sex scenes--explain this to me

[BrandonfromOhio]

hhhhh

[willietheshakes]

I'm curious as to what you're reading to make this sort of generalization.

[ZannaPerry]

I have yet to read a book about a virgin throwing off all her clothes and giving herself to the man. That's the kind of sex scene that would completely turn me off.

It's about building, and chemistry, and the ROMANCE!

Not how fast I can get my clothes off. To that, there's no romance at all. Just how quickly the characters can get off because it's "okay" to feel this way, but are they truly in love?

Excuse my french but that's how sluts were discovered.

[victoria33]

By the way, I have now registered. I'm not Brandon, I'm his mother. You asked what books I'm reading, and one was Fortune's Rocks by Anita Shreve--the 15-year-old virgin. And maybe I'm oversimplifying--they kissed before making love, but I think that's about it. I do like Anita Shreve a lot. I know this has happened in other books, but I can't name them off the top of my head.
I appreciate your input. I'm glad my son mentioned this site to me. I have gotten essays and short stories published, and have started my first novel, but I am struggling with how to organize it. Have you written novels?

[Azraelsbane]

I have yet to read a book about a virgin throwing off all her clothes and giving herself to the man. That's the kind of sex scene that would completely turn me off.

It's about building, and chemistry, and the ROMANCE!

Not how fast I can get my clothes off. To that, there's no romance at all. Just how quickly the characters can get off because it's "okay" to feel this way, but are they truly in love?

Excuse my french but that's how sluts were discovered.

Sadly, I have read a lot of romance books that do the whole "I hate him so much!" Two page later *grunt, slurp, smackity smack*

Yeah, I hate that stuff... But there are good ones out there that stay away from this sort of idiocy. I've just wasted so much money on the others that I'm about to hang up my "romance reading" eyes. ;)

[Ava Jarvis]

I have yet to read a book about a virgin throwing off all her clothes and giving herself to the man. That's the kind of sex scene that would completely turn me off.

Yeah, it's the kind of scene that makes me wonder....

- Was the author's experience really like that?
- Maybe the author thinks this is the ideal experience?
- Maybe the author thinks, "If only I did this as a real rebel teen"?
- Maybe the author is getting impatient and wants to write the hot scene *right now*?
- Maybe the author thinks most of their readers think the same way?
- Maybe the author... is a virgin?

It's about building, and chemistry, and the ROMANCE!Here, here....

[jodiodi]

Not all books do it that way. In my submitted novel, my characters have months of buildup before they finally succumb, and neither is a virgin. I have a WiP where sex is more common in the civilizations of the MCs and love isn't a requirement; getting an heir, gaining some sort of mystical power, political negotiations, business transactions--sex can be a part of any of them.

I don't remember if I've ever written about virgins. I'll have to go back and look now.

But unrealistic sex within the rules of the society in the book is quite annoying.

ETA: It's not always about Romance. If the book isn't a romance, then there's no imperative to be romantic.

[Gillhoughly]

You guys might appreciate this humorous look at putting warning advisories on novels...

http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php/weblog/advisories_on_romance_novels/

Read, the open the "more more more" bit to read the advisory stickers.

PS--Naughty language alert! The Smart Bitches blog can get salty, but it is VERY funny, too.


Welcome victoria33! Enjoy your time here!

Some of us are published (I am and prefer to remain anonymous) some are not, and most of us are helpful.

This is a very positive site, no flame wars allowed, and you can get feedback for your work on the Share Your Work forums. Be sure to read the Welcome Newbie post. This is a huge board and it's easy to get lost amid all the goodies on display!

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Williebee]

Welcome Miss Victoria!

Gil -- thanks for the link. I think the "delayed gratifaction" sticker should be a requirement for the fantasy section.

[The_Grand_Duchess]

OMG! That was so funny!

Maybe the girl in the book was just really anxious to have her cherry popped? Sex is a funny thing. . .

[amber_grosjean]

None of my characters have been virgins, at least to my knowledge (my YA may have been but there's no sex in that one anyway).

As far as the scene goes, the characters take it slowly, taking the clothes off each other. I like building the scene, giving it an atmosphere, arousing the readers. You need a little of the foreplay of course lol. The whole experience is new for me since I've never written this type of books before but it can be rather fun as I sit there at my computer giving a play-by-play of what my characters are doing.

Why would I want to skip all the juicy parts and just have them throwing their clothes off and jumping into bed? I do realize some authors do that but where's the arousement in that? I want the steamy scenes lol.

And welcome to the group too!
Amber

[scarletpeaches]

I've read that book and loved it. Virgins can get horny too, you know.

On a sidenote, I've heard reviewers call Olympia a tart or a slut, as if her lover had nothing to do with it. You know, the older, married man who should have known better and had the responsibility in that liasion...

[Wolvel]

In my wip the mc starts out as a virgin, there is a scene when they change realms as they do there clothes transform from modern design to roman lion cloths and loose robes in which the female with him is fully bare chested and it affects him. She is several years his senior and just blows him off like its nothing.

Using this I built up the tension between them so when they were ready it was a go.

He is 21

she is 700

Their werewolves.

[She_wulf]

...

Why would I want to skip all the juicy parts and just have them throwing their clothes off and jumping into bed? I do realize some authors do that but where's the arousement in that? I want the steamy scenes lol...

Depends on what type of personality the 'narrator' has. I couldn't see Robert Jordan going through a lot of foreplay before taking Maria. It was the middle of the afternoon in a war zone for cryin out loud.

OTOH, there's approximately twenty pages of description in the latest Merry Gentry novel for one scene. :D ;)

The characters above(or should I say authors listed above) have different styles. The writing reflects that.

[job]

You asked what books I'm reading, and one was Fortune's Rocks by Anita Shreve--the 15-year-old virgin. ... I know this has happened in other books, but I can't name them off the top of my head.


For the writer, the consideration is not so much ...

-- Should she have been more chary in spending her virginity?
-- This isn't my own experience.
-- Why doesn't she have better morals?
-- What are young people coming to these days?
-- I find this really offensive.


It's more ...

-- Why did the writer chose this particular kind of sex?
-- What does this say about the character?
-- How does it work in the story?
-- What are the plot consequences of this act?
-- Does the writer make it believable?



'. In most novels, when the two lovers make love for the first time, they throw off all their clothes and go for it-?

I have to shake my head and ask ... what have you been reading?



'. I have gotten essays and short stories published, and have started my first novel, but I am struggling with how to organize it. Have you written novels?

Some folks write outlines and summaries and flash cards and storyboards.
Some folks just start writing and see where it takes them.
Some folks write chronologically.
Some skip all over the story, working on scenes as they come to them and stringing them together at the end.

It's all very individual. Whatever works for you is right.

[Felicia Beasley]

One of the characters in my novel is considered a slut by some of the other more conservative characters but even she likes lots and lots of foreplay!!

[Pila]

I like the build up far more then I like the result. Books where the characters are so ready to lose their virginity to their 'one true love' is just stupid. I read one recently where the female MC wanted her vampire boyfriend to 'take her.' but he refused because he didn't want to hurt her. It was just really odd and I didn't like it at all. It seemed really out of place.

I like the sexual tension more then the sex.

OTOH, there's approximately twenty pages of description in the latest Merry Gentry novel for one scene

Hahahaha. The more recent Laurell K. Hamilton books are pretty much one big sex scene. It's not very, erm, "romantic" or anything lately, though >.>

[scarletpeaches]

LKH needs a damn good hack 'n' slash editor if you ask me. And some talent that would enable her to think of, you know...a story, rather than "Stick another sex scene in!"

[Pila]

LKH needs a damn good hack 'n' slash editor if you ask me. And some talent that would enable her to think of, you know...a story, rather than "Stick another sex scene in!"

I know, and I was SO excited when I discovered her series. I was in love. But then I got farther in and it just became one big sex fest, in which case the sex isn't even that good anymore. It's gross. If I hear the words 'wet' and 'tight' used in the same sentence one more time, I'm going to vomit.

I've talked to somebody that works with her publisher he says Laurell's editor says that the books come in even WORSE. That's just messed up.

But at long as people keep buying the books, they'll keep getting published *shrugs* Whatever floats peoples boats.

[scarletpeaches]

I've only read the first two Anita Blake books. A friend said the later ones are great. But she's into BDSM anyway, whereas I'm a bit more...shall we say, vanilla? TMI. Anyway. To her, these scenes are realistic. I daren't ask what her and her boyfriend get up to. But she's reading them as a pervert, whereas I'd be reading them as a writer. There's no story there from what I can see from flicking through the books. It's just porn, and not even arousing porn at that. It's not even erotica, just very bad writing.

[willietheshakes]

One of the characters in my novel is considered a slut by some of the other more conservative characters but even she likes lots and lots of foreplay!!

Well, in all fairness, I've found the sluts do like lots and lots of...

In books! I've found IN BOOKS...

[scarletpeaches]

Definition of a slut = a woman who has the sexual morals of a man.

[willietheshakes]

Can't argue with that.

[CaroGirl]

I neither write nor read romance so I don't have the same reading experience as you. Typically, sex scenes need to be believable and take into account character traits. It destroys a novel for me if the virginal young lady suddenly feels free enough to throw off every stitch and prance around a stripper pole, later revealing herself to be inexplicably knowlegeable in the act of fellatio.

Like all scenes, the sex scene should have a reason for being there and should move the story forward.

[willietheshakes]

It destroys a novel for me if the virginal young lady suddenly feels free enough to throw off every stitch and prance around a stripper pole, later revealing herself to be inexplicably knowlegeable in the act of fellatio.


Well, the aptitude for fellatio often has an explanation, though, particularly in the "saving it for marriage" crowd...

:)

(God I'm in a punchy mood this afternoon. Too much reviewing, too little human contact.)

[CaroGirl]

Well, the aptitude for fellatio often has an explanation, though, particularly in the "saving it for marriage" crowd...

:)

(God I'm in a punchy mood this afternoon. Too much reviewing, too little human contact.)
Aha! There's the rub. What constitutes sex; therefore what is a virgin? Is the act of fellatio, indeed, sex? Is a virgin just a woman whose hymen is intact? Or is a virgin a woman who's engaged in no sex acts whatsoever (with another person ;))?

[willietheshakes]

Which brings us back to the age old question, which we Canucks can laugh at from a distance: what the definition of "is" is...

[CaroGirl]

Which brings us back to the age old question, which we Canucks can laugh at from a distance: what the definition of "is" is...
Okay. It's time for you to get yourself some human contact! And maybe a good night's sleep.

[Pila]

There's no story there from what I can see from flicking through the books. It's just porn, and not even arousing porn at that. It's not even erotica, just very bad writing.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

The most recent book has a bit more plot to it, and there aren't as many sex scenes, but it's a far cry from the earlier books. I think I only got to the fifth chapter or so before I had to stop reading because it was so boring.

I can't even bring myself to re-read the earlier books because I know that they won't ever go anywhere =(

[Felicia Beasley]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

The most recent book has a bit more plot to it, and there aren't as many sex scenes, but it's a far cry from the earlier books. I think I only got to the fifth chapter or so before I had to stop reading because it was so boring.

I can't even bring myself to re-read the earlier books because I know that they won't ever go anywhere =(

I also enjoyed the first few books in the Anita Blake series and even read some of the Meredith Gentry series but no more. I will never ever pick up another one of her books even if it is more about the plot then the sex... which I doubt will happen. I lurked on her website and blog for a while and things over there get pretty vicious when someone complained that her latter books do not reflect the quality of her earlier works. I guess I just don't like the attitude she has towards former fans and pretty much anyone that doesn't kiss her behind. Now she could be pleasant in rl, I have no idea , I don't know the woman. But the persona she shows online is atrocious.

[scarletpeaches]

Agreed. She's even bordered on the Anne Rice with some of her rants. It's like no-one is allowed to dislike her books and she really goes off on one when people don't even criticise her, just voice the opinion that they're not keen on her later books.

I mean, if she's such a good writer, why doesn't she let her writing do the talking? I agree that her online persona is petty, vicious and almost playing-the-victim when it comes to criticism of her work.

I read her blog from time to time for amusement, but there was a time when it really got me down to read of her boasting, "I wrote ten pages today, thirty pages the day before that, the scene I'm writing is forty pages longer than I expected."

Now I'm not one for outlining or planning in any great detail, but it seems to me that her writing isn't freestyle, but rather, undisciplined. The emphasis on 'number of pages' rather than 'quality' gets to me.

And Jeez, girl really needs to get over herself with the hating on people who don't like her books.

[Pila]

I also enjoyed the first few books in the Anita Blake series and even read some of the Meredith Gentry series but no more. I will never ever pick up another one of her books even if it is more about the plot then the sex... which I doubt will happen. I lurked on her website and blog for a while and things over there get pretty vicious when someone complained that her latter books do not reflect the quality of her earlier works. I guess I just don't like the attitude she has towards former fans and pretty much anyone that doesn't kiss her behind. Now she could be pleasant in rl, I have no idea , I don't know the woman. But the persona she shows online is atrocious.

Yep. I completely agree.

At least with the Merry Gentry series there weren't any expectations. The book was purely based on sex from the get go, whereas the Anita Blake series was actually GOING SOMEWHERE.

Laurell has said pretty bluntly that if you don't worship the series then you can go the hell away, which is pretty immature. I understand that you can't please everybody but she isn't even attempting to listen to her fans.

I just miss the days when Anita was kickass. Thankfully I've found some other series much better that keep me entertained *cuddles Jennifer Armintrout books*

[Gillhoughly]

Definition of a slut = a woman who has the sexual morals of a man.

I got this definition (the difference between a bitch and a slut) from a male friend:

"A slut has sex with everyone.
A bitch has sex with everyone but ME."

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[frimble3]

But she's reading them as a pervert, whereas I'd be reading them as a writer .
This is where it's important to know your intended readership. Although both writer and pervert pay the same amount for their copies.

[aruna]

By the way, I have now registered. I'm not Brandon, I'm his mother. You asked what books I'm reading, and one was Fortune's Rocks by Anita Shreve--the 15-year-old virgin. And maybe I'm oversimplifying--they kissed before making love, but I think that's about it. I do like Anita Shreve a lot. I know this has happened in other books, but I can't name them off the top of my head.


Funnily enough, I borrowed that very book from the library last week! I read one page, didn't connect, and returned it. Pity I didn't read further, so that I could make some very pity and relevant comments on this thread! Welcome to AW!

[aruna]

Depends on what type of personality the 'narrator' has. I couldn't see Robert Jordan going through a lot of foreplay before taking Maria. It was the middle of the afternoon in a war zone for cryin out loud.

.


It doesn't have to be physical foreplay. For Whom the Bell Tolls is one of the most moving and sensitive love stories I have ever read. There was an immediate and overwhelming attraction - emotional as well as physical - between the two of them from the start. Maria practically gave her heart to him within the first five minutes. The emotional build-up is incredible. And we don't get any explicit sex anyway. She gets into his sleeping bag, they cuddle, he holds her tight, he feels her legs long next to his, the earth moves. It is most tenderly and lovingly written - there is no coarse "taking" of her or wild abandoned sex - and the war atmosphere just made it all the more tender.
And I should know - I loathe graphic and loveless sex, but THIS relationship made me weep for days! The fact that they both know they only have 3 days and that he may die at the end just made the whole thing far more desperate and poignant.

(ETA - middle of the afternoon? I don't remember that. I remember the first time as middle of the night. Though I may be wrong.)

[southernwriter]

I have yet to read a book about a virgin throwing off all her clothes and giving herself to the man. That's the kind of sex scene that would completely turn me off.


Um ... actually ... I just finished reading The Red Tent, and it was gorgeous. It's a wonderfully written book, and in spite of this very thing happening, I'm sure you would love it anyway. I shed quite a few tears. (I hope if my novel is ever published, I get a cover this alluring!)

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Esouthernheart/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/redtent.jpg

[Inky]

I dared to break all the rules.
I refused to have my characters doing the do by page 3.
Oh, trust me, when they do make that connection, it's full blown erotica, but it's not until 300 pages into the book...you know...AFTER the relationship is fully developed. I also didn't then have erotica every 4th page....it was a one time deal. Sorry folks. When I read, I want story, one good jaunt, and then simply subtle hints it's happening again, but spare me the pages and pages of limbs entwined madness. Once was crystal clear.
Besides, there's so much more to sexy and romance and love than the act of sex itself.

[aruna]

Um ... actually ... I just finished reading The Red Tent, and it was gorgeous. It's a wonderfully written book, and in spite of this very thing happening, I'm sure you would love it anyway. I shed quite a few tears. (I hope if my novel is ever published, I get a cover this alluring!)



Sorry - I could not stand that book (and I read the whole thing)!

[southernwriter]

Sorry - I could not stand that book (and I read the whole thing)!


What was it you disliked?

[aruna]

Well - it was several years ago so I can't remember in detail, but the general impression left over is lots of sex, menstruation, childbirth, blood, and so on. Now, for me the process of childbirth is indeed a miracle, in fact the greatest miracle of all, but this was just too much of a good thing - too bloody and body-concerned. Sorry I can't say more at this point!

[southernwriter]

Well - it was several years ago so I can't remember in detail, but the general impression left over is lots of sex, menstruation, childbirth, blood, and so on. Now, for me the process of childbirth is indeed a miracle, in fact the greatest miracle of all, but this was just too much of a good thing - too bloody and body-concerned. Sorry I can't say more at this point!



Huh. I didn't get that at all. I thought it more of a celebration of female life. Go figure. I guess this is why we query so many different agents. One person hates it, the next loves it. I think I'll go look you up and see what you've written.

[aruna]

Huh. I didn't get that at all. I thought it more of a celebration of female life. Go figure. I guess this is why we query so many different agents. One person hates it, the next loves it. I think I'll go look you up and see what you've written.

Yes - it;s one of those books you either hate, or love. See the amazon reviews! Many of the negative reviews seem to be on the subject of doctrine, historical accuracy, biblical accuracy. That was not my problem. I just don't identify with the female life that is celebrated here.

[Felicia Beasley]

I dared to break all the rules.
I refused to have my characters doing the do by page 3.
Oh, trust me, when they do make that connection, it's full blown erotica, but it's not until 300 pages into the book...you know...AFTER the relationship is fully developed. I also didn't then have erotica every 4th page....it was a one time deal. Sorry folks. When I read, I want story, one good jaunt, and then simply subtle hints it's happening again, but spare me the pages and pages of limbs entwined madness. Once was crystal clear.
Besides, there's so much more to sexy and romance and love than the act of sex itself.

If you are breaking the rules, I want to read more authors like you! Honestly what you described is exactly the right kind of story to me... a story that focuses on character and story, not on the thrusts. And don't get me wrong, I do like a good thrusting (in the books that I read) every now and then but only if it's backed by an amazing story. :D

[jodiodi]

I have to remind myself to put sex into my stories. I'm much more into intrigue, battles, spooky & creepy stuff in an actual story. When reading, I usually skip over the sex scenes unless they're doing something I've never encountered--then, depending on my level of interest in it, I might read. Mainly, I want to know what happens next. Anybody can have sex. Not everybody has an interesting story.

[Azraelsbane]

I also enjoyed the first few books in the Anita Blake series and even read some of the Meredith Gentry series but no more. I will never ever pick up another one of her books even if it is more about the plot then the sex... which I doubt will happen. I lurked on her website and blog for a while and things over there get pretty vicious when someone complained that her latter books do not reflect the quality of her earlier works. I guess I just don't like the attitude she has towards former fans and pretty much anyone that doesn't kiss her behind. Now she could be pleasant in rl, I have no idea , I don't know the woman. But the persona she shows online is atrocious.

I think Anita Blake jumped the shark around book 6 or so. Not long after sex with Jean Claude. I admit, I still buy the series (because I have a horrible obsession with Asher), but I skim a helluva lot more than I read. Plot? Ha! I just want an Asher sex scene, seriously. And she knows she has a following for that guy. At the end of the last two books she's given horrible Asher teasers. The last one hinting the next book might be a BDSM one with him... Yes, I'll buy, but she better damn well deliver this time, or I'm writing some very personal hate mail. I basically have come to hate every last character outside of Jean Claude and Asher...I think she should just start a new series about them. At least then I would be so caught up in the sex I wouldn't care about plot.

Also...as to LKH persona... maybe she's started to become like Anita? Not trying to author bash or anything, but after writing 80k words in 1st person Morghan (who is like, the definition of confused super-bitch), I had to pull in the reigns on my rl attitude. Sometimes I get too into my chars and actually adopt their personality traits. I mean...she has written like 15 books first person Anita, and Merry Gentry is like fairy-Anita...so, what, 20 books as Anita? I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case.