Emma Bull on the Western as A Genre

[Medievalist]

Emma Bull is the author of Territory, a Western from Tor due in July. She's an award-winning fantasy and SF author. Here's what she has to say about the Western as a genre (http://coffeeem.livejournal.com/43352.html).

[Festus]

Thanks Med. Good article with telling points. Appreciate you sharing that with us. :-)

[Bmwhtly]

She's got a point.
The future of the western genre depends on how you define the Western Genre. It seems there's hope for us yet.

[Cav Guy]

She says what I've been saying about the Western for some time. It's a question of place and character, not so much following the Bonanza mold. Or L'Amour. The problem is that too many of the "established" types just don't see it that way. It also gives those who want to look down their noses at the Western some traction to point to older shows and books and say (usually with snooty accents) "The Western is dead." It may not come back in its old Virginian form, but it sure isn't dead.

[Jamesaritchie]

And how many Deadwood novels are out there on the shelves? When people talk about the western being dead, they mean the classic, traditional western, and I see no evidence at all that they're wrong. It's fine to start calling all the other "novels of the west" westerns, but it changes nothing except the nomenclature.

[Medievalist]

I have to confess that the westerns I've read -- lots of Zane Gray, some Louis L'Amour, Shane, probably others I've forgotten -- remind me an awful lot of Arthurian literature.

[Bmwhtly]

I have to confess that the westerns I've read -- lots of Zane Gray, some Louis L'Amour, Shane, probably others I've forgotten -- remind me an awful lot of Arthurian literature.Well, if you feel like browsing through some fresh, exciting Western fiction; you know where to look, don't you?
No?
The blue link.

[MacAllister]

I'll be more inclined to believe the western genre is dead when L'Amour, Grey, and those guys are all long out of print and no one remembers their names, I think.

There's something archetypal there, that's not going to stay dormant long, ever. Medievalist's observation is a good one -- the traditional Western is very much a hero's quest kind of a tale, and that just changes faces really. The cowboy hat might be slightly out of fashion, just now, is all -- but if someone comes along and puts the right spin on it again? Oh baby, you just know those books will sell, and the editors who turned 'em down will by crying in their beers.

[Cav Guy]

I have to confess that the westerns I've read -- lots of Zane Gray, some Louis L'Amour, Shane, probably others I've forgotten -- remind me an awful lot of Arthurian literature.
That's because, to a degree, they are. The Western is really the American version of that sort of literature (not necessarily in quality, but in meaning and content). The Arthurian stuff was intended to capture chivalry as it was imagined to be, not necessarily as it really was. The Western is very similar in that sense (at least the traditional Western).

It's been interesting to watch it evolve and change over the years, but I have to say that I find the whole "novel of the West" thing to be a touch on the snobbish side. Literature can certainly be genre (and if it's not, then what is Tolkein and the rest?). The Western got trashed up quite a bit in the 1980s (adult Westerns, anyone?) but that has happened to other genres as well and they rebounded.

I agree with Mac. They'll be back, but it will take a combination of a good writer and a publisher willing to take a chance on that author. I suspect that the latter part will be somewhat harder to find than the former, but that has more to do with the mantra of "The Western is dead" than anything else.

[JeanneTGC]

Of course, there's also the fact that if you look at something that crosses genres, the Western is doing well.

I'm talking about in romance. There are plenty of Western-themed romances, as well as historicals and such, that deal with Westerns, if you will. Sure, the romance part is normally dominant, but they're still using a lot of the Western themes.

Romance readers love cowboys. Get the right book (mine, please God, mine) that will get them AND get the folks who read "real" Westerns, or even novels set in the Old West, and you have the potential to bring it all back again, just like Mac said.

Right book at the right time will do it. It's just seeing who's got the right book.

[Vanatru]

Romance readers love cowboys. Get the right book (mine, please God, mine) that will get them AND get the folks who read "real" Westerns, or even novels set in the Old West, and you have the potential to bring it all back again, just like Mac said.

Nothing like being roped in by a cowboy. Herd 'em up, move 'em on. Rawhide! :P

Horror westerns seem to have done well. Or is that horrors stories set in the west? Dusk to Dawn, Highway 666, Deadwood, Deadlands, and what's that one about vampires in the desert. It was on that fake scary movie show. Great stuff.

[JeanneTGC]

Nothing like being roped in by a cowboy. Herd 'em up, move 'em on. Rawhide! :P

Horror westerns seem to have done well. Or is that horrors stories set in the west? Dusk to Dawn, Highway 666, Deadwood, Deadlands, and what's that one about vampires in the desert. It was on that fake scary movie show. Great stuff.
Right. I'm just saying that I think the Western -- its setting, themes, even stereotypes -- are still being used, but their used either in cross-genre, or they're reset into another genre (cop shows, science fiction) where they "look" or "sound" different in a way.

Broken Trail was successful, as a recent example on TV. The Western is still there, lurking, waiting for its next moment. (So help me and so I believe.)

[Bonner]

Oh say it ain't so. I read the linked article and when I heard Tombstone, Doc Holliday used in the same sentence and magic and pixie dust, I physically shivered.
Westerns are westerns, makes no difference if you term them 'novels of the west' or not. A cross genre western is no more a western than is a cross-dressing cowboy.
I agree there isn't much market for the run of the mill western. In the same breath I'll say I don't know what the run of the mill western is. I do know that Westerns like Lonesome Dove and Elmore Leonard's work are still exception literary works. Its like saying 'Roy Rogers' was like 'Gunsmoke' in early TV. Deadwood and Open Range are still westerns and not just because they are set in pre 1900 and west of the Mississippi.

[seven41]

"A cross genre western is no more a western than is a cross-dressing cowboy.'

Louis L'amour had a cross-dressing bad guy in one of his Chick Bowdrie stories. The story was definitely western. Why not a cross-genre western? How about a reporter with a time machine going back to the gunfight at the OK corral to give a first hand report of events leading to the fight, the fight itself, and the aftermath? I think it would make interesting reading, especially if the reporter got stuck in the time period for longer than he intended.

[Komnena]

L'Amour himself wrote a science fiction novel based on Native American mythology.

[seven41]

"L'Amour himself wrote a science fiction novel based on Native American mythology."

You are referring to Haunted Mesa I presume? Not a bad story either and while not in the stereotype image of the western shoot-em up, it did take place in southwestern Colorado and southeastern Utah.