Step away from the thesaurus!!!

[Niteowl]

Found this on my quotes RSS feed:


Any word you have to hunt for in a thesaurus is the wrong word. There are no exceptions to this rule.
- Stephen King (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/39167.html)


DISCUSS!!

[Tasmin21]

I think it depends on how many people have to hunt for it. I had a beta reader circle the word "askance" because she'd never seen it before, and yet it never occurred to me that it was unusual.

[Deirdre]

I have a large vocabulary, large enough that one of my former beaus was spotted carrying a dictionary so he could look stuff up. (Awww.)

I will look in a dictionary to double-check meaning, but I won't look in a thesaurus. I don't believe I own one. They usually lead me in false directions, and I waste a lot of time.

[TheIT]

Depends on why you reached for the thesaurus in the first place.

Sometimes I know that I know the right word, it's on the tip of my tongue, but I can't think of it so I'll use the thesaurus to remind myself of what I already know. If you're reaching for the thesaurus just to put a ten-dollar word down on paper, then I agree, that's the wrong reason. Odds are if you found the word for the first time in the thesaurus, you're going to use it incorrectly because you don't understand all the nuances.

[Rolling Thunder]

Never use a twenty-dollar word when a ten-center will do. Um...how does Barney feel about King's statement? (My words are more expensive that IT's.) :D

[kristie911]

Sometimes I know that I know the right word, it's on the tip of my tongue, but I can't think of it so I'll use the thesaurus to remind myself of what I already know.

This is the only reason I ever use a thesaurus. Well, and I suppose sometimes I'll use it to avoid using the same word twice in a paragraph. But usually I already have a word in mind and just can't think of what it should be.

[OctoberRain]

I'll use the thesaurus function in MS Word from time to time, but only to check if there's another word that works better. It's useful about half the time. I suspect my vocabulary's pretty small, though, in comparison to other writers.

[reigningcatsndogs]

Depends on why you reached for the thesaurus in the first place.

Sometimes I know that I know the right word, it's on the tip of my tongue, but I can't think of it so I'll use the thesaurus to remind myself of what I already know. If you're reaching for the thesaurus just to put a ten-dollar word down on paper, then I agree, that's the wrong reason. Odds are if you found the word for the first time in the thesaurus, you're going to use it incorrectly because you don't understand all the nuances.
Ditto -- it's cause the word is sitting there and the grey matter just can't locate it in the mental card catelogue, It's just for the nudge (cause some of us have more grey matter than others!!)

[PeeDee]

The first word you reach for will be your most honest, the one you meant the best. Stephen King's right.

I own several dictionaries which I use in everyday life, and which are across the house from where I write. I don't use them. I don't even know where my thesaurus is. I don't need of it.

Something else Stephen King said, "As the hooker said to the bashful sailor, 'honey it ain't size that counts, but how you use it." And here he was referring to being embarassed by your vocabulary, because it's not as big as H.P. Lovecraft's was naturally. So what? Use what you have. What you have will build naturally over time. Use what you gain, too.

[Azraelsbane]

He probably brings this up because lots of people think they can expand their vocabulary with a thesaurus. This is not the case, and people who are using a thesaurus specifically for that purpose (and not as a tool to be used when the mind goes *fizzle plop*) pick the wrong word like 90% of the time, and it makes no sense. Or, they pick a nice big word that actually does manage to make sense, but doesn't flow with the rest of the 3rd grade vocabulary in the text.

Ex: Author original: "Jane runs down the street. Spot runs down the street. Spot finds a lot of bones on the street."
Thesaurus version: "Jane runs down the street. Spot runs down the street. Spot finds a plethora of bones on the street."

[Maryn]

I use Word's thesaurus or online ones for the word my brain can't locate. However, I do make use of my big honkin' thesaurus when I am trying hard not to repeat the same few words too near each other. It's not that I seek a big fancy word, but other words with faintly different nuances in their meanings--something for which paperbound, Word's, and online thesauruses are worthless.

Only today I didn't want to use "love life" and "sex life" in the same section. The big Roget's helped me out--and gave my arm a wee workout, too!

Maryn, fan of the right thesaurus (nice biceps, huh?)

[PeeDee]

Only today I didn't want to use "love life" and "sex life" in the same section. The big Roget's helped me out--and gave my arm a wee workout, too!


....I need to get a different thesaurus, apparently. Whoa!

[Rolling Thunder]

I use Word's thesaurus or online ones for the word my brain can't locate. However, I do make use of my big honkin' thesaurus when I am trying hard not to repeat the same few words too near each other. It's not that I seek a big fancy word, but other words with faintly different nuances in their meanings--something for which paperbound, Word's, and online thesauruses are worthless.

Only today I didn't want to use "love life" and "sex life" in the same section. The big Roget's helped me out--and gave my arm a wee workout, too!

Maryn, fan of the right thesaurus (nice biceps, huh?)

What about that poor left thesaurus? It seems sad and lonely. Much like Pete did in high school.

[PeeDee]

No, that was you. Stop projecting. *I* was inundated with girls. Duh.

[Rolling Thunder]

No, that was you. Stop projecting. *I* was inundated with girls. Duh.

Check your thesaurus, Pete. I think the words you wanted were 'ignored by'. :tongue

[PeeDee]

I found a bunch of synonyms for "Rllgthunder," but they were all in the Roget Complete List of Diseases.

[PeeDee]

And most of them were itchy.

[Rolling Thunder]

Back OT: I use the thesaurus in the same way, Maryn. In that instance, it only makes good sense.

[MelodyO]

I love thesaurus.com dearly, and Stephen King can go bound leap jump in a lake. Having said that, I don't use it to look for words I've never heard of -- I look for words that fit better than the one I've typed.

I'll never believe that "walk" is a better word than "meander" just because it has less syllables. And your little dog, too!!

[JoNightshade]

I saw that King quote today as well, and I am with those who have to respectfully disagree. I use a thesaurus all the time when I can't quite remember that word I wanted to use. WHAT was it again?

Similarly, I use it when I need one word with a double connotation. IE, I don't want say, "John was greedy and saved all of his money." I would say "John was miserly." I KNOW the word miserly, but I can't always get my brain to regurgitate it when I need it.

[Rolling Thunder]

I love thesaurus.com dearly, and Stephen King can go bound leap jump in a lake. Having said that, I don't use it to look for words I've never heard of -- I look for words that fit better than the one I've typed.

I'll never believe that "walk" is a better word than "meander" just because it has less syllables. And your little dog, too!!

But, walk and meander imply two different types of motion. Unless you modify walk with an adverb, meander could be the word you want if your character is not moving in a willful, distinct manner.

[lfraser]

[quote=JoNightshade;1612420 Similarly, I use it when I need one word with a double connotation. IE, I don't want say, "John was greedy and saved all of his money." I would say "John was miserly." I KNOW the word miserly, but I can't always get my brain to regurgitate it when I need it.[/quote]

Well, I'm not really one to argue with a writer of King's stature, but I have to admit that there are a whole lot of words that I haven't used for a long time rattling around in the dustier corners of my head and sometimes they need a little coaxing before they'll come out...

[PeeDee]

RT's right, they're different.

And the whole point was that if you look for a word that "fits better," then the word you use is less honest than the word that originally came to mind. It's not always about augmenting your sentences. It's about honesty. So much depends on that in particular. That's what Stephen King was getting at.

[Rolling Thunder]

RT's right

Just hanging this here. Because. :)

I've had to use certain words in lieu of walk in one of my novels, for a specific reason. For the characters 'walk' doesn't work for them. But, it has been limiting in what action I can use. So, I go to the thesaurus for a better word, just to keep from repeating the action constantly.

[PeeDee]

(I knew I'd regret it. I just knew it.)

[TheIT]

I agree with the quote to some extent. Sometimes second-guessing a word and replacing it with another might weaken the punch. It's similar to the suggestion of going with your first guess when picking a random answer on a multiple choice test. Odds are, your first answer is the right one. But that's statistics. It won't always be the correct answer.

I'm also reminded of one of the lines from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy about the Nutrimatic machine dispensing a cup full of liquid which was "almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea." Sometimes as I'm writing, the first word which comes to mind is the "almost right" word, and I have to circle around a bit to nudge my brain into coming up with the right word.

Rather than automatically reaching for a thesaurus while writing, I'll put the problem word in angle brackets and include alternates, then keep going. If I'm composing, I don't want to run into the brick wall of figuring out the perfect word for this particular sentence but derailing my entire train of thought. Later, during revision, I can weigh the choices.

[PeeDee]

Rather than automatically reaching for a thesaurus while writing, I'll put the problem word in angle brackets and include alternates, then keep going. If I'm composing, I don't want to run into the brick wall of figuring out the perfect word for this particular sentence but derailing my entire train of thought. Later, during revision, I can weigh the choices.

I wouldn't do that, but as a method goes, I really like that way of thinking about alternate words. That's a great system, and it even continues your forward motion.

[JeanneTGC]

Honesty's great.

Enjoyable reading's better. I'm with those who want to find a similar word, perhaps the word that would allow me to cut out many other words and use just the one (The Three Amigos "infamous" scene, as an example).

Sometimes it will pay off to use all the tools available to you. Sometimes it's better to go from the gut.

Use of the thesaurus, like the use of adverbs or whatever else we're not supposed to like this month, should be done with the same thought as anything else in the creative process. And, like every other aspect of the creative process, what works for one may not work for all.

*strokes her nice, big thesaurus* There, there...mummy's not going to ignore you just because the mean man in stretchy pants said to...

[PeeDee]

Me and Stephen King will just keep writing from the gut, while you lot write cold and merciless mechanical fiction. Nyah! *bursts into tears*

[Rolling Thunder]

Me and Stephen King will just keep writing from the gut, while you lot write cold and merciless mechanical fiction. Nyah! *bursts into tears*

There, there, Pete. Someday you'll have guts.

[PeeDee]

I'll have yours for garters, boy!

(for someone else to wear)

[JeanneTGC]

Me and Stephen King will just keep writing from the gut, while you lot write cold and merciless mechanical fiction. Nyah! *bursts into tears*
*sigh* There, there. We all like your gut. Even my thesaurus likes your gut.

Now, be a big boy and admit that some of us can write how we like and others can write how they like, and we can all get along on the bookshelves together.

BTW, my Chambers Dictonary says that if you ever diss his girl, the Oxford American Thesaurus, again he's gonna put a whomping on your head.

[TheIT]

I wouldn't do that, but as a method goes, I really like that way of thinking about alternate words. That's a great system, and it even continues your forward motion.

Thanks, PeeDee. The angle bracket trick serves a couple of purposes. When I reread what I wrote, I can remember where I had questions. Angle brackets don't appear in English so I can easily search for them. And most important, when I'm writing first draft, it's a cue to my internal editor to shut up. By acknowledging on the page that yes, this <word/concept/image/phrase/what have you> has some uncertainty about it, my internal editor is temporarily appeased because I know that I'll give it more thought in future. A lot of times I'll go with my initial thought, but only after I've considered the alternatives.

[Rolling Thunder]

Is there a setting in your word processor that tags that for recall? Or do you have to remember to go back and look for it?

[PeeDee]

*sigh* There, there. We all like your gut. Even my thesaurus likes your gut.

1)Now, be a big boy and admit that some of us can write how we like and others can write how they like, and we can all get along on the bookshelves together.

2)BTW, my Chambers Dictonary says that if you ever diss his girl, the Oxford American Thesaurus, again he's gonna put a whomping on your head.

1) Everyone can happily write however they best need to. I'm all in favor of that. It interests and baffles me how other people write. Anyway, who cares if *I* agree or approve of how someone writes? I'm neither God, nor am I offering a publishing contract, sooo.... :)

2) Chambers can bring it. I will totally bring out Strunk & White's The Elements of Style. It's small, but ninja-fast!

[Rolling Thunder]

Yeah, I rely heavily on Elements of Style as well. Great resource there. (Ignore the adverb.)

[PeeDee]

The Elements of Style and Bradbury's Zen in the Art of Writing. I re-read 'em every six or eight months or so and am a happier person afterward. I randomly open Stephen King's On Writing and read random chunks when I have a few moments, now and then.

[TheIT]

Is there a setting in your word processor that tags that for recall? Or do you have to remember to go back and look for it?

I assume this question is for me?

The setting's in my memory, not the computer's memory. I'm writing this draft by hand. What finding an angle bracket tells me is that I had a question about the enclosed while I was writing, but I don't always remember the question when rereading. That's all right. If I can't remember why I flagged something, it probably means subconsciously I answered the question or the flag was just to beat back the internal editor so I could keep going.

I'm writing fantasy, and I'll also flag cliches or anachronisms for later eradication.

[maestrowork]

I try to use words I already know but like many others, I use the thesaurus to locate the "tip of the tongue" words. But I don't pick words I don't know already and no "ooh, I don't know this word but it sounds fancy and sophisticated."

[PeeDee]

You write by hand?

Like...like....on a tablet PC, or what?

*applauds someone else who writes by hand*

:)

[Rolling Thunder]

Hmmm...I can't write 'by hand'. It's just too confining for me. If I misspell a word or whack out some bad grammar it drives me crazy; just too distracting.

[TheIT]

By hand, with fountain pen on real paper. It's something I'm trying for this first draft after reading about JAR's technique and experimenting on my own. I've always liked composing with pen and paper, but I used to write for a while in my notebook, then stop whenever I got stuck and type it all in, then lather, rinse, repeat. What I found was that I kept losing forward momentum in the story as a whole.

This time, I'm writing the whole first draft by hand. Typing it in will become my first revision, and because I'm not allowing myself to go back and fiddle, the words won't already be set in stone. I'm going to have so much pent-up energy from wanting to revise the beginning that typing's going to be a breeze. Either that, or I'll explode. :D

ETA: I'm also scanning the pages into my computer as JPEG images for safety's sake. And RllngThunder, the number of crossouts would probably drive you nuts. :D

[maestrowork]

If I write by hand I'll never finish anything. I type 100 times faster than I write -- and the only way I can keep up with my thoughts.

[JeanneTGC]

If I write by hand I'll never finish anything. I type 100 times faster than I write -- and the only way I can keep up with my thoughts.
What Maestrowork said, in spades, for me.

Besides, I'm not gonna do what PeeDee does, no way! :D

[TheIT]

There's something to be said for slowing down. The more I think about a scene now, the less I'll hopefully have to revise it in future.

[dclary]

He probably brings this up because lots of people think they can expand their vocabulary with a thesaurus. This is not the case, and people who are using a thesaurus specifically for that purpose (and not as a tool to be used when the mind goes *fizzle plop*) pick the wrong word like 90% of the time, and it makes no sense. Or, they pick a nice big word that actually does manage to make sense, but doesn't flow with the rest of the 3rd grade vocabulary in the text.

Ex: Author original: "Jane runs down the street. Spot runs down the street. Spot finds a lot of bones on the street."
Thesaurus version: "Jane runs down the street. Spot runs down the street. Spot finds a plethora of bones on the street."

"Jeffe, would you say I have a plethora of pinatas?"
"Oh yes, El Guapo. You definitely have a plethora of pinatas."
"Do you even know what a plethora is, Jeffe?"
"No, El Guapo."

[JeanneTGC]

"Jeffe, would you say I have a plethora of pinatas?"
"Oh yes, El Guapo. You definitely have a plethora of pinatas."
"Do you even know what a plethora is, Jeffe?"
"No, El Guapo."
DEKE RULES!!!

[MelodyO]

Trust me, my second draft is going to be way more honest (and by "honest" I mean "crap-free") than my first draft, where I often use the first word that limps into my head. Sure, walk and meander are different -- but if "walk" is the word that pops into my head (or gut) first, I'm still going to kick its ass right outta there no matter how honest it makes me. Honestly sucks, maybe.

I write by hand when the plot is stuck and I need to think my way out, and when I'm in the tub. Laptops and tubs are unmixy things.

[melaniehoo]

I'm on the side of using the thesaurus for brain farts (cerebral toots) and when I repeat the same word in a paragraph. If I'm even 5% uncertain the meaning is right, I'll also look up the definition. If I can't find the right word, I use the [bracket] method.

When I worked at an ad agency we'd spend HOURS with the thesauraus. I mean, seriously, how many different ways can you say Sale?

[Alphabetix]

I threw my thesaurus out, in favor of a Rodale Synonym finder!

Editing and Writing Services (http://www.alphabetix.net)

[scully931]

Seriously, I can't remember when I've disagreed with a quote more. It actually surprises me that it came from Stephen King, who seems quite down to earth. Then again, he *loved* the epilogue in Harry Potter.

[JeanneTGC]

When I worked at an ad agency we'd spend HOURS with the thesauraus. I mean, seriously, how many different ways can you say Sale?
At least a hundred if I can use more than one word.

:D

20+ years in marketing give you the edge in BS.

[melaniehoo]

At least a hundred if I can use more than one word.

:D

20+ years in marketing give you the edge in BS.

Show me. I double-dog dare you!

I'm going to bed now so you have some time to think about it. :)

EDIT: I should mention this was automotive advertising.

[JeanneTGC]

Show me. I double-dog dare you!

I'm going to bed now so you have some time to think about it. :)

EDIT: I should mention this was automotive advertising.
As with so many other things I do, I charge for those services. :D

[melaniehoo]

As with so many other things I do, I charge for those services. :D

Fair enough. As that was my last job & I left it 6 months ago, I will pass on anything requiring extra fees. Enjoy them now that they are in your head.

[Niteowl]

I think this might go a long way to 'finding one's voice', as it were. Sure, there is the whole 'tip of the tongue' thing. But then, one might argue that you aren't writing honestly, which is one of the many Cardinal Rules that seem to be out in the Writing Ether. On the other hand, almost every successful writer EDITS, and what's that if not changing what you initially said?

Things that make you go hm (oh yes, I put that 90's hip-hop song in your head, suffer! :P).

I don't think I've ever used a thesaurus for my writing.

But then again, I have used a dictionary. Have any of you ever had a word pop into your head, and you have NO idea what it means? I have words pop into my head, and I've heard of them, but Odin help me if I can figure out what it means (e.g. a word going through my head right now is "inchoate". Hmm, looking it up on google (define:inchoate), it seems inchoate pretty much describes my thought processes).

[limitedtimeauthor]

Similarly, I use it when I need one word with a double connotation. IE, I don't want say, "John was greedy and saved all of his money." I would say "John was miserly." I KNOW the word miserly, but I can't always get my brain to regurgitate it when I need it.

Yes, but this is the exact instance when the thesaurus doesn't help! :e2thud: Which word do you look up? (In this instance, "greedy" might set you on the trail to "miserly," but it isn't strictly a synonym.

I even started a thread for this around here somewhere (in the grammar forum, I think).

In my dreams it works like this:

YOU: I can't think of the word that means "really excited, but in a looking-forward to it kind of way..."
A SMART PERSON: You mean "eager?"
YOU: That's it! Thank you so much!

But in real life it didn't work that way at all. Nobody else had any word requests. So for like, a long time - until just now, in fact - I thought I was the only one with cerebral toots, as someone said so ...er... (what's that word that means you just described it exactly, and hit the nail on the head?)...

There's nothing wrong with a little thesaurus-viewing now and then. It's a natural and beautiful act in the proper situations. But you must never use it with strange words! :D

Seriously, it can help you avoid lazy writing and cliche'd expressions.

But it must be used wisely and properly.

ltd.

[JeanneTGC]

There's nothing wrong with a little thesaurus-viewing now and then. It's a natural and beautiful act in the proper situations. But you must never use it with strange words! :D

Seriously, it can help you avoid lazy writing and cliche'd expressions.

But it must be used wisely and properly.

ltd.
Message from the Coalition to Prevent Improper Word and Reference Usage. This is your brain. http://www.freesmileys.org/sigs/sigs-animal-009.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/)This is your brain on words. http://www.freesmileys.org/sigs/sigs-animal-058.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/)Any questions?

[limitedtimeauthor]

:roll:

[gp101]

I would frizzle up without my beloved thesaurus option in MS, or dictionary/thesaurus dot com (s). Can't tell you how many times in proofreading I've caught myself using the same (significant) word in a paragraph or page. Obviously I don't mean "said" or "the" or "a" or the like. Could be a simple verb like "motioned". My mind freaks out when I can't come up with the simple alternative (whether it's just one word or a phrase) because of brain fart syndrome, of which I am a manic sufferer. A thesaurus usually points out the exact word I had in mind, nothing necessarilly fancy, just something appropriate, usually simple, and an alternative to the word I already used.

I love King. But I so disagree with his shunning of the thesaurus. I'll have to really ream him when we hang later this weekend. Maine is beautiful this time of year. Stevie's gonna hear it.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Any word you have to hunt for in a thesaurus is the wrong word. There are no exceptions to this rule.
- Stephen King (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/39167.html)

I admire Stephen King for his proliphic (spelling?) writing output, but in this case he's just dead wrong. There are many times where I can't recall what the right word is and I'll use the Thesaurus to REMIND me of what the word is I'm thinking of.

I will agree that you should never use a word you have no idea what the meaning or context of is. In other words, you shouldn't randomly choose a word because it sounds good and happens to be in the same category as the word you really want.

[Shane Fitzsimmons]

It's good advice, but like anything it can be taken a bit too extreme.

Obviously if you know the word already, but you're having a brain fart, it's acceptable to look it up. I don't think that's what King was talking about though.

But I'd say that, in general, if you're looking in the thesaurus for a "better" word, it's the wrong word.

I hate it when people try to sound like they have a bigger vocabulary than they actually do. A big vocabulary really isn't as necessary as people think it is to being a good writer. It's like saying needing the best brushes and paints is required for being a good painter, or having an expensive camera is required to be a good photographer. It's pure BS, usually made up by people who aren't good at what they do and need to make excuses for themselves, or for people who think that money can buy talent.

[scarletpeaches]

I agree with King (first time for everything, heh heh) and can't think of any circumstances under which I would use a thesaurus. I don't own one and I never use the one on MS Word. If you can't think of a word that's on the tip of your tongue, use a simpler one that's more easily remembered. Make a note in the margin. Change it on the edits. If you don't remember to change it on the edits, was the 'better' word even necessary? Your own brain is the best thesaurus there is. Use words that occur naturally in your own vocabulary and if you've all but forgotten a word that you really, really know - do you know it? Truly?

[FennelGiraffe]

Like every other tool, a thesaurus can be used appropriately or inappropriately. It's great for reminding you of words you know but just can't think of at the moment.

I agree, though, a thesaurus can be badly mis-used when someone thinks everyday words aren't good enough. I suppose that's what King was talking about.

[BenPanced]

There are times when writing certain scenes (*koff*sexscene*koff*), I need to use a thesaurus. Years ago, a guy who was my Horrible Editor Beast at the time pointed out I overuse the word "gently", the word appearing three, four, or even six times on a page. He told me "drop it or find a thesaurus". I also use it when I'm vascillating/wavering/undecided between two words and I need to find the correct one that a character would use.

[Ava Jarvis]

"An author should use the right word, but not its second cousin." -- Mark Twain

"The difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter--it's the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning." -- Mark Twain

I prefer Mr. Twain. He doesn't go to needless extremes on this kind of issue. He hits the middle---use the right word. So don't use a word you found in the thesaurus just because, only use it if it actually means what you're trying to say. And don't resist using the thesaurus just because, especially if the word you have is "close" but not close enough to what you're trying to say.

In all things, moderation.

[Ava Jarvis]

Oh... and the ever popular "Eschew surplusage", which is what I think King was trying to say.

[Kentuk]

I love thesaurus.com dearly, and Stephen King can go bound leap jump in a lake. Having said that, I don't use it to look for words I've never heard of -- I look for words that fit better than the one I've typed.

I'll never believe that "walk" is a better word than "meander" just because it has less syllables. And your little dog, too!!

You don't meander a dog. You either know where you're going or the dog does, no meandering involved.

[Niteowl]

You don't meander a dog. You either know where you're going or the dog does, no meandering involved.
Unless you are writing an epic novel about an aging knight and his senile Labrador. That's all sorts of meandering. But wait, you'd still be walking the dog, in a meandering fashion. Or would you be walking meanderingly (what awkward adverb?)?

[ClaudiaGray]

I think you can use a thesaurus to strengthen/supplement/refresh your vocabulary. What you can't do is use a thesaurus as a substitute for a vocabulary.

Looking up longer/unusual/different words you're fairly unfamiliar with to take the place of perfectly good ones you already know and use is an error. Taking a glance through to remind yourself of slightly more unusual words you do know but that hadn't sprung to mind can work very well. If you know the words, you know if they're the right tone, etc. If you don't, steer clear.

[J. R. Tomlin]

I love thesaurus.com dearly, and Stephen King can go bound leap jump in a lake. Having said that, I don't use it to look for words I've never heard of -- I look for words that fit better than the one I've typed.

I'll never believe that "walk" is a better word than "meander" just because it has less syllables. And your little dog, too!!
I agree. And I frequently disagree with Mr. King. He has sold many, many books which doesn't necessarily translate into always having good advise for other writers.

[jennifer75]

I use Word's thesaurus or online ones for the word my brain can't locate. However, I do make use of my big honkin' thesaurus when I am trying hard not to repeat the same few words too near each other. It's not that I seek a big fancy word, but other words with faintly different nuances in their meanings--something for which paperbound, Word's, and online thesauruses are worthless.



Maryn, fan of the right thesaurus (nice biceps, huh?)

Me too. I love dictionary.com's thesaurus. I use it alot, just so I wont sound like I have a ten year old's vocabulary. Because I do have a ten year old's vocabulary.

[melaniehoo]

Me too. I love dictionary.com's thesaurus.

When I write I have 2 windows open online - thesaurus.com & dictionary.com. I know I could flip back and forth but I like all the info right there.

(really I have 3 - AW. Can't...see...to...close...window)

[Nyna]

I love my thesaurus! I don't think I've ever actually used it while writing, but I flip through it all the time. Words! Lists of words that mean almost-but-not-quite the same thing! I mean, what could be more fun? More agreeable, amusing, clear sailing, delectable, genial, gratifying, groovy, just for grins, just for kicks, pleasant, pleasurable, relishable satisfying, and welcome? (See? My thesaurus totally spiced up that sentence.)

Mostly, I go with the first word that comes into my head, and if it's something that I'm pretty sure fits the context but couldn't define to save my life, I look it up in my awesome Oxford English Dictionary. (Does this ever happen to anyone else?)

The reason that I am a better writer than I am a conversationalist is that I don't have to go with the first word that comes into my head and then goes out my mouth -- I can pick and choose and change things! Maybe it's less honest, but it makes me sound smarter. I consider that a fair trade.

[limitedtimeauthor]

I agree with King (first time for everything, heh heh) and can't think of any circumstances under which I would use a thesaurus. I don't own one and I never use the one on MS Word. If you can't think of a word that's on the tip of your tongue, use a simpler one that's more easily remembered. Make a note in the margin. Change it on the edits. If you don't remember to change it on the edits, was the 'better' word even necessary? Your own brain is the best thesaurus there is. Use words that occur naturally in your own vocabulary and if you've all but forgotten a word that you really, really know - do you know it? Truly?
:D You just haven't aged enough to appreciate the beauty of a book that gets things off the tip of your tongue and out of the back of your brain. It's like one of those mechanical "grabbers" for seniors that they sell on t.v.

ltd.

[MelodyO]

This has been such an interesting thread! Now that I look back at the other comments, I have to admit I had no idea some writers were tempted to use a thesaurus to make their writing sound smarter. I don't have a crazy-big vocabulary, but my husband does look at me funny sometimes when I know the meaning of a word he's read or heard. When I used the word "hie" in my first novel, my sister thought I'd made it up. Heh.

In that case, I agree that a thesaurus can be a dangerous weapon.

[Jamesaritchie]

King is right. If you have word on the tip of your tongue, but can't recall what word it is, then it's probably the wrong word.

Thesaurus users are very easy to spot in the slush piles, and even easier to reject.

[The Lady]

My take on this. Write as many books as King. Promote your own theory on thesaurus use.
I sure hope he never takes against spell checkers.

[limitedtimeauthor]

King is right. If you have word on the tip of your tongue, but can't recall what word it is, then it's probably the wrong word.

Thesaurus users are very easy to spot in the slush piles, and even easier to reject.Ha! That's hilarious/very funny/sidesplitting/amusing/comical/uproarious/riotous and mirthful!

James, how could you possibly spot responsible thesaurus use in a slush pile?

You have no idea how many of the submissions you've ever slushed through contained words culled from a thesaurus. What you have no doubt seen (and remembered) were submissions written by those feckless souls who lack confidence in their own skill.

Now, tell me...Which word in this post did I find by looking in the thesaurus? (Hint: It wasn't feckless. That one was right there for me. :D)

It's a quiz!

ltd.

[Danger Jane]

I use the MS Word thesaurus...sometimes the tip of your tongue word isn't the one that's REALLY on the tip of your tongue. I'm not about to replace every word (or any) with a twenty syllable latin derivative. That doesn't render a thesaurus useless.

[lkp]

King used to teach English (and I bet he did a fine job at it too). I'm sure he is well aware that one thing many English teachers do, is encourage students to use a thesaurus to fine ten and fifteen dollar words to replace their nice, functional, precise five dollar words, in order to expand their vocabularies. While it is a good vocabulary-expanding exercise, it is lousy writing practice, and I'm guessing he's just reacting to that.

I use the thesaurus that comes with my software all the time. Last time I used it, I remember I was looking for synonyms for "sense" or "notion" because I had already used those two. I came up with "feeling," which was perfect in context. And was hardly obscure. I doubt anyone will look at that paragraph and think "Aha --- thesaurus!"

[JeanneTGC]

Ha! That's hilarious/very funny/sidesplitting/amusing/comical/uproarious/riotous and mirthful!

James, how could you possibly spot responsible thesaurus use in a slush pile?

You have no idea how many of the submissions you've ever slushed through contained words culled from a thesaurus. What you have no doubt seen (and remembered) were submissions written by those feckless souls who lack confidence in their own skill.

Now, tell me...Which word in this post did I find by looking in the thesaurus? (Hint: It wasn't feckless. That one was right there for me. :D)

It's a quiz!

ltd.
Slush pile?

:D

[limitedtimeauthor]

LOL, no.

But I suppose I could have said "mire mountain" or "sludge swell."

ltd.

[Kentuk]

culled

[limitedtimeauthor]

No! :)

But that's a good guess. The obvious guess (outside of feckless!). But no. culled was right there.

No one is ever going to guess it. That was my point. That sometimes you see a poorly-worded query or manuscript and the thesaurus words scream at you. ("Put me out of my misery! Please!") Other times, responsible writers (ahem, like me) use the thesaurus because they know the better word, it's just slightly out of reach.

Which is what most of the writers here have been saying. Just use it when you need to, as a tool; not to fancy up a bit of writing.

ltd.

[JeanneTGC]

Responsible?

[Mustang]

some people can make "the" a positively orgasmic word. No need to find a bigger fancier word if you're that skilled.

If I can't recall a word I want to use I'll use a thesaurus. Otherwise I trust my instincts and just write whatever word I naturally thought of.

But then, I'm not yet a published novelist, so what do I know?

[Chameleon]

I have a thesaurus and a dictionary (two if you count Black's Law Dictionary) on my table. When I feel like I'm using a word redundantly, I use the thesaurus to find a word that is a better fit.

Besides, I'm not a big fan of Stephen King. So.....

[lkp]

souls?

[RLSMiller]

My money's on uproarious.

[Julie Worth]

King used to teach English (and I bet he did a fine job at it too). I'm sure he is well aware that one thing many English teachers do, is encourage students to use a thesaurus to fine ten and fifteen dollar words to replace their nice, functional, precise five dollar words, in order to expand their vocabularies. While it is a good vocabulary-expanding exercise, it is lousy writing practice, and I'm guessing he's just reacting to that.


In school I buried myself in a thesaurus and my writing became incomprehensible, yet of boundless interest to my teachers. Now I never use it and my true nature is revealed: that I’m an idiot.

[benbradley]

I try to use words I already know but like many others, I use the thesaurus to locate the "tip of the tongue" words. But I don't pick words I don't know already and no "ooh, I don't know this word but it sounds fancy and sophisticated."
Like others have posted, I've hit the thesaurus to find a word I already know but can't quite remember.

If I'm tempted to use a word I've not seen before, I look it up in (of all things!) a dictionary and see what it means first. Then I probably won't use it. But my most common use of a dictionary is for words I 'sort of' know, but want to be sure I'm using correctly in the context. I have the Merriam Webster (http://m-w.com) lookup installed in my Firefox browser so I'm a click away from the dictionary definition of any word, and I use it a lot. I've used that site a good bit for the past eight or ten years.

When it comes to using fancy words, you don't have to be obsequious (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=obsequious) about it.

[NeuroFizz]

And the whole point was that if you look for a word that "fits better," then the word you use is less honest than the word that originally came to mind.
Sorry, PeeDee, but I can't accept this as a blanket statement. As a "sometimes" or even a "frequently" type statement, yes. If this is so, then by extension, a first draft of a story will be much more "honest" than a second or third draft. And if you agree with that statement, then "greatest honesty " may be at serious odds with quality writing.

My opinion of the King quote is the idea that writers should not choose their words to try to wow the reader with the self-annointed "quality" of the prose. A thesaurus is a powerful tool for a writer. Some writers have such good vocabularies, and memories, that they have a wonderful "internal" thesaurus. For the rest of us finding the right word can be aided by a book-type thesaurus, as long as finding the right word does not mean finding the most pretentious or obscure word. Also, an important part of writing prose is to use "poetic" devices, metaphor in particular. In developing a metaphor, which can carry throughout a story, a thesaurus and all kinds of other research tools, can be extremely useful.

If the right word is not one the average tenth grade reader will know, the writer can still relax--most experienced readers can use a wonderful tool of our human brains to understand the word, known as context clues. If a word is so unusual, and the writing around it so obscure that a conscious adult can't even get an approximate handle on the meaning of the word from the context of the sentence, then a writer may have more problems than that one word.

And heaven forbid a reader might learn a new word. I shudder at the thought.

[Julie Worth]

It's about honesty.

What does honesty have to do with fiction? It's all lies, after all. Sometimes the best word is the word you didn't use in the previous sentence, or the word that has the right number of syllables for the rhythm of the sentence. Meaning is only one of several considerations.

[Niteowl]

Honesty has everything to do with fiction. If the characters and their motivations aren't honest, if they don't ring true with the reader, then it's pap.

[NeuroFizz]

Honesty has everything to do with fiction. If the characters and their motivations aren't honest, if they don't ring true with the reader, then it's pap.
I don't know if honesty is the best word here. How about rectitude, probity, veracity, unequivocalness? Naw. Maybe the best word for characters and their emotions should move away from honesty and its synonyms, and be more like realistic to ring true with the reader. You know, like pragmatic, rational, authentic, genuine, well-drawn. Funny, these two lists don't everlap in my thesaurus.

(I don't use smilies.)

[Julie Worth]

Honesty has everything to do with fiction. If the characters and their motivations aren't honest, if they don't ring true with the reader, then it's pap.

It's not honesty that's important--here's where a thesaurus comes in handy!--it's believability.

[mkcbunny]

Seriously, I can't remember when I've disagreed with a quote more. It actually surprises me that it came from Stephen King, who seems quite down to earth. Then again, he *loved* the epilogue in Harry Potter.

I wish J.K. Rowling had picked up a thesaurus to find a word to replace "pant." About halfway through Deathly Hallows, I noticed the kids were panting, and then they panted, and panted, and panted through the rest of the book. My cat doesn't pant that much.

Back to the O.P., I'm in the camp that uses the thesaurus to find evasive words that I already know, and to cut back on adverbs. I have a tendency toward word reps, which drives me nuts, so I'll use the thesaurus to refresh my tired brain. My vocabulary comprehension is much larger than what comes to mind easily. But I'll never use a word that sticks out within the context at hand or one that interrupts the flow.

[limitedtimeauthor]

I could have sworn I already posted this, but oh well..

MelodyO... the word was skill. I was going to put "writing ability," but skill was better.

So, like, I said it wasn't any big deal. Just a plain ol word. In this instance, it really didn't make a difference, but a lot of times the right word does matter.

ltd.

[AllyWoof]

*strokes her nice, big thesaurus* There, there...mummy's not going to ignore you just because the mean man in stretchy pants said to...

Okay. You're talking to a book. That's scary.

[talps]

I read this thread and keep thinkin'... What's so dishonest about a Thesaurus?

Fully agree with Limited - the right word is more important than the first word that comes to mind. But certainly you have to use a Thesaurus judiciously. Ideally, we'll know at glance which words flow and which words go *CLUNK*.

Seems silly to think a Thesaurus useless, doesn't it?

[Ava Jarvis]

I don't know if honesty is the best word here. How about rectitude, probity, veracity, unequivocalness?

Verisimilitude. Actually, that is the right word here, in a Twain sense.

I didn't have to look that one up, though. I used a vocabulary builder some time back when; time to pick up the program again. And really, that's probably the best way to combat thesaurusism: to build up your vocabulary in a meaningful way such that you know what the words mean and the right contexts to use them in.

I haven't used verisimilitude for over a year, I think.

To note: I have a character in my story for which I need to pick up an etymology book, combined with a thesaurus and dictionary. Sometimes you need to look stuff up when someone was alive 150 years ago in the foreign country known as England. At some point I also need to pick up a guide to the dialect of Londoners.

For my other character, I need to consult an urban slang dictionary, dialect guide for Utah, and postulate how slang develops in about 90 years from now.

Language is love, man. As Tolkien might say. Except for the last part. And he'd use more accurate words. And make it sound better, too: a part of writing is also finding the right flow and rhythm, and sometimes you may need to adjust appropriately (which also means re-evaluating context or other paragraphs, etc). That's why "pant pant pant" starts to grate on the ears.

[Ava Jarvis]

Oh... and I believe verisimilitude is what we're aiming for, which has a similar flavor to honesty, but is not so. It is the kind of honesty any writer aims for.

Pure honesty ain't it.

[wee]

Depends on why you reached for the thesaurus in the first place. Sometimes I know that I know the right word, it's on the tip of my tongue, but I can't think of it so I'll use the thesaurus to remind myself of what I already know. If you're reaching for the thesaurus just to put a ten-dollar word down on paper, then I agree, that's the wrong reason. Odds are if you found the word for the first time in the thesaurus, you're going to use it incorrectly because you don't understand all the nuances.


Yep, yep, yep. I grew up avidly reading, raised by people who displayed their obvious lack of vocabulary by using "f-ing" in place of more austere adjectives. When I was older & could have conversations with a more varied crowd, I found myself often trying to say a word that I didn't know how to pronounce ... because I had only ever seen it written, never really heard it spoken. And sometimes I'll look up a word in the Dict/Thes because I want to use it, but I'm not 100% sure if its nuance, so I'll go see what words are listed as synonyms. Often I won't use it unless I can recall specifically how I've seen it used before. Sometimes looking it up means I'll take note next time I see it.

But that is a problem of growing up in a place where people think cowledge is for high-falutin' uppity-type people, and where the school district only hires teachers who primarily coach football, but go babysit pimply teenagers during those pointless things like history and arithemetik to fill up the part of the day not used by the Almighty Athletics Period and worship of the Football. (The brown pointy American type; which by the way, is the only kind Texans know anything about).

For those of us who survived & escaped the Cult of Pig-Skin Worship, whose activities are escalating right now during the Holy Months of September-November every Friday evening, if it weren't for door-stopper novels and a handy Dictionary, "f-ing" would be my only adjective, my only adverb, and be in place of most of my verbs. And most of my exclamations would be interesting variations of the Lord's name (I grew up thinking His middle name was either Henry or Roosevelt).


wee

[JeanneTGC]

Okay. You're talking to a book. That's scary.
Why? They talk to me all the time. :D Or, frequently, which cuts 3 words down to 1 and is, for those of us for whom the word "epic" is a way of life, a goal in and of itself. My dearest thesaurus helps with this greatly.

[AllyWoof]

Have fun talking with the book.

[JeanneTGC]

Have fun talking with the book.
I do! So far, the current book has been talking to me to the tune of 50,000 words and counting. :D

[RLB]

I found myself often trying to say a word that I didn't know how to pronounce ... because I had only ever seen it written, never really heard it spoken.

Yeah, that used to happen to me all the time! "Debacle" comes to mind. I learned most of my vocabulary by reading reading reading.

I'm also not opposed to a thesaurus. I like the distinction of choosing the best word over the first word. Though I don't use them often, and the first word almost always winds up being the best word...

[DeleyanLee]

But--if I can't remember how to SPELL a word, the thesaurus is great because I usually can spell a synonym to find it.

You mean there's another use for them? ;)

[Writer14]

I stumbled upon this smorgesboard of a thread and decided I'd meander throughout its contents. All of you call upon extraordinarily valid points and I applaud you.

=] Thats me & my smart talk.

[Soccer Mom]

Hey--one more point in favor of the Thesaurus. I actually used it today to take a ten dollar word down to a two dollar level.

The word that came to my mind was "undulating", but it was a description that my MC would never have used. After consulting my handy-dandy Thesaurus, I came up with "rippled" which worked a treat and was much more appropriate for time, place, and character.

So there! No hating on the Thesaurus here!

[Provrb1810meggy]

Used it for the same reason, Soccer_Mom. My MC is eleven years old, and though she's capable of being smart, doesn't really care about being smart. She doesn't have a great vocabulary. Hence me trotting over to thesaurus.com trying to figure out a word that she would use instead of derisive! I don't think I used one of the thesaurus words, just didn't use an adjective at all, but that's beside the point.

I do agree, though, that often times newbie writers have a perfectly fine word but use the thesaurus anyway to make their writing sound more pretentious. Well, that's probably not their reasoning, but that's how it turns out.

The writing instructor at writing camp discouraged my roommate's use of the thesaurus, and they ended up arguing about it.

[limitedtimeauthor]

I found myself often trying to say a word that I didn't know how to pronounce ... because I had only ever seen it written, never really heard it spoken.
wee

Yeah, that used to happen to me all the time! "Debacle" comes to mind. I learned most of my vocabulary by reading reading reading.


I am so at home. :)

ltd.

[JeanneTGC]

My grandmother read the entire Oxford English Dictionary, the HUGE one, from cover to cover. More than once. She had me read it when I was younger. I managed only once.

My grandmother did the NY times crossword puzzle in ink.

She also thought the thesaurus was a wonderful companion piece to the dictionary, because it was an easy way to ensure you didn't use just one word or phrase over and over.

You diss the thesaurus, you diss Gramma! Put 'em up, put 'em up...:D

[ink wench]

Hey--one more point in favor of the Thesaurus. I actually used it today to take a ten dollar word down to a two dollar level.

The word that came to my mind was "undulating", but it was a description that my MC would never have used. After consulting my handy-dandy Thesaurus, I came up with "rippled" which worked a treat and was much more appropriate for time, place, and character.

So there! No hating on the Thesaurus here!
Great point. I've had to do that several times in my WIP because my MC is, though bright, is uneducated.

[Soccer Mom]

Great point. I've had to do that several times in my WIP because my MC is, though bright, is uneducated.

Yup, that was my dilemma. The character was a fourteen year old boy in Civil War Appalachia. Although he is very intelligent, I just couldn't picture him describing the waves of grain as "undulating". :ROFL: