Anne Rice Totally Stole my Idea

[LJ Hall]

Okay, not really. But I have a concern. My novel involves vampires and werewolves.

My worry is, once you use the words vampires and werewolves in a summary, are you entirely stuck? There are so many novels out there with the same elements used over and over again - the goth punk vampires lurking in underground clubs, or the oversexed packs of werewolves. Mine isn't like that. It's got an entirely different dynamic.

In trying to write a query I keep finding myself describing not only the plot, but the ways in which this isn't a standard vampire/werewolf blood-feud Kate Beckinsale type thing.

So...how many preconceptions do you guys have? If you read 'vampire novel' do you figure you already know the tone, the plot, the characters?

(I'll tell you where this worry comes from. I go to Evil Editor's site periodically and read through, and it seems like every other query is vampires and supernatural, so I worry that agents are getting the same percentage. To the point where just the word 'vampire' might be enough to get them to turn me down. Make any sense at all?)

[Shady Lane]

It sounds like you've got a new and exciting idea, so you've just got to figure out how to present it in a new and exciting way.

What makes your ms different from those other vampire books? Draw it out, squish it into sentences, and there's your query letter.

For the record, F. Scott Fitzgerald stole my idea. Bastard.

[maestrowork]

Call them something else (bloodlusters and wolfmen? :D). Vampires and werewolves do come with a set of preconceptions and cliches and genre-specific stereotypes. In your queries, you can simply say "but these are not your ordinary vampires and werewolves" and let your plot speak for itself.

[Azraelsbane]

You know who stole my idea? Frickin' Catholics.

Note: Was raised Catholic, please refrain from throwing the stones already poised in your hands.

[MidnightMuse]

Joss Whedon so stole everything from me!

Seriously, let your story do the talking (or in this case, query) to show how you and Anne Rice have actually nothing in common.

[reenkam]

Can you hold off on using the worlds vampire and werewolf until the end, or at least the middle, of the query? That way the agent can get more involved in your story and won't reject just because of those words.

The fact that you have an entirely new view on things (though...I hope it's not the same new view I have in my WIP...) hopefully means that agents will look past the assumed views. I think they're always looking for something new out there, especially since supernatural is huge right now. I know some people say it's going to go away, but I think we still have at least a decade before a peak.

So got for it and good luck! :)

[swvaughn]

There is always room for vampires. :D

[LJ Hall]

Geez, you guys are quick.

Thanks! I feel better already.

And, Reenkam, I think I can tell by your titles that our worlds are entirely different. No worries. :-)

(I was raised Catholic too, Azraelsbane. Those jerks ruin everything. No, I'm kidding. But not.)

[RRK]

Stephen Hawking stole his History of Time from my fourth grade paper...

And Legally Blonde stole that line from me! My gosh, everywhere I look they're stealing!

I think there's a great market out there right now for vampire and werewolf stories. Speaking entirely as a reader, not one with any knowledge about agents, I'd think that an agent would be aware of the current trend towards paranormal stories, and would hopefully be looking for just what you have to offer: a novel in the correct genre, but with a different take on things so it isn't just one among thousands.

[Azraelsbane]

Geez, you guys are quick.


(I was raised Catholic too, Azraelsbane. Those jerks ruin everything. No, I'm kidding. But not.)

I'm agnostic now, and my mother prays for my soul every night. I have such a fun family! :D I'm sure you understand. :Hug2:

[ccarver30]

I think if you have original twists (Twlight by Stephenie Meyer) than it makes it more interesting. i.e. Steph wrote that the reason that vamps can't go in to sunlight is because their skin GLITTERS (not b/c they will burst in to flames) and it causes too much attention/suspicion etc. I love that!

[JohnDavidPaxton]

I apologize in advance if this is in no way helpful:

In my novel I have vampires. I go out of my way to make certain that everyone in the world calls them "Dragons." That the reader thinks of them as "Dragons." That's the slang term, it's what everyone knows and uses.

My vampires don't drink blood to survive. They have giant, conspicuous wings. Their entire bodies are covered a thick, green exoskeleton. In short, they're a pretty radical departure from everyday lore.

So I sure as hell don't talk about them in the query stage.

[reenkam]

I apologize in advance if this is in no way helpful:

In my novel I have vampires. I go out of my way to make certain that everyone in the world calls them "Dragons." That the reader thinks of them as "Dragons." That's the slang term, it's what everyone knows and uses.

My vampires don't drink blood to survive. They have giant, conspicuous wings. Their entire bodies are covered a thick, green exoskeleton. In short, they're a pretty radical departure from everyday lore.

So I sure as hell don't talk about them in the query stage.


Wow........I was going to do that in my series. Well, they had red scaly skin instead of green exoskeletons, but still...

*sigh* it's ok though, i had another idea, too. i'll let you keep the creepy dragons.

[Zoombie]

My LIVING IMPAIRED drink blood to survive. They have giant, conspicuous wings. Their entire bodies are covered a thick, green exoskeleton. In short, they're a pretty radical departure from everyday lore.

So I sure as hell don't talk about them in the query stage.

So...why call them Living Impaired if they have absolutely nothing in common with standard myth?

[Joe Moore]

Mine isn't like that. It's got an entirely different dynamic. I would assume that every author of vampire & werewolf novels is facing the same dilemma: how to stand out from the pack (no pun intended) in trying to sell their book. Here’s an exercise you might try. Imagine that the top horror literary agent in the country is sitting in a room. Waiting outside are 1000 horror novelists, you included. Each of you is going to get a chance to walk in and, in one sentence, tell the agent what makes your book different from the other 999. Then you must leave and let the next writer do the same.

What would your one-sentence pitch be? Good luck.

[Xx|e|ph|e|me|r|al|xX]

Xx|Heey! Fellow vampyre writers. :D

I've considered the same problem, actually. When I started writing my WIP, as much as I loved (and love ever more now) the characters, I was fascinated by the vampyre aspect. Now, though, the story is thousands of miles in the opposite direction--they just so happen to be vampyres. The story's all about them. But I can just imagine it either being turned down or stereotypically marketed on that vampyre aspect. I've considered taking it out, but it's so intertwined. It's weird.

For me, because I don't want people to hear that I'm writing about vampyres and draw conclusions, I try to not do the same to others. But the sad truth is, there are hundreds of cliche vampyre stories these days. >.< Published and otherwise. But hey, if its popular, I'm sure agents/editors/publishers would love to pick it up. It's a selling point. I, personally, don't want mine to even be on the bandwagon for even, say, the cover. I can just picture the marketers latching onto the vampyre thing as a selling point and giving it one of those creepy fang-and-blood shots for the cover. That kind of thing is what I don't want happening--I'm sure no one does or would. But the vampyre thing is a good selling aspect...

[/musings and ramblings]

I like that analogy, Joe. I might try that...God, one sentence. That's hard.

Oh, and I'm gonna pull an Alfie, here. I write about the "Victus Infractus". :ROFL: Not really PC like "living impaired", but it's just so...species-name-ish. It's "living impaired" in Latin. I love the sound of it. :tongue

*trots back to word document in a haze*|xX

[LJ Hall]

My vampires don't drink blood to survive. They have giant, conspicuous wings. Their entire bodies are covered a thick, green exoskeleton. In short, they're a pretty radical departure from everyday lore.

So I sure as hell don't talk about them in the query stage.

They sound like dragons to me. What makes them vampires?

[LJ Hall]

I'm agnostic now, and my mother prays for my soul every night. I have such a fun family! :D I'm sure you understand. :Hug2:

Actually, it was my mother who got fed up and steered us away from the church. My family's all boring and understanding and whatnot.

[Zoombie]

I've held it back...but everyone on this thread is a horrible racist.

The beings in question have lobbied for decades for equal rights. They've had marches and rallies and various other organizations that have pushed for Equal Rights for Undead. But still we see people casually referring to these disabled people as Vampires.

It's like calling an African-American a...niggra!

The correct name for these...people is: Living Impaired.

I will continue to represent this underrepresented disabled group and I'll keep badgering you people until you change your ways.

My mother actually tried to teach me every religion she could get her hands on...and I still chose Atheism. Mostly becuase they have equations and...reasons and so on.

[LJ Hall]

Oh, come off it, Zoombie. The living-impaired are zombies. Or ghosts. Bloodsuckers with fangs are vampires.

Honestly. If they don't want to be called vampires they should stop sucking all that blood.

[Azraelsbane]

My mother actually tried to teach me every religion she could get her hands on...and I still chose Atheism. Mostly becuase they have equations and...reasons and so on.


I like a little bit of mystery in my religious diet, therefore, I've decided to claim to be agnostic, but really practice the religion of MC worship. Think I'm crazy? Prove to me that my MCs don't exist! :ROFL:

[Zoombie]

Oh, come off it, Zoombie. The living-impaired are zombies. Or ghosts. Bloodsuckers with fangs are vampires.

Honestly. If they don't want to be called vampires they should stop sucking all that blood.

No, no, no. Zombies don't have legal representation becuase they're brain dead cannibalistic corpses. Ghosts are Death Challenged.

[reenkam]

Why aren't vampires Death Challenged?

[Xx|e|ph|e|me|r|al|xX]

Xx|My intelligent contribution:

Lmao! :ROFL: XDD

*clears throat*

Okay then.

What about the Victus Infractus that call themselves vampyres? Or--heaven forbid--a blóðsuga? Alfie royally rolls his eyes and segues into a bombardment of intelligence. No one understands a word he says, and he curses his accent. He's at a loss when he finds it's not his accent causing the miscommunication as Michel gives him an apologetic look and Symph sticks his tongue out...Angel's suddenly quite late for work, too...

ETA (estimated time of arrival--er, wait...) -- I would imagine they're not death challenged because they're closer to being alive as far as the spectrum goes. Ghosts are having trouble moving into the afterlife. :3 XD|xX

[Zoombie]

Why aren't vampires Death Challenged?

Ghosts want to die, Vampires want to live. It's complicated legal precedent. Look up "Muggins V The United States Army" and "Kline V Ghostbusters."

[reenkam]

Xx|My intelligent contribution:


ETA (estimated time of arrival--er, wait...) -- I would imagine they're not death challenged because they're closer to being alive as far as the spectrum goes. Ghosts are having trouble moving into the afterlife. :3 XD|xX



Though, in some stories, doesn't a vampire's body die, but then they just don't really go along with it? That sounds like Death Challenged to me.

Unless Death Challenged and Living Impaired are the same...they seem close.

[reenkam]

Ghosts want to die, Vampires want to live. It's complicated legal precedent. Look up "Muggins V The United States Army" and "Kline V Ghostbusters."

What about the ghosts that want to live? Or the vampires that want to die?

I'm sensing some generalization here...

[HourglassMemory]

I think changing the names liek Wereowlf into something different would make your story even more different.
You could create a word that could become as popular as "muggle" or "werewolf".

[Zoombie]

What about the ghosts that want to live? Or the vampires that want to die?

I'm sensing some generalization here...

The courts are still working on the Right to Live and the Right to Die for various Undead creatures.

We're getting a surprising amount of resistance from the Shapeshifter Voting Bloc.

[JoNightshade]

So, I'm not trying to be pessimistic here or anything, but I wrote exactly 1 (one) short story about vampires. Generally I hate them on principle, but I had an idea so I wrote it. Submitted it. Got a handwritten note back from the editor of the magazine saying, "This is a great story, but vampires are overdone. Sorry."

My point is that it REALLY has to stand out. There are so many people doing vampire/werewolf stories that if you want to make a splash, you've got to have something very interesting and unusual that makes it rise to the top. What is that special something for your story? Put THAT in your query.

[Azraelsbane]

So, I'm not trying to be pessimistic here or anything, but I wrote exactly 1 (one) short story about vampires. Generally I hate them on principle, but I had an idea so I wrote it. Submitted it. Got a handwritten note back from the editor of the magazine saying, "This is a great story, but vampires are overdone. Sorry."

My point is that it REALLY has to stand out. There are so many people doing vampire/werewolf stories that if you want to make a splash, you've got to have something very interesting and unusual that makes it rise to the top. What is that special something for your story? Put THAT in your query.


You hate vampires... Jo, I don't think we can be friends any longer.

I have 1 vampire in my series, not a race of them. The creator of said vampire's world finds her molesting her son, and is so outraged that he loses control of his power and turns her into a being that must consume blood to survive.

She tries to create an army of "vampires" but fails, and all her creations turn into twisted Renfield types, but hey, at least they bow to her every whim, right? ;)

[Zoombie]

Note to self; have insane genetic engineer try to make vampires, but ends up with Inverse Vampires: The lack of sunlight makes them shrivel up and blood is deadly if they ingest it.

[JoNightshade]

You hate vampires... Jo, I don't think we can be friends any longer.

Mmm, I think if we was gonna not be friends any more, it might be more due to the, er, reverse crucifixion thing, and... like everything else in your books. :D

Just kidding. Believe it or not I am capable of respecting and liking people who have preferences different than mine. Wow!

Seriously, the whole blood thing just grosses me out. I'm totally fine with seeing blood, watching medical shows, etc. But someone drinking blood just strikes me as totally, utterly WRONG. Mainly I'm disgusted by this trend of making vampires somehow romantic and sexy. Sorry, drinking blood does not equate to sexy for me!!! It just makes me want to puke.

[Joe Moore]

I like that analogy, Joe. I might try that...God, one sentence. That's hard.It is hard, but so is selling your hook over the next guy in a crowded field like horror. But if you think about it long enough, you're bound to figure out what is the one thing that sets your story apart. Now, if there isn't anything that REALLY sets it apart, then you have another problem entirely.

Keep in mind that short 1-2 sentence descriptions are common. Open any copy of TV Guide and you'll find hundreds of movies summarized in one sentence. Even though that's different from pitching your hook, it still proves that it can be done. Distill your story down to its essence. Why would someone want to pull money out of their pocket and buy your book over the next one on the new release table?

Here's a clue to a successful agent pitch: make the hook about the characters, not the plot. What does your character want? And what does your character need? Two different things. Great plots are a dime a dozen. Unique, memorable, compelling characters are rare. Good luck.

[Xx|e|ph|e|me|r|al|xX]

Though, in some stories, doesn't a vampire's body die, but then they just don't really go along with it? That sounds like Death Challenged to me.

Unless Death Challenged and Living Impaired are the same...they seem close.

Xx|Hmm...the vampyres I've had the pleasure of knowing have been at different states between life and death--their bodies functioning at a more basic level. One is still so close to living that he still ages a tad and his stomach is off and on hungry, but all it's doing is slowly burning itself from the inside out. Another is so far gone, her mind so instinctual, that she might as well be a zombie. And she's not the worst, even--she can still imitate life. A certain charm, she has...

That said, out of my three closest vampyric friends, 2 want to die but are unable to. The difference is, though, if they were given a chance to live again, they'd take it in a heartbeat. Because the fact that they're in between is the problem, not that they're alive--they want to be alive. If they can't have that, they'd rather be dead. Thus living impaired applies best. :3

Haha, zoom, love it. XD They could be... erypmavs. Woot. :tongue

Jo, you skeer me. T_T Ouch. Perhaps I'll get myself to an established author position (hurhur) before I try to get this vampy story published...

Thanks for the advice/thinking points, Joe. I remember seeing a thread about one-sentence summaries not too awfully long ago, and sat with the page open to "reply to thread" for about an hour. Never could come up with anything. Highly difficult. I think it's because the story is so complex and I'm so close to it, it's hard to summarize what comes through as primary. But it's a challenge. A project. Thanks. :D|xX

[Dave.C.Robinson]

I've got one WIP (currently on hold while I whip another into submission shape) which has vampires in it, but they are at most going to be a walk-on.

[JohnDavidPaxton]

"So...why call them Living Impaired if they have absolutely nothing in common with standard myth?"

Oh, they have lots of things in common with the standard myth. Sunlight, for one. "Immortality" for another.

They just don't have the ability hide amongst us, genitals, sex appeal, etc.

Hubris as it sounds, I feel like my take on vampires will ultimately be much closer to folklore and the spirit of vampires than just about anything Anne Rice has ever done.

My vampires come a multi-cultural view. African mythology, namely. Just because it's not the stand European take doesn't mean it's not part of lore, just an overlooked kind.

Africans? They also have awesome Mermaids.


"They sound like dragons to me. What makes them vampires?"

Why not? Not to be difficult, but most peoples dragons are just big, flying lizards. Why not make them big, flying lizards?

They're vampires because they're humanoid shaped, they live a long time and they only produce by killing, and don't really have much incentive to do either.

Not to mention they're reanimated cadavers.


"Wow........I was going to do that in my series. Well, they had red scaly skin instead of green exoskeletons, but still...

*sigh* it's ok though, i had another idea, too. i'll let you keep the creepy dragons."


Thanks! I rather like them.

But I think they're room for more than one kind of creepy, tough vampires that you don't want to sexify.

After all, look at the number of books with Anne Rice Vampires. I submit we co-exist.

[Kristiina]

When it comes to vampires and werewolves, I rather like the idea that the latter become the former when they die. So they are just two different stages of the same curse.

[Joe Moore]

Joe. I remember seeing a thread about one-sentence summaries not too awfully long ago, and sat with the page open to "reply to thread" for about an hour. Never could come up with anything. Highly difficult. I think it's because the story is so complex and I'm so close to it, it's hard to summarize what comes through as primary. But it's a challenge.I would rather face the task of writing a 250K word manuscript in 12 months that a one-page synopsis. It is truly painful. And yet, in the "business" of writing, it is a major part of the marketing of your book. Think of it this way: if it were easy, everyone could do it.

[Dave.C.Robinson]

The very much off-camera vampires in my WIP are very much like Anne Rice Vampires, with a touch of Laurell K Hamilton. In my defense I also have a very specific reason why they not only are that way, but have to be that way.

[Saundra Julian]

Sorry, my vampire is a sexy, woman chaser who gives great sex before the kill!
Sex sells, people... In Victorian England when Bram wrote Dracula, a bit on the neck was considered very risqué, even scandalous...go figure.

[ClaudiaGray]

If your take is fresh, trust me, agents will recognize it and be happy. There is a lot of talk of people being "tired of vampires" right now, but really what they are tired of is the same old Goth preening. Vampire books with a new kind of voice (like the fabulously successful Twilight series) can work very, very well. Come at the story from a new perspective, and I'd say you're in good shape.

[Wolvel]

When you do your query, focus on the main story and casually mention the vampire/werewolf part.

my own wip is a werewolf tale, but it is not done in the typical vamp/'wolf blood war, I have no vampires in mine. but my stories focus is on a young male 'wolf who has come of age and gets thrown into something head first. my first book is about him becoming who he is meant to be, not just a over sexed werewolf (but he 's not a prude). you see focus on a mc as your story point. you could mention about the vampire/werewolf aspect during your take on the genre it fits in.

just my .02

[TsukiRyoko]

When I read a vampire/werewolf novel, I do have preconceptions about what the story will be like, but I still read it anyway. Why? Simple. While there are common, expected elements in vampire/werewolf stories, they're time-tested and very enjoyable (at least, in my eyes). The reason they're so popular is because they present that image.

Now, if you manage to grab the readers attention, preconceptions or no, and break away from the usual image of the werewolf/vampire story, then it may not be just a good read, but a pleasant and original surprise as well.

[Saundra Julian]

I don't believe that "knowing" the central plot in vampire novels is a bit different than knowing the "ending" of a romance novel...so why is it a big deal with agents or editors?

[wayndom]

So, I'm not trying to be pessimistic here or anything, but I wrote exactly 1 (one) short story about vampires. Generally I hate them on principle, but I had an idea so I wrote it. Submitted it. Got a handwritten note back from the editor of the magazine saying, "This is a great story, but vampires are overdone. Sorry."


I'm glad someone pointed this out. As far as I can see, the correct name for vampires today would be "the publishing impared." The last time I tried to sell a vampire novel was circa 1999. It took forever to find an agent who'd touch it, and he tried like hell for a whole year to place it, even digging up very small presses. Virtually every editor who read it liked it, but said the market had been oversaturated with vampires, and no one (publishers or readers) were buying them. Several editors specifically blamed Anne Rice for the vampire burn-out (I disagree -- I think it was all the Anne Rice wannabes).

When I sat down to write Thor (which has a werewolf, but is not a true horror novel - and was published in six countries), bookstores all had horror sections, separate from fantasy and sci-fi. I haven't seen a bookstore with a horror section in years, and the last time I did, it was almost exclusively Stephen King.

If horror is selling again, I'd sure like to know, 'cause I have a finished, publishable vampire novel collecting dust.

Oh, and to address the OP: yeah, I'd avoid using the words vampire and werewolf if at all possible.

[Zoombie]

Or, you could come up with something new and original and call them something other than vampires (http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs11/i/2006/188/e/0/Novice_Vampire_by_JohnSu.jpg), then sell it that way!

But that might be a bit hard...seeing as how you've...sorta already written the book already.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Jim Butcher stole my character. I created this magician character in the early 90s. I had created a few scenes, but I didn't start actually writing the novel until a couple years ago. I finished it and was on my 2nd draft when I first heard of Jim Butcher and read Storm Front, his series for The Dresden Files.

I'm hoping mine is different enough, yet same enough, to interest an agent and publisher.

By the way, my story has vampires and a werewolf, but I don't even mention it in the query or synopsis since they are secondary to the main plot and character.

[EriRae]

Here's my take on why vampires aren't selling right now. Too many people glutted the market with books that were "about vampires" that weren't about vampires, that were poorly written, and that pissed off readers (aka: me). I remember one such book that, 100 pages in, the protagonist hadn't even discussed vampires! 100 pages about her research on 18th century Brits and the house her great-grandfather used to own...if a book's jacket blurb says it's about vampires, they'd better show up in the first fricken 10 pages, not 100.