My novel might be TOO offensive

[Jeffrey Pace]

In regards to fiction work:

Do you ever worry that some of your content might be too intense in regards to violence or theme?

I am trying to publish my novel, and although I would classify it as thriller/supsense, there is some serious adult content contained therein.

Could I be putting off agents or limiting my market?

Thanks

Jeff

[Maryn]

Jeff, anything's possible.

However, some very violent and/or graphic novels make it to market every year, many quickly devoured by readers who enjoy this sort of fiction. (The reality, not so much, eh?)

The first novel I ever beta read for someone here was pretty violent. I enjoyed it thoroughly, although I did plenty of nit-picking, too.

You do need to confirm the fit of your novel with an agent's sales. If she's selling sweet cozies, your uber-violent novel might indeed be off-putting. So do your homework. Find out what each potential agent has sold in the last few years, and who s/he represents and what sort of novels they write.

Oh, and nice to meet you!

Maryn, vacuuming the welcome mat yet again

[Jeffrey Pace]

Maryn,

Thank you so much for your feedback. I have only been querying agents who represent horror/thriller/suspense so hopefully I can find a good fit.

Jeff

[nevada]

In Hanibal, lecter opens a guys skull and eats the brains while the guy is still alive. THere is nothing so gross, so offensive, so offputting that good writing wont trump. (not saying hanibal was good writing, mind you.)

Search through the back postings, every so often someone wonders the same thing. Believe me, good writing will take care of anything.

[Jeffrey Pace]

Thanks Nevada.

[lfraser]

Horror readers have a pretty high tolerance for horror.;)

[Deirdre]

If you have compelling enough characters, books like Hannibal show you that you can get away with nearly everything.

If you don't have compelling enough characters, getting an agent or editor to turn the page will be difficult.

Don't worry about offending people. Even the least offensive piece out there will manage to offend someone.

Worry about writing compelling characters in interesting situations.

What you want is an editor saying what I said earlier today: "I normally don't like this style, but I loved this piece." ETA: Unless, of course, they actually really like that style. Also possible.

[joyce]

I finished my first novel several months back and queried agents. I had several requests for partials and fulls. My novel was in another genre than yours, fantasy/paranormal romance. Every response I got from an agent somehow stated that my novel though interesting, was too controversial especially for a first time, unpublished author. It was suggested that I try and find and agent or publisher that was willing to take a chance on a first timer with such controversial material. I knew my manuscript was not the sweetest thing in the world ever written, but I never expected to get responses that it was too controversial. I do believe good writing is the key, as well as finding the correct agent that represents what you are trying to sell. I have since set #1 aside and am working on #2 & #3, which I hate to say, might conform to the rules of a first timer trying to get published, a bit better. Good luck and keep submitting, just try to get it to the right agent. By the way, at first I felt pretty crappy about the rejections due to writing someting "too controversial for an unpublished author" but then I said, what the hey, I wrote something that perhaps made someone think too much and feel uncomfortable. It gave me strength to keep on writing.

[Jeffrey Pace]

Thanks for the inspiring words joyce. I don't plan on quitting anytime soon.

Deirdre, your advice cheered me up. The one consistent compliment I keep getting about my book is how well developed the characters are. Of course there are only two major characters to develop so perhaps I had it easy ;)

Jeff

[Deirdre]

Deirdre, your advice cheered me up. The one consistent compliment I keep getting about my book is how well developed the characters are. Of course there are only two major characters to develop so perhaps I had it easy ;)

Good job, then. :)

[Stijn Hommes]

You should only worry about that if you are getting rejected.
There's plenty of books with horrific torture, steaming sex and abuse and they still get read. Yes, you will no doubt limit your readership, but you would do the same if you wrote a smutty romance.

[Project nachonaco]

You wanna talk to me about controversial topics?

*deep breath* The main character in my novel is the daughter of a teenager who lives with a self-serving but abused woman that uses drugs and her drunk husband and his crazy, selfish, daughter and then the MC gets kidnapped to be a child soldier.

[scarletpeaches]

I'm getting the strangest feeling of deja vu...

[preyer]

so, should i go ahead and write the one about four children trying to murder their mom, she finds out what's happening and sets out to murder them first? ...or skip that one for later?

[Kate Thornton]

Oh, no write that one! It sounds delicious!

[PeeDee]

I had an army of babies with sharp teeth consume two men alive, in one of my stories.

It's all a matter of 1) how you show it 2) How the reader takes it.

Give someone who prefers Regency Romance novels a copy of Pet Semetary and you'll send them gibbering away. Then again...they might discover they really dig it.

I was bored and not grossed out or horrified a bit by Thomas Harris's Hannibal books (that may just be me), but then again, I read Steve King's Misery at arm's length, delighted and repulsed at the same time.

Depends on the reader.

Write it well and decently. After that, see what happens... :)

[preyer]

sounds like a sci-fi channel original movie, pd, lol. seriously, make them mutant mummies fifty feet long and you've got a script for 'em.

[PeeDee]

It'd have to be called "INFANT KILLER ATTACK BABIES!!!!" and it would have to start actors from bad softcore porn films (and maybe ONE actor who starred in ONE sci-fi film, sometime in the 90's.)

I'm sad that novel got trunked, because I dug that scene. They'll turn up again, somewhere... :D

[MidnightMuse]

I can't wait till Tzinski 2.0 starts teething :D

[PeeDee]

PETE: GET HIM AWAY FROM ME!

WIFE: He is not going to eat you.

PETE: You don't know that! I do! I WROTE ABOUT IT!

WIFE: How much tea did you have today?

PETE: None! I can't turn my back on the CARNIVEROUS BABY!

WIFE: What DID you drink today!?

PETE: VINEGAR! TO SPOIL MY MEAT!

WIFE: ...I'm going back to work....

[preyer]

it's sure to offend someone. :)

here's the thing about being 'offensive': some people looove being offended, it feeds their self-righteousness. and the vast majority of people aren't truly offended, that being such a singular reaction, despite many people claiming to having been 'offended.' most people aren't honestly offended more than shocked at something distasteful. for some folk, being 'offended' is a daily happening *because they search out things to be offended by*! we're all addicted to something, after all, eh?

then there's guys like me who, paraphrazing a line out of 'inherit the wind,' live to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. i cook up the offensive for those to be offended by, and they in turn provide me with my own sense of self-righteousness, so it tends to work out as far as volatile relationships go. i don't recommend it for everyone.

now for my question: should ugly people be allowed to write?

[Azraelsbane]

I have a 3-way in the first 5 pages of my novel. I was worried about it at first, but it's mandatory, and the betas I've sent partials to seem to find it "beautiful and innocent"... So I guess I'll be okay. LoL.

As long as you write it well, chances are you'll find someone willing to take a chance on it sooner or later.

[Jeffrey Pace]

Ok thanks. I feel better now. :)

Jeff

[CoriSCapnSkip]

You know what? Since my works are historical, they WILL offend somebody, somewhere, and even when it's "who" you would expect, it will surprise as to "how" and "why"--you can never figure it, no matter how carefully you prepare. But, you know, if I don't write these stories, I will be upset, because here they are hanging in my head for years, growing and taking up room, so what can I do but attempt to write them as best as possible?

[Andre_Laurent]

I'm agent shopping for an ms that I worry might be a little too violent in places. However, everyone who beta read it, loved it, and volunteered to beta my next ms when it's ready. I have more people willing to read for me than I know what to do with.

Someone will always be offended and someone else will love the same work.

[Shane Fitzsimmons]

The first sentence of my novel deals with my main character having shit his pants because he's just been shot, his friends have been killed, and he's pretty sure he's about to die, violently.

The moral of the story: Don't worry about it, but let your first page really set the tone so your readers know what they're getting into.

[BrotherBrutus]

Jeff,

I definitely know the feeling. I remember looking back at what I had written in my novel so far and saying to myself, "Wow, every single subplot ends in tragedy." If you have that concern, then just go back and reconsider the most egregious situations. Try writing different versions of the most horrific scenes. Then, if you think you can still do them justice without the carnage, offensive material, etc, then I would say go for it.

Cheers, BB

[wee]

In regards to fiction work:

Do you ever worry that some of your content might be too intense in regards to violence or theme?

I am trying to publish my novel, and although I would classify it as thriller/supsense, there is some serious adult content contained therein.

Could I be putting off agents or limiting my market?

Thanks

Jeff

I've read things with such intense violence that it made me nauseated & I had to put it down. I do believe there is a market for it & people who enjoy reading this type of fiction, because I have seen it in print.

[Jeffrey Pace]

Well I can always say this: NOTHING I have ever written has been or will be as nasty as American Psycho.

Jeff

[Dragonfly45]

I think a lot of writers (maybe even all) have places in their works where they push the envelope. If we didn't push it some, it'd get pretty boring pretty fast. I had a controversial scene involving torture in my story that I was torn over for a little while, but then when it came down to it, this was fiction. I say go for it and don't worry about it until someone who matters gives you reason to worry.

[scarletpeaches]

I was about to say nothing short of eating babies is offensive in literature, then I remembered the Hannibal Lecter books, so...

Nope. The only thing that offends me is bad writing. Subject matter? I'll read anything.

[lfraser]

Well I can always say this: NOTHING I have ever written has been or will be as nasty as American Psycho.

Jeff


And yet, it was also wickedly funny.

[wayndom]

Is your offensive novel by any chance called, "The Aristocrats"?

[bsolah]

Not sure if this has been said before, but story is everything. If you're telling a compelling story where things actually happen and there's interesting characters, then extensive violence and/or sex is fine, so long as it just isn't about violence/sex.

But I definitely agree with what Shane said, setting the tone of the story early on is important. You don't want 200 page of fluffy bunnies and then suddenly they get mowed down by machine guns.

I mean, that could happen but the reader should have an idea what they're in for before it happens.

[Jeffrey Pace]

Is your offensive novel by any chance called, "The Aristocrats"?

:D

[batgirl]

Give someone who prefers Regency Romance novels a copy of Pet Semetary and you'll send them gibbering away. Then again...they might discover they really dig it.

I have all of Georgette Heyer's Regency romances, and all of Stephen King's up to Tommyknockers. I wasn't sent gibbering by Pet Semetery, but I thought the structure was kind of flabby, and that (like Dreamcatcher, later) he was setting up plot developments that never materialised.
I wonder if there's some Regency horror out there? I once collected a bunch of common words in Regency and Horror titles, but I don't have the tech ability to build a title generator.
-Barbara

[DarkLight]

Why oh why, dear God! Whyyyyyy!

Okay. I'm done. And I will give you the simplified version of the answer I feel obligated to give to all the posts that ask if sex and violence are too violent for literature. First, I will piont out the following books- Clockwork Orange, Color Purple, Fight Club...And if those examples did not answer your question, I will translate the point they convey...violence and/or sex are part of reality. Reality is real. Therefore, it can be meaning full, if the story demands it. If there was no violence in life then, yeah, I'd it would be very offensive to include in literature. People who do not like violence, but attempt to change it, may complain. All those who blantatly ignore it may kindly shut up. Point being, do not change your masterpiece to reach a wider audience unless you're in this for the money and not the principle of the thing. Literature is art. It is there to entertain and to prove points just as theater, visual art, and music do. If the violence or sex is essential to the plot, do not get rid of it, or you will essentially be altering the novel at its best and it will no longer be at its best. Imagine if literature conformed to all viewpoints to make it universally acceptable. I guarentee every book would be called "Charlie Goes to the Zoo and Finds a Cute Puppy who Loves Him, and Plus, Charlie Obeys His Parents." Boring. Why be a writer if you are out there to please? All the greats are controversial. All the popular books (Harry Potter, Davinci) are controversial. Say what you. mean. Don't be afraid to do whatever you need to for the novel. If it's good enough, someone will publish it. That means, be a little disagreeable if you need to, and if the novel does not demand controversial scenes, that's okay too. Follow what the art demands. Plus, sex and violence are often not a problem for a lot of publishers. You can read other comments of mine and others on the subject on the thread "Why all the caution?" I don't know how to make links.

[Celia Cyanide]

If you are writing for adults, I don't see the problem.

[bsolah]

I don't think anyone disagrees with your last post DarkLight

[preyer]

as an aside:

'I have all of Georgette Heyer's Regency romances, and all of Stephen King's up to Tommyknockers. I wasn't sent gibbering by Pet Semetery, but I thought the structure was kind of flabby, and that (like Dreamcatcher, later) he was setting up plot developments that never materialised.' ~ i've always said, batgirl, that king writes great 450 page short stories. by that i mean he's a master of taking what could often be a short story and stretching it ooout. (another annoysome quirk was he always used to tell you the character was going to die. not sure if he still does that, i stopped reading him years ago.)

no, i don't think any will disagree with you on that, dark. i think the fear is turning off a potential publisher. rape scenes, for examples, that are there just to be offensive/controversial are things readers can see right through.

however, in cinema things are pretty crazy if we can use that as a measuring stick on what people will tolerate. some rape scenes are extremely graphic (more so with european films than ours, i think). torture scenes are fairly common, and the thing there is to be clever and new (i still remember the guy getting his kneecaps ruined by a power drill). then there's some people pushing for with love scenes to have the actual actors have real sex on film. granted, you won't see mandy moore doing this anytime soon, but some of your more avant garde actors and directors and yeah, it's a possibility. earlier this year, there was a controversy about a movie starring dakota fanning getting raped.

opponents of this stuff might view it as further evidence of the decline of morals in our society. as opposed to when i'm not sure, lol.

several years ago, i went with my wife's step-dad's brother to a party in a nice house on the river. everyone there was affluent and pushing sixty. it was really weird because i'm used to a certain kind of party, the kind where the soberest amongst us ran to 'taco bell' and we played 'quarters' most of the night. not where hors d'eurs (sp) were served along with mixed drinks. i don't think i'd ever been to a party where there were actual swizzel sticks. (i remember one fourth of july blowout where the roast pig's head was floating around in the pool. that was the same place where i passed out upside down on the stairs. good times. i think.) the point is i don't think i could write anything for those people that would end with them putting the book down and thinking, 'wow, that was a good read.' that is, not unless i seriously compromised what i *wanted* to write. the other point is those folk had their own morality, they came from a time when that's how parties went. the really funny thing is they were probably louder and as boisterous as my peers. they left the party in bimmers and mercedes', we left ours in run-down fords and cop cruisers. it was nice, however, to get lit on good beer and have toasted crackers with cheese and chips and dip as opposed to getting ripped on whatever we could afford and eating cardboard taco shells with plutonium-grade cheese-like scrapings.

[bsolah]

...the point is i don't think i could write anything for those people that would end with them putting the book down and thinking, 'wow, that was a good read.' that is, not unless i seriously compromised what i *wanted* to write...

Really agree with this. You're not going to please everybody. Just write what you want to write, what you'd want to read. Chances are other people, not everybody, but a portion of people will have similar reading tastes and ideas to you and that's who you're aiming for.