. Take hold of your reader and their emotions, and don't let them feel like coming up for air till the very end of your ride... and at that end, mark them forever with your tale.

[eskkar]

Hi,
just wondering if you've read Noah Lukeman's "The First Five Pages," which really explains how a top-flight literary agent examines your first few pages.
If you haven't read it, I'd give it a look.

eskkar

Author of 'Dawn of Empire' published by HarperCollins.

[job]

I'll vote for 5 pages.

The agent asks for 5. Give her 5.

She's not looking for suspense or getting into the story or being entertained. She's just looking at the writing.