Indian novels/western readers

[abdasgupta1]

Hi,

I have been wondering about this for a long time. Can somebody give me a good enough reason as to why Indian authors do well in the West ( read VS Naipaul-Nobel; Jhumpa Lahiri-Pulitzer; Kiran Desai, Arundhati Roy-Booker; Salman Rushdie-Booker of Bookers etc etc).

First of all, do the Whites even read these Indian authors like they do other White writers? I would very much doubt that.

Second, it is my theory that these Indian readers take their route to fame/awards through the vast sub-continental/Asian diaspora living in the West for whom anything sourced from back home is of immense value, call it nostalgia, culture or simply, roots.

For example, an Indian filmstar performing at NY or London would draw greater crowds than even a Brtiney. I say this with some responsibility. It is the sheer magic of numbers for us. For every White reader, there are at least 100 Brown readers salivating to read a back-home novel.

Then why do intelligent Western agents come up with a staple: " I can't sell this to an American/English reader?" Can somebody put this debate in focus, pl?

BTW, after 350 plus rejections, I have now landed a bigtime agent in London for my debut...yes, very back-home...novel.

So, I ask...

[blacbird]

First, all the writers you cite are famous and successful with Western audiences, and, yes, non-Indian readers read them. You could probably triple or quadruple that list, to include Vikram Seth, R. K. Narayan, Kamala Markandaya, Muk Raj Anand, Rabindranath Tagore and many others. It is worth recalling, however, that V.S. Naipaul and the excellent and unrelated Shiva Naipaul are both from Trinidad and center most of their work on that island and its Indian community. The world is getting smaller every day.

caw

[Jamesaritchie]

Indian authors do fairly well in America, but not nearly as well as home-grown authors. I suspect the readership they get is based simply on the fact that many like to read about unusual places and themes. Kipling certainly did very well writing about India.

But your theories don't really hold water, at least in America. The vast majority of sales by Indian writers in the US are made to white readers, not Indian readers.

As for an Indian performing in New York, I don't find you theory to be at all true.

[alleycat]

As for an Indian performing in New York, I don't find you theory to be at all true.
I'd agree. I don't know about London but I doubt many New Yorkers (cosmopolitan as they like to make out) even know who most Indian film stars are.

One hears about "Bollywood" here but not many people actually watch the films except the art house crowd.

[Dave.C.Robinson]

Some Indian writers do very well in the west for a number of reasons. A big one is that many of them are very good writers. It doesn't hurt that a lot of the ones who do come over to the west write literary fiction, which adds to the likelihood it will win awards.

For what it's worth, my mother, a former teacher in the UK, reads and enjoys a number of such writers. I personally don't read most of these novels, but I don't usually read literary fiction.

They write well, get the buzz, and people read their books.

[waylander]

Bollywood stars certainly pull out the crowds over here. They are now making some Bollywood movies in the UK and white UK actors/actresses are starting to appear in Bollywood films.

[abdasgupta1]

1. Amitabh Bachchan or Shah Rukh Khan, two of the big stars in India, Pakistan, Asia, perform to bigger crowds than those flocking to Brtiney/Madonna shows in the US/UK. This is a fact. Yes, the Whites don't go/care for their shows but for almost all Asians out there, it's a homecoming. Tickets are hard to come by and the sales are in millions. You should see some video footage for you to believe me.

Yes, all the shows are patronised only by Asians, not Whites. Which is what I am trying to say. If these same Asians read an Indian book, the sales would be in millions. So what stops them from publishing us and why the statement: "This won't sell in the US/UK"," I wonder.

2.Taking off from that, I wish there were separate publishing companies for us Asians. Not a bad idea that. They won't run at a loss, I assure you. Just check out our numbers against yours.

3. Finally, all the big names mentioned above in the various posts are big, no doubt, and read worldwide with a lot many awards etc gaving come their way.

The point I made was different. They were NOT read by the Whites before the Asian diaspora made them stars and read them in millions. It is only now that they are being devoured by Whites after the Nobels, Bookers and Booker of Bookers brought to them by wide sales across the Asian readers.

If there is one person who can say with some honesty that he/she had read Jhumpa Lahiri before the Pulitzer, I will be greatly awarded. Mind you, the person who stands up to be counted has to be a White living In LA! Or anywhere else in the White-only, Barnes & Noble world!

[aruna]

Hi Abhijit!
Actually, I have the opposite experience! When I was with HarperCollins they were really hungry for books set in India and about Indians - so much so they practically forbade me to write a book set in Guyana about Guyanese, which was not considered trendy enough. I was told repeatedly that India was hot and that Britons loved India.

People from publishing told me at the time that Britons still have a nostalgia about India as the "Jewel in the Crown", and romantic notions about colonial times. During colonialism many fell prey to India's undeniable magic and brought back great stories - for instance, Kipling and M.M. Kaye - these were white writers writing about India. I read MM Kaye's autobiography, and it paints a picture of a beautiful, magic world totally unconnected with the misery and poverty that is so much of India's reality. I think this is the world that white British originally wanted to reconnect with; and then they were overwhelmed with the great literary writing of the likes of A. Roy, V. Seth, Rohinton Mistry and - dare I say it as I didn't like the one book of his I read! - Rushdie. Then the focus changed to commercial writing by young Indian writers living in Britain or the US. Indian chick-lit came into fashion. I can name off the cuff at least five such writers. A favourite theme is arranged marriage, which for Western writers seems to have a great fascination, as I guess the conflict is built in.

I think the difficulty youhad in finding an agent had to do with the feeling that maybe India has passed its literary prime. And I deliberately say India rather than Asia, as I can't claim any knowledge on the official literary view on other Asian countries - although Burma made a bit of an inroad with The Glass Palace.

It seems to me that the focus has shifted to Africa. There was that successful "Ladies Detective" series, and I recently read in a literary mag that writers from Nigeria are totally being gobbled up by publishers. My ex-agent in London had a notice on her website that they had a special agent who dealt specifically with writers from the Indian sub-continent, Now that has changed to an agent who deals specifically with Africa!

I am hoping that after Africa the Caribbean will be "in", because that will be my big chance!

As far as India is concerned, I think the trend for this literature started in Britain and the US followed suit.

[abdasgupta1]

Well said, Sharon. So now, it's Africa? Good! And African writers won't be faced with the question, "Why should anybody in the US/UK read this stuff...It's so unfamiliar!" And then, after all the Africans in the west go ahead and read them, and sales shoot up, out will go the Pulitzer/Booker to Mr/Ms Africa!

Thank God, I got an agent soon enough...never too late, before the White focus shifts to the Antarctica!

Watch this space...

[aadams73]

Please don't paint us all with the same brush. Many of us "White" people love to read books set in unfamiliar locations regardless of what is trendy.


Mind you, the person who stands up to be counted has to be a White living In LA! Or anywhere else in the White-only, Barnes & Noble world!


I see you've never been in a Barnes & Noble store.

[aruna]

The thing is, nobody knows anything. Really. Publishers want to make huge sales, but they really don't know where the next BIG THING is going to come from or what it is going to be. The public taste can't be calculated. So if one book from Africa suddenly becomes a hit, they all swarm after Africa. If a book from Antartica becomes a hit, indeed they will swarm after Antartica. A lot of it is guesswork, running after trends, and since it's the marketing people who make most of the decisions these days the literary instincts of people who really might have a feeling for which books have that special something, and which don't - ie, editors, book people - are often ignored so that they, too start thinking in terms of numbers instead of trusting their own intuition. (ETA: ooof! What a horribly long sentence! Sorry!) I saw this happen with my own editor - she also got caught up in the India trend and at one point she paid a ridiculous amount at auction for one of those Indian chick-lit books - which subsequently bombed.

[aruna]

Please don't paint us all with the same brush. Many of us "White" people love to read books set in unfamiliar locations regardless of what is trendy.


Indeed, it has nothing to do with being white. I love books set in unfamiliar locations; I love travelling, and since I can't go everywhere reading a book that takes me to a foreign country is an excellent substitute for going there myself. Publishing, however, does indeed function according to trends.

[abdasgupta1]

Please, no negativity out here! I am just plain and simple confused. Period. And i raised a simple question up for a healthy debate. Nobody should feel rattled/hurt/prejudiced/incensed. No intentions of hurting anybody's sentiments by painting anybody with any brush. That's not my job. Aruna has made a clear statement and that could be quite useful for me.

[alleycat]

Please, no negativity out here! I am just plain and simple confused. Period. And i raised a simple question up for a healthy debate. Nobody should feel rattled/hurt/prejudiced/incensed. No intentions of hurting anybody's sentiments by painting anybody with any brush. That's not my job. Aruna has made a clear statement and that could be quite useful for me.
I'm glad you cleared it up. Frankly, I was becoming offended by your posts.

[aadams73]

Indeed, it has nothing to do with being white. I love books set in unfamiliar locations; I love travelling, and since I can't go everywhere reading a book that takes me to a foreign country is an excellent substitute for going there myself.


Precisely! Right now I can't afford to travel every place I want to go, so books about those locations are the next best thing. I know it's non-fiction, but I recently finished Sarah MacDonald's travelogue of India, Holy Cow. Her writing was so vivid that I could almost smell India. (In some cases a good thing, and other times...not.) She truly took me right there. I love novels that do the same thing.

Publishing, however, does indeed function according to trends.

Gawd, yes. Please, no more vampires. And New York and LA are done to death as settings.

[aruna]

Gawd, yes. Please, no more vampires.

Or werewolves!!!!

[alleycat]

Please, no more vampires.
I would certainly agree with that. And no more obvious LOTR and Harry Potter knockoffs.

[abdasgupta1]

So, read me...Debate over. Thanks! :-)

[aadams73]

So, read me...Debate over. Thanks! :-)

When you tell us when and where we can buy your book, absolutely! Best of luck to you. :)

[scarletpeaches]

Imagine if someone made a comment about only white people reading their book; that would be racist, but it's okay to say only Asians read Indian authors?

I would say that I make a point of seeking out Indian authors but that would sound like I was trying to prove a point, ignorant, insular white girl that I am.

[alleycat]

So, read me...Debate over. Thanks! :-)
Well, I didn't know there was a debate other than how big Indian filmstars are in the US.

But . . . here's a question for you. If there is such a naturally huge market for Indian authors in the US (I assume written or translated into English since you're offering your work to western agents), why doesn't an Indian publisher pick up on this and sell the books in the US? Then it would be a mute point whatever western agents or editors say about whether the books would sell. They'd either sell or they wouldn't.

And I am just talking about the US. The situation may be completely different in the UK with the long history of ties between Britain and India. I'm just not familiar with that situation.

[abdasgupta1]

Sorry, if I sounded like I was even vaguely suggesting anything to do with racism. I did not mean ONLY Asians reading Indians; what I said was a majority of Whites read Indian Jhumpas after they have been driven to pick them after awards and the Asian diaspora interest. But we are talking of the lay reader here, not any published members of this board who, I would have thought, are in an advantageous position to give a deeper insight into the US/UK literary psyche instead of feeling that I was hinting at their insular blinkers-on view. I was/am not. I was just seeking an answer since I stay thousands of miles away, have never been to the West but am still very much in love with Meryl Streep and appreciate and respect, well, almost, everything Western.

As for the question on why Indian publishers do not sell in the US, I have no clue. May be, foreign exchange, for one; legalese, for another. But I don't know frankly.

This is a literary board with people across cultures giving their opinions on diverse subjects. If I have, coming from a totally alien culture, hurt the feelings of even one member of this Western-majority board, that has been purely unintentional and I am sorry if that has been the case. My apologies.

There was never any debate. There was a question, yes. And I find it partly answered.

[alleycat]

No problem. There was just a slight misunderstanding of the rationale behind the question you were asking.

[abdasgupta1]

Thanks, AlleyC. You make me feel more at home.

[aruna]

As for the question on why Indian publishers do not sell in the US, I have no clue. May be, foreign exchange, for one; legalese, for another. But I don't know frankly.



I think they would not be allowed to. The publishing world is pretty much blocked out by who can sell what where. For instance, I sold British and Commonwealth rights to my publisher and they can only sell books in those countries. My British publisher is not allowed to sell its books in the US. Not even in Canada; even though Canada is in the Commonwealth; Canada is allied with the US when it comes to book sales.

[Memoirista]

Maybe it would be helpful to disentangle some of the reasons that books set in South and Central Asia are at the top of my priorities--and if they are memoirs, all the better. Or first-person fiction.

My dissertation involved a Syriac manuscript from the Malabar Coast of India (Kerala), so I wanted to know about Kochi and Kerala and the religious mix there, and did some reading maybe ten years ago. I got to know some people from India who live in my large apartment building. I already knew a professor who spent all his spare time in Sri Lanka. The people in my apartment building were from Tamil Nadu, were Tamil-speaking, one of the languages of Sri Lanka (devastated by the Tsunami of 12/26/2005). Circling back, I now have a student who is from Kerala, studying Syriac with me. He (also) speaks Maylayalam. Where Tamil is a language of the Southeastern Indian Coast, Maylayalam is a language of the Malabar Coast/Southwestern India.

I read Sharon Maas's PEACOCKS DANCING, and learned more about Tamil Nadu; then read the memoir by Shoba Narayan MONSOON DIARY, partly because it was memoir, partly to learn more about India so I could read the MAHABHARATA in Aruna's translation. Then I was reading first-person fiction and came to love the Mary Russell series by Laurie R. King. The most recent of those first-person novels (imitation memoirs), THE GAME, was set in India and Central Asia, in the days of Empire, thirty years or so after Kipling's KIM. In THE GAME, Mary Russell prepares herself for India, on the boat going there, by reading THE MAHABHARATA. In my stack of books yet to read are an annotated edition of KIM, and Khaled Hosseini's KITE RUNNER, both of which (I think) involve what were once the Northwest Territories (or is that Idaho, Washington, and Oregon?).

By name and complexion I am Scandinavian, yet know very little of those lands in modern times--except how many Scandinavians wind up in Mediterranean lands in the winter--because I grew up tutored by a mother who thought she was raising world citizens. And went to schools that thought everyone was an immigrant and origins should be celebrated.

Now, as to why Indian-made books don't sell in the West, I will be talking prejudice based on limited experience. The Indian-made books I have seen have been of poor quality, whether in English or in Devanagiri or in any other script. Sometimes I don't have a choice, but if I do, I would prefer the binding and paper used in Western editions to those in the Indian editions I have seen.

[willietheshakes]

Canada is allied with the US when it comes to book sales.

Not really, actually, though it may appear that way from a distance.

Canada is a very distinct market from both the US and the UK/Commonwealth, especially for books either originating within the country or for deals made in Canada first. Yes, if a US publisher buys North American rights, they'll be able to sell those books in Canada, but American (US) rights titles can only be sold in the US.

[aruna]

Not really, actually, though it may appear that way from a distance.

Canada is a very distinct market from both the US and the UK/Commonwealth, especially for books either originating within the country or for deals made in Canada first. Yes, if a US publisher buys North American rights, they'll be able to sell those books in Canada, but American (US) rights titles can only be sold in the US.

Maybe - all I know is that British and Commonwealth rights don't cover Canada! I was told that I would have to sell North American rights separately. I'm just saying that I don't think it would be possible for an Indian publisher to sell their books in the US, if not even a British publisher can do so.

[aes25]

To the contrary of O.P., there is a huge demand for fiction in international settings right now. Writing about India would be a huge plus, not a negative. I suspect your rejections came because of other reasons than an inability for Indian books to sell in the U.S. The proof is all the books about and/or by Indians being published right now.

And as for Lahiri selling much better in the U.S. only after she won the Pulitzer: well, no offense, but "DUH." It'd be the same if she were a lesser-known white author who won the Pulitzer. Major awards translate into more sales. It's a pretty race-blind concept.

Genre fiction could be somewhat country-centric, but I suspect (without any evidence to back this claim) that good literary fiction tends to appeal to many cultures other than that of its own setting.

[abdasgupta1]

We digress from my original question. I said the INITIAL interest in the Jhumpas and the Arundhatis are almost always FACILITATED by the huge Asian diaspora reading them first and then spreading word-of-mouth publicity, culminating in serious lay reading and the awards. My question is why don't publishers/editors/agents understand this simple formula? And I repeat that we Browns/Asians are huge in numbers in the West and even if a publisher were to pick up a somewhat readable India/Pakistani/Sri Lankan writer, writing about back home, there would be a sitting duck readership ready to gobble it up. No complaints though; it's happening all the time...the getting read, that is. I guess it was simply my bad writing which led to 450 rejections before somebody ( and believe me, that somebody is pretty big, thank you) saw some merit in it and picked it up last week. My problem is with the staple rejection: " Who is your reader?" and the more irritating, " There would be no market for this in the West." If the response had been purely from a literary standpoint, then, of course, no issues. But if that is a market-driven response, then I think I have a point up for questions to be asked.

[aruna]

I read you - I had similar argumenst with my fourth novel, though in that case they were, on the surface, justified - Guyana is a country of only 700000 inhabitants inland (and somewhat more than that abroad!) so there really wasn't a built in reading population as there is for India. It was just assumed thet the British wouldn't want to read a book set in Guyana; it had nothing to do with literary merit.

However, it seems that my own instinct was correct; none of us knew at the time that Guyana would be the World Day of Prayer focus of the international Christian world for 2007- 2008. There is an enormous promotion for my books going on in Germany right now. I have given two workshops already and my books sold like hot cakes - most of the women buying all two of them, sometimes four copies - and these are all church community leaders who will go home and spread the word, especially as there's a donation of €1.50 to a charity in Guyana per book. The press is already after me, with a Catholic magazine (circulation 200000) giving the cause a lead article. And I am booked out with presentations all of October, November and January - more book sales coming up!

Trouble is, these aren't the right books. They are set only partly in Guyana, mostly in India. The women keep asking me "which one is more about Guyana?" and when I told them about the unpublished "one that got away" they all groan. They are encouraging me to try and get it published in time for next March and guarantee a huge push; this is from top level leaders in the German WDP committee.

I just don't know if that is possible at this late stage,. I don't know if I can get a German publisher to take it on and get it translated by next march, especially without it being published in the UK first. It's the perfect book for the cause as it is all about Guyana's history which nobody knows outside the country and is really quite fascinating, especially since the Booker Prize originated out of our history. It's an amazing opportunity and they missed it. There is very little literature on Guyana out there and this would have been THE book for the churches to promote.

A German agent is looking at it right now but frankly I think it's just too late. After March the chance will have passed and they will be looking for books on Papua New Guinea. So that's it, folks: write a book set in Papua New Guinea, that;s the next country on the list!

Can you say Missed Opportunity?

[abdasgupta1]

Thanks, Aruna. You speak my language...

[BlueBadger]

Maybe - all I know is that British and Commonwealth rights don't cover Canada! I was told that I would have to sell North American rights separately. I'm just saying that I don't think it would be possible for an Indian publisher to sell their books in the US, if not even a British publisher can do so.

That's kind of odd, since Canada IS Commonwealth and often gets the UK prints of books ... though not always. It's a bit of a guessing game.

[willietheshakes]

That's kind of odd, since Canada IS Commonwealth and often gets the UK prints of books ... though not always. It's a bit of a guessing game.

It really depends - a lot of stuff originating out of the UK or Commonwealth DOES come from the UK publisher (a lot of the MacMillan stuff, Terry Pratchett, Wilbur Smith, etc). My own personal experience: having previously sold Canadian Only rights to Before I Wake to Random House Canada, my UK contract read UK/Commonwealth excluding Canada, which I take to mean that, typically, that rights market for that publisher includes Canada...

Like most of publishing contract stuff, I'm guessing it depends on the individual publishers and the particular work.

[Memoirista]

My problem is with the staple rejection: " Who is your reader?" and the more irritating, " There would be no market for this in the West." If the response had been purely from a literary standpoint, then, of course, no issues. But if that is a market-driven response, then I think I have a point up for questions to be asked.

Congratulations on your success in selling your book! I want to recommend the book/the ideas in the book Thinking Like Your Editor (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/Thinking%20Like%20Your%20Editor:%20How%20to%20Writ e%20Great%20Serious%20Nonfiction--and%20Get%20it%20Published) by Susan Rabiner and Al Fortunato. This is a book about writing non-fiction--developing the argument and producing the proposal. BUT the part that you might find helpful, if you can get a copy, is the beginning, which is all about the business focus that an Editor of your book has to have. S/he has to (or you have to tell her/him) what audience there is for the kind of book you have written. If you can find a way to link that audience to a book that has done well, it helps.

You see, an Editor has to take your book into a conference with other editors at the publishing house, and promote it to those other (jaded) editors as a saleable product. By now you have probably written a literary masterpiece, yet if the way it will sell is not fairly obvious to the Editor who gets it from you or from an agent, the Editor has a very very hard sell.

It sounds as though you have other books to try to market. Do you want to try us out at AW to see whether we can find the market/audience/selling points that would help an Editor put the book over in an editorial conference?

[BlueTexas]

Hi,

I have been wondering about this for a long time. Can somebody give me a good enough reason as to why Indian authors do well in the West ( read VS Naipaul-Nobel; Jhumpa Lahiri-Pulitzer; Kiran Desai, Arundhati Roy-Booker; Salman Rushdie-Booker of Bookers etc etc).

First of all, do the Whites even read these Indian authors like they do other White writers? I would very much doubt that.




I read Naipaul not realizing he was an Indian writer, so yeah, I read him like I'd read any other book, White or Indian or Black or classic or genre. I don't read Zora Neale Hurston with prejudice, so why would I with Naipaul?

[abdasgupta1]

Thanks, Sigrid. But no, the book, though it hasn't got sold as yet, is in safe hands with my agent. So, though thanks but no, I shall ask later.