Death Scenes

[zeprosnepsid]

I was working on my current work-in-progress and got to the death scene and moaned -- is there anyway I can make this more interesting?

It's a common scene: There's someone sick in a bed, and a loved one in a chair nearby. The dying one gives some words of wisdom....then dies. I'm fine with the words of wisdom, they're necessary for the film, but is there a better way to make them die?

Movie Methods of Death:

death by head jerk: their eyes gloss over, their head falls to the side

death by hand: their hand slowly loses grip and slides away

death by fade out: you are looking from the patient's point of view and then the world fades out

death by metaphor: a candle going out, their favorite breakable item breaks, etc...

death by editing: says their last words, cut to sheet being pulled over their head or something like that.

This is all the options I could come up with -- you got any other ideas?

[Plot Device]

The plant died in E.T. But I suppose that's akin to something breaking.

[AFS]

I'd say that's metaphor.

But this isn't the productive area of discussion.

[dpaterso]

The sitting character talks about something really important that would provide much-needed emotional closure -- then realizes the fading character has died O.S. and hasn't heard a damn word.

-Derek

[Bmwhtly]

Yup, this set-up has been done lots. All the stylised tricks (Like under-scoring the scene with heartbeat that stops) have been done too often to be really interesting.
I don't have any real suggestions, just thought I'd point out that your gonna have to be inventive to make it fresh

[bluejester12]

I think this is one of those things that the emotional wieght carries on the build-up to this moment and the actor's performance.

[jonpiper]

I would let my story dictate the manner of death. Ask yourself what is the purpose of the scene? What do you want to accomplish with the scene? Why do you want to show this person's death? How does showing the death fit into the story? What do you want to reveal through the manner of death? Do you want to reveal character or plot?

[nmstevens]

I was working on my current work-in-progress and got to the death scene and moaned -- is there anyway I can make this more interesting?

It's a common scene: There's someone sick in a bed, and a loved one in a chair nearby. The dying one gives some words of wisdom....then dies. I'm fine with the words of wisdom, they're necessary for the film, but is there a better way to make them die?

Movie Methods of Death:

death by head jerk: their eyes gloss over, their head falls to the side

death by hand: their hand slowly loses grip and slides away

death by fade out: you are looking from the patient's point of view and then the world fades out

death by metaphor: a candle going out, their favorite breakable item breaks, etc...

death by editing: says their last words, cut to sheet being pulled over their head or something like that.

This is all the options I could come up with -- you got any other ideas?

All of those things might happen to anybody.

The question that you have to answer is this.

Who is this person that is dying? Obviously, that person doesn't have a choice in the fact that he's about to die.

But he does have a choice in how he goes about it.

In "Only Angels Have Wings" the dying man asks his friends to go outside so that he can die alone -- he's never done it before and he doesn't want them watching in case he "does it wrong."

In "I Remember Mama" Uncle Kris has his (secret) wife and niece "finish the bottle" with him, so that he won't leave any of it undrunk before he goes.

Or the really moving moment (not exactly a death scene) in the Magnificent Ambersons -- simply a close-up of the Old General, voices off screen, talking to him about earthly matters, while he more or less talks to himself, "They say the earth came out of the sun, so it must be the sun --" in his fading time literally trying to figure out the secrets of the universe.

Look to the character, who knows that he's dying. Sure everybody wants to give words of wisdom. But let's face it -- okay, we've given the words of wisdom. It's great to think that, now the words have been given, right on cue, our eyes will close, our heads will tip forward, Adios.

But I severely doubt that it happens that way.

Now the words have been given, you've got to sit, and think and wait -- and you've got to deal with your own stuff -- your own oncoming death, your own life that's just passed and whether it was worth it or not. Are you scared? Did you do well? Do you think that anything is really going to happen next?

What do you think about? What do you have to say?

That's where you find what to write about -- not the little metaphor of the candle blowing out or the watch that stops ticking.

NMS

[zeprosnepsid]

Well I guess a little more info on the death in question is needed. It's a sort of Campbellian death-of-mentor so that the hero now has to go it alone. Therefore it's almost dramatically necessary that the mentor leave some parting words of importance (in a situation such as this, whatever they say will be of great importance to the hero).

To counteract nms' use of 'he', it's worth noting that they're both women =) And it's a period film. The arc of the main heroine is from a life of frivolity to one of self-sufficientness (think Gone With The Wind or what I think remember about Cold Mountain). And once the mentor passes, she must make decisions on her own, with conviction.

The "Only Angels Have Wings" scene is really interesting I think - great example - but not useful for me. I suppose I could have something where they are talking and then cut to the hero contemplating, alone. It would be good to juxtapose the death scene with a scene of the hero in some place where the mentor would usually be, but alone, to signify how they must go it alone from this point on.

But the point being, is that the death scene is really a convention at this point and people expect to see some death or some metaphor of it. I feel like you cannot deny them that or they'll be pretty unhappy about it. It's just such a stale scene. I mean there's nothing wrong with the eyes glazing over and the head falling to the side -- I've cried and had an emotional connection with many such a scene -- it was just such a groan to write. I still wonder if there isn't any other way this could be done.

But I suppose you don't need to innovate every scene so long as the emotional and meaning are there. Still, the end of my death scene remains blank because who knows when I'll find the interest to write "Her eyes glaze over and her head slowly falls to the side. [Hero] knows she has gone...."

[nmstevens]

Well I guess a little more info on the death in question is needed. It's a sort of Campbellian death-of-mentor so that the hero now has to go it alone. Therefore it's almost dramatically necessary that the mentor leave some parting words of importance (in a situation such as this, whatever they say will be of great importance to the hero).

To counteract nms' use of 'he', it's worth noting that they're both women =) And it's a period film. The arc of the main heroine is from a life of frivolity to one of self-sufficientness (think Gone With The Wind or what I think remember about Cold Mountain). And once the mentor passes, she must make decisions on her own, with conviction.

The "Only Angels Have Wings" scene is really interesting I think - great example - but not useful for me. I suppose I could have something where they are talking and then cut to the hero contemplating, alone. It would be good to juxtapose the death scene with a scene of the hero in some place where the mentor would usually be, but alone, to signify how they must go it alone from this point on.

But the point being, is that the death scene is really a convention at this point and people expect to see some death or some metaphor of it. I feel like you cannot deny them that or they'll be pretty unhappy about it. It's just such a stale scene. I mean there's nothing wrong with the eyes glazing over and the head falling to the side -- I've cried and had an emotional connection with many such a scene -- it was just such a groan to write. I still wonder if there isn't any other way this could be done.

But I suppose you don't need to innovate every scene so long as the emotional and meaning are there. Still, the end of my death scene remains blank because who knows when I'll find the interest to write "Her eyes glaze over and her head slowly falls to the side. [Hero] knows she has gone...."

It's always better to try to find a new way to do things, and to try to find a way to do it that's specific to your characters and your particular situation.

I don't know how much screen time these two have together prior to this moment, but you might look earlier to see if your Mentor character has some characteristic behavior, and if not, perhaps you can give her some characteristic behavior, say a "night time" ritual -- she takes off her her rings, one by one and puts them in a box, one, two, three. And maybe we've seen her do this -- as a strictly incidental thing while some other conversations have been happening -- it's bed time, the rings come off, one, two, three -- and maybe used for emphasis -- because it's a nice way to end a scene -- clink, clink, clink.

And now, it's the final time, she's having the final conversation, and as she has it, just as we've seen her before -- no talk of death -- but she's taking her rings off, just as we've seen her do before, and she drops them in the container. One, two -- pause -- her hand rests on the top of the container -- three. The ring drops.

Obviously, this is just an example, but look for such a possibility, something that you can weave through their relationship, that seems almost incidental, but which relates to her character which you can then reintroduce at the end and endow with emotional weight.

NMS

[Plot Device]

nmstevens just reminded me: I wrote a scene a few years back where the commercial airplane was in a nose dive over the ocean and all on board knew they were gonna die. Now, it wasn't a "death bed" scene. But they just knew they were gonna die.

The husband looks at the wife, takes her hand, slides off her wedding band, then takes off his own, then tightly holds her hand while they are now both ringless. This was meant to be a LITERAL statement about "'til death do us part."

[xhouseboy]

To counteract nms' use of 'he', it's worth noting that they're both women =) And it's a period film. The arc of the main heroine is from a life of frivolity to one of self-sufficientness (think Gone With The Wind or what I think remember about Cold Mountain). And once the mentor passes, she must make decisions on her own, with conviction.

The "Only Angels Have Wings" scene is really interesting I think - great example - but not useful for me. I suppose I could have something where they are talking and then cut to the hero contemplating, alone. It would be good to juxtapose the death scene with a scene of the hero in some place where the mentor would usually be, but alone, to signify how they must go it alone from this point on.



Reminds me a little of the death bed scene in Lonesome Dove where Gus requests that Woodrow take his body back and bury it in the little grove that meant so much to him when he was younger.

But his reasons were twofold. As honourable as Woodrow was, Gus knew that he was sorely lacking in the personal touch, and when this task was finally accomplished Woodrow had become a more recogniseable member of the human race.

[dpaterso]

The husband looks at the wife, takes her hand, slides off her wedding band, then takes off his own, then tightly holds her hand while they are now both ringless. This was meant to be a LITERAL statement about "'til death do us part."
If I'd seen the film, I'm pretty sure I would have puzzled over this strange action till the day I died.

Just saying. :D

-Derek

[jonpiper]

If I'd seen the film, I'm pretty sure I would have puzzled over this strange action till the day I died.

Just saying. :D

-Derek

FADE IN

INT. CHURCH - DAY

Brad and Linda stand before FATHER O'ROURKE.

FATHER O'ROURKE
. . . til death do you part.

Brad places the ring on Linda's finger.

;)

[zeprosnepsid]

I agree nms, that making it part of the character is a fine idea. I just think I'm not too keen on writing death scenes at all.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Lots to think about for sure =)

[Plot Device]

If I'd seen the film, I'm pretty sure I would have puzzled over this strange action till the day I died.

Just saying. :D

-Derek

FADE IN

INT. CHURCH - DAY

Brad and Linda stand before FATHER O'ROURKE.

FATHER O'ROURKE
. . . til death do you part.

Brad places the ring on Linda's finger.

;)

I was about to say "or until the day you get married" but then jonpiper took the words rght outa my keybord. :D

(And I'm only assuming you're NOT married, DP.)

[scripter1]

I hate all those cliched, stupid little things that tell us someone has died.
That little roll to the head or flutter of eyes, ruin the emotional moment for me.

Except Shrek. Best series of death scenes ever.

Oh, sorry, this is a serious thread.

Some things to think about.
1) keep it simple.
2) WHO is the focus of the scene? The one dying or the one watching?
3) Are we dealing with illness or injury?
4) Is the death expected on all fronts or did it come out of the blue?


I liked the ring one.
Here are my suggestions.

Just have the dialog end. The character is talking and the words just stop. Or they kind of ... whisper out and the body just stills, and the eyes stay open, and they just kinda stop.

Have the person dying fight it. I think movies are afraid of death. Unless someone is slaughtered in an action flick we are afraid to watch people really die. Our hope is that people just slip away with a slight head nod.
In reality they sometimes go choking on their own blood from lung tumors, or convulsing, etc.

Interview a nurse or a doctor.

[zeprosnepsid]

Some things to think about.
1) keep it simple.
2) WHO is the focus of the scene? The one dying or the one watching?
3) Are we dealing with illness or injury?
4) Is the death expected on all fronts or did it come out of the blue?


scripter, I like the suggestion about not going out pretty. It'll actually make it a lot more difficult for the hero. Anyway, to answer your questions:

2) watching
3) illness
4) the main character was too self absorbed to see that the mentor was sick and dying but the audience will be in on it.

[dpaterso]

I was about to say "or until the day you get married" but then jonpiper took the words rght outa my keybord. :D

(And I'm only assuming you're NOT married, DP.)
Sorry, I just don't get jon's reply, or yours either. :Shrug:

A plane's going down. A man takes off his and his wife's wedding rings. What? Makes no sense. (OK, now I'm waiting for the usual reply... "I can't change it, I just can't, the entire story hinges on their taking their rings off..." :))

Pfft, I'm more married than anyone I know.

-Derek

[Bmwhtly]

Well I guess a little more info on the death in question is needed. It's a sort of Campbellian death-of-mentor so that the hero now has to go it alone. Therefore it's almost dramatically necessary that the mentor leave some parting words of importance (in a situation such as this, whatever they say will be of great importance to the hero).

To counteract nms' use of 'he', it's worth noting that they're both women =) And it's a period film. The arc of the main heroine is from a life of frivolity to one of self-sufficientness (think Gone With The Wind or what I think remember about Cold Mountain). And once the mentor passes, she must make decisions on her own, with conviction.Given this information, I'd be tempted not to try and re-invent the wheel. Rather, let the emotional intensity between the characters carry the scene.

In fact, I wouldn't do anything flamboyant. I wouldn't have the head droop or the hand drop or anything. Have the dying impart her words of wisdom. Then the MC can respond in whatever way you see fit. The dyer doesn't move, she just stops. And let the dialogue and the performance do the work.

But what the hell do I know.

[nmstevens]

Given this information, I'd be tempted not to try and re-invent the wheel. Rather, let the emotional intensity between the characters carry the scene.

In fact, I wouldn't do anything flamboyant. I wouldn't have the head droop or the hand drop or anything. Have the dying impart her words of wisdom. Then the MC can respond in whatever way you see fit. The dyer doesn't move, she just stops. And let the dialogue and the performance do the work.

But what the hell do I know.

I have to respectfully disagree. I think that the emotion in (for lack of a better term) "crying" scenes, when you watch them, is as carefully crafted as the emotion in a scary scene or a funny scene.

One would never say -- let's just have the actors do what they do and the audience will simply laugh or simply be scared, or it will simply depend on the performance -- it's all carefully structured to produce the given emotion, even when, for instance, the scare or the laugh depends on the particularities of performance -- albeit it may seem to unfold quite naturally as you're watching it.

In the same way, effective "crying" scenes don't just happen because you stick actors in a "sad" situation. Like good funny scenes or scary scenes, you have to lay the groundwork for them, they have to be correctly structured, there has to be a "set up" and a "punch line" -- the revelatory moment -- as in the scare or the laugh -- producing the emotion.

It doesn't just sort of happen on its own. If you, the writer, don't create it, you can't rely on the actor to do the work for you.

NMS

[Bmwhtly]

One would never say -- let's just have the actors do what they do and the audience will simply laugh or simply be scared, or it will simply depend on the performance -- it's all carefully structured to produce the given emotion, even when, for instance, the scare or the laugh depends on the particularities of performance -- albeit it may seem to unfold quite naturally as you're watching it.
Mayhaps I expressed myself poorly. I didn't mean just give it to the actors and let them get on with it.
I meant that visually; rather than rely on wilting plants, jerking heads, shrouded figures or translucent souls floating upward; Do it with acting rather than vis-effects.

[Stijn Hommes]

It's always better to try to find a new way to do things, and to try to find a way to do it that's specific to your characters and your particular situation.

I don't know how much screen time these two have together prior to this moment, but you might look earlier to see if your Mentor character has some characteristic behavior, and if not, perhaps you can give her some characteristic behavior, say a "night time" ritual -- she takes off her her rings, one by one and puts them in a box, one, two, three. And maybe we've seen her do this -- as a strictly incidental thing while some other conversations have been happening -- it's bed time, the rings come off, one, two, three -- and maybe used for emphasis -- because it's a nice way to end a scene -- clink, clink, clink.

And now, it's the final time, she's having the final conversation, and as she has it, just as we've seen her before -- no talk of death -- but she's taking her rings off, just as we've seen her do before, and she drops them in the container. One, two -- pause -- her hand rests on the top of the container -- three. The ring drops.

Obviously, this is just an example, but look for such a possibility, something that you can weave through their relationship, that seems almost incidental, but which relates to her character which you can then reintroduce at the end and endow with emotional weight.

NMS I thought it was impossible to rejuvinate the death scene, but you've proven me wrong.

[Plot Device]

Sorry, I just don't get jon's reply, or yours either. :Shrug:

A plane's going down. A man takes off his and his wife's wedding rings. What? Makes no sense.

Once again ... I seriously can't tell when you're joking. I'm DP challenged here! :e2cry:

I'm gonna pretend you're serious and respond with:

An earlier conversation in the script between husband and wife about their marriage and the nature of marriage and the whole "til death do us part" took place. The idea of love being "forever" but marriage lasting only unitl death was explored. What happens AFTER we die? Then what? We're not married anymore? Their love is forever, but their marriage is not. They concluded that after death, they're friends, or even brother and sister, but not husband and wife anymore. So the rings on the airplane thing was a reference back to that earlier conversation.

(OK, now I'm waiting for the usual reply... "I can't change it, I just can't, the entire story hinges on their taking their rings off..." :))

:tongue



Pfft, I'm more married than anyone I know.

-Derek

Well congrats on that! :cool:

[nmstevens]

Mayhaps I expressed myself poorly. I didn't mean just give it to the actors and let them get on with it.
I meant that visually; rather than rely on wilting plants, jerking heads, shrouded figures or translucent souls floating upward; Do it with acting rather than vis-effects.


There is a classic line that comes to mind here and that is, "If it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage."

To suggest that a scene which, when you read it, isn't particularly sad -- but don't worry, because when the actors act it, it'll be sad because of what the actors bring to it, is really no different from reading a scene which, in the finished movie is intended to be scary or to be funny -- but isn't scary or funny when you read it -- but you say, "Oh, don't worry, when the time comes and the actor acts the scene, he'll make it scary or funny with his performance."

There are all sorts of things that actors can bring to a part, to a role, to a line of dialogue.

But then there are other things that are our job as writers. If a scene is intended to convey a particular emotion to the audience -- that's our job. We shouldn't be putting in an asterisk and down at the bottom writing: *note to actor -- make audience cry here.

If the scene is funny, the reader should be laughing. If it's scary -- they should be scared. And if it is moving, they should be crying -- just by reading it.

What an actor, and a director, and a production designer and a DP and an editor may bring to that script will only intensify that experience.

But if the emotion isn't there on the page, we can't expect any of those people to create it on the set or in the cutting room -- to do our job for us.

NMS

[zeprosnepsid]

I think there's something to what bmw's saying actually - and I don't think bmw means it entirely the way nms is taking it - but I've thought about just what you suggest as an option. Why jazz it up? Why not keep it simple? Audiences expect certain things in death scenes, it's almost like a genre convention. Staging the scene a certain way gives the audience an emotional touchstone. The head jerk or that kind of thing is as much a genre convention as the femme fatale walking into the detective's office in noir or the showdown in the street in a western. Audiences have certain expectations in these scenes and generally don't like being let down.

And as for nms' suggestion for it to be on the page, not in the performance, I don't think there's anything wrong with 'Hero looks at the mentor, and slowly there is a realization on her face - we know the mentor is gone' and 'Mentor's eyes glaze over, her head slowly falls to the side' (these are not very good examples, I'd never write 'we' in a script, but hopefully you get the point!). I think, while it relies on a bit of effective performance, that on the script level it's equally allowable.

But at the moment I'm leaning toward nms' down and dirty, coughing, bleeding death. Because there's a very violent scene at the beginning that the hero is very weak during, I think this scene near the end, where it's as horrible but she handles herself with more dignity, will represent her journey quite well.

I think I'll try to write something up tonight and be done with it for the moment! I'll look at it again when the draft is done.

[Plot Device]

Does she have to die on camera?

Can you maybe: have your conversation between the two characters at night. Then conversation ends. Go to bed. Next morning: walk in and find she passsed in her sleep.

Is it plot-critical that she die in front of her?