<name> said. or said <name>?

[RLSMiller]

Anyone know if there's a rule for this? I see people do it both ways, and I'm getting paranoid that I'm doing it wrong. Sometimes I say <name> said and other times said <name>, just depending on what sounds better. Should I just choose one and stick with it, or is there some rule that I'm unaware of?

[callalily61]

<name> said.

Can't remember what book I read it in, argh. Try these:

The First Five Pages, Lukeman
Self-Editing for Fiction Writers, Browne and King
Stein on Writing

All three of which I have the profoundest respect for.

[J. Weiland]

Choose one and stick with it. There is no rule.

Although, in my opinion "said he/said she" sounds a bit archaic.

[justpat]

I think either is fine. Not sure about mixing them up though, probably OK. I do know that in Stephen King's book On Writing, he mentions how new writers try to avoid the word said and use more elaborate words, like "he enunciated." The new writers usually say they are trying to avoid "said" because it gets old, but Stephen (or Stevie as I like to call him) says readers are so used to reading "said" that they don't even notice, and anything else yanks them out of the story.

[sunna]

I'd go with option one; said <name> would pull me right out of the story.

Though I've seen it done in YA, and it seems to fit better there. Sometimes.

[Southern_girl29]

I just use what I do for the newspaper. In a training video, we were told the style is now name said, so I've stuck with that. But, of course, the best thing is to pick one and stick with it.

[maddythemad]

There is no rule. I use whichever feels better for the sentence, but often that is "said <name.>" However, I would never say, "said he," because (in my opinion) that sounds kind of stupid.

[RLSMiller]

Thanks for the responses all, that helped clear some things up. I am writing YA, and occasionally when I write something like "Mum said" I can't help but feel "said Mum" would go better for some reason. It's probably just a weird little writing quirk of mine, but I had to make sure I wasn't breaking a sacred rule or something. :)

[JoNightshade]

There is no rule. I use whichever feels better for the sentence, but often that is "said <name.>" However, I would never say, "said he," because (in my opinion) that sounds kind of stupid.

Agreed. Whatever sounds best and flows best, use it. I know others have said to pick one and stick with it, but I disagree. Stephen King is right when he says the reader's brain pretty much ignores it, but if you are using the same construction over and over, it's going to start sticking out.

I have found that it actually depends on the name being used. For example, the name David. "Said David" becomes awkward because you have the two "d's" together, so most of the time "David said" is going to flow better. Just read it out loud.

[Soccer Mom]

<name> said. Anything else sounds archaic to me.

[rugcat]

I totally disagree with the majority of posters. <Name> said is the standard, true, and one shouldn't randomly mix it up with said <Name>, but as an occasional change, it works just fine.

A "rule" is never as important as what sounds right or looks right on the page--sometimes it's so obvious that one does it without thinking. Trust your ear and your eye and you'll be fine.

[NicoleMD]

I totally disagree with the majority of posters. <Name> said is the standard, true, and one shouldn't randomly mix it up with said <Name>, but as an occasional change, it works just fine.

A "rule" is never as important as what sounds right or looks right on the page--sometimes it's so obvious that one does it without thinking. Trust your ear and your eye and you'll be fine.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Nicole

[Mr. E]

As long as it flows, I don't sweat it.

[maestrowork]

Either way, just be consistent. Modern literature (especially set in modern times) tend to favor "he said" instead of "said he."

[TB4me2000]

I'll throw my lot in with the dissenters--I think each version has a place, and what really matters is how it contributes to the flow of the story. If you read it out loud, which sounds better? Sometimes it will be ___ said, sometimes it wil be said ___, and sometimes both will sound like crap and you'll have to figure out something else to write. I wouldn't worry about which one is "right," though.

[Stijn Hommes]

There isn't a set rule. If you're using what sounds best, you're already doing the best you can.

[JoNightshade]

I am actually kind of puzzled that people think there IS some sort of standard or rule.

There might be in journalism, but journalistic writing is much more rigid and rule-based than literature. It focuses on conveying information quickly and efficiently-- the focus of literature is more on conveying [whatever you want to say] in a manner that is pleasing in some aesthetic way.

[sarabi]

How about leaving out the said altogether and having just a series of quoted conversation?

[Dawnstorm]

Actually, I think this is one issue where consistency may hurt your writing. Both are acceptable, and which one you choose is often a matter of emphasis:

"X said" tends to put emphasis on "said" (or the corresponding verb). It makes the speaker inconspicuous. Personally, I'd use this if the name is just there as a reminder. That's why "said [pronoun]" often sounds strange, I think. A pronoun refers back to a name/noun given earlier, so there's rarely a reason to put it into a prominent position.

"said [name]" for example is often appropriate when introducing "surprising speakers".

"No, you're not!" said Mom.//I flinched, turning...

If Mom hasn't been in the scene before, "Mom said" sounds awkward, I think. And notice that even a pronoun would work in that place, if it was clear who the pronoun referred to:

"Him..."//"Who?"//"You know. Him!"//"Oh!"

[snip]

"No, you're not!" said he.//I froze, lowered my head, hoping to hide my blush.

Starting sentences with "Said [X]" doesn't sound right to me (except in rather archaic/poetic contexts), which makes consistency kind of hard for people who prefer the structure.

To summarize:

1. At the start of the sentence/before the quote: X said, "..."

2. To emphasize the speaker: "...," said X.

3. To emphasize the speaking: "...," X said.

4. With pronouns: "...," [pronoun] said. (Unless 2. applies, but it usually won't. If you wish to the emphasise the speaker, you're not usually using a pronoun.)

That's my take on it, in a nutshell. As always, writing is more complicated.

[underthecity]

I find it distracting when the author uses both "Brian said" and "said Brian" throughout the same book. Peter Straub did this in Ghost Story. If the author chooses just one and sticks with "Brian said," then I never notice it.

(I only use Ghost Story as and example because I recently read it, and the interchanging saids got distracting.)

allen

[Melanie Nilles]

If you can avoid the tag, all the better--eliminate the confusion.

[Jamesaritchie]

There is no rule, but modern convention is usually for "he said." It's a matter of taste, but I do think consistency is just as important here as anywhere else.

On a personal level, "said he" sounds horrible to my ear, at least for adult writing.

But pick up a book by your favorite writer. Pick up ten books by your ten favorite writers. How do they do it?

[Oddsocks]

I think it depends on the sentence and flow - whichever falls out naturally will probably be fine. If it's pronouns, he said is probably the only way to go unless you're trying for an archaic style (and it'll stand out), but said John/John said are probably both ok.

[maestrowork]

"said he" just doesn't flow well for me. It's almost unnatural to my ear, even in a historical. I don't know why. But I wouldn't mind if someone uses it.

[Anne Lyle]

I tend to use beats (bits of action) rather than tags (said, etc), but if I need to identify the speaker without interrupting the dialogue I use 'name said' more often than 'said name'. As others have said, it doesn't hurt to use 'said name' occasionally, especially if it fits the rhythm of the sentence better. 'Said pronoun', on the other hand, is decidedly archaic.

In my WiP, though, I have an additional problem. One of my characters is called Ned. 'Ned said' sounds bad enough, but 'said Ned' is just silly! A lot of the time I have to resort to beats or unpretentious alternatives to said like 'replied' :)

[Raphee]

Just re reading 'To Kill a Mocking Bird' nowadays. said X is used frequently and is mixed up with X said.
I find nothing wrong with the use of either one of them.

[deathwizard]

I agree with those arguing for consistency. There are occasional reasons to mix it up, but those should be relatively rare.

[jvc]

I don't think there is a hard and fast rule with this, but I prefer to use, and read, <name> said. But that is just my own opinion. I would advise consistency throughout the novel though.

[Anthony Ravenscroft]

Putting the tag first gives it primacy, by definition. Putting the identifier first makes the tag "invisible" to the reader, & is therefore far better.

It's a rule. Live with it.

Sure, there's reason to mess around with primacy. For instance, when you're reading something with a definite narrator, whether first-person POV or a chunk of dialogue. But for the most part, "said he" is stuffy & pompous & paints the speaker that way.

[Novelist in Paradise]

In my more grumpy moments I sometimes wonder if half of the "rules" of craft aren't dreamed up to keep writing workshops happily humming.

I suspect that the general audience one is writing for doesn't give two hoots about she said/said she.

That said, said he, it does seem to me that "said he" has an old-fashioned storytelling ring to it, and sometimes that's the effect the writer wants.

[Novelist in Paradise]

In my more grumpy moments I sometimes wonder if half of the "rules" of craft aren't dreamed up to keep writing workshops happily humming.

I suspect that the general audience one is writing for doesn't give two hoots about she said/said she.

That said, said he, it does seem to me that "said he" has an old-fashioned storytelling ring to it, and sometimes that's the effect the writer wants.


Well, I'll be damned.

There's a couple hours before church, and to prepare myself for hearing of God's grace, I am reading of man's depravity. To wit, George Pelecanos' THE NIGHT GARDENER, which I just started this morning, and I got 10 pages into this hard crime story before I realized he was using the "said he" construct, exclusively. Flipped through the pages. It's constant. I didn't even notice and wouldn't have noticed if it hadn't been for this topic on AW.

[rugcat]

It's a rule. Live with it.Not a big fan of that approach.

Yes, using the tag second is usually better and it tends to render it more invisible. And using "said he" can be jarring. But the judicious use of the reverse tag to help dialogue flow can be effective, especially in long stretches of dialogue. And when there are more than two characters in the conversation, you must use at least some tags to keep it straight who is speaking.

Something like this, I think, works fine:

Harrison pointed at the table. "Take a look," he said.

I looked, but didn't see what he was talking about. There was nothing there.

"Good God,” said Wilson. “How dumb can you be?"

[seun]

I'm re-reading the Harry Potter books; Rowling uses '...said Ron' a lot but then most of her characters say everything calmly, happily or in a few cases, incredulously.

I go for '...he said' but then that's just my taste.

[Shady Lane]

name said. Ocassionally the other, though.

I had to look hard in my WIP for this one. I don't use a lot of dialouge tags.

[Novelust]

Name said, said name - both seem fairly invisible to me. Opinions vary, and that's cool.

But for the love of God, please, please, please don't shave necessary tags in the name of keeping things neat and clean. There's nothing more infuriating than finding your way halfway down the page and not knowing who the heck is talking. (Especially in a three-person-plus talking scene. Why would you do that to me, your reader? I want to love your book, honestly!)

[FennelGiraffe]

The default sentence structure in English is subject-verb-object. John said, "Yada yada yada." John = subject; said = verb; "Yada yada yada" = object.

On the other hand, 'default' doesn't mean you can't twist things around when necessary. It's all about what works best in that particular instance. 'Said <pronoun>' does sound very odd, except in a certain type of arch humor. But I have a mild preference for 'said <name>' when the dialog precedes the tag. "Yada yada yada," said John. Object-verb-subject.

On the gripping hand, I have a much greater preference for not using tags at all. "Yada yada." John glanced at his watch. "Yada yada yada yada yada."

[BarbJ]

I use both, but limit the "said Who's-it". It has a slightly flippant tone, to me at least, which occasionally fits in the work.

[herdon]

There are few hard rules in writing. Even if the majority of your manuscript is name said there are times when using the reverse would be better. For example:

"I'll take two, please," said the man in the purple pants.

Sounds better than

"I'll take two, please," the man in the purple pants said.

[shakeysix]

Remember those old Tom Swift jokes? "That lion bites," Tom said offhandedly. Thankfully I can't remember any more-s6