"Formatting Cheats" -- are the following "cheats" okay??

[Plot Device]

All right. I have been doing THREE sneaky formatting tricks. And right now I wanna ask if they are okay to get away with. (And all three are the kind of cheats that make the script SHORTER not LONGER.)


1) The "space before" cheat on slug-lines, only when the slug-lines appear at the top of a page or the bottom of a page.


When you enter a new slug-line for a new scene, it is supposed to have two (2) blank lines prior to it instead of just one (1). In Final Draft it's called "space before" in the "Formatting" menu. For example:Tom gets in the boat and heaves off.


Mary stands and weeps, watching him row away.



EXT. VOLCANO SUMMIT - LATER


Mary throws herself in.
So, the slug-line for the "Volcano Summit" has two (2) blank lines before it instead of just one (1).

That's all well and good when the slug-line happens mid-way down a page. But Final Draft wants to insert that additional "space-before" thingy even if the slug-line falls at the very TOP if a page! And that's an entire frigging hard-return right there! Here's an illustration of what I mean. The line is the top of the page.

___________________________________________







EXT. VOLCANO SUMMIT - LATER


Mary throws herself in.
So, I have been manually correcting that by reformatting any such top-of-the-page slug-lines so that instead of "Scene Heading" they are "Action" elements. And that eliminates the extra hard-return.


___________________________________________





EXT. VOLCANO SUMMIT - LATER


Mary throws herself in.

The down-side is that it messes up your "Note Cards" (for anyone here who uses the "Note Card" feature in Final Draft).



It also happens at the BOTTOM of a page. And that's even MORE infuriating because that can add up to MULITPLE hard returns. Here's the way Final Draft wants to format it with loads and loads of white-space at the bottom of the page, doing absolutely NOTHING:Tom gets in the boat and heaves off.


Mary stands and weeps, watching him row away.









__________________________________________






EXT. VOLCANO SUMMIT - LATER


Mary throws herself in.










But here's how I fix it:

Tom gets in the boat and heaves off.


Mary stands and weeps, watching him row away.



EXT. VOLCANO SUMMIT - LATER





__________________________________________





Mary throws herself in.
So, I save a lot of negative space that way-- save two (2) or three (3) or more (!) hard-returns. I once again have to re-cast the slug-line as an "Action" instead of a "Scene Heading." And then I have to manually reset the "space before" attribute for that "Action" line as two (2) spaces before instead of just one (1). But .... it that "okay"??? Is it "okay" to have a lonely slug-line at the bottom of a page and nothing after it?





2) The "hyphenating-words" cheat.

Sometimes (especially in dialog paragraphs) I'll have an excrutiatingly long word that takes up an excrutiatingly wide swath of space. And I wind up with a dialog paragraph three (3) lines long.

....................TOM
..........This word is just too
..........excrutiatingly long. It needs
..........some help!

And so I hyphenate it to get it down to just two (2).

....................TOM
..........This word is just too excruciat-
..........ingly long. It needs some help!
..........

Is that bad???




3) The "invisible periods" cheat.

And sometimes, at the bottom of a page, a sentence runs on and Final Draft doesn't want sentence fragments. So it bumps the whole sentence onto the following page. And I again have all that wasted space.

....................MARY
..........I can't take it any loger, Tom!
..........We've been here for two years and
..........all we eat is coconuts and fish!









__________________________________________________ _____






...Just onJust once I'd like to go out to a
..........nice restaurant with a band and a
..........maitre de and linen table cloths
..........and a wine list and powder room and
..........-- and -- and I wanna see a show!
..........That's right! I said a show!










So, here's how I fix it. I hide an invisible "period" mid-way into a sentence to trick Final Draft into thinking I have a complete sentence. And that way I fill out the remaining negtive space all the way to the bottom. (My period here is in RED, but I either cast it white or shrink it down to just 1 point)


....................MARY
..........I can't take it any loger, Tom!
..........We've been here for two years and
..........all we eat is coconuts and fish!
...Just onJust once I'd like to go out to a
..........nice restaurant with a band and a
..........maitre de and linen table cloths
..........and a wine list and powder room and.





__________________________________________________ ____





..........-- and -- and I wanna see a show!
..........That's right! I said a show!





Is THAT bad???

[dpaterso]

Hmm.

1) If you click on a Scene Heading (so the cursor is on the line) and select Format / Spacing Before you can choose 1 instead of 2, which is a local cheat for just that element. Or so it appears -- I just tried this and it seems to work. Re having a Scene Heading as the last line on the page, without action following directly, you're deliberately orphaning elements and it just doesn't look right.

2) If it pleases you then do it, but it's just cosmetic, you're the only person who cares about this. :) If you or anyone else edits the dialogue in future, you/they will have to watch out for this.

3) Have you tried Document / Page Layout / Options tab / untick Break dialogue and action at sentences? Although if this works, and you're deliberately breaking up sentences when going over the page, this isn't going to make for an easy read. Edit: not sure about this one... the theory's there but the entire action block keeps moving onto the next page despite unticking... Further edit: stupid me, this option is to allow breaking of action blocks, it can't break in mid-sentence.

-Derek

[icerose]

Have you tried looking at the story itself and leave the formatting alone?

From what I read in the SYW your story needs a LOT of cutting and tightening. For real though, not monkeying around with the formatting.

Nip and tuck your script, make the story tighter, make the dialog punchier. It will become more gripping if you do. You want quick pages, which means lots of white space. You want almost as much white space as you do black space. Go read a script, one from your favorite movie. Pay attention to how it looks, pay attention to how it feels. Study the action, study the dialog, and compare it to your own. Take into consideration that each writer has their own style which is why you should read several scripts.

[zeprosnepsid]

The hyphenated word looks downright strange to me.

But yeah, I'd stick to regular formatting whenever possible.

[Plot Device]

Nobody has said if it will merit a rejection.

[dpaterso]

Nobody has said if it will merit a rejection.
If what will merit a rejection? A deleted blank line? A hyphen? :Huh:

-Derek

[nmstevens]

All right. I have been doing THREE sneaky formatting tricks. And right now I wanna ask if they are okay to get away with. (And all three are the kind of cheats that make the script SHORTER not LONGER.)


1) The "space before" cheat on slug-lines, only when the slug-lines appear at the top of a page or the bottom of a page.



When you enter a new slug-line for a new scene, it is supposed to have two (2) blank lines prior to it instead of just one (1). In Final Draft it's called "space before" in the "Formatting" menu. For example:Tom gets in the boat and heaves off.

Mary stands and weeps, watching him row away.


EXT. VOLCANO SUMMIT - LATER

Mary throws herself in. So, the slug-line for the "Volcano Summit" has two (2) blank lines before it instead of just one (1).

That's all well and good when the slug-line happens mid-way down a page. But Final Draft wants to insert that additional "space-before" thingy even if the slug-line falls at the very TOP if a page! And that's an entire frigging hard-return right there! Here's an illustration of what I mean. The line is the top of the page.

___________________________________________







EXT. VOLCANO SUMMIT - LATER

Mary throws herself in. So, I have been manually correcting that by reformatting any such top-of-the-page slug-lines so that instead of "Scene Heading" they are "Action" elements. And that eliminates the extra hard-return.


___________________________________________





EXT. VOLCANO SUMMIT - LATER

Mary throws herself in.
The down-side is that it messes up your "Note Cards" (for anyone here who uses the "Note Card" feature in Final Draft).




It also happens at the BOTTOM of a page. And that's even MORE infuriating because that can add up to MULITPLE hard returns. Here's the way Final Draft wants to format it with loads and loads of white-space at the bottom of the page, doing absolutely NOTHING:Tom gets in the boat and heaves off.

Mary stands and weeps, watching him row away.








__________________________________________





EXT. VOLCANO SUMMIT - LATER

Mary throws herself in.









But here's how I fix it:

Tom gets in the boat and heaves off.

Mary stands and weeps, watching him row away.


EXT. VOLCANO SUMMIT - LATER




__________________________________________




Mary throws herself in. So, I save a lot of negative space that way-- save two (2) or three (3) or more (!) hard-returns. I once again have to re-cast the slug-line as an "Action" instead of a "Scene Heading." And then I have to manually reset the "space before" attribute for that "Action" line as two (2) spaces before instead of just one (1). But .... it that "okay"??? Is it "okay" to have a lonely slug-line at the bottom of a page and nothing after it?





2) The "hyphenating-words" cheat.

Sometimes (especially in dialog paragraphs) I'll have an excrutiatingly long word that takes up an excrutiatingly wide swath of space. And I wind up with a dialog paragraph three (3) lines long.

....................TOM
..........This word is just too
..........excrutiatingly long. It needs
..........some help!

And so I hyphenate it to get it down to just two (2).

....................TOM
..........This word is just too excruciat-
..........ingly long. It needs some help!
..........

Is that bad???




3) The "invisible periods" cheat.

And sometimes, at the bottom of a page, a sentence runs on and Final Draft doesn't want sentence fragments. So it bumps the whole sentence onto the following page. And I again have all that wasted space.

....................MARY
..........I can't take it any loger, Tom!
..........We've been here for two years and
..........all we eat is coconuts and fish!









__________________________________________________ _____






...Just onJust once I'd like to go out to a
..........nice restaurant with a band and a
..........maitre de and linen table cloths
..........and a wine list and powder room and
..........-- and -- and I wanna see a show!
..........That's right! I said a show!










So, here's how I fix it. I hide an invisible "period" mid-way into a sentence to trick Final Draft into thinking I have a complete sentence. And that way I fill out the remaining negtive space all the way to the bottom. (My period here is in RED, but I either cast it white or shrink it down to just 1 point)


....................MARY
..........I can't take it any loger, Tom!
..........We've been here for two years and
..........all we eat is coconuts and fish!
...Just onJust once I'd like to go out to a
..........nice restaurant with a band and a
..........maitre de and linen table cloths
..........and a wine list and powder room and.





__________________________________________________ ____





..........-- and -- and I wanna see a show!
..........That's right! I said a show!





Is THAT bad???


I just don't use the double space after the slug lines. I haven't done it in twenty years of screenwriting. It isn't a strict formatting requirement so it isn't cheating not to do it. The problem with removing it at the tops and bottoms of pages as you suggest is that every single time you edit your script those orphaned removals are going to move around, which means that you'll have, here and there throughout the script, sluglines with single spaces mixed in amidst the sluglines followed by double spaces, which you'll have to go through by eye, track down and fix -- every time you add or subtract so much as a single line, which, if you have any experience with Final Draft, can sometimes have that odd "cascading" effect -- it bumps text from one page, which then bumps text to the next page, and the next and the next and the next.

We've all seen the result of adding a couple lines in just the right place -- and suddenly the entire script is half a page longer -- or conversely removing a couple lines in just the right place and the script shrinks a half a page.

Regarding splitting words -- it's generally not done, even though I agree it may look aesthetically pleasing. These things are meant for actors to read, primarily, and splitting words in that way makes it harder.

Also, leaving a slug line as an orphan at the bottom of the page is also not considered acceptable. Slug lines are the equivalent of titles. It would be the same as putting "CHAPTER TEN" as the last line at the bottom of the page and starting the chapter at the top of the next page.

However -- that business of putting invisible periods in the middle of the dialogue to help more effectively split it up to keep from having great big chunks of white space -- that's not such a bad idea.

NMS

[Plot Device]

If what will merit a rejection? A deleted blank line? A hyphen? :Huh:

-Derek

The whole point of this thread is "What can I get away with?" :)

[Plot Device]

I just don't use the double space after the slug lines. I haven't done it in twenty years of screenwriting. It isn't a strict formatting requirement so it isn't cheating not to do it.

Double-space before or double-space after???


The problem with removing it at the tops and bottoms of pages as you suggest is that every single time you edit your script those orphaned removals are going to move around, which means that you'll have, here and there throughout the script, sluglines with single spaces mixed in amidst the sluglines followed by double spaces, which you'll have to go through by eye, track down and fix -- every time you add or subtract so much as a single line, which, if you have any experience with Final Draft, can sometimes have that odd "cascading" effect -- it bumps text from one page, which then bumps text to the next page, and the next and the next and the next.

We've all seen the result of adding a couple lines in just the right place -- and suddenly the entire script is half a page longer -- or conversely removing a couple lines in just the right place and the script shrinks a half a page.

I have been coloring all my "doctored" scene headings red. So when they slide around, I find them later and set them straight again. ;)


Regarding splitting words -- it's generally not done, even though I agree it may look aesthetically pleasing. These things are meant for actors to read, primarily, and splitting words in that way makes it harder.

Will a reader who is NOT an actor care? Or even notice?

Also, leaving a slug line as an orphan at the bottom of the page is also not considered acceptable. Slug lines are the equivalent of titles. It would be the same as putting "CHAPTER TEN" as the last line at the bottom of the page and starting the chapter at the top of the next page.

Okay. I can fix that.

However -- that business of putting invisible periods in the middle of the dialogue to help more effectively split it up to keep from having great big chunks of white space -- that's not such a bad idea.

:D

[NikeeGoddess]

Nobody has said if it will merit a rejection.

you still asking this ridiculous question? we are not the people who will make those decisions. however, ANYTHING can and probably will merit a rejection. especially long winded and boring speeches in a script.

the only thing that won't merit a rejection is a great and well written story, and then it must be in the write hands. and finding those write hands is no easy marketing task.

Nobody has said if it will merit a rejection.

when you print your script FD will run a formatting error and point them all out for you to fix before you print. if it will do it on your computer then it will do it on a producer's computer as well.

cheating is the lazy way. work on your story and forget about cheating. remember, you (and the rest of us) are competing with thousands of other writers... seasoned writers who've already figured out how to write a winning script, have won contests, have had scripts optioned and/or produced. we all have to work harder then them because they already have a foot in the door. they can get a read.

[Plot Device]

you still asking this ridiculous question?

This is why.

[Plot Device]

Have you tried looking at the story itself and leave the formatting alone?

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .... lets' see ... I think I have made no less than five posts here at these forums where I have stated that three weeks ago the script was originally 270 pages and has since been reduced to 240 220 180 160 144 132.

Yes. I have edited the story.

From what I read in the SYW your story needs a LOT of cutting and tightening. For real though, not monkeying around with the formatting.

I have.

Nip and tuck your script, make the story tighter, make the dialog punchier.

I have.


But these "cheats" I am itemizing here in this thread have halped me shed about three entire pages. If a script at 123 isn't acceptable but 120 is, then I'm gonna do these cheats. Unless someone here can tell me from experience: "YES! IT WILL GET REJECTED!"

[Joe Calabrese]

But these "cheats" I am itemizing here in this thread have halped me shed about three entire pages. If a script at 123 isn't acceptable but 120 is, then I'm gonna do these cheats. Unless someone here can tell me from experience: "YES! IT WILL GET REJECTED!"

No person here or anywhere can tell you what will get rejected or not. Even producers will tell you different things. Some producers could care less about grammar, some swear by it as the mark of a good writer.

Finding Forester won Nichol even though it was poorly spelled and has lots of typos. Kangaroo Jack as bad as it was (on sooo many levels), was made into a film. One producer's trash is another's treasure. No one can tell you what is acceptable. It's personal taste.

The initial reader has power and some scripts get rejected for far less than cheating pages and some really badly formatted scripts get all the way up the ladder to greenlit status.

It all depends on the reader, his or her mood when reading, his or her experience and knowledge, and what has been told to them by their boss for what to look for.

It also depends on the strength of your story and characters.

Most important-- it depends on whether it is the right story for that producer at that particular point in time. A great story may get passed if the producer has no budget for it. It may get passed if they already have three or more scripts recently optioned or bought, it may get passed it the producer doesn't do that particular genre or era or character types.

And yes, it may get passed if you cheat the pages.

The point is to write your script as best as it can be with the greatest economy or words. Eliminate as many "pass" elements as possible and market it to the right producer at the right time.

Elf was shopped around with no success for over ten years, until the writer got notoriety as a Disney Fellow and then sold it based on the fact that he was now an up-and-comer. Same script, just different circumstances and eyes that read it with a new perspective.

[Plot Device]

Okay Joe, you're saying "maybe." You're also suggesting that it's only one possibile reason for a rejection on a broad landscape of possibilities. And that some readers don't give a rip while others do. And so luck plays a factor.

Okay. I can deal with that. :cool:

And at this point, I'm keeping all of the above-mentioned cheats EXECPT for the "orphan scene headings" at the page bottoms that nmstevens warned against.

[nmstevens]

3) The "invisible periods" cheat.

And sometimes, at the bottom of a page, a sentence runs on and Final Draft doesn't want sentence fragments. So it bumps the whole sentence onto the following page. And I again have all that wasted space.

....................MARY
..........I can't take it any loger, Tom!
..........We've been here for two years and
..........all we eat is coconuts and fish!









__________________________________________________ _____






...Just onJust once I'd like to go out to a
..........nice restaurant with a band and a
..........maitre de and linen table cloths
..........and a wine list and powder room and
..........-- and -- and I wanna see a show!
..........That's right! I said a show!










So, here's how I fix it. I hide an invisible "period" mid-way into a sentence to trick Final Draft into thinking I have a complete sentence. And that way I fill out the remaining negtive space all the way to the bottom. (My period here is in RED, but I either cast it white or shrink it down to just 1 point)


....................MARY
..........I can't take it any loger, Tom!
..........We've been here for two years and
..........all we eat is coconuts and fish!
...Just onJust once I'd like to go out to a
..........nice restaurant with a band and a
..........maitre de and linen table cloths
..........and a wine list and powder room and.





__________________________________________________ ____





..........-- and -- and I wanna see a show!
..........That's right! I said a show!





Is THAT bad???[/quote]

Regarding this last one -- it just occured to me that Final Draft allows you to reset the default so that it won't break either dialogue or text at sentence stops. I know that this default always bothers me, not because of its effect on page count but because, in reading it, it sometimes causes confusion as to whether a particular character has stopped talking and another character has started.

That is, when you're reading the script and it reads like this.

JOE
Let's get going.
(cont'd)


And on the next page:

JOE (CONT'D)
We've got to get to the hospital and see if
Marcy is all right.

If you're reading fast, it's easy to jump over it and think that you're reading dialogue from two characters rather than one.


Whereas, if it reads:


JOE
Let's get going. We've got to get to the

(cont'd)


And on the next page:

JOE (CONT'D)
hospital and see if Marcy is all right.

Then it's instantly obvious that the dialogue continues across the page break.


Of course, it also has the effect of saving you some space, but this is not a formatting cheat as, so far as I know, nobody explicitly requires the page break on the end of a sentence.

Some may prefer it, because it makes it a bit easier when you're doing A and B pages, but that's really not your problem.

NMS

[Plot Device]

Regarding this last one -- it just occured to me that Final Draft allows you to reset the default so that it won't break either dialogue or text at sentence stops. I know that this default always bothers me, not because of its effect on page count but because, in reading it, it sometimes causes confusion as to whether a particular character has stopped talking and another character has started.

That is, when you're reading the script and it reads like this.

JOE
Let's get going.
(cont'd)


And on the next page:

JOE (CONT'D)
We've got to get to the hospital and see if
Marcy is all right.

If you're reading fast, it's easy to jump over it and think that you're reading dialogue from two characters rather than one.


Whereas, if it reads:


JOE
Let's get going. We've got to get to the

(cont'd)


And on the next page:

JOE (CONT'D)
hospital and see if Marcy is all right.

Then it's instantly obvious that the dialogue continues across the page break.


Of course, it also has the effect of saving you some space, but this is not a formatting cheat as, so far as I know, nobody explicitly requires the page break on the end of a sentence.

Some may prefer it, because it makes it a bit easier when you're doing A and B pages, but that's really not your problem.

NMS


I think depaterso said the same thing. So I need to find that functionality in the formatting menu. That'll save me a lot of manual work-arounds.

Thanks. :cool:

[Bartholomew]

Don't obsess over formatting. Write a damn good manuscript, and then follow a formatting guide later on.

[Plot Device]

Don't obsess over formatting. Write a damn good manuscript, and then follow a formatting guide later on.

I already wrote a complete movie script. Now I need to shorten that script down to an acceptable length. And part of making it shorter can include the choices I make in formatting it.

[jonpiper]

Plot, you sound like a contractor who's trying to build a house that's too big for the lot.

The city has height and set back restrictions and you want to push the limits, want to build right up to the limits rather than redesign it. Cut out a room, make the rooms a little smaller, the roof flatter, add a basement, etc.

[Plot Device]

Plot, you sound like a contractor who's trying to build a house that's too big for the lot.

The city has height and set back restrictions and you want to push the limits, want to build right up to the limits rather than redesign it. Cut out a room, make the rooms a little smaller, the roof flatter, add a basement, etc.


[insert appropriate curse word here]

I have!!!!! Why will no one give me credit for having eliminated an entire 138 pages???? http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Jamesaritchie]

The thing is, you're still trying to hide excess length, rather than finding a way to cut the excess length.

There simply is no reason to take a chance. Cut the excess length, and you won't have to worry about finding cheats on format. My guess is that the time spent looking for cheats could be why you still have cut enough.

The thing is this. You need to forget all about how much you've already cut. It's gone, so it's meaningless. You have a script that's only a few pages too long now, and these extra pages can be cut without harming the script.

[Joe Calabrese]

I'll give you credit.

Way to go!

Now keep cutting and when you get it to 119 and a half pages, brag about how great a story it is, not how many pages you cut out of it.

[scripter1]

on point number 3, Invisible period.

Why don't you 1) tighten up the DIALOG!!

Take out any extra words, or nonvital thoughts. Anything that the audience/characters allready know OR can infer from the scene.

I can't take it any loger, Tom!
..........We've been here for two years and
..........all we eat is coconuts and fish!

I'm done Tom!
Two years of coconuts
and fish! I wanna go
to a restaurant, eat
on a tablecloth, have
some wine.

2) Add in an action break to bridge the cap between the break in the dialog.

_________________________________________________ _____


Mary chucks a rock into the water, then wheels on Tom.

MARY
I wanna see a show!

and powder room and
..........-- and -- and I wanna see a show!
..........That's right! I said a show!

If you've set up the context of the scene and the characters well enough then you won't need to say as much in the dialog. A writer ends up with lengthy dialog blocks because they are trying to give us all the info just with speaking lines.

[Plot Device]

I'll give you credit.

Way to go!

Now keep cutting and when you get it to 119 and a half pages, brag about how great a story it is, not how many pages you cut out of it.


:tongue

[Plot Device]

The thing is, you're still trying to hide excess length, rather than finding a way to cut the excess length.

There simply is no reason to take a chance. Cut the excess length, and you won't have to worry about finding cheats on format. My guess is that the time spent looking for cheats could be why you still have cut enough.

The thing is this. You need to forget all about how much you've already cut. It's gone, so it's meaningless. You have a script that's only a few pages too long now, and these extra pages can be cut without harming the script.

I guess I'm looking at my script like this:

I have THREE suitcases to pack for my flight. Act 1, Act 2, and Act 3, and all three of those suitcases turned out to be smaller than I thought.

I have already packed the suitcase labeled "Act 1" as tightly as I can. It's 29 pages and there's not one molecule of airspace left in that suitcase. It's as dense as a diamond. So I have to concentrate on the other two now. I have thrown out a lot. And I'm squashing down the lids, trying to close both suitcases, trying to get them to shut, and I'm VERY close now. SOOOOO close.

So I'm asking about these tiny shortcuts. These very small cheats.

I'm just a little pissed off at people not giving me credit for what I've accomplished so far. And how quickly I accomplished it.

But you're saying I should NOT take a chance at all here. You're also very confident that I can get it down to 119 WITHOUT the cheats. Okay. I can deal with that.

I guess the best I can say is that I think your confidence is very encouraging.

[Plot Device]

FWIW, I posted my revised first-ten pages in SYW just now.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65058

[Plot Device]

I just got some wonderful feedback on my first ten via PM! :cool:

[RainbowDragon]

Of your suggested "cheats", from what I understand slug lines can be double or triple-spaced, doesn't make a difference and really it will only save you maybe a page or two per 100 pages of text.

The hyphenated words seem cumbersome and hard to read. I wouldn't try it, and breaking up sentences at page breaks or hanging slug lines without at least 2 lines (ending on a complete sentence) beneath them is a definite no-no.

Anything you can "get away with" unfortunately = following the standard conventions.

It's not about discouraging anyone from taking a chance, it's about giving your script the best chance. You don't want to have 2 strikes against you before the reader starts reading; it's hard enough to get reads from seriously interested people at all, you want your writing to shine, and the best way to do that is to conform to the standards. When you're making $1M per spec, you can break more rules but by then you may not feel the need to do so.

[Jamesaritchie]

I guess I'm looking at my script like this:

I have THREE suitcases to pack for my flight. Act 1, Act 2, and Act 3, and all three of those suitcases turned out to be smaller than I thought.

I have already packed the suitcase labeled "Act 1" as tightly as I can. It's 29 pages and there's not one molecule of airspace left in that suitcase. It's as dense as a diamond. So I have to concentrate on the other two now. I have thrown out a lot. And I'm squashing down the lids, trying to close both suitcases, trying to get them to shut, and I'm VERY close now. SOOOOO close.

So I'm asking about these tiny shortcuts. These very small cheats.

I'm just a little pissed off at people not giving me credit for what I've accomplished so far. And how quickly I accomplished it.

But you're saying I should NOT take a chance at all here. You're also very confident that I can get it down to 119 WITHOUT the cheats. Okay. I can deal with that.

I guess the best I can say is that I think your confidence is very encouraging.

I think what you've done so far is great, you are getting credit for it, but what you've done so far still isn't enough.

It's like running a marathon. You can get lots of credit for running twenty-six miles, but unless you run the final two tenths of a mile, you haven't finished. You can't cheat on the final two tenths of a mile, you can't grab a cab and say, "I ran twenty-six miles, so I should be allowed to cheat on the last eighty-eight yards."

Even if you have covered twenty-six grueling miles, you still have to find a way to run those last eighty-eight yards.

It may be you need to set the things aside for a month or so. It can be cut. There is no such thing as a script that can't be cut down to perfect size.

What you've done so far is great, but you haven't finished the marathon. You still have eighty-eight yards to run.

[Plot Device]

It's not about discouraging anyone from taking a chance, it's about giving your script the best chance.

:)

[Plot Device]

I think what you've done so far is great, you are getting credit for it, but what you've done so far still isn't enough.

It's like running a marathon. You can get lots of credit for running twenty-six miles, but unless you run the final two tenths of a mile, you haven't finished. You can't cheat on the final two tenths of a mile, you can't grab a cab and say, "I ran twenty-six miles, so I should be allowed to cheat on the last eighty-eight yards."

Even if you have covered twenty-six grueling miles, you still have to find a way to run those last eighty-eight yards.

It may be you need to set the things aside for a month or so. It can be cut. There is no such thing as a script that can't be cut down to perfect size.

What you've done so far is great, but you haven't finished the marathon. You still have eighty-eight yards to run.


Thanks JAR. (Can I call you "Jar-head"? ;) )

[Jamesaritchie]

Thanks JAR. (Can I call you "Jar-head"? ;) )

Funny, but that's actually my nickname around home.

[scripter1]

you've done a great job and you are to be commended for the progress you've made. You've come a long way.

We are NOT going to coddle you though.
We aren't here to baby you.
So get a thick skin and suck it up.

THIS is what makes screenwriting hard. And as "Jarhead" said (GREAT annalogy) you've got to go the last mile.

I think it is great advice for you to set the script aside for a little while and learn some more of the solid tricks of the trade.
Study how a scene/dialog does several things at once.
Study how characters are combined to shorten things up.
Study how scripts/scenes infer things with out actually telling them.
Etc.

Those aren't cheats, they are craft secrets that you have to understand and work to your advantage.

One of the things I would REALLY suggest you do is go back over ALL your dialog. Take out ALL the polite little words, the formal speech patterns, the extra info.
If two characters know each other cut all chit-chat, all greetings, ANY telling of info that those two all ready know.
Anything that smacks of "As you know Bob, we've been working together....."

And finally, if you really want something little and easy to do to cut those last three pages look for parens to remove any chads or orphans.
Look for one word taking up a single
line.

[Plot Device]

Funny, but that's actually my nickname around home.


:cool:

[Plot Device]

THIS is what makes screenwriting hard. And as "Jarhead" said (GREAT annalogy) you've got to go the last mile.

I think it is great advice for you to set the script aside for a little while and learn some more of the solid tricks of the trade.
Study how a scene/dialog does several things at once.
Study how characters are combined to shorten things up.
Study how scripts/scenes infer things with out actually telling them.
Etc.

Those aren't cheats, they are craft secrets that you have to understand and work to your advantage.

One of the things I would REALLY suggest you do is go back over ALL your dialog. Take out ALL the polite little words, the formal speech patterns, the extra info.
If two characters know each other cut all chit-chat, all greetings, ANY telling of info that those two all ready know.
Anything that smacks of "As you know Bob, we've been working together....."

And finally, if you really want something little and easy to do to cut those last three pages look for parens to remove any chads or orphans.
Look for one word taking up a single
line.


I've actually done ALL of the above already (how do you think I killed over 130 pages?)

[scripter1]

maybe by wonking the format?

[scripter1]

seriousness.

You are just 3 pages too long?
Is that where you are at now?

Hmm.
You say you've shortened your dialog. Run through it again.
Tighten up EVERY line that you can. Set yourself a limit of ONLY three lines
per dialog block. Unless it's an actual speech don't cut yourself any slack.

Frag your sentences. When ever you've got a scene with action that speeds up, where the pacing should accelerate then use fragmented sentences. Take out all the connecters, the and's, the's, are's, and as many ing's as you can. (keep it readable, you don't want nonsense)

And then, play the Different Hat game.
Put on your costume designer hat. Read the script. Are there any places where the writer is doing YOUR job, stepping on YOUR toes? Now you are the Set designer. The director. The lighting tech. Are there sentences that are overwritten by a writer trying (very subconciously) to control the film?

And finally, it may be time for some outside help.
To hand the whole script over for some detailed feedback. Unless we read the whole thing we really can't tell you where your subplot is bloated or how a character is given too much story or how one sequence runs a page two long.
You need someone who can look at the script as a whole.

There are peer sites that may, I say MAY, help you out. Try Zoetrope or Triggerstreet.
You can swape scripts with other writers, tell them you now the length is the problem.
And there are fellow writers who read scripts for a small fee.
(a topic search will pull up plenty.)

Good luck with this.
Let us know when you hit the magic number and we'll throw a party for you.

[ALLWritety]

hi S1,
I have read the whole epic 270 page script and have been helping PD in reducing it. I have gotten it down to 122 pages. Still wittling it down!
see my other post in PD Revised 10 pages in SYW.

[Plot Device]

Frag your sentences. When ever you've got a scene with action that speeds up, where the pacing should accelerate then use fragmented sentences. Take out all the connecters, the and's, the's, are's, and as many ing's as you can. (keep it readable, you don't want nonsense)

And then, play the Different Hat game.
Put on your costume designer hat. Read the script. Are there any places where the writer is doing YOUR job, stepping on YOUR toes? Now you are the Set designer. The director. The lighting tech. Are there sentences that are overwritten by a writer trying (very subconciously) to control the film?


I did ALL of that. :(


There are peer sites that may, I say MAY, help you out. Try Zoetrope or Triggerstreet.
You can swape scripts with other writers, tell them you now the length is the problem.
And there are fellow writers who read scripts for a small fee.
(a topic search will pull up plenty.)

KCpotatohead is trying to kill pages for me. He he says he's gotten it down to 122 at his end. I have't seen his version yet. But that's a phenomenal amount of work he's done.

Good luck with this.
Let us know when you hit the magic number and we'll throw a party for you.

I will. :)

[Plot Device]

hi S1,
I have read the whole epic 270 page script and have been helping PD in reducing it. I have gotten it down to 122 pages. Still wittling it down!
see my other post in PD Revised 10 pages in SYW.


Thanks, KC. :)

My only sacred cow is Doctor Vincente. He is the one I am refusing to cut. If anything I need to know what you did with his dialogue. I don't have the heart to cut ANY of him, but I know I need to. I can easilly pull three pages out of his dialogue alone.

[ALLWritety]

Hi PD
I have sent you the 122.
page version. Please confirm you got it.

Kev

[Plot Device]

Hi PD
I have sent you the 122.
page version. Please confirm you got it.

Kev


Whoops! okay! I didn't know. I'll go check my e-mails. :)