where's the sex?

[Bealeblast]

It was suggested by the erotica thread that I ask this question here because it has to do with women's fiction as opposed to genre romance...anyway....

I've noticed that in a lot of women's fiction there's this big blip that happens between the begining of a love scene and the end...so I say, where did all the sex go? I mean between two (or more, I don't really care) as long as they're consenting adults and there's some fun and foreplay involved?????

I'm trying to come up with good examples of current women's fiction titles with good sex in them. I've heard Jane Smiley's latest has some...
Thoughts anyone?

[katiemac]

I think it works like any other scene, really.

If two of your characters are arguing, for example, sometimes it's not important for the reader to see the argument. The real point is that they had the argument at all, and it doesn't really matter what it was about. So, as the author, you skip over those details because in the long run it's not important who raised their voice first, or who said what when. Only that it happened.

Same idea with sex. If the scene is included, it's got to matter in the long run, for the sake of your characters and for the sake of your plot.

[Alexandra Little]

I actually like not having a sex scene. I read a lot of romance, and I usually skip the sex part because *yawn* boring. And funny when read aloud. It also doesn't have anything to do with the plot--yes, romance involves sex, but sex isnt necessary in order for two people to fall in love.

Maybe--considering some of the romance books I've been reading--they should ban the sex alltogether, and the author might actually have to come up with a Plot *gasp! a plot? surely not!*

[Tracy]

I used to write quite graphic sex scenes - well, graphic within the context of mainstream women's fiction. But I've stopped doing it as it didn't add anything to the story and many readers said they found it jarring. I know do soft focus, soft music (or the literary equivalent), and that seems to work much better, for me anyway.

[EriRae]

A professor of mine insisted it wasn't the sex, but what came after the sex that was essential to the novel. One of the characters used the sexual encounter to gain intimacy with the other partner in order to influence the direction of the conversation (or events) afterwards. In that case, the sexual encounter would be fluff.

Too often, writing about sex has the opposite reaction than what was intended, and may push the reader away. If you do it, and you're good at it, thumbs up. I'm really bad at it. I avoid the anatomy/bump-n-grind aspects of sex in my work, and concentrate on the before/after.

[gingerwoman]

Sex scenes should involve emotions and character development.

[aadams73]

From Jenny Crusie and Bob Mayer's online workshop: Action scenes: Sex (http://www.crusiemayer.com/workshop/she-wrote-action-scenes-sex/jenny/)

[Stacia Kane]

Personally, I dislike romances without sex, and like to write a lot of sex in my books. My Urban Fantasy only has one full sex scene, but it's a scorcher and that's the way I like it!

IMO if a reader gets emotionally involved in these characters the way I hope they will, they deserve that payoff just the same as the characters do.

And there's lots of plot in my books too. :)

[David I]

I'm told that sex is the thing I write best. Probably because I usually go for awkward. (The women generally like it better than the men.)

I'd prefer I wrote something else best, but there you have it. I'm trying to be a Serious Author, but it runs out I'm an Erotica Hack. Sigh.

[Penguin Queen]

Janet Evanovich writes some great sex scenes, between the foreplay and pillow talk & in other situations.
The first time Stephanie Plum rides a Harley Davidson, she revs the motor a few times and "had a small orgasm". :D Also from chocolate cake.

And as far as I remember, shes the only woman in mainstream fiction who mentions her nipples hardening in response to certain men. I love Evanovich. She does it very well, it's funny and enjoyable and all part of life. I wish more writers wouldnt tiptoe around sex as though it was some big scaly beast.

[maestrowork]

If there's no purpose for the sex scene other than "they love each other, so they make love" then I don't think it's necessary. We know people have sex. We know people go to the bathroom, but we don't have to write about it. We get it. Unless the sex scene moves the plot along, reveals secrets, further develops characters, etc. there really is no reason for it. A good scene should be memorable, and not just in a "it's hot" way.

[JoniBGoode]

I think this has to do with how important sex is in your world view.
Another question might be "Why is there gratuitious sex in so many novels?"

When I was in my early 30's, I thought the sex scenes were often the best part of a book, and I was disappointed if they were missing.

Now that I'm in my early 50's, I usually skip the sex scenes. They just seem trite and boring. I much prefer it when the writer alludes to the sex, but leaves out the details.

[Spiny Norman]

Sometimes the sex can be described in a manner integral to the character. Say, in having sex with *blank* character, they're fulfilling their desire for savagery, for intimacy and closeness and connection, or consummating and admitting their perversity in denial of something else. Sex can be a tool just like anything else in writing, from action to description.

It doesn't even have to be an explicitly erotic description, either. But putting it in there just for the sake of arousal comes off as cheap and meaningless, to me. If I wanted porn I would watch some porn. God know there's plenty of it on the internet, so you've got some competition...

[rugcat]

If there's no purpose for the sex scene other than "they love each other, so they make love" then I don't think it's necessary. We know people have sex. We know people go to the bathroom, but we don't have to write about it.A lot of people feel this way, but I think it’s just a rationalization for people to avoid writing sex scenes. Would you say, we know people eat–why describe the meal? Or, hey, everyone knows it’s difficult to scale the outside of a skyscraper, so why bother to describe it? Lets just gloss over the actual climb and join them at the top.

Sex scenes can be hard to write, because many people feel uncomfortable talking about sex. A lot of people are uncomfortable even reading about it. Thus, the “only if it’s absolutely necessary” school of thought.

That said, there’s nothing that says you have to write them, If you’re comfortable with writing sex scenes, go for it. If not, leave them out. If you’re concerned that it will disturb or turn off potential readers in your genre, don’t be. An editor will rip them out for you.

[Jamesaritchie]

It was suggested by the erotica thread that I ask this question here because it has to do with women's fiction as opposed to genre romance...anyway....

I've noticed that in a lot of women's fiction there's this big blip that happens between the begining of a love scene and the end...so I say, where did all the sex go? I mean between two (or more, I don't really care) as long as they're consenting adults and there's some fun and foreplay involved?????

I'm trying to come up with good examples of current women's fiction titles with good sex in them. I've heard Jane Smiley's latest has some...
Thoughts anyone?

If the sex were on stage, it would be erotica. Or porn, which is just erotica by another name. Fortunately, most readers prefer story and character over porn.

[funidream]

I attended a workshop once where the teacher wrote on my pages "we need to see penetration here..."

I tend to draw the curtain, so to speak, at a certain point in a love scene. I find the actual mechanics part boring to read, and so I focus on the pre and post parts.

Just like everything, different strokes... ;-)

[JoNightshade]

It's all about context. Who are your characters? Who is your audience? My current WIP stars a couple of very private, reserved characters who would never even refer to sex publicly. Odds are, even if they do end up in bed together (undecided at the moment), I'm not going to show it in detail. They wouldn't "want" me to; and the kind of people who would be reading my book probably wouldn't want to read it, either. On the other hand, I had another project where my secondary character was actually a prostitute. Even her casual conversation was a string of sexual innuendos. There wasn't anything erotic about it (she was obnoxious), but she was the kind of character you'd follow into the bedroom now and then.

[Celia Cyanide]

I generally think of characters in a book the same way I think of my friends. I assume they have sex, but I don't imagine what it looks like.

In many stories, the fact that 2 characters are having sex may be integral to the plot, and their characterization. But all the details of what happened when they had sex are not. To extend the friend analogy, my friend might tell me she had sex with someone, but she doesn't give a detailed explanation of how it happened. If a writer goes into detail, I find myself thinking, "Uh, thanks, but I'm an adult, I know how these things happen..."

This does not apply, however, to books in which sex is the main theme. In a book like that, sex IS the plot. The first example that always comes to mind is Crash by JG Ballard. Sex is the theme of that book, and a certain kind of sex that is not typical. But if it's vanilla, I don't need to have it explained to me.

[Melanie Nilles]

I think the reason we avoid writing sex scenes, besides they can be boring, is because it is something very intimate for the characters, (like the example of not writing about a character going to the bathroom). Saying that it can add to the characterization to go into details is simply an excuse to write something that isn't necessary. You can show your character's personality in other ways. Yeah, they have sex. So what? I want to read about PLOT, not how many women a guy can lay and how he does it. Sure, it may be part of the plot that two characters have sex, but I don't need to know how. If I want a little excitement, I already have the real thing at home when I want it. Why read about it?

Many of us as readers are uncomfortable with voyeurism. That's what it is to read a sex scene--like watching porn. I would much rather have the before and after and use my imagination to fill in the rest, if I even go that far. As I said, HOW a person has sex isn't as important to me as the rest of the plot. It's just another activity, unless you have a story that's all about the sex, but we already have a genre for that.

When I read the genres I read--science fiction and fantasy--I want to read something with some depth. I'd rather have romantic tension than two characters getting busy and have the main plot take center stage, not the sex.

That's MHO.

[c.e.lawson]

I agree with the others who stated that sex simply for the sake of sex is really unnecessary in a story and can be a turn off. But if it moves the characters along emotionally in a meaningful way, or shows growth or change in a relationship and adds to the story, then it can enhance your work. BUT - saying that - the scene itself must be written well. And that means not focusing on the mechanics and the body parts, IMO. A really sexy sex scene emphasizes the emotions and sensations of the characters, not the mechanics of the act. A sex scene can be ultra "hot" without mentioning body parts specifically. Diana Gabaldon does this wonderfully in Outlander, and each sex scene between Jamie and Claire shows something important about their relationship or the characters that breathes a certain kind of life into the story.

[BlueTexas]

I'm with the posters upthread up likened sex scenes to bathroom scenes. I know they do it, but just like reading about doing laundry is boring and unnecessary, sex scenes can be too.

Plus, I just plain don't like it.

[sassandgroove]

PArt of it depends on the intended audience.

[Sassee]

I'm ornery with my sex scenes. I lead up to them with extreme amounts of tension and buildup, and then cut it off just before the readers get to the juicy part. Usually this is because my characters are interrupted in the act for some reason or another, and then there's lots of pent up energy they have to deal with while taking care of the interruption. Plus I like making readers squirm :)

[Beware_of_Italics]

I usually skip over the sex scenes except with Diana Gabaldon's Outlander series and Karen Marie Moning's Highlander series. With these characters I definitely feel that they're madly in love with their mate, so those scenes to me are more than just sex. So... there's my recommendation. :)

[Bealeblast]

Wow, great comments....almost equally split between sex and no sex as a personal preference for readers AND writers.

I agree sex has to move character and story...sometimes sex is where certain things get acted out when the characters don't want to verbalize or show another way how they feel or what they want....for instance, rough sex and anger in men...is it about the sex or, as in the case of one of my characters, the stock market is bottoming out and he's lost tons of money...With the woman in this same novel, trust is a major issue...but for whatever reason (revealed slowly) she finds it easier to enjoy sex with men she's not in love with.... so stuff like that can occasionally benefit by having this extra theater for emotions to play out.

[bittersweet_angel]

this depnds on the story....if the two lovers were far apart and meet after a long time then the love scene becomes interesting...i think you must agree because no one would like to read about the daily love making of a couple. the writer must have the ability to keep the reader involve in the book, there are ceratin things that should not be eloborated. nowadays, people are curious to know about the love making between two homos....am i not right?

[Zoombie]

I have a scene where two virgin lovers slowly take each other's clothes off. They fumble, bump noses, miss kisses in the dark, make nervous jokes, dissolve into giggles when they try to be romantic, then it cuts away with,

"What's next?"

He showed her.

And cut!


Does that count as a sex scene? Cause I think it's not, but others might beat me senseless if it is.

[EriRae]

this depnds on the story....if the two lovers were far apart and meet after a long time then the love scene becomes interesting...i think you must agree because no one would like to read about the daily love making of a couple. the writer must have the ability to keep the reader involve in the book, there are ceratin things that should not be eloborated. nowadays, people are curious to know about the love making between two homos....am i not right?


I have a gay relationship in my novel, but um...yeah...I'm kinda unable to experience that kind of relationship and don't have gay friends that willing to go into detail about their sex lives in order to "get it right." So my boys kiss and another character (from her PoV) catches them in the act of getting naked and leaves before she sees anything more.

People are curious about that sort of thing? Read Mysteries of Pittsburgh. I will never look at corn syrup the same way again.

I'm happy with my foreplay/cigarette/skip-the-middle sex scenes.

[EriRae]

I have a scene where two virgin lovers slowly take each other's clothes off. They fumble, bump noses, miss kisses in the dark, make nervous jokes, dissolve into giggles when they try to be romantic, then it cuts away with,


And cut!


Does that count as a sex scene? Cause I think it's not, but others might beat me senseless if it is.

I have several scenes like that, that give you the awkward before and often the after. I had one scene that the female discussed with her friend in the next chapter. The important part of the scene was not what happened between the boy and girl, but the fact that the boy spread it all over school the next day, so I cut the foreplay.

[aruna]

Count me in in the "less is more" gang.
And it's not because I am uncomfortable with written sex or embarrassed. I just like novels with strong, character-driven stories, not necessarily love stories, and sex scenes invariably slow things down. I am impatient to know "what next"? I know how sex is done,. I am not reading to get turned on. I am reading to know how the characters feel about each other, and where they go.

Obviously there's a market for readers who want detailed sex scenes. There is equally a market for people who don't. I say, write the kind of book you want to read, and everyone will be happy.

Basically, I agree with Celia Cyanide. Some people say "you have to write sex scenes" to get to know the characters. Well, I know my friends well enough without having to know how and how often they have sex. So that's not the real reason . The reason is you like to read them; but some don't.