Does an author's gender matter to you as a reader?

[swvaughn]

Hey, put down those torches and pitchforks. I have a good reason for asking this question.

See, I was reading this thread over in the YA forum, about YA books in general (coincidentally, the thread is "YA Books"). The OP expressed a desire to find some good dark YA to read, because bookstores seem to favor bubble-gummy pink-covered YA and it's tough to find the darker stuff. In this thread, several expressed a reluctance to read YA written by females...

Both of these observations make me eternally sad.

Is it true?

Does dark YA get shuffled off to dusty corners of the bookstore in favor of lipstick and boy-giggling and cheerleader-turned-sports-hero-rules-high-school Sweet Valley stuff? (Not that I have anything against Sweet Valley... it's just not the kind of thing I write...)

Do YA readers, particularly older teens and adults, avoid female writers unless they're absolutely sure, via friend recommendation or other impossible-to-market factors, they're going to enjoy her stuff?

What about other genres? Does it bother you to read romances by men, or thrillers by women -- consciously or subconsciously? If you've never thought about it, have a quick look at the books on your shelves. Are your genres dominated by what's considered the normal-gendered writer?

(Gee, SW, why do you care? Well, see, I wrote this book, and I got an agent, and she's trying to sell it right now... and it turns out it's YA and I never knew. And it's dark. Really, really dark. So now I'm wondering, what with my real name going on this one, will I be relegated to the shelf of ugh-female-YA-writer-there's-probably-bubble-gum-DON'T-READ-THAT! -- do I really have that many more hurdles to leap with this book?)

I'm. Not. Panicking.

Nope.

Whatcha think?

[MacAllister]

R.L. Stine.
Christopher Pike.
V.C. Andrews.
...

[Mom'sWrite]

The beauty of being a writer is that you can be in character too. When you write dark YA, choose a pseudonym that reflects that or adapt your name to something darker. Simple, no?

[Toothpaste]

First of all, to assuage your fears, may I refer you to the YA very dark novel, Wicked Lovely by Melissa Marr. It is a rather new release and is currently on the bestseller lists, so screw those people who say women who write dark YA's can't be successful.

Second, I think it shouldn't matter, but it can. This is why JK Rowling was JK Rowling and not Joanne, because her protagonist is male and her publishers worried that boys wouldn't want to read a book about a boy if they knew it was written by a woman.

I don't think the quality varies, or even really that a woman can write a woman better, and a man can write a man better. Many women write very dark, very gritty mysteries involving male protagonists, and look at something like Memoirs of a Geisha which was not only written by a man, but a white man at that.

Some people have prejudices, both readers and publishers. From what I understand it can be quite difficult to break into the Romance genre if you are a guy. But I think things are better than they ever have been for gender equality in that way. Nothing is ever perfect, but I really would not worry too much about it (oh and who is to say that some of those bubble gum books aren't secretly written by men? I mean things like "Gossip Girl" are basically written by a committee . . . who knows . . .?)

[JoNightshade]

As I have mentioned in another thread, I gravitate towards male writers. For fun, I read primarily sci fi. And... yeah, I usually don't like female-written sci fi, even though I myself am female. My approval of female writing in other genres is almost as low.

Except that I just got WAY addicted to Lois McMaster Bujold so... there goes my record. I'm gonna have to rethink this all-male writer thing... :)

[swvaughn]

R.L. Stine.
Christopher Pike.
V.C. Andrews.
...

Oooh, V.C. Andrews makes me happy. :D I didn't know she (and her various carry-on ghostwriters) was considered YA. *beams* That's encouraging! I've not read Christopher Pike... now I shall do that.

The beauty of being a writer is that you can be in character too. When you write dark YA, choose a pseudonym that reflects that or adapt your name to something darker. Simple, no?

Yes! That's exactly why I use S. W. Vaughn for my thrillers (they're even darker than my YA UF stuff). S. W. is a character. :)

But... *sniffle* my agent suggested it would be better to proudly proclaim my female status for this, since my protag is a 19-year-old female. I trust her judgment. It's just that this bubble-gum thing threw me a little...

First of all, to assuage your fears, may I refer you to the YA very dark novel, Wicked Lovely by Melissa Marr. It is a rather new release and is currently on the bestseller lists, so screw those people who say women who write dark YA's can't be successful.

Second, I think it shouldn't matter, but it can. This is why JK Rowling was JK Rowling and not Joanne, because her protagonist is male and her publishers worried that boys wouldn't want to read a book about a boy if they knew it was written by a woman.

I don't think the quality varies, or even really that a woman can write a woman better, and a man can write a man better. Many women write very dark, very gritty mysteries involving male protagonists, and look at something like Memoirs of a Geisha which was not only written by a man, but a white man at that.

Some people have prejudices, both readers and publishers. From what I understand it can be quite difficult to break into the Romance genre if you are a guy. But I think things are better than they ever have been for gender equality in that way. Nothing is ever perfect, but I really would not worry too much about it (oh and who is to say that some of those bubble gum books aren't secretly written by men? I mean things like "Gossip Girl" are basically written by a committee . . . who knows . . .?)

I agree with this. I've "met" Melissa Marr (corresponded with her a few times via e-mail) and I'm getting my hands on Wicked Lovely in the next few weeks ... this book is definitely a good sign for dark YA. :D

Thanks, guys. I have a severe case of frayed nerves these days... your thoughts are much appreciated.

[swvaughn]

As I have mentioned in another thread, I gravitate towards male writers. For fun, I read primarily sci fi. And... yeah, I usually don't like female-written sci fi, even though I myself am female. My approval of female writing in other genres is almost as low.

Except that I just got WAY addicted to Lois McMaster Bujold so... there goes my record. I'm gonna have to rethink this all-male writer thing... :)

*sniffle*

But, Jo... don't you love me? :D

Rethink! Yes, that's a good idea. Chicks can write gritty. I promise...

[JoNightshade]

Oh, you're a girl?

Sorry, I project maleness on everything. When I was a kid, every single one of my stuffed animals was male. (In my mind.) All dogs are male. So are 99% of cats. And no, I don't know how they produce offspring. :)

[swvaughn]

Oh, you're a girl?

Sorry, I project maleness on everything. When I was a kid, every single one of my stuffed animals was male. (In my mind.) All dogs are male. So are 99% of cats. And no, I don't know how they produce offspring. :)

Sadly, yes. :D

It's okay; most people assume I'm a guy because of the stuff I write and the way I react to things. Works quite well for the thrillers. I've actually had people call my house, asking to speak to Mr. Vaughn. That's not even my real last name...

I find it amusing. In my own quiet way, I am offering proof that people are so wonderfully diverse, the guy/girl dichotomy is entirely physical (and all applied permutations therein, including differences in viewpoints and reactions due to hormones and body structure).

But that's another debate that does not belong in Writing Novels, so I'll shut up. :D

[Shady Lane]

Jo, I thought you were a guy for awhile.

Do YA readers, particularly older teens and adults, avoid female writers unless they're absolutely sure, via friend recommendation or other impossible-to-market factors, they're going to enjoy her stuff?

That's me to a T. I know it's awful--and I have a YA book coming out, with my girly name all over the cover. I guess I'm just trusting people not to judge me like I judge them.

I don't read books with female protagonists, and guys write the best guys. Comes down to that.

[anodyne]

I hate to wax theoretical on this subject, but it's difficult to resist.

:places a salt shaker on the table before proceeding:

I make no bones about having studied literature and literary theory as my undergraduate major. I'm a little embarrassed about it, but I'll live. I see this argument on par with the arguments surrounding the "authentic" in racialized literature.

There is a "feminine" voice in writing that, through out the centuries men have tried to emulate. I cite the tawdry, supposedly autobiographic, love-letters of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries in Europe. The romances (used in the sense of novels) written by women, or supposedly written by women were best sellers. Many men would assume this overly giddy (and more trivial than the women who actually wrote similar pieces) tone in an attempt to pretend that their works were authentically highborn women who only wanted to have fun.

On the opposite side of the coin, you have authors who historically assumed male names in order to be published and not associated with these tawdry romances which educated men firmly believed were the extent of woman's ability to write. (That brings us up to the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries).

Enter a few theoretical, social and gender shifts in the intervening years and we come back to the beginning. Many very intelligent people will create a schism between the works of men and women. Women over-emotionalize and reflect in their novels. Men have action, hard science and factual endeavors. It's a little alarming, at least in my mind, when viewed in those terms.

Personally, I subscribe to the "Death of the Author" and everything that goes with it. The personal ambitions, station and gender of the author doesn't matter. What matters is the readers interaction with the text. What matters is how the reader feels about the author. I'm willing to wager that in a group of people introduced to works by a female author with a male pseudonym and given the sort of annoying historical and biographical run down Socratic college professors in the humanities favor, the experiential reality would be much different than that of another group given the same rundown of the author as a female.

It is not the writing that differs, aside from obvious matters of topic and perspective. It's the experience of the reader. At least, that's my take on things.

That said, not knowing or caring if the author is male or female, I have found that after the fact I have enjoyed more YA fiction by women than men. I'm not very interested in fluffybunny YA, as a librarian, former selector and co-founder of an electronic reader's advisory list for girl positive YA fiction. There are a lot of female writers, at least in Fantasy/Sci Fi who have very gritty and substantial novels under their belts.

Just my $.02

[swvaughn]

That's me to a T. I know it's awful--and I have a YA book coming out, with my girly name all over the cover. I guess I'm just trusting people not to judge me like I judge them.

I don't read books with female protagonists, and guys write the best guys. Comes down to that.

:e2cry:

I write better guys than some guys. *cough* Ouch. That really hurt my sense of humility. I'm new to this confidence thing... I've only got a smidge hanging around.

Sigh. Shady, I think a lot of people think like you. It's one of those cultural things. I think I am going to have to find a way over this hurdle.

From now on, everyone call me George, okay? :D

[swvaughn]

Just my $.02

Which, when adjusted for inflation to my pathetic clawing-at-scraps currency, equates to ten g's at least...

Thank you. :D Your thoughts have given me a different framework to view this issue -- much appreciated!

[MacAllister]

VC Andrews perhaps isn't shelved under YA -- but the vast majority of her audience consists of teenage girls in the 12-16 range, from my own anecdotal working-in-a-bookstore all through grad school experience. :)

[Shady Lane]

:e2cry:

I write better guys than some guys. *cough* Ouch. That really hurt my sense of humility. I'm new to this confidence thing... I've only got a smidge hanging around.

Sigh. Shady, I think a lot of people think like you. It's one of those cultural things. I think I am going to have to find a way over this hurdle.

From now on, everyone call me George, okay? :D

I'm sure you write good guys! I do, too. But you've got to admit that a lot of girls just stick penises on their girls.

[swvaughn]

VC Andrews perhaps isn't shelved under YA -- but the vast majority of her audience consists of teenage girls in the 12-16 range, from my own anecdotal working-in-a-bookstore all through grad school experience. :)

Wow! That really gives me hope... some of Andrews' stuff is extraordinarily disturbing, and if the 12-16 range digs it, maybe I have a shot!

[swvaughn]

I'm sure you write good guys! I do, too. But you've got to admit that a lot of girls just stick penises on their girls.

True, dat. :D

[Medievalist]

I'm going to stick my oar in too.

First of all, there's a difference between gender and sex.

Sex is between our legs, and gender is in our minds and hearts.

Secondly, dark YA -- see Holly Black's Tithe and Valiant; Patricia McKilllip's Beasts of Eld and Doeskin. Both are women.

Thirdly: write how you want. Write true characters using true language. Let your agent and publisher worry about marketing.

[Jamesaritchie]

The writer's gender doesn't matter to me, but the gender of the protagonist very often does.

[anodyne]

And girls write the best girls? I don't know, in that lies dangerous waters.

I don't know about the rest of the girls in this thread, but growing up the protagonists I identified with the most were always male. Because the majority of female protagonists were wishy-washy and boy crazed, or young and "overly optimistic" -- completely not me, in other words.

I'm not a boy, (No! Really?) and so maybe my experiential reality is a little wonky, but I can think of a lot of female authors who have very believable male protagonists. Sarah Douglass in Beyond the Hanging Wall for instance. I personally felt Harry and Ron were pretty believable, though I guess some would claim a little effeminate.

My point is, writing a believable character who is not your gender is achievable. Many authors have done it, (though some without notable success -- yes Jacqueline Carey, I'm looking at you).

Getting into this polarized mentality isn't healthy for us as professionals or members of society. And with that, back to my BIC time and away from all of you evil evil distractions.

[JoNightshade]

From now on, everyone call me George, okay? :D

I heart George Eliot!!!

Here's what I'm thinking: Maleness and femaleness in today's market has nothing to do with the actual sex of the living author. People make generalizations about the sexes which tend to be GENERALLY true... ie, men are more analytical, women are more emotional. Sure, there's variation, but this stereotype is more true than not. So, let's say we have a woman who writes in a more analytical way. She is justified in thinking, "My work will appeal to others who like analytical writing. More men are analytical than women. I'll use a male pseudonym." Ergo, the male pseudonym is not an attempt to masquerade as a man because men are "better writers," but just one of many ways to indicate to the reader whether or not they will like this book. A reader, considering what to read, may think "I like something that is more analytical. Men are often more analytical. The chances of me liking a given book are better if I read something by a man." - Or in this case, labeled as "male." So in all, it can be a good marketing ploy to choose a pseudonym that aligns with common perceptions about maleness and femaleness.

Okay please don't take the above as a statement of fact, or in any way true in most cases. I'm just supposing here. :)

[CheshireCat]

Thing is, you have absolutely no control over who your audience is -- or becomes. You can use all the pen names you want, gender-based or just because you want the privacy or dislike your real name, or want to be shelved beside King or Patterson or Clancy or Roberts or whoever else on the shelves.

You can pretend you aren't your true gender, or race, or religion, or ethnic background, or anything else you or someone handling your work perceives to be a "potential problem."

If you're a male writing romance, and readers know it, some will be slow to try your work -- period.

If you're a female writing thrillers or hard-edged mysteries, and readers know it, some will be slow to try your work -- period.

Some readers will never be able to push past their preconceived ideas of what your work will be because you are _________ (fill in the blank).

Chalk it up to their loss and move on.

Eventually, if you last long enough in the business, you'll probably discover new readers coming on board, belatedly "discovering" your work, and they'll tell you that it's the first time they've read _____________ by a ________________. Thank them very much. And move on.

My point being that who your audience is, like so much in your career, is out of your hands. Nothing wrong with having a target audience in mind, of course, but don't tie yourself into knots trying to be all things to all readers.

You can't. You won't.

Write to your strengths, and your audience will find you. (That's assuming you have a good agent and publisher, and the stars are in their proper alignment, and your on-sale date isn't Friday the 13th ... Where was I? Oh, yeah.) Tell your story well enough, and most readers aren't going to be thinking about how amazing it is that a man wrote a lyrical love scene, or that a woman wrote a kick-ass action scene, or that a 70-year-old wrote a lively YA novel.

They'll think they're having a great time reading a fun story. Which is pretty much the point.

[Toothpaste]

I have to really disagree with that "guys write the best guys". It's just simply not true. And offensive, to both readers and writers. Does that mean since I am in my twenties I can't write a convincing character in their 50's? Does that mean since I live on earth, a story about a far distant planet is impossible for me to write? My protagonist is 10 and a half. Obviously I can't write her as well as an actual 10 and a half year old?

Heck there are even female actors out there who have played men in movies. I cannot remember the woman's name, or the movie's title, but there is this film about the Vietnam war and one of the male characters is played by a woman. She isn't a woman pretending to be a man (a la Hilary Swank, who did it pretty darn well though getting into that role), but rather simply a male character. And only because I recongnised the actress did I know she was a woman. If a woman can empathise and embody a man as an actor, surely an author can as well. (as can a male author write convincing female characters)

I would suggest maybe that since you don't read many female authors, you shouldn't make sweeping statements. Possibly the one or two you read, weren't good with male characters, but plenty others are. And I'm sorry but Harry Potter doesn't come across to me as some teenage girl with an appendage. He seems pretty high school boy to me (as do Ron, Neville etc etc)

[javili]

I don't like many books by female writers. The things they are concerned with don't interest me.
I don't decide that in advance. I like Ursula LeGuin. I liked Briget Jones' Diary. I like Isabel Allende and Laura Esquivel. A little. But there are diffences in taste between men and women and I don't really care much about romance and betrayal and sad love stories. Women don't seem to like stories about football and cars and guns and political corruption (unless the directly involve women).

This seems very obvious. I don't see it as a problem.

And no..I might write a story for children, but I wouldn't try to write what the world is like from the point of a seventy year old man (or woman). I don't know enough.

[reenkam]

I never think about gender when buying a book. Sex or gender, I guess I should say. Not even for the main characters. I guess I'm just a really...I don't even know what word I could use.

I do know that there are a lot of female authors who use intials or even nicknames and seem like they're males. I guess it does matter, since a lot of people here seem to care, but I never thought about it before.

And in my experience, female writers seem to be a little better at the genres I read. Generally.

[BlueTexas]

Women don't seem to like stories about football and cars and guns and political corruption (unless the directly involve women).



Wow, good thing Patricia Cornwell and Sue Grafton and Kathy Reichs don't have a female audience.

[Mel]

With all that's been said, I'll go with simplicity. Believe in your characters, believe in your story, believe in your writing. Let the rest take care of itself.

[Toothpaste]

javili: "And no..I might write a story for children, but I wouldn't try to write what the world is like from the point of a seventy year old man (or woman). I don't know enough."

Well heck, with your theory that you can't write about what you haven't experienced, it does make it easier to decide what to write about I guess. Pity about that whole historical fiction genre, suddenly vanished in that puff of logic (thank you Douglas Adams for that lovely phrase, sigh, you are just so my patron saint!).

Look, the female authors you listed here are in the women's book genre. What about Martina Cole who writes ridiculously gritty thrillers? Alex Barclay? Hell PD James and Agatha Christie? If we are talking genre that's one thing, but women write a lot of other genres too. Mary Shelley anyone? Anyone?

[thepainpasses]

While initials and aliases could help if you're worried, when you look in the YA section, it's usually easy to distinguish between the dark and the bubblegum. Personally, I look at the title and cover before I ever look at the author's name. So I think they'd be able to figure out what it was before going "girl = bubblegum".

[CheshireCat]

Look, the female authors you listed here are in the women's book genre. What about Martina Cole who writes ridiculously gritty thrillers? Alex Barclay? Hell PD James and Agatha Christie? If we are talking genre that's one thing, but women write a lot of other genres too. Mary Shelley anyone? Anyone?

Exactly. Whenever anyone says they "don't like" female writers, or "don't like" male writers, I always ask why. And, nine times out of ten, what they apparently mean is that they don't like a particular genre, or sub-genre. So, yeah, it's obvious that lots of men don't like "women's fiction" because it doesn't deal with subjects and plotlines that interest them. Same with, say, what used to be called techno-thrillers (Clancy) being less popular with female readers because the subjects and plotlines didn't interest them.

I don't believe it's true that male writers create better or more accurate male characters. I don't believe that female writers create better or more accurate female characters.

What I do believe is that any writer who limits his or her reading according to preconceived ideas -- be they about gender, subject matter, genre, or anything else -- is missing a huge opportunity to grow and learn as a writer.

If we could visit the homes of the most successful authors of all time, I'd bet almost anything you'd care to name that on their shelves you wouldn't find just the sort of books they write themselves so successfully.

You'd find all kinds of books.

[LizzieGirl]

OK SW...

Here's my take on this. I never read much as a child. I didn't like reading. I still don't unless the book is REALLY good. I do read but I know it's as much as it really should be. Not that that really matters but maybe it does. I am young...21 and I enjoy young adult stuff. That could be because I write for children but it could also just be me.

When I pick up a new book, I look at the cover and then flip to the back or where ever the synopsis of the book is. I don't look at the author's name unless I am looking for something by a certain author. If I think I will like the book I don't really care who wrote it.

Here's an example I bought a book the other day. It wasn't until hours later when I was talking to a friend who works in the book store I bought it from that I noticed the author's name.

I am not going to claim that I am part of the norm. I never have done that and I have no desire to do it now. I'm merely offering my opinion as a young adult, young adult reader and young adult writer.

[Thatshim]

The 10 Greatest Books of All Time (Time magazine):


Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
Madame Bovary by Gustave Flaubert
War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy
Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
Hamlet by William Shakespeare
The Great Gatsby F. Scott Fitzgerald
In Search of Lost Time by Marcel Proust
The Stories of Anton Chekhov by Anton Chekhov
Middlemarch by George EliotMale-Female: 10-0.

Don't shoot the messenger.
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Toothpaste]

I don't even understand the point of posting that list. Is Time the definitive answer to taste in fiction? There is probably nothing more subjective than reading. Heck Hamlet? Try King Lear people.

Richest author ever: JK Rowling. But that has nothing to do with mass appeal or anything of course. And it isn't literary fiction, so it doesn't count as real books. And especially doesn't count as anything to do with taste because it's kids who love the book, and we all know kids will read anything . . . oh wait . . .

[NicoleMD]

The 10 Greatest Books of All Time (Time magazine):

Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
Madame Bovary by Gustave Flaubert
War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy
Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
Hamlet by William Shakespeare
The Great Gatsby F. Scott Fitzgerald
In Search of Lost Time by Marcel Proust
The Stories of Anton Chekhov by Anton Chekhov
Middlemarch by George EliotMale-Female: 10-0.

Don't shoot the messenger.
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

Make that 9-1.

George is a woman.

Nicole

[Thatshim]

I apologize. Thank you.
Still there is no point in ultimate male/ female comparison.
Each of us possesses unique qualities that make our union beautiful.

[CheshireCat]

I apologize. Thank you.
Still there is no point in ultimate male/ female comparison.
Each of us possesses unique qualities that make our union beautiful.

Why do I feel condescended to?

Maybe I'm just cranky today, but nobody was talking about the male/female "union" as far as I could see.

We were talking about preferences and perceived differences in how some men and some women write some books and characters.

[rugcat]

If you posted a list of the "greatest classics" in any field--music, painting, etc., the list would be predominantly male. This has little to do with gender. It reflects more the lack of opportunities in the arts afforded women until recently, as well as the societal gender prejudices that went into the establishment of a canon of "great works."

[CheshireCat]

If you posted a list of the "greatest classics" in any field--music, painting, etc., the list would be predominantly male. This has little to do with gender. It reflects more the lack of opportunities in the arts afforded women until recently, as well as the societal gender prejudices that went into the establishment of a canon of "great works."


What the min-pin avatar said. :)

[LizzieGirl]

Richest author ever: JK Rowling. But that has nothing to do with mass appeal or anything of course. And it isn't literary fiction, so it doesn't count as real books. And especially doesn't count as anything to do with taste because it's kids who love the book, and we all know kids will read anything . . . oh wait . . .

I don't agree. I have seen through my work with kids, that they have very strong likes and dislikes of books like anyone. Yes there are some kids that will read any book they can get their hands on but I don't think you should make a generalization like that. But again this is just me and my opinion.

[Jamesaritchie]

If you posted a list of the "greatest classics" in any field--music, painting, etc., the list would be predominantly male. This has little to do with gender. It reflects more the lack of opportunities in the arts afforded women until recently, as well as the societal gender prejudices that went into the establishment of a canon of "great works."

Maybe, but that's an argument by assertion, as well. Such a list may be prejudiced based, or it may be that men have done whatever it is better than women. Both views are merely assertion.

It does seem women have done pretty well in the field of writing, and they've certainly had plenty of opportunities from the 19th century on.

[IrishScribbler]

I rarely look at an author's name when book-hunting unless I'm seeking out a particular author/book. Often, the gender of the author doesn't register with me until I'm discussing the book with others and use the author's name. It's not really that important to me.

Although I will say women's fiction often resonates with me, but that is more the subject matter and less the author. In fact, I've read (and loved) women's fiction written by men (which is possible, despite what some people think).

An example of this is Memoirs of a Geisha by Arthur Golden. I read this years ago (prior to the movie) in an Eastern Civilization course in college. I really enjoyed Golden's writing style and the story itself, and throughout the book, which is written in first-person, I didn't think about the author. Later, when I was discussing the book with my professor, it clicked that the author was a man from Tennessee and not a geisha from Japan. During my reading, it never occurred to me to think about the author's gender.

And that hasn't changed.

[IrishScribbler]

It does seem women have done pretty well in the field of writing, and they've certainly had plenty of opportunities from the 19th century on.

Yes. However, it is not merely about opportunity. How many women of the 19th century used male pen names? How many women now use initials rather than a feminine name because they believe (rightfully or not) they will not sell well as a woman writer?

Charlotte Bronte as Currer Bell
Mary Ann Evans as George Eliot
Karen Blixen as Isak Dinesen
J. D. Robb
J. K. Rowling
K. A. Applegate

[Dave.C.Robinson]

What about Rob Thurman, when I first read her books I thought she was a man. Now I know she's a woman. My opinion of the books hasn't changed. The gender of the writer doesn't matter much to me.

[lkp]

Not in theory. And I just finished Gregory Maguire's Lost, and if I hadn't known it was written by a man, I woould have guessed a woman wrote it. But in practice, most, though not all, of my favourite authors seem to be women and I buy far more books by women than men.

[Toothpaste]

I don't agree. I have seen through my work with kids, that they have very strong likes and dislikes of books like anyone. Yes there are some kids that will read any book they can get their hands on but I don't think you should make a generalization like that. But again this is just me and my opinion.

I was being sarcastic. That's what the "oh wait" at the end was suggesting. Sorry if it wasn't clear! Tough to be sarcastic on the internet! Believe me I know how picky kids can be, and I would never presume to insult the exact audience I write for. In fact I think it is because of the great deal of respect I have for kids that is one of the reasons why I write for them!

I love JK Rowling and get really fed up when people don't seem to respect the fact that she is one of the biggest authors really ever. They make excuses, a genre writer, a kids book writer. . . doesn't count. And that offends me. I was being a bit snarkish I must confess in my sarcasm.

[Penguin Queen]

I read almost exclusively books written by women. I'm not exactly a seperatist, I do try male writers every now & then, and there a few whose work I hugely enjoy, and find them as good as any woman, as it were (Douglas Adams springs to mind, Philip Pullman, Amin Maalouf).

I dont think it's a matter of the quality of the writing, tho. For me, it comes down to the author's experience. Ive experienced myself as other all my life, for a variety of reasons, some but not all to do with the fact that I'm a woman in what is still largely a man's world, that I'm bi which makes me stick out both in the straight and the lesbian worlds... and I find that straight-white-males (with some notable exceptions) by and large have not experienced that feeling of otherness, and thus do not reflect it in their writing. Thats as close as I can come to put it into words. And it's a purely personal preference.

I dont believe for a moment that men write better books than women, or women better books than men. I couldnt write a male MC if you paid me in chocolate and Cabernet Sauvingnon. Other women can.
Sue Townsend notably wrote "The Secret Diary of Adrian Mole, aged 13 and 3/4" and every British male I have met & asked assures me that she captured perfectly the mind of a male teenager. (And do, do, do read it if you can, it is horribly funny!)

And, as anodyne pointed out much more lucidly than I could, an awful lot of it lies in the mind of the beholder/reader, and is self-fulfilling prophecy.

[LizzieGirl]

I was being sarcastic. That's what the "oh wait" at the end was suggesting. Sorry if it wasn't clear! Tough to be sarcastic on the internet! Believe me I know how picky kids can be, and I would never presume to insult the exact audience I write for. In fact I think it is because of the great deal of respect I have for kids that is one of the reasons why I write for them!

I love JK Rowling and get really fed up when people don't seem to respect the fact that she is one of the biggest authors really ever. They make excuses, a genre writer, a kids book writer. . . doesn't count. And that offends me. I was being a bit snarkish I must confess in my sarcasm.

Sometimes I miss read. I'm sorry too. I thought that's what the oh wait was for but I wasn't sure. All clear and good on my end.

[davids]

It only irritates me when the author is either male or female-you could however as one earlier poster suggested change to a dark pen-say like--------Charles Mandrake
-Simon Ochre
-Benjamin Dunkle
-Bradford Dill Pickle

Just some suggestions from a dude who has never read YA and has never used his real name for a damn thing!!!!

[Alexandra Little]

I remember reading in someplace, and also testified to by YA (thought not dark) author Tamora Pierce that, while girls have no problem reading about boy heroes, boys often have a hard time reading about girl heroines--and, I believe, most girl heroines are written my women. But this goes to the whole gender divide and gender stereotypes that are reenforced in childhood, not the quality of the writing or what is wanted by publishers.

[scarletpeaches]

It only irritates me when the author is either male or female-you could however as one earlier poster suggested change to a dark pen-say like--------Charles Mandrake
-Simon Ochre
-Benjamin Dunkle
-Bradford Dill Pickle

Just some suggestions from a dude who has never read YA and has never used his real name for a damn thing!!!!

I'll come to you when I need a gender-neutral pseudonym for my YA fiction.

[glutton]

I'm an odd bird: a male who prefers to read about female protagonists, but only if they are a certain kind of woman - that is, the hardcore warrioress type. I don't like the more stereotypically "wimpy" female MC's, though, especially not the ones who whine and moan and needed to be saved. I guess as a wimpy guy, I long for a big tough heroine to protect me. :D

Writing by males does tend to more often appeal to me, though. It seems to me that action written by men is more likely to possess the kind of "visual intensity" which I enjoy. That said, some women can write that way too; for fight scenes, Donna Gillespie especially comes to mind.

All in all, I guess it doesn't matter to me if you're male or female, as long as you're HARDCORE; it's just that more men do write HARDCORE. But in the end, if you're hardcore then you're hardcore irregardless of gender, and if you're not . . . you're not!

[swvaughn]

Thanks for all the great responses, everyone! :D You can't please all of the people, all of the time... yeah, you know how it goes.

As my local hard rock station says, I'm shooting for 86 percent of the people, 74 percent of the time. :D

[Alexandra Little]

I'm an odd bird: a male who prefers to read about female protagonists, but only if they are a certain kind of woman - that is, the hardcore warrioress type. I don't like the more stereotypically "wimpy" female MC's, though, especially not the ones who whine and moan and needed to be saved. I guess as a wimpy guy, I long for a big tough heroine to protect me. :D

I like you.

[Hobbes]

Doesn't matter to me one bit. A writer is someone who can create a different world through their imagination, period. I will say though that I'm not a fan of weak women characters--unless that's who they are, but not as a stereotype. That goes for tv too. My wife isn't a crybaby or someone who screeches at a spider so would I think all women are?

[WriterInChains]

Maybe, but that's an argument by assertion, as well. Such a list may be prejudiced based, or it may be that men have done whatever it is better than women. Both views are merely assertion.

It does seem women have done pretty well in the field of writing, and they've certainly had plenty of opportunities from the 19th century on.

That argument may hold a teaspoon of water, but if the lists of the best are compiled by men, they'll also be filled by men. If only due to the aforementioned differences in taste.


To answer the OP: I don't care if the book's written by a man or a woman, or the gender of the protag -- if it grabs me, if I have to find out what happens next, I'll get past page 50. My shelves (I just looked) are pretty evenly split (literary/genre; female/male author).


And I don't see how anyone can take that Time list seriously -- look how far down Hamlet is!

[Shady Lane]

I have to really disagree with that "guys write the best guys". It's just simply not true. And offensive, to both readers and writers.

I don't mean it offensively at all. I just mean....it's a presonal thing. If I'm reading a book and the male MC breaks down and cries at a strange place, I'm goinig to consider the gender of the writer. If it's a boy, I'm going to think this is a fantastic insight into the male mind. If it's a girl, I'm going to think she's waxing sensitive and making her boys too gentle.

Now, obviously, this is a stereotype. And I'm well aware. I'd add the whole "some of my favorite writers are girls" disclaimer, but I just don't think it's important. The fact that writers are overlooked because of their gender is the exact point. It happens. It is happening.

I go through a similar struggle when I'm writing. Whenever my boys show any emotion, ANY, I have to look at it and make sure I'm portraying my boy as an honest, socially-pressured boy and not an impression of the way I want boys to be. I think some female writers forget to do that.

[maestrowork]

Does an author's gender matter to you as a reader?


Not a bit. However, the narrative voice, style, POV, word choices, etc. may, and sometimes gender does play a role in that.

[pdr]

are writers and writers usually read anything.

I can't remember which writers' or publishers' journal I read the following information in, but it was last month.

Apparantly, according to market research done for a major publisher, the majority of men prefer and choose to buy and read male authors and won't knowing buy a book written by a woman.

There were some snippy asides about male editors doing this too!

[Inkdaub]

If I think about my favorite writers the truth is that the list is dominated by men. I don't think too far into that, though. I like women writers...if I like them. Same goes for the men I guess. I never consider the gender when choosing a book at the shop.

[althrasher]

I read mostly women's writers...don't know why. It's not a consious thing, it's just that most of the books I buy happen to be written by women. I never look at the author before I buy the book, though, unless it's someone I know. I bet I will after this thread, though...
I hope my males are believable. I don't really think about it too much, since I mostly hang out with guys anyway. I worry more about my females. So it goes.

[Spiny Norman]

I remember this coming up about television script writers. The example on hand was "House" is written by mostly men whereas "Gray's Anatomy" is written largely by women. Both are about the lives of doctors, but the two are incredibly different both on the character level and thematically.

Maybe it's more about genre and setting out to make something completely different. But that begs the question that perhaps women are attracted to write a certain breed of work than men are.

[ClaudiaGray]

Generally, no, an author's gender doesn't matter to me. There have been moments when I have thought a male author wasn't doing a very good job of capturing a female POV, or vice versa, but I always chalk it up to that author, not a tendency of all male or female writers.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Snipped...

Does dark YA get shuffled off to dusty corners of the bookstore in favor of lipstick and boy-giggling and cheerleader-turned-sports-hero-rules-high-school Sweet Valley stuff? (Not that I have anything against Sweet Valley... it's just not the kind of thing I write...)

I agree with MacAllister. The first name that comes to my mind is R. L. Stine. Stine's series is anything but cutesy or Sweet Valley. And the works are pretty decent sellers.

Do YA readers, particularly older teens and adults, avoid female writers unless they're absolutely sure, via friend recommendation or other impossible-to-market factors, they're going to enjoy her stuff?Personally, when I read a work the author's gender does not matter. However, I have heard other writers say that certain genres are more favorable toward female writers than others. An example of this is Erotica, one of the genres I work in. Because I am male, as well as a Fantasy author, I use a pseudonym with which to write my Erotica stories. Like yourself, my pseudonym has a first and middle initial, with a last name. The letters are widely used for both male and female names, so many people could assume what they wish about my writing.

Of course, I made the mistake of using as my last name, a male first name. I can only hope that those people reading the pseudonym don't automatically say, "Oh, E. J. Harold is a man; I won't read the work", because of the last name.

What about other genres? Does it bother you to read romances by men, or thrillers by women -- consciously or subconsciously? If you've never thought about it, have a quick look at the books on your shelves. Are your genres dominated by what's considered the normal-gendered writer?Consciously or subconsciously I personally do not care what the writer's gender is, under most circumstances. I usually base my book-buying decisions on either genre or subject matter, and possibly on the name of an author I highly respect and/or have read before.

(Gee, SW, why do you care? Well, see, I wrote this book, and I got an agent, and she's trying to sell it right now... and it turns out it's YA and I never knew. And it's dark. Really, really dark. So now I'm wondering, what with my real name going on this one, will I be relegated to the shelf of ugh-female-YA-writer-there's-probably-bubble-gum-DON'T-READ-THAT! -- do I really have that many more hurdles to leap with this book?)

I'm. Not. Panicking.

Nope.

Whatcha think?I will admit that before I read this thread, I thought you were a man. Part of the reason, I think, was your old avatar (the anime man carrying a cross with what looked like belts wrapped around it) and the words underneath that avatar (fun-lovin' somb*tch). I figured you were male all this time.

Would I refuse to read your work because you're female? Heck no! Like Miss Snark used to say, "Good writing trumps all". What matters to me is that 1) a book is subject matter I'm comfortable reading, and 2) a book is well-written.

I hope this helps you out, SW. I wish you and your agent the very best in getting your book placed with a good house.

:)

[davids]

The snark broad did not invent the obvious-and SW is a cross-dressing hermaphrodytical ditch digger who has made vain glorious efforts to remain anonymousical! she is a good writer so what does it matter-that one is for you SW-and you know I just luv cross-dressing hermaphrodytical ditch diggers!!!!

[Sean D. Schaffer]

The snark broad did not invent the obvious-and SW is a cross-dressing hermaphrodytical ditch digger who has made vain glorious efforts to remain anonymousical! she is a good writer so what does it matter-that one is for you SW-and you know I just luv cross-dressing hermaphrodytical ditch diggers!!!!



Uhhhhhh,


Okay.

:tongue

[davids]

Uhhhhhh,


Okay.

:tongue

Just being marginally silly Seun-your points are well taken-SW will understand my silly comments-er-maybe?

[swvaughn]

The snark broad did not invent the obvious-and SW is a cross-dressing hermaphrodytical ditch digger who has made vain glorious efforts to remain anonymousical! she is a good writer so what does it matter-that one is for you SW-and you know I just luv cross-dressing hermaphrodytical ditch diggers!!!!

:D Davids, you know I luvs ya! And I think that's a pretty fair observation of me. I've never been much of a girly-girl... and I like digging ditches. :)

See, seun, it was working! S.W. Vaughn is meant to be suspiciously guy-like because of my violent thrillers. Alas, I blew my own cover... LOL

(shh, don't tell anyone. :D)

[davids]

:D Davids, you know I luvs ya! And I think that's a pretty fair observation of me. I've never been much of a girly-girl... and I like digging ditches. :)

See, seun, it was working! S.W. Vaughn is meant to be suspiciously guy-like because of my violent thrillers. Alas, I blew my own cover... LOL

(shh, don't tell anyone. :D)

Yet somehow intrigueing-sexy-desirously dirty ditch digger horny-kind of broad that knows exactly where the hell she stands and aint ashamed to stand in said ditch and show the world her----stuff!!!! What a lady-if anybody disagrees with me-just pick a bar where I can beat the crap out of ya-damn writer sissificators!!!!

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Just being marginally silly Seun-your points are well taken-SW will understand my silly comments-er-maybe?

I understood you were just joking. I see a lot of that in your posts. :)

One thing, though. My name's Sean. :D

:D Davids, you know I luvs ya! And I think that's a pretty fair observation of me. I've never been much of a girly-girl... and I like digging ditches. :)

See, seun, it was working! S.W. Vaughn is meant to be suspiciously guy-like because of my violent thrillers. Alas, I blew my own cover... LOL

(shh, don't tell anyone. :D)


Right on. It definitely worked, and for readers I would imagine it will still work.

:)

And the name's Sean. :)

[davids]

One thing, though. My name's Sean.

Sean Sean not Seun Seun-you da Sean-you da Sean-ever hit the wrong key on your keyboard-yah I know e and u are three keys apart-but my fingers cannot count! My most bumblascious appologetics!!!

[Sean D. Schaffer]

One thing, though. My name's Sean.

Sean Sean not Seun Seun-you da Sean-you da Sean-ever hit the wrong key on your keyboard-yah I know e and u are three keys apart-but my fingers cannot count! My most bumblascious appologetics!!!


It's all right. I figured you had me confused for the poster, seun.

Nothing to worry about. I'm in good humor today. :D

[swvaughn]

And the name's Sean. :)

D'oh! Where's a Homer Simpson smilie when you need one?

I knew you were Sean and not seun. Honest and truly. :D

And thank you!

[swvaughn]

Yet somehow intrigueing-sexy-desirously dirty ditch digger horny-kind of broad that knows exactly where the hell she stands and aint ashamed to stand in said ditch and show the world her----stuff!!!! What a lady-if anybody disagrees with me-just pick a bar where I can beat the crap out of ya-damn writer sissificators!!!!

Davids, you sure know how to make a lady blush. :) You're da bomb!

[jmindigo]

I only look at the name of an author when picking up a book to see if I know them or have heard of their work before. A glance at my bookshelf indicates a subconscious lean to female writers, probably because I have a preference for female protagonists. I picked up that perference as a kid, when I was little I wanted to read about girls like me - not stories about idiotic, muscle-bound men the library shelves were filled with at the time. It seems the more I write, the more I'll read anything. Sort of a side effect of deciding I want to be an author.

Of course at least half of the authors I love I thought were male until I found out otherwise. ^^; I have a gender neutral name myself, so I'm not too worried about my own audience.

As a random thought - the best brother-brother relationships I've ever read have all been written by women(Nightlife/Rob Thurman and Fullmetal Alchemist/Hiromu Arakawa come to mind first). I'm not saying women write brothers better, I just think it's interesting.

[Zoombie]

Apparantly, according to market research done for a major publisher, the majority of men prefer and choose to buy and read male authors and won't knowing buy a book written by a woman.



One of my favorite authors since long before I became a writer has been Tamora Peirce. She's a girl, and every single one of her main protagonists have been female.

One of my favorite authors from when I was thinking about being a writer was Robin Hobb. I mean...AWESOME!

And don't get me started on Tanya Huff. Actually, the only male authors I can name off the top of my head that I will buy a book because they wrote it is Harry Turtledove and Alystair Reynolds. Reynolds for his cutting edge sci-fi and blistering creativity, Turtledove for his almost absurdly huge tapestries and lots of interesting historical wriggles he puts in his books. Also, need I say more than "World War Two retold with magic."


So either I'm atypical, or the marketing people are being dumb again.

Also, I am going to offer why I like writing about females, playing females in video games and reading about females. It's a very guy answer, see.

If I am going to spend a chunk of my life with a character, either imaging them in my head, or looking at their ass all day (which seems to be the default camera view for too many games), I'd rather have it be a pretty female ass. :D

The less guy answer is that I'm a guy all my life. So I'd like a bit of change every once in a while and see what it's like to be a different sex.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Snipped ... Actually, the only male authors I can name off the top of my head that I will buy a book because they wrote it is Harry Turtledove and Alystair Reynolds. Reynolds for his cutting edge sci-fi and blistering creativity, Turtledove for his almost absurdly huge tapestries and lots of interesting historical wriggles he puts in his books. Also, need I say more than "World War Two retold with magic."

...Snipped.


Interesting. I'm pretty much the same way, although my choice in authors is slightly different. The only male authors I can think of whose books I would buy just because they wrote them, are Robert Louis Stevenson, A. E. van Vogt, and James D. Macdonald. Really, I can think of just as many, if not more, female authors whose books I would purchase just because they wrote them.

The names Anne McCaffrey, Jane Yolen, Andre Norton, Mercedes Lackey, and E. Nesbit, are the first names that come to my mind. All women.

[Zoombie]

Oh I forgot Mercedes Lackey AND Dyana Win-Jones. Those are good too.

[Sean D. Schaffer]

Oh I forgot Mercedes Lackey AND Dyana Win-Jones. Those are good too.

What genre does Dyana Win-Jones write in? I don't think I've ever heard the name before.

[Zoombie]

I think I misspelled her name horrifically. She writes fantasy, such as Howls Moving Castle, Year of the Griffen and so on.

Though Year of the Griffen was hilarious and should be read by everyone. Imagine Hogwarts, funded by the public school system. So the roofs are leaky, the teachers are imcompetent and the classes are boring. The students are so normal and yet so strange, just like in real life. I mean, they complain about homework, drink coffee, complain about homework, cram for tests, and complain about homework. But they also dodge assasins, try to figure out how to get tastier food than the terrible food in the cafeteria, dodge pirates, some evil griffons and so on.

Quite hilarious.

And it's got an unexpected trip to the Moooooon!

[Sean D. Schaffer]

I think I misspelled her name horrifically. She writes fantasy, such as Howls Moving Castle, Year of the Griffen and so on.
...Snipped.


Year of the Griffin? I think I've heard the title before. Either that or the variation of the last word: Gryphon. Either way, I could swear I've heard that title before.

I might just look that up before too long. From what you describe, it sounds like a pretty good story.

[Zoombie]

As I say, quite hilarious.

[Britchik]

What about other genres? Does it bother you to read romances by men, or thrillers by women -- consciously or subconsciously? If you've never thought about it, have a quick look at the books on your shelves. Are your genres dominated by what's considered the normal-gendered writer?
Looking at my shelf, I only have two types of novels. Fantasy: predominantly female writers. Historical fiction: predominantly male. That being said, I don't think it has anything to do with the gender. I don't even bother to look at the author until after I've bought and read the book and have decided I might like to read more by that author. So I guess my general answer to this would be, no, it doesn't bother me at all. Whether these are normal-gendered writers... I'm not sure, I've never really noticed what is considered to be the norm for these genres.

[Stijn Hommes]

No, the authors gender doesn't interest me at all.
I care about whether I like the story.
Both men and women have written stories I like a lot.

[glutton]

idiotic, muscle-bound men

O_o

What about muscle-bound women, idiotic or otherwise? :D

[Joni Holderman]

I like to know if the author is male or female, but it doesn’t influence my choice of books. In fact, I almost invariably buy the book and read a chapter or two before I get around to checking the author out. I’m fine with thrillers written by women or chick-lit written by men, as long as they do it well.

I remember once starting a novel that opened with a scene in the 1950s. The scene was the rape of a young black woman, and seemed extremely unconvincing to me. I just couldn’t believe that any woman would think or feel that way, under those circumstances. I flipped to the back cover, and the author was a young white male. If the writer had been black, or female, or old enough to remember the 1950s, I might have given him or her the benefit of the doubt and finished the book.

On the other hand, if the scene had been convincing, it wouldn’t have mattered.

I also like author photos. I don’t know why, I just feel like I know more about where the person is coming from when I know what they look like. I like it when they look like an average person, not incredibly attractive.

[BlueTexas]

On the other hand, if the scene had been convincing, it wouldn’t have mattered.



In the end, I think that's all that matters, no matter which gender wrote what.

[Alan Yee]

Oh I forgot Mercedes Lackey AND Dyana Win-Jones. Those are good too.

For what it's worth, it's Diana Wynne Jones. At least you knew you were way off on the spelling. :D

[Alexandra Little]

Tamora Pierce has one male protagonist, Briar Moss, who is the main character in two out of twenty five books, I believe (Briar's Book in The Circle of Magic Quartet and Street Magic in The Circle Opens). Oh, I guess you could count Pasco in Magic Steps, and I don't know about her short stories. But now I'm getting slightly off topic (Tamora Pierce fangirl in me showing through :))

[sadron]

It doesn't matter to me.

[Thatshim]

My opinion it is important who wrote the story: male/ female, young/ old, American/ European, what was their education level etc.
Most of the good writers projected themselves into their stories (Hemingway, Charlotte Brontë for example), and for a reader it is significant to know about the writer in order to understand the story.

[Zoombie]

For what it's worth, it's Diana Wynne Jones. At least you knew you were way off on the spelling. :D

It doesn't matter how her name is spelled, it matters how much I love her writing. Which is a lot. Now, I'm going to crawl up in bed because I am feeling very lethargic.