Genital warts, Wales and Elvis [Archive] - Absolute Write Water Cooler

theo

08-10-2007, 04:02 PM

Genital warts, Wales and Elvis is the title of my first novel.
to put it brief it portrays a farcical story of Elvis faking his death in 1977 and moving to a little village in the valleys of Wales and the subsequent plots to withhold his secret existence and fend off any intruders. It involves sheep, rugby, rubber and mild sex to give an idea.

What I would like to ask is
Do you think I will have trouble at the agent/publishing stage, because my subject is Elvis?

Will certain "Elvis" people have to give approval?

Does it really matter?

endless rewrite

08-10-2007, 04:50 PM

I think you are going to have more of a problem selling genital warts in the title.

aadams73

08-10-2007, 04:50 PM

If you've got a really well-written and compelling story, I don't think Elvis will be any sort of problem.

Besides, it sounds pretty neat to me.

callalily61

08-10-2007, 04:58 PM

I clicked on this thread because of the subject line. I'd pick up the book in the bookstore, too.

johnzakour

08-10-2007, 05:15 PM

I think the genital warts in the title might be a bigger issue than Elvis also.

To me the "appeal" of putting genital warts in the title of a novel is kind of like a car crash; it might catch the morbid side of your interest for a minute or two, but it's not something you really want to be a part of.

Plus, the title actually seems more like a non-fiction title to me.

But what I think doesn't really matter. If you can get a publisher to go along with it, all the more power to you.

mscelina

08-10-2007, 05:39 PM

Prawn

08-10-2007, 05:51 PM

Just Me 2021

08-10-2007, 05:59 PM

I agree - I'm pretty sure that if it's parody and not a straight biography, you're protected - especially if it's sold as fiction. Many famous people are used in fiction without casualty to the writer.

Tracy

08-10-2007, 06:16 PM

Amazing title. In fact, compelling title. You'd just HAVE to pick it up in a shop. And the story concept is brilliant.

Don't know the answer to your question though, sorry.

Bo Sullivan

08-10-2007, 06:22 PM

I think Elvis's image and likeness and name are protected. I for one adore him.

kristie911

08-10-2007, 06:25 PM

Chances are good that if you sold the novel, the publisher will change the title anyway...and you won't have much say in it. I wouldn't sweat it. If it's a good story, someone will by it no matter what you've titled it.

maestrowork

08-10-2007, 06:29 PM

If it's satire you might be able to get away with it. Otherwise, you will hear from the Elvis estate.

mscelina

08-10-2007, 06:56 PM

Isn't parody protected? If it is a comedy along the lines of Bubba Ho-tep where Elvis lived in a nursing home and fought mummies, I think it may be protected speech.

How do people write all of those unauthorized biographies of public figures?

I would be willing to bet that Elvis' daughter might just have a problem with any book, fiction or otherwise, that implies that her father had genital warts. I don't think it matters if its fiction or not,some people will think it a thinly disguised expose'. (Think of how many people overlooked the 'fiction' label on The DaVinci Code) With the number of libel suits won by celebs against scandal mags, I'd just be willing to bet that protected speech ends where Elvis' name begins. *shrug* Just a thought.

theo

08-10-2007, 07:03 PM

I find it quite exciting that the title alone has stirred so many emotions up in those of you that have visited. Me thinks this can only be a good thing.
As for the genital warts you will be happy to know that it wasn't the king that contracted them. However, they did play a small part in saving his existence from being compromised.
Intrigued, I thank you!

benbradley

08-10-2007, 07:13 PM

Actually, I'm not quite sure about this and you might want to check, but I believe Elvis' name etc. is very strictly controlled by his estate. You might want to check before tangling with the Presley money. They have always been really uptight about how Elvis is represented.
I wonder how Elvis Costello is able to use his name...

Then there's all those impersonators. Hmm, I could look as young as 42, am a little overweight, and would have no problem growing sideburns...

And while I recall the rulings on parody, I wouldn't rely totally on such rulings to make you immune from legal problems. Even if you're in the right, it may cost lawyer money to defend yourself. Many entities like to sue or at least threaten to, even if they're likely to lose, just as a form of harassment and getting 'extra' protection for the name. Monster Cable is famous for this, suing people and companies that use the name Monster in their business names in ways totally unrelated to Monster Cable's business.

NeuroFizz

08-10-2007, 07:18 PM

If Christopher Moore can write a book on The Gospel According to Biff: Christ's Childhood Pal and give a humorous and biting story of Jesus' missing years, I would think an Elvis spoof would be fair game. Also, Dean Koontz has Elvis as a likeable dead character in his Odd Thomas books.

I agree with Kristie, though. If a publisher buys the book, it is their option to change titles.

One question--does the title have something significant to do with the story, or is it just constructed to get that shock value? If the former, run with it until a publisher picks it up. If the latter, reconsider.

maestrowork

08-10-2007, 07:20 PM

I would be willing to bet that Elvis' daughter might just have a problem with any book, fiction or otherwise, that implies that her father had genital warts. I don't think it matters if its fiction or not,some people will think it a thinly disguised expose'. (Think of how many people overlooked the 'fiction' label on The DaVinci Code) With the number of libel suits won by celebs against scandal mags, I'd just be willing to bet that protected speech ends where Elvis' name begins. *shrug* Just a thought.

You can't sue for libel if it's satire or parody. And "Elvis" is a commodity now. You can't sell products using the name "Elvis" so perhaps you do need to cut that out of your title. Otherwise, I believe "Elvis" is fair use.

In the movie Walk the Line, Elvis appears alongside Johnny Cash (played by Joaquin Phoenix). They did need permission and approval because it was supposed to be a biography. But if Elvis appears on Saturday Night Live or an episode of South Park, no permission necessary.

Celia Cyanide

08-10-2007, 07:20 PM

I clicked on this thread because of the subject line. I'd pick up the book in the bookstore, too.

Ditto. I don't even post in this forum very often.

As for Elvis, I think it does make a difference that he is dead. I don't think dead people have the same protection as living people, but I could be wrong.

maestrowork

08-10-2007, 07:22 PM

As for Elvis, I think it does make a difference that he is dead. I don't think dead people have the same protection as living people, but I could be wrong.

They don't, but their estates do.

theo

08-10-2007, 07:41 PM

In answer to neurofizz.
I thought long and hard about the title, coming up with many. The one that hit me in the face was this one.

To me the genital warts gives you an idea as to its satirical content, it also involves fat men in rubber, sheep and lots of alcohol induced frivolity amongst many other things. Wales is the country it is set in and Elvis obviously speaks for itself.
It is my first attempt at writing and the plot came about after a joke at work about Elvis doing a turn after the bingo at my local club. I am very excited about it to say the least and know the hard work is to come.

maestrowork

08-10-2007, 07:44 PM

Even as a satire/parody, I do think that your eventual publisher will opt to drop the word "Elvis" from the title.

Stew21

08-10-2007, 07:46 PM

Couldn't you call it A Blue Suede STD Overseas or something? :D
the title is shocking.

Stew21

08-10-2007, 07:49 PM

Even as a satire/parody, I do think that your eventual publisher will opt to drop the word "Elvis" from the title.

the thing is Elvis is his first name - I believe any estate issues with the title would have to include "Presley".

I use a real and famous (and dead) man's name in my title, too.

maestrowork

08-10-2007, 07:50 PM

But not if the book itself IS about Elvis Presley, though. It could still be a cause for trouble with the estate.

Stew21

08-10-2007, 07:51 PM

I have the ghost of a dead famous writer in my book. Will I have trouble with his estate?

Celia Cyanide

08-10-2007, 07:53 PM

They don't, but their estates do.

Then why did the book about Patty Hearst that came out a year ago change the names off all the living, and none of the dead?

maestrowork

08-10-2007, 07:53 PM

That I don't know, since you're not writing about the real person, but a ghost (or maybe the hero's imaginative writer). In that case, I think you're okay.

mscelina

08-10-2007, 07:55 PM

But not if the book itself IS about Elvis Presley, though. It could still be a cause for trouble with the estate.

that was precisely my thought as well. *shrug* The Presley estate went after vendors of 'unlicensed images of Elvis'in Memphis a few years back. I think they'd be unlikely to ignore a fictional work, satirical or not, which has Elvis as the MC with genital warts. But, what do I know? I'm a schmuck. ;)

maestrowork

08-10-2007, 07:56 PM

Then why did the book about Patty Hearst that came out a year ago change the names off all the living, and none of the dead?

I think biography is different -- if the person is dead, and as long as you're writing the truth, since they're dead no one can dispute the facts... but their estates can still do it if they want -- most don't because, well, they can't prove anything either. Now with people still alive, you have a whole different can of worms with libel, etc. because these people can freely dispute.

Celia Cyanide

08-10-2007, 07:58 PM

I think biography is different

No, it wasn't a biography, it was a novel.

Azraelsbane

08-10-2007, 08:02 PM

In answer to neurofizz.
I thought long and hard about the title, coming up with many. The one that hit me in the face was this one.

It might hit the reader in the face, possibly the wrong way. I'm not totally against using genital warts in the title, but you have to think of it this way, for every person you're intriguing to buy your book, there's another out there that won't touch it because they're too scared to take a book with GENITAL WARTS across the cover to the checkout line.

maestrowork

08-10-2007, 08:02 PM

No, it wasn't a biography, it was a novel.

Then I don't know. I do know that when Amistead Maupin wrote Tales of the City series, he had to block out Rock Hudson's name because he based the story on his relationship with the movie star. Of course, it maybe that back then Hudson was still alive (?)

Still, I think there's a legal issue with using famous dead people in fiction or biography when you don't have the permission to use their image/name, etc. I don't pretend to be a lawyer, but I'd venture a guess that every time you use a famous person, you open yourself up for potential legal issues. I think only satires and parodies can get away with that -- that's why South Park can make fun of anyone they want without getting into trouble (but maybe their lawyers would say otherwise).

OddButInteresting

08-10-2007, 08:05 PM

to put it brief it portrays a farcical story of Elvis faking his death in 1977 and moving to a little village in the valleys of Wales and the subsequent plots to withhold his secret existence and fend off any intruders. It involves sheep, rugby, rubber and mild sex to give an idea.

I think you should be more concerned about how Universal Studios will act if this ever gets published, as it sounds like a straight rip-off of Buba Ho-Tep (minus the mummy, of course). I believe Elvis also had a genital wart or growth of some kind in the film.

If I were you I'd change your protagonist to a fictional retired American (although British would be more fitting, given that he lives in Wales now) rock sensation, and drop the reference to warts.

Andre_Laurent

08-10-2007, 08:12 PM

Okay, I confess...I clicked on this post cuz of the warts thang. :ROFL:

Stew21

08-10-2007, 08:37 PM

regarding the use of Elvis. I found this old post from Jaws,
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=291045&postcount=8

JAWS - if you're here, can you clarify for us?

Sassee

08-10-2007, 08:41 PM

Love the title... made me click on the thread. After reading a summary, I'd buy it.

But I'm weird like that, so... :)

maestrowork

08-10-2007, 08:48 PM

regarding the use of Elvis. I found this old post from Jaws,
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=291045&postcount=8

JAWS - if you're here, can you clarify for us?

Don't you love lawyer's talk?

mscelina

08-10-2007, 09:43 PM

Don't you love lawyer's talk?

LOL--no not really. That's why I tend to avoid it.

jennifer75

08-10-2007, 09:53 PM

jennifer75

08-10-2007, 09:54 PM

Sounds like an Erma Bombeck masterpiece.

Huh?

theo

08-10-2007, 10:17 PM

I didn't know what Buba Ho-tep was I must confess. I had a quick look for it over the ether and the only similarity I can see is the fact Elvis is in it.

As for Erma Brombeck. Who and huh!

I will also say that if anybody was to be embarrassed to take genital warts to the book counter, I'd say the book will not be for you anyway.

mscelina

08-10-2007, 10:29 PM

What I would like to ask is
Do you think I will have trouble at the agent/publishing stage, because my subject is Elvis?Yes. and the genital warts might be a hard sell too.

Will certain "Elvis" people have to give approval?I would think so, unless you want to risk subsequent action from the estate.

Does it really matter?Most definitely.

There. That's about as specific as it gets.

johnzakour

08-11-2007, 12:24 AM

But not if the book itself IS about Elvis Presley, though. It could still be a cause for trouble with the estate.

They control the last name not the first. It's still perfectly acceptable to name somebody Elvis.

My cousin wrote the screenplay "Waiting for Elvis". No problems using the name Elvis.

I've actually used Elvis clones in two of my books with no problems.

The bigger hang up with a potential publisher will be the "warts". It just doesn't invoke pleasant thoughts. Book buyers (for the big chains) tend to be a pretty conservative lot. Plus it makes it sound like a non-fiction book.

Alexandra Little

08-11-2007, 12:49 AM

While I wouldn't pick up the book (Elvis isn't my thing *ducks from Elvis fans*) the title was definitely catchy. Heck, maybe I would pick up the book--I'm interested now :)

OddButInteresting

08-11-2007, 01:10 AM

I didn't know what Buba Ho-tep was I must confess. I had a quick look for it over the ether and the only similarity I can see is the fact Elvis is in it.

And he fakes his death and goes into hiding, AND he has a genital growth ;) .

Actually, tell a lie. In the film Elvis wants to go into hiding, so he swaps places with an Elvis impersonator called Sebastian Haff. But Haff dies in the infamous toilet incident, and the real Elvis is unable to re-emerge because everyone thinks the real Elvis is dead.

But as you say you'd never heard of it before, I'll let this one slide.

maestrowork

08-11-2007, 02:34 AM

They control the last name not the first. It's still perfectly acceptable to name somebody Elvis.

It's also perfectly fine to have the last name Presley. Jason Presley, for example.

The issue here, is that the book IS about Elvis Presley, so the title is a direct reference to that Elvis. Thus I think it will be a problem with the title.

johnzakour

08-11-2007, 05:46 PM

BTW, you may want to search amazon to see if any other novels mention genital warts in their title. After doing a quick search (out of morbid curiosity) I couldn't find any though there are many nonfiction books on the subject.

Usually with titles you want to be creative but not too creative. It's a fine line. You want to catch the readers eye and then entice them to spend their $7.99. My guess is Genital Warts may catch the eye, but not in a way that makes most people say, "hey I want to spend my money on that!"

JimmyB27

08-11-2007, 06:50 PM

If Robert Rankin (http://www.sproutlore.com/reviews/reviews.php?review=13) can write a book which stars Elvis travelling through space and time guided by a brussel sprout named Barry, I reckon you can get away with this.

Oh, and I for one love the title :)

Button

08-11-2007, 08:49 PM

Haha! I love the title. I just thought up another one while reading the thread: Death, Sex and Blue Suede Shoes. :)

Seriously, I'd ask the author of previous Elvis titles, or ask an agent his opinion on it, maybe someone who sold Elvis titles in the past. They'd probably know what's okay or not, so you'd be able to get it right.

Will Lavender

08-11-2007, 09:26 PM

I think the title's bloody awful.

Like the idea, though. If a guy can write a thriller called The X President about Bill Clinton time traveling, then you could pull this off. But change that ridiculous title. Please. Before your publisher has to.

Old Hack

08-11-2007, 09:37 PM

Have a quick search on Amazon for a book called "Aberystwyth, Mon Amour", I think--the first in a series of books which are pastiches of the old 1940s detective novels, set in Aberystwyth. I've read a couple (I know Aberystwyth rather well) and loved them--and I'm sure that Elvis turns up in one or two. Might be worth checking out, just to make sure you don't write something too similar.

Oberon

08-11-2007, 11:17 PM

johnzakour

08-12-2007, 02:40 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that if the book gets published with that title and a lawsuit is brought, the publicity could put you on the best seller list, and the lawsuit would eventually die.

If it was so easy to get on the best seller list many people would be purposely using titles that they know would get them sued.

JoniBGoode

08-12-2007, 09:41 PM

In answer to neurofizz.
I thought long and hard about the title, coming up with many. The one that hit me in the face was this one.

I think this is a brilliant working title. I probably never would have opened a thread on STD or Elvis alone, but the combination is fascinating.

Bottom line, the editor will pick the title when your book is published, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

johnzakour

08-12-2007, 10:04 PM

I think this is a brilliant working title. I probably never would have opened a thread on STD or Elvis alone, but the combination is fascinating.

Bottom line, the editor will pick the title when your book is published, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Opening a thread is far different than plopping down $7.99 to buy a book.

I've never had an editor pick a title for me. They have on occasion said, "no we don't like that title."

javili

08-13-2007, 07:14 AM

If this spawns hundreds of genital wart impersonators, it's on YOUR head.

wayndom

08-13-2007, 08:13 AM

Then why did the book about Patty Hearst that came out a year ago change the names off all the living, and none of the dead?

I'm not aware of the book you're referring to, but I'd bet money it wasn't presented as fiction.

And a satire of any "public figure" is entirely protected free speech. In the early eighties, Larry Flint published a cartoon showing Jerry Falwell *having sex* with his mother. Falwell sued, but the Supreme Court threw it out, since Falwell is a public figure, and is therefore fair game for any kind of satire.

I can't imagine that Elvis' estate approved his appearance in True Romance...

Princesstilly

08-14-2007, 07:00 AM

Dean Koontz uses Elvis' ghost as a character in his Odd Thomas series. I don't think it would be a problem here.

theo

08-21-2007, 12:54 AM

The debate that eminated out of this thread took me rather by surprise and I thank you all for your pennies worth. I have given thought to comments made and now concede to a slight change of title in compromise to opinion, be it right or wrong to do so.
I will eventually present it as "Warts, Wales and Elvis" dropping the genitals so as to speak.