The believable villain...

[ZannaPerry]

Which would make a more believable villain?

An angry, jealous mother-in-law

or...

A crazed, dirty cop?

or both??

I'm having a hard time putting my story together, as in the killer, what drives my killer to take lives, what he/she is trying to strive for in hurting people, and how they want to be noticed....

Having a good motive behind a killing is important, it's just trying to figure out the missing puzzle pieces.

Any advice??

[KTC]

Either could be a villian. Anybody could be a villian. Explore your villian. They have to have an impetus for meanness. Go back to where they snapped. Write from there to discover their inner thoughts. They'll tell you why they are the way they are. They are holding either a lot of pain or a lot of hostility. Your's is to find out why.

[Cathy C]

Who says a dirty cop can't be female? And said female could happen to be a nasty mother-in-law... ;)

[Azraelsbane]

I agree that anyone can be a villain. Just don't make him/her 100% evil, because that just doesn't exist. Even the most vile people have some redeeming qualities, and this becomes especially obvious if you ever work from the antagonist's pov...which I LOVE doing. My antagonist is my favorite char to write as. Thing you have to be careful about with that...make sure he/she remains the antagonist. ;)

[The_Grand_Duchess]

I don't think its so much about who your villain is as it is about WHO your villain is. A well written villain is more than a type. He's the other side of your hero. If things had been different they would be your hero.

[Garpy]

Don't make your villain evil at all....that is, whilst you're in his head. No believable villain does anything he considers evil. It's all justified to the hilt in some twisted, crazed way. IN fact...a truly believable villain will portray himself the victim.

Getting the twisted logic right I always find the hardest part. If you want an object lesson in how to do this extremely well, read Thomas Harris's Red Dragon.

[nevada]

Here's something that I read somewhere, but I cant remember where, that I think will help you create the best villain ever.

Every villain thinks he is the hero of his own story.

[Cathy C]

Not every villian. Occasionally, I like to write a villian who enjoys BEING the villain. That is, he fully knows that he's the thorn in everyone's paw, and is confident and happy in his evilness.

[MidnightMuse]

What I really love is finding out WHY this villian has the thoughts/ideas/actions that he/she has. What brought this person to this point, was it something major? Was it a gradual thing? Did a once-happy, regular person just suddenly snap - and if so, what happened to cause that?

I realize you may not want too much of that backstory involved IN your story, but that's what makes me enjoy writing the villian's part so much - knowing that, even if it's not necessary for me to show that to the reader. Even more fun if it is, though :)

[Danger Jane]

I agree that sometimes, it's fun to write a villain who's just plain nasty.

My villan-y protags don't exactly consider themselves heroes...they're pretty screwed up because of what they've done. Not quite a hero, just somebody out to fix things for themself.

[Wolvel]

How about a mother-in-law who is a dirty cop?

jk

[Wolvel]

If you want a believable villain you will need to understand him/her as well as or better than your MC. The villain can be more fun to write than the hero, especially if you really dive into what drives them to do what they do.

To be honest I enjoy some villains more than some heroes. But if you just pick a type and don't flesh them out they won't be believable.

[Red Robin]

The only kind of crazed evil villain who is believable, is the the mentally broken kind. Someone who is psychopathic or schizophrenic, someone who can't tell right from wrong, can't empathise with others at all, or has no grasp of reality. I think of these people as ill rather than evil. I'm not sure how well they would work as the main antagonist of the story.

Silence of the Lambs and The Cell employed such villains. I found those movies ok, but not great. But I find it more disturbing and compelling if I can empathise with the villain in some way.

[ZannaPerry]

I think I am going to have a conversation with the villian of my story. See what I can dig out from her, see who she really is, and why she is so hateful that ultimately makes her take life. My villian is a sick, mad woman who happens to be the mother-in-law to my MC. But I also like some twists, so I am going to see what I can come of it.

Thanks for everyone's help!

[Nymtoc]

Here's something that I read somewhere, but I cant remember where, that I think will help you create the best villain ever.

Every villain thinks he is the hero of his own story.

That reminds me of acting technique. Actors who play villains understand that they must play their characters as if they are good, at least in their own minds. These characters believe in themselves, no matter how the rest of us may judge them. If they see themselves as evil, they come across like the mustachioed villains from the old melodramas who tied the heroine to the railroad tracks.

[ClaudiaGray]

I don't think that a villain must believe he is the good guy or doing the right thing, although it is compelling when you can do this. But I think you can have a villain aware that he is doing the wrong thing as long as you have a convincing reason why he is doing this. There are people who will kill for money, and not always to get their child a dialysis machine or whatever. Well, if you create a vivid character and explain why this person can value money more than anything else in life, that will work.

The utterly brilliant Ruth Rendell novel, A Judgment in Stone, begins by explaining -- in its first sentence! -- who the killer is, who was killed, and the motive. But the motive seems so incredibly unlikely that you go, what? And immediately you dive in to see how this could possibly be true. Rendell goes on to build a very full portrait of her murderer, a sociopathic woman who not only doesn't think she's doing the right thing but is probably completely numb to the very notion of there ever being a "right thing" to do. But her actions are believable, and ultimately, so is her motive. Meanwhile, Rendell also coaxes the readers to care deeply about the victims, and as the plot moves inexorably toward the horror you know is coming, it becomes impossible to look away.

Sorry, I was gushing a bit! But it's a phenomenal, very powerful novel -- and it goes to show that you can have interesting, believable villains without a sense of their own righteousness. As long as you have a three-dimensional character as your villain, and that person has motives beyond adjusting his red cape and twirling his mustache, you are well on your way.

[dclary]

7-foot tall space alien who masquerades as a mother-in-law to lure armed humans into close combat so he can take trophies of their skulls and spines.

[ZannaPerry]

Well, I just tried to have a conversation with my villain last night, and it was going pretty good but then she began to talk about her son, and how much she hates his girlfriend....and her failed marriage, and that her husband never left her...no, he was buried in her backyard.

Huh, she sort of took over the conversation and I had to put the notebook down because I was getting scared of her. Haha......but then I came down to it that she is a sociopath (?). Great word to describe her...

[nevada]

Being the hero of your own story doesnt mean believing you're the good guy. It means believing that you are the most important and that the story is really about you. That what you do is the right thing and that everyone else is wrong. Right does not equate good.

Remember also that in the beginning of your story, the villain must be smarter than your protagonist. If the protag and the villain were to meet in the climactic showdown in the beginning of your book, the villain should win. It is the progat's journey that gives him the skills and knowledge to defeat the villain.(Antagonist) If the protag could beat teh antag right from the start, he would just do it and the book would be less than one chapter long.

[preyer]

they also need to work for the government and speak german. jk.

villains tend to be self-righteous regardless of their mental state. some 'villainy' is even justifiable depending on what perspective you're looking from. and some villainy is necessary, as in 'the ends justify the means' philosophy (a moral qualm for the hero, not so much for the bad guy). some people are completely unaware of the villainy they do, such as your average wal*mart shopper or MDA telethon donor.

for more research about pure evil, i can provide a photo of my sister-in-law.

[Cyclops]

OK, if I have to vote on one or the other...I would say the mother in law.
Dirty cops are a dime a dozen in the media.

But its the author who makes the villain believable.

I would offer this advice: Look at both suspects and decide on which one would be more fun for you to write about...and thats the one to go with.

[preyer]

good advice: go with the one you're most interested in.

dirty cops are cliche? say it ain't so, joe! hm, now that i think about it, most villains are pretty cliche, no?

religious fanatics what hate chicks....

nazis who think they're the master race and all else should die....

CEOs who kill for the privilege of laying off a thousand workers....

the clerk who just can't bear to service another customer....

the hooker who kills her johns (see the religious fanatic. there's a real 'war of the roses' angle to be played out here)....

the stalker who 'just likes to watch'... until his 'girlfriend's' b/f pulls up in a camaro....

the evil baron von ravenscroft who taxes the poor and rapes their animals....

it would be an endless list....

[ZannaPerry]

I'm going for the mother-in-law. I am because I have somewhat experience with hateful mother-in-laws because my sister has one, and she simply dislikes my sister because she married her only son. I will take it from there. And she's the evil, quiet villain. Could learn a lot.

[Wolvel]

How abour a deranged author who snaps because she can't get published.

[ZannaPerry]

Ha! Then I will end up being the villian in my own story.... :D

[wayndom]

It's not the type or category of person that makes a villain (or any other character) believable or not. It's how well-written the character is that makes the difference.

Banker, lawyer, Indian Chief, if they're two-dimensional, they'll suck; if they're well-thought-out, have real emotions and their voices and actions ring true, you're home free.

Villians, in short, have to be real people, as real as anyone else in the story. It also helps if they're attractive, since real-life villains often ply their villainy by seducing. The early years of George Bush's presidency come to mind...

[wayndom]

I agree that anyone can be a villain. Just don't make him/her 100% evil, because that just doesn't exist.

Karl Rove.

[ZannaPerry]

This night, I was able to tie of some loose ends concerning my villain, and finally, finally I was able to read her. Imagine why she needs to kill, to put others down...and I am happy with what I have so far. Because it's also tying with my other characters which is what I was shooting for.

[wayndom]

Silence of the Lambs and The Cell employed such villains. I found those movies ok, but not great. But I find it more disturbing and compelling if I can empathise with the villain in some way.

This brought to mind my favorite villain, from my favorite movie.

Stanley Kowalski in A Streetcar Named Desire.

The first time I saw the movie, I thought Stanley was the hero; after all, he's a working stiff who's just trying to hold his marriage together against an intruding, alcoholic, and (it turns out) sexually deviant in-law.

When, at the end, Stanley is revealed to be no better than Blanche (and certainly worse), the effect, to me, was like being punched in the solar plexus.

If you haven't seen it, rent and watch it yesterday. And by "it," I mean the original, starring Marlon Brando. (Brando was picked by Tennessee Williams himself to play Stanley on Broadway, btw.)

[wayndom]

This night, I was able to tie of some loose ends concerning my villain, and finally, finally I was able to read her. Imagine why she needs to kill, to put others down...and I am happy with what I have so far. Because it's also tying with my other characters which is what I was shooting for.

By the way, not trying to muddy the waters here, but while it's true that bad people almost invariably rationalize their evil, there are times when people knowingly do something bad, just because they feel like it and can get away with it.

So what I'm trying to say is, not everything the villain does has to be "explained." There are people who know they're doing wrong, and just plain don't care.

Related note: After WWII, but before the Nuremburg war crimes trials, the U.S., knowing what horrors the Nazis had committed, sent psychiatrists to examine the top criminals, fully expecting to find that they suffered some sort of delusion(s). To everyone's surprise, the psychiatrists reported that none of the accused were in any way mentally ill, they all understood the meaning and implications of what they did, and simply chose to do it anyway.

So not everything is justified in every villain's mind.

Hitler's last public words, before stepping into a private room to commit suicide with Eva Braun were, "I hope the room reserved for me in Hell has a ceiling fan."

[FennelGiraffe]

By the way, not trying to muddy the waters here, but while it's true that bad people almost invariably rationalize their evil, there are times when people knowingly do something bad, just because they feel like it and can get away with it.

So what I'm trying to say is, not everything the villain does has to be "explained." There are people who know they're doing wrong, and just plain don't care.

Perhaps. But that's so boring. Complex, multilayered villains are much more interesting.