Midscene POV Switch

[Azraelsbane]

Just a question about this. Is it considered acceptable to swap POV when the main POV char loses consciousness or dies? I have one section of a chapter where it is mandatory that the POV swaps in order to continue. As long as I don't digress into a forest of pronouns would it work?

[Joe Moore]

Have you previously established the second character's POV? If so, it might work. What you don't want to happen is for the new or second POV to seem like it comes out of nowhere and confuses the reader. The only other alternative is the narrator if the main POV dies. I would avoid that. But wouldn't losing your main character basically be the end of the story?

[Dave.C.Robinson]

You can certainly swap POV during a chapter, it's simply best to avoid it within a scene. What I'd do is first make sure I couldn't tell the entire episode from the POV of the character it swaps to, and if not, I'd split it into two scenes at the point where the main POV character falls unconscious.

[Azraelsbane]

But wouldn't losing your main character basically be the end of the story?

My novel has 5 POV chars. The part I'm working on right now is actually my antagonist's rise from his mortal shell to his more powerful state. His lackey is under orders to change him back after so many years (he has been posing as a mortal), and the physical metamorphosis also instills a huge personality swap, along with the narrator no longer referring to him by the name of his mortal persona.

In my opinion this is the equivalent of a POV blackout. I actually find it much more jarring to continue in the antagonist's POV, than to give a glimpse of what he has become through the eyes of his minion. Any thoughts?

[Joe Moore]

Any thoughts?Now that you've explained it, it makes sense. Good luck.

[NeuroFizz]

A POV switch like this usually follows an extra blank line, just like the double spacing used for a time break.

[Rhea L]

I'd tweak it in such way that the POV character's death happens at the end of the chapter. It would probably be more powerful that way, and let you avoid POV switching to which many people, yours truly included, are allergic.

That, or put a scene break after their death before you continue with a different POV character.

Hope that helps. :)

[JJ Cooper]

I'd tweak it in such way that the POV character's death happens at the end of the chapter. It would probably be more powerful that way, and let you avoid POV switching to which many people, yours truly included, are allergic.

That, or put a scene break after their death before you continue with a different POV character.

Hope that helps. :)

Agree with this one. Twice my MC falls unconscious. Because I'm writing third limited, both times ended the chapter. Just seemed logical to me.

JJ

[Chasing the Horizon]

I'm probably not a good one to ask, since I switch POVs mid-scene regularly (as do most of my favorite authors). When one character loses consciousness is certainly one of the easiest times to switch gracefully, though.

[JoNightshade]

I shy away from having my POV character lose consciousness WHILE I'm in his POV. I regard POV to be just as sacred as first person as far as these issues are concerned-- how could HE tell the story of passing out/dying? It's typically not possible. So if there is a scene in which that character loses consciousness, I will tell it from another POV from the beginning, or switch sometime before the loss of consciousness occurs.

[JoNightshade]

Another thought on that... often it's actually more of an impact to relate someone's demise or collapse from a more remote POV. Trying to do it from the POV of the character who's experiencing the agony often comes off as exaggerated or over the top, whereas removing yourself a little to someone else's point of view, your reader is left to imagine for himself the agony (mental or physical) the character is going through.

[scarletpeaches]

I'd have a scene break at the very least. Preferably a chapter break.

I once changed character POV midsentence. It went like this:

Character one said, "Blah blah blah." He thought it was going well-
*
but character two thought, thinky thinky think. Then she said, "Blah blah blah" and slapped his face.

[ZannaPerry]

Yeah, I would suggest just to have a scene break and then switch to the POV you want to write in.

[Varthikes]

I've read a book by Alan Dean Foster where the POV switches mid-scene without any kind of break.

[maestrowork]

Just a question about this. Is it considered acceptable to swap POV when the main POV char loses consciousness or dies? I have one section of a chapter where it is mandatory that the POV swaps in order to continue. As long as I don't digress into a forest of pronouns would it work?

If the POV character loses consciousness or dies mid-scene, can you just make it a chapter break? To me, it's very jarring to follow a POV character, then "he didn't feel good and passed out. Meanwhile, Mary realized Jack had passed out and came to the rescue." It's probably better just to do a scene break (you can continue with the scene) or a chapter break.

Just my $0.02.

[Azraelsbane]

I've read a book by Alan Dean Foster where the POV switches mid-scene without any kind of break.

Yeah, I'm reading a best-selling author that swaps POV mid-paragraph. She seems to have done it consistently since her first novel, so search me.

I'm usually a scene break POV swap person, but there are two chapters where it is mandatory that the POV swaps mid-scene, and strangely enough, they are chapters that have gotten some of the best reviews from my betas.

Personally I only have a problem with swapped POVs when it's extremely jarring, or when it becomes a pronoun nightmare. If it's super close 3rd person limited, then it's almost always jarring, but if it's not so close, and leaning towards omniscient, if it's done well, then I don't give it a second thought in my reading.

[job]

Really, you can switch POV anyoldhow you want to. You can do it at the chapter break, at the scene break, or you can do it in the middle of a paragraph.

The clearer and more obvious the existing break in the narrative is, the easier it is to do a non-jarring transfer of POV.

One character losing consciousness and another character picking up the line of narrative seems a very natural break.

If you want to include a hiatus, (i.e. a set of skipped lines, indicated in the ms with a centered hashmark #) you can. Most literary changes of POV are not accompanied by a hiatus.

Generally, I'd say to start your POV changes near the beginning of the story so the reader comes to expect them. One POV flip, midway through, is going to jar a bit.

[JanDarby]

Also, consider scene structure. A scene is, in essence, a microcosm of story, with a beginning, middle and end, with rising conflict that comes to a head and is resolved (usually putting the protagonist in a different, often worse, state of mind or body). It starts with a pov character taking action (or deciding to take action or something along those lines, involving a goal and pursuit of it); the pov character struggles toward his/her goal, with the scene antagonist opposing that goal, and there's rising tension, and a resolution, where the goal is either achieved or blocked or some hybrid outcome. End of scene.

So, applying the elements of structure to pov, if the pov character has lost consciousness, the scene, logically, is over. The pov character can't be acting toward a goal, because he's unconscious. The pov character can't be involved in any conflict, because he's ... say it with me ... unconscious. The pov character can't even be reflecting on what to do next, because he's unconscious. If the conflict is resolved for the moment, the tension is gone, and the scene is over. The reader is ready to jump to a new conflict, a new scene. When you start the next scene, it will establish a transition from the moment of unconsciousness, plus establish a pov character (the same as before or a new one), with a goal and an action toward that goal, which is being opposed by someone until the struggle comes to some sort of resolution, and that scene is over.

If what matters in the scene -- the key conflict -- is what happens when Character A is unconscious, then it's probably not his scene -- he's not the one moving the story forward, the struggle/conflict is unrelated to him, even if he's the victim of it -- and would be more effective from another pov. If what happens while he's unconscious doesn't matter to the scene goal, then you can skip it, and, if necessary, mention it in passing later (e.g., he awoke in the hospital, and an orderly told him the cops found him in the alley, or another character tells him that, or you're in a new scene, with a new pov character finds him and struggles to get him to safety).

I'm trying to think of an example where it really matters what happens to an unconscious POV character while he's unconscious, where that's the focus of the scene, and I really can't. I'm sure someone could, but generally, what happens when the character is unconscious isn't important enough to show in real time, largely because it's inherently devoid of conflict.

JD

[Carmy]

LOL Thanks for the laugh, Scarletpeaches. It's a beaut!

I switch POV within a scene but I always leave an extra line space.

[Sassee]

I agree - do a scene break (the extra space between paragraphs, or the little # sign).

[davids]

Have you previously established the second character's POV? If so, it might work. What you don't want to happen is for the new or second POV to seem like it comes out of nowhere and confuses the reader. The only other alternative is the narrator if the main POV dies. I would avoid that. But wouldn't losing your main character basically be the end of the story?


great advice here


In my opinion this is the equivalent of a POV blackout. I actually find it much more jarring to continue in the antagonist's POV, than to give a glimpse of what he has become through the eyes of his minion. Any thoughts?

yes yes and yes again-standing against all or most rules of thumb or literfarty stuff-grammarians shut their ears please-this is or would be what? Interesting? Fascinating? Enthralling? jarring? I luv a bit of good jarrin'-Yup all of those and more-key? Write it well or as they say-do a real good bit of raconteurial wrahtin!

[maestrowork]

To me, it's more suspenseful with a "blackout" and the protagonist has to piece together what happened or changed when he was unconscious. Remember the scene in Casino Royale in which James Bond became unconscious and then woke up strapped onto a chair, naked? It's so much better than if we had followed the bad guys after Bond became unconscious.

[J.S Greer]

New POV= New Scene.

Scenes do not necessarily have to = a whole chapter. There can be multiple scenes within a chapter, and switching POV's within can and does work if it makes sense.

If you switch too often, or at the wrong time (such as within a single scene) then the reader will be more apt to get confused, and the flow of your story could be thrown off. Then again, switching POV's every chapter can be equally as unsettling.

I usually have my MC have most of the POV spotlight along with a few other secondary but important characters every now and then. I only switch if it serves the story though. Villains/Antagonists make for nice POV switches. If you can clue your readers in on something that you MC is unaware of then it heightens the tension doesn't it?

"Oh no, but if the villian does that, then it would mean..." And the pages don't stop turning...

[scarletpeaches]

To me, it's more suspenseful with a "blackout" and the protagonist has to piece together what happened or changed when he was unconscious. Remember the scene in Casino Royale in which James Bond became unconscious and then woke up strapped onto a chair, naked? It's so much better than if we had followed the bad guys after Bond became unconscious.

I haven't seen that yet, but you just sold me the movie.

[J.S Greer]

To me, it's more suspenseful with a "blackout" and the protagonist has to piece together what happened or changed when he was unconscious. Remember the scene in Casino Royale in which James Bond became unconscious and then woke up strapped onto a chair, naked? It's so much better than if we had followed the bad guys after Bond became unconscious.

Exactly. We didnt need to follow the bad guys picking him up, stripping him and tying him to a chair...We "Woke up" to the scene when he did, and felt the same panic set it...

Although he was in far more pain than I was:D

[David I]

There's nothing wrong with changing POVs mid-scene, if you have a good reason and if you can do it with skill. The reasons people are taught to shy away from it are:

1) They do it in a confusing fashion, or
2) They do because of inattentiveness, or
3) They do it because of lack of discipline, or
4) They do it when the scene would have been stronger without the shift.

Just be aware that you are doing something that requires attention. (Check out how it can be done in full flow in Ann Patchett's novel Bel Canto.)

[JimmyB27]

I forget what it was now, but I read something not too long ago that did just this. They treated it as if it were a scene break - just an extra blank line at the point of change. Didn't jar me at all.

[wayndom]

The only way I can imagine a midscene POV switch would be a problem would be if it's first-person for both characters. If it isn't first-person for either character, I don't see a problem at all.

Anne Rice's The Mummy (which sucked, but not because of the writing style) changed POV with every chapter, and ended up with about five or six POV's. It's kinda sad, because I'm sure she put a huge amount of work into it, and it was nothing more than a literary soap-opera with entirely predictable results at every turn.

But the POV's worked just fine, and were quite impressive.

My own (published) novel has several POV switches, and I really never gave any thought to how many there were or anything like that. They were done where necessary.