Writing dialogue phonetically, or not?

[OctoberRain]

There was a thread earlier that sort of meandered onto this topic. What would be the best way to write dialogue in a way that shows the character speaks with an accent?

Could something like this work:

“How about another one?” Ray said.

It took Billy a moment to figure out what he was being asked. What he heard was, “How a-bow-out ah-nudder ‘un?”

“Sure,” Billy said.


“Help yourself, then.”

And then just continue to write the dialogue for Ray (or whoever the character is that speaks differently) normally, with readers now knowing that Ray speaks a certain way. Or would readers miss this and eventually forget he has an accent? Or it not as effective as writing out Ray's accented speech phonetically every time, but in a subtle way?

I’m thinking back to Stephen King’s It, where one of the characters stutters and King writes his dialogue exactly as this character would sound the whole way through the book. I didn’t think it was bad at all, and it didn’t disrupt the flow or give me a headache trying to decipher it.



But I’ve also seen King do something like the example above, where he describes the accent initially (and sometimes again further into the story), while always writing the dialogue normally.

Thoughts?

[kristie911]

I've seen both done well. However, it gets very tedious reading a lot of phonetic dialogue. A word here and there as the occasional reminder of how a character speaks is probably best.

[Red Robin]

I was about to scream NO! until I read your sample dialogue. That kind of thing is fine. I can only speak for myself, but I hate reading phonetics, particularly attempts at southern drawl.

What you've done is a good idea. After that, just write dialogue normally. If you feel a pressing need to remind the reader of an accent, try some very light phonetics such as - “How a-bout another one?” Ray said.

[Rhea L]

Jacqueline Carey did that in her Kushiel series not with dialogue, but with names - to indicate that they were, in fact, a foreign language to the character speaking them. It worked for me.

[blacbird]

Could something like this work:

“How about another one?” Ray said.

It took Billy a moment to figure out what he was being asked. What he heard was, “How a-bow-out ah-nudder ‘un?”

“Sure,” Billy said.


“Help yourself, then.”

And then just continue to write the dialogue for Ray (or whoever the character is that speaks differently) normally, with readers now knowing that Ray speaks a certain way.

Your example works perfectly for me. And following that exactly as you suggest would be perfect, as well.

As has been mentioned in other threads on this topic, phonetic pseudo-spelling of irregular or regional pronunciations used to be fashionable, but really hasn't been for half a century or so, with rare exceptions (Irvine Welsh comes to mind, with Trainspotting and even then, I hated it.)

If you want a couple of good instructive examples from earlier times, Huck Finn, of course is the classic on how to do it well. Twain pretty much invented the concept. Compare his really skillful work with the nearly contemporaneous try by Melville in The Confidence-Man. The latter is an important literary work, but compared to Twain's masterpiece, the use of phonetically-rendered dialect is truly atrocious and a big blemish on the thing as a whole.

caw

[Wolvel]

I really don't see a probelm with using the diffent speech the whole time.

Several of my characters come from the South so I write their speech with a touch of southern drawl, but I'm also from the South.

Example of what I use goes like this. "Somthin' ain't right, I'm goin' to check it out."

I don't go overboard trying to phonic the whole way of talking, I just use a small amount to remind the reader of the accent. Usually involves removing the G from words ending in ING.

I have seen some attempts on southern drawl be way over done, such as Ah'm for I'm and don't get me started on uontto (you want to) and awight (all right).

For me subtle is the way to go, it does not take much to pull off an accent, just the right balance.

[Julie Worth]

Could something like this work:

“How a-bow-out ah-nudder ‘un?”


Just my impression--when I read it, it came out really slow, like a very drunk Homer Simpson. If that's what you want, fine. But for fast readers, having to slow down to decode makes the dialogue sound slow and stupid.

[cletus]

Just my impression--when I read it, it came out really slow, like a very drunk Homer Simpson. If that's what you want, fine. But for fast readers, having to slow down to decode makes the dialogue sound slow and stupid.
Which is why the OP is only doing it once to show that is how the character talks. The rest of that person's dialogue is then written normally. The reader knows the character talks like that, but is not held up trying to decipher everything that character says.

[Indirectly]

I think that's fine.

Here's a grand example of What Not To Do (imo) a la George MacDonald's "Alec Forbes of Howglen":

"Is na Broonie a fine coo, Betty?" ... "Puir Broonie! Naebody midnit me, an' sae I cam to you, Broonie."

"Dinna tell auntie whaur I am, Betty. Lat me be. I'm best here wi' Broonie."

"Whaur's the bairn, Betty? At some mischeef or ither, I'll wad."

"Hoot! mem, the bairn's weel eneuch. Bairns maunna be followed like carr (calves)."


Okay if I type/read/look at any more of that, my mind will surely explode. If I were some sort of historical linguist, it might be fascinating, but as things stand, it's quite revolting. (And I adore George MacDonald - forgive me, dear.)

[DeleyanLee]

"Is na Broonie a fine coo, Betty?" ... "Puir Broonie! Naebody midnit me, an' sae I cam to you, Broonie."

"Dinna tell auntie whaur I am, Betty. Lat me be. I'm best here wi' Broonie."

"Whaur's the bairn, Betty? At some mischeef or ither, I'll wad."

"Hoot! mem, the bairn's weel eneuch. Bairns maunna be followed like carr (calves)."

I quite agree, Indi. This is the kind of stuff that just drives me batty and will guarantee I put a book down in about 3 pages if this is a major character. When I have to read dialogue out loud to have a clue what is being said, it's too much work.

I've also seen dialect that has a nice cadence to it written with normal words, but with the cadence intact. The Irish accent can be done well that way, and I've read entire books where even the narrative was done with an Irish cadence. But when you start messing with the spelling and sticking in apostrophes--sorry, I don't want to work that hard, as a reader or a writer.

[Joe Moore]

I think your example works fine. But I would avoid doing anything to excess that slows the reader's eye as it moves across the page. Also, ask yourself how many books you've read that used the same technique. Did you enjoy them? Did the technique enhance your experience? Or did it get in the way of the story? Be cautious of stepping outside the norm of what the reader is used to. If the reader has to work at it, they will put the book down and move on to something that requires less effort. Good luck.

[maestrowork]

Please don't write phonetically -- that makes my head hurt and takes me way out of the story because it's hard on the readers' brains. A little bit goes a long way, coupled with sentence structures, voice, style, word choices...

[CaroGirl]

I prefer the way it's done in a novel like Toni Morrison's Beloved, where it isn't so much the dialect itself that's on display, but a specific speech pattern.

"What churches around here? I ain't set foot in one in ten years."
"How come?"
"Wasn't none. I dislike the place I was before this last one, but I did get to church every Sunday some kind of way. I bet the Lord done forgot who I am by now."

[Cranky]

I loved CaroGirl's example...that's exactly right, imo.

Phonetically rendered dialog makes my head hurt, for the most part. I've dabbled with it from time to time, but it looked pretty amateurish and silly, in addition to being difficult to read and understand. But maybe that's because I'm a terrible writer, lol.

It never comes across to me the way it sounds in my head, either.

[AllieB]

Me, too...I tend to slow down/skip over/get a headache when I have to read too much phonetically spelled dialogue.

[Azraelsbane]

I'm not a fan of phonetic dialogue, although Caro's example works for me. Even the one in the OP jarred me, to tell you the truth. If you simply have to do it, I guess that's okay. I prefer to give hints in the pov chars thoughts (if the other person has a drunken slur). There are ways to get it across without having to make the reader stop and sound out the weird phonetic spelling (which to me, one word of it is just as jarring, if not more so, than a dialogue containing it).

As far as people "sounding uneducated," I hate stereotypical dialogue. Actions speak louder than words (look, ma, a cliche!). I like my dim chars to react poorly, rather than have dumbed down speech.

[maestrowork]

The only time I wrote something out phonetically was that the character had a speech impediment, and the 1st person narrator had trouble understanding her. So I wanted the readers to have trouble understand her, too.

[Cranky]

The only time I wrote something out phonetically was that the character had a speech impediment, and the 1st person narrator had trouble understanding her. So I wanted the readers have to trouble understand her, too.

Well, see, to me, that's legit. (Not that my opinion matters, lol)

If someone is uneducated, or has an accent, I think there are other ways of doing it other than phonetic dialog. With a speech impediment, I think it gets the point across much better. Like the example with the character in Stephen King's book. Especially because that speech impediment was used in an interesting way, too. In my opinion it was, anyway. :)

[Sassee]

Small hijack, somewhat related...

How would you write out someone's speech that stutters AND talks too fast? My work friend's husband has the absolute worst speech I've ever heard. It took me a few weeks of listening to him to finally understand what he was saying (she usually has to translate for other people). Now that I'm used to him I get the general gist of what he's trying to say, but dear God, I've never heard such a serious speech impediment in my life, and half the time I have to make him repeat himself. Even then I just guess. Mostly it sounds like rapid garble with a bit of inflection. To top it off his voice is loud and unpleasant to the ears (I don't know if it's tone or what, but it just grates on you).

The best part? He answers phones for a living.

As a writer that sort of speech fascinates me. It would be a real challenge to get him down on paper. Without me posting a link to his recorded voice, what would you guys suggest for that sort of character? How would you get that across in written dialogue? Or would you even try?

[Indirectly]

I quite agree, Indi. This is the kind of stuff that just drives me batty and will guarantee I put a book down in about 3 pages if this is a major character. When I have to read dialogue out loud to have a clue what is being said, it's too much work.

I've also seen dialect that has a nice cadence to it written with normal words, but with the cadence intact. The Irish accent can be done well that way, and I've read entire books where even the narrative was done with an Irish cadence. But when you start messing with the spelling and sticking in apostrophes--sorry, I don't want to work that hard, as a reader or a writer.

I agree. I made it to page five of that book and it's a 440 page book. The sad thing is, even though the dialogue doesn't stay that way it was still too much for me.

I have also seen dialogue that manages to carry the flavor or tempo of an accent or a foreign language without bogging down the reader.

I couldn't remember a fictional example off the top of my head, but here's a quote from a website showcasing a Russian museum (http://eng.polymus.ru/?s=22&d_id=67 ) which I can only assume was written by a native Russian speaker: "Siadristy could shoe ordinary flea with tiny golden horse shoes. He nailed each horse shoes by three steel nails." (At least, I hope it wasn't written by a native English speaker. >.>)

While perhaps not the best example, it still shows something readable, but different. (Of course each language will vary in terms of the common mistakes/structure.)

When authors nail it, it can be quite good, but if they can't, I would prefer no hint of accent/language. Otherwise, I wallbang the book.

[Queen of Swords]

If someone is uneducated, or has an accent, I think there are other ways of doing it other than phonetic dialog.

I have an uneducated character who needs to describe a criminal's behavior before a formal gathering of magistrates. Already feeling a bit nervous, she tells them how the criminal gave her a valuable gift, then apologized for its poor quality. "I didn't trust him because of that," she says. "He seemed so... so..."
"Obsequious?" suggests a magistrate.
"If that's a bad thing, yes."

Of course, if the character has a speech impediment, phonetic dialogue would be necessary, but I would personally be careful not to overuse this.

[OctoberRain]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. The example passage is something I made up on the spot (it's not in my book, I would never write someone with a southern accent as I'm Canadian and have no real idea what it even sounds like). But one of my characters does speak with an accent and it's important that the readers know that to really get a feel for him. So I'm trying out different ways of getting across his way of speaking to the reader in a very quick way without bogging the book down with lots of phonetic speech, thinking that I could "cheat" by explaining it just once after introducing him into the story.

[Wolvel]

Well being from the South the general accent is where I do my work. usually with the removing of the g from the ing words gives it the southern drawl I'm accustom too.

But the example of Indirectly will give a body a headache.

[ClaudiaGray]

For what it's worth, a friend of mine who's an editor at S&S was annoyed the other day b/c she'd gotten in a manuscript that had phonetic dialogue, and on the rewrite, she was going to have to make the writer take it all out. "We have to add back all the Gs," she said, referrin' to talkin' like this.

One editor's opinion, FWIW.

[Indirectly]

Well being from the South the general accent is where I do my work. usually with the removing of the g from the ing words gives it the southern drawl I'm accustom too.

But the example of Indirectly will give a body a headache.

I know it gave me one. :D

But, still, shows where the phonetic dialogue is a super bad idea in practice, no? *shudder*

[Spiny Norman]

Cormac McCarthy did an okay job of it, but usually no, please don't. Twain did it too and it's pretty hard to get through sometimes. Your brain is wired to recognize words based on the letters - we actually don't read phonetically, like a voice is saying the words in our heads, you just see the letters and understand what they signify. Making you spell it out as you go is sort of like adding three or four middle men to a shipping company. The chain becomes waaay too complicated.

There was even a study recently that showed that the letters don't even have to be in the right order. They just have to be there. But add more letters or take away some and your brain has to start translating.

[Chasing the Horizon]

I love phonetic dialogue--in moderation. Used properly it makes it easier to hear the character's voice in your head and distinguishes the speakers from each other. Used poorly it just gives you a headache. I also hate it when writers drop letters without putting an apostrophe in their place. This makes it hard to read because your mind is trying to identify this 'new' word, rather than instantly recognizing it as a purposeful misspelling.

I use a mixture of phonetic spelling and word choice to distinguish the characters in my own writing and none of betas have complained. Several even commented that they liked it.

[wayndom]

Your example works for me, precisely because it gives a single example, then drops it. If you're worried about readers forgetting about the accent, you can always remind them later without spelling out the accent.

And by the way, I plowed all the way through IT, and the stuttering drove me nuts every time it came up. A lot of things in IT drove me nuts, and it's the last Stephen King book I've read. That's almost 20 years ago, now...

[Zelenka]

Kind of shamelessly jumping onto someone else's thread, but I didn't want to take up forum space when my question is so closely related.

In terms of accent I always try to avoid whole loads of phonetic spellings and rather do dialect things, sentence structure, the odd bit here or there to give flavour, but in my fantasy WIP I have a character with quite a pronounced speech impediment. In his dialogue, therefore, what's the best way to write that out - phonetically or just say something about his speaking that way when the character's introduced?

[ACEnders]

Definitely too much is too much...it slows down the reader, and the reader will skim through the dialogue. I think what you did works well and as others have said...maybe throw in a bit here and there.

[FennelGiraffe]

I have a character with quite a pronounced speech impediment. In his dialogue, therefore, what's the best way to write that out - phonetically or just say something about his speaking that way when the character's introduced?

First question: Why does this character have a speech impediment? Is the char being bullied because of it? Or is his inability to communicate at a key moment significant to the plot? In other words, make sure you have a good reason for creating this problem for yourself.

Second question: How much dialog will this character have? If he only has a couple of lines in a couple of scenes, then you might be just as well off going with the phonetic spelling. If he talks a lot, on the other hand, ...

Third question: What kind of speech impediment is it? Some are more intrusive to read than others. Stuttering isn't too bad, if it isn't overdone. But things that alter the spelling, like lisping and W for R, really slow down the reading. (Uh, that's my personal preference as a reader. Other opinions may differ.)

No matter what you do, you want to do a lot less than how it would actually sound in real life. Perhaps show it when the character is first introduced, and refer to it occasionally thereafter. Maybe, just maybe, show it again in moments of unusual tension.

[Zelenka]

First question: Why does this character have a speech impediment? Is the char being bullied because of it? Or is his inability to communicate at a key moment significant to the plot? In other words, make sure you have a good reason for creating this problem for yourself.

Second question: How much dialog will this character have? If he only has a couple of lines in a couple of scenes, then you might be just as well off going with the phonetic spelling. If he talks a lot, on the other hand, ...

Third question: What kind of speech impediment is it? Some are more intrusive to read than others. Stuttering isn't too bad, if it isn't overdone. But things that alter the spelling, like lisping and W for R, really slow down the reading. (Uh, that's my personal preference as a reader. Other opinions may differ.)

No matter what you do, you want to do a lot less than how it would actually sound in real life. Perhaps show it when the character is first introduced, and refer to it occasionally thereafter. Maybe, just maybe, show it again in moments of unusual tension.

It's easier to answer these in reverse order, if you don't mind.

First off - it's a lisp he has, which is down to an injury he received a short while before the story starts, and this injury is one of the many things this character has stored up as reasons to hate the world and be generally rotten to everyone else (or that's my MC's theory anyway).

He doesn't have an awful lot of dialogue - he's a work colleague of the MC and so is peripheral for the most part, but he's also not much of a talker because of the impediment, which is greatly made fun of, and because he's the sort to glower from a corner most of the time.

To answer the first question, I don't like giving characters traits solely to advance the plot, so no, that's not why I gave him it. It's more a case of fleshing out the character, giving him a lot of reasons to be bitter, and the story of how he came by the injury is tied in with his job and his relationship with the others in that job.

[blacbird]

Not.

caw

[miles]

“How about another one?” Ray said.

It took Billy a moment to figure out what he was being asked. What he heard was, “How a-bow-out ah-nudder ‘un?”

“Sure,” Billy said.


“Help yourself, then.”


Assuming this is from a third-person limited POV, I have a slight problem with this. You can't get into what Ray really said, without being in his head. I'd write this something like:

Ray asked something, and it took Billy a moment to figure out what it was. What he heard was, “How a-bow-out ah-nudder ‘un?”

"Oh," Billy said. "You're asking if I want another one?”

Ray nodded.

“Sure.”

Billy smiled. “Help yourself, then.”

[NeuroFizz]

In dialogue, write words not sounds. By far, it's most important to convey what the person is saying, or there is no need for the dialogue in the first place. There are many ways to convey irregularities in speech patterns or to get across speech quirks without having to resort to writing out sounds, particularly including all of the specific nuances of the character's pronunciation. If it must be done (in your mind), pick one or two common words that the character "alters" but that have close-to-normal spelling, and use those as an occasional reminder to the reader (readers are not dumb). It's much more effective, in my mind, to use tangled, irregular, or butchered grammar (with real words) to convey aspects of accent or dialect. This can include using pet phrases of the character's homeland.

[DonnaDuck]

I prefer the way it's done in a novel like Toni Morrison's Beloved, where it isn't so much the dialect itself that's on display, but a specific speech pattern.

"What churches around here? I ain't set foot in one in ten years."
"How come?"
"Wasn't none. I dislike the place I was before this last one, but I did get to church every Sunday some kind of way. I bet the Lord done forgot who I am by now."


I'm going to have to agree with this example. I was always taught, if at all possible, never to use a phonetic dialogue because, like so many people said, it bogs down the writing and it becomes a pain to read. The best attempts at a different accent are like the one above where the spelling of words isn't used but different words all together, sentence structure and the like. It plays more into the skill level of the write to be able to make an accent come through in the sentence as opposed to in the words.

I have a southern character in one of my stories and considering they drop g's, instead of goin' I used the word gone because, to me anyway, when a southerner says goin', it sounds like gone (depending on inflection and the like) but playing around with sentence structure, to me, is always better than polluting the eyes with a slew of foreign and mangled words and apostrophes.

[JoniBGoode]

Several of my characters come from the South so I write their speech with a touch of southern drawl, but I'm also from the South.

Example of what I use goes like this. "Somthin' ain't right, I'm goin' to check it out."

I had to smile at this topic, because I belong to a writer's group and we have probably spent 15 hours over the past 2 years debating this topic. We finally had to agree to disagree.

I'm just going to say that when I studied fiction writing at Northwestern University in 2002, I was told that rendering dialogue phonetically throughout the manuscript, as it is above, was condescending to the entire class of people (in this case Southerners.)

That becomes even more problematic when the dialogue is unique to a certain nationality, or a certain ethnic group. It was also suggested that using unique sentence constructions, word choice or phrases was a better tactic than dialect.

The profs very strongly suggested only interpreting an occasional line, as October Rain does in the original post. If you just allude to the dialogue occasionally, the reader will fill it in for themselves.

Thomas Wolfe does a really, really nice job of this in A Man in Full.

[An aside. Just once, I'd like to read a book written by a Southerner where the language used by people from the north, and the midwest, and the east, and California, is rendered phonetically. Because dialect as it's normally used does suggest that the midwestern or North Atlantic accent is normative, and that the way Southerners speak isn't.

For one thing, you'd have to run everything together to show how fast they talk, (Forone thinG yidhaVeta rineVeRythinG tiGeTher) and for another, you'd have to wildly exaggerate the hard consonants.]

[bunnygirl]

Phonetic dialogue is one of those things that has gone in and out of fashion. It was standard in Twain's time but it's currently out of fashion and has been for several decades.

I agree that CaroGirl's example is the best way to show how a person speaks. One should rely primarily on patterns of speech with only the occasional phonetic spelling where it's most necessary and most likely to help add clarity rather than detract from it.

Treat it like strong spice-- a little will go a very long way.

[blacbird]

Phonetic dialogue is one of those things that has gone in and out of fashion. It was standard in Twain's time but it's currently out of fashion and has been for several decades.

Actually, it wasn't standard in "Twain's time". He more or less invented it, in Huck Finn, though you might give some lesser, and not necessarily entirely positive, credit to Joel Chandler Harris, in his Uncle Remus stories. Problem is, Twain was a genius at both rendering it and making it readable. Herman Melville, in The Confidence-Man, made a stab at rendering Negro dialogue phonetically, and it is painful to read, compared to Twain's work.

The cowboy fiction of writers like Steward Edward White, Zane Grey and Max Brand used phonetically rendered dialogue to a considerable extent, with mixed results. Grey and Brand continue to be good reads, because their story-telling abilities are so excellent it's easy to slip past the awkwardness of the dialogue-rendition. But it's a harder thing to get away with today. I still can't read Irvine Welsh, for example, purely because of his penchant for phonetic spelling of dialogue (and narrative). And, yeah, I know he's a best-seller.

Word choice is a far better way of rendering colloquial or ethnically-accented dialogue than artificial attempts at phonetic spelling.

caw

[arodriguez]

Uh, wut duz puhunotiklee meen?

[MickyMc]

Thanks everyone who posted here, I have been pondering on this for the last week, will anyone understand my two Geordie bank robbers... and the answer clearly is, not very much!

[IceCreamEmpress]

Actually, it wasn't standard in "Twain's time". He more or less invented it

I love you, blacbird, but that's absolutely wrong--I missed this thread on its first runthrough, but now that it's been necromanced, I just wanted to clarify this point.

The person who really invented US dialect humor was Augustus Baldwin Longstreet, with his publication of Georgia Scenes in 1835 (the year of Twain's birth!). He was one of a number of the "New Humorists" or "Southern Humorists" who preceded Twain: George Washington Harris's horrible "Sut Lovingood" stories, the "Lije Benadix" stories, the "Captain Simon Suggs" stories--all of these depicted drunken, brawling louts who would probably have cut Paw Finn over a plug of tobacco.

One of the things that makes Twain great is the way he takes this broad, caricature method and uses it to create real, living characters instead of two-dimensional cartoons. If you compare Twain's writing to the works of his many contemporaries who were influenced by the "New Humorists" (Artemus Ward, Petroleum V. Nasby, et al.) the difference is astonishing.

[lute]

This is a very interesting thread and I have enjoyed reading through all of the comments. Personally, I'm not a fan of phonetic dialogue, as it does slow me down when I'm reading. I managed to make my way through it in Huck Finn, but slowing down to repeat the dialogue in my mind isn't one of my favorite things to do and I'll tend to skim over the conversations. I prefer reading smoothly through a novel, and phonetic dialogue just seems to chop it up for me.

I also agree that CaroGirl's example was the best way to represent how someone speaks. It didn't bother me at all, and yet covered the character's speech in the best way possible. Kudos!

[Dana-Lynn]

Great topic! I've enjoyed reading everyone's responses!
:popcorn:
So, to be clear, is it generally acceptable to show southern dialogue by using words without the g, like:
darlin'
hangin'
takin'
etc.

How about words like woulda instead of would've, or hadta instead of had to, etc.? As long as they are used briefly by a secondary character (not the MC), and perhaps just in a paragraph rather than throughout the whole MS. . . .

[DWSTXS]

“How a-bow-out ah-nudder ‘un?”

I would shorten it. So it makes the reader read it as it was said. It sounds like the character is talking too slow.

"Howwa-boutta-nudder'un?"

[chroniclemaster1]

If you compare Twain's writing to the works of his many contemporaries who were influenced by the "New Humorists" (Artemus Ward, Petroleum V. Nasby, et al.) the difference is astonishing.

Kinda like the way you begin to appreciate Snoop Dog after your kids make you listen to the hip hop station too much. ;) It's not so much great, as astonishing compared to what other people have done with the form.

Personally, I'm not a fan of phonetic dialog, as it does slow me down when I'm reading. I managed to make my way through it in Huck Finn, but slowing down to repeat the dialogue in my mind isn't one of my favorite things to do and I'll tend to skim over the conversations. I prefer reading smoothly through a novel, and phonetic dialogue just seems to chop it up for me.

I agree whole heartedly, just appreciate that this is a matter of effect and technique. Phonetic dialogue is a great way to provide flavor and create the vocal setting. It can be used in a new character's first scene and then discarded when it no longer effectively serves it's purpose in the scene. It's no different from a movie where characters begin speaking in a foreign language with subtitles and then suddenly break into English. It's served it's purpose in creating the setting and then you move on. There are times like that when you want the reader to slow down. Your choice of dialog is like any other choice you make in writing and it should be suited to your scene.

[Craig Gosse]

...speaking in a foreign language with subtitles and then suddenly break into English.

Virtual poll - how many have seen 'Hunt for Red October?'

For me, the entire scene with Political Officer Putin is fantastic - Russian, right up to the word that is identical in both languages; 'Armageddon'; and then English....

[Quadrillion]

Phonetics can be great, but you can't overdo it. Lose the dashes, BTW. And don't tell it as what someone heard.

[Quadrillion]

BTW. WHo talks like that? Ah????? Ah as in Ahhhhhh???? Ah nudder one???? Not every word has to be misspelled. "How 'bout anuthah one?" she purred. I think Tom Wolfe's Bonfire uses phonetics for his southern princess.

[Voyager]

As a reader, tell me once that the character is a Celt and maybe, if you insist, give a line or two phonetically. Pages and pages of dialogue laced with goofy northern ebonics just irks the hell out of me.

[Craig Gosse]

As a reader, tell me once that the character is a Celt and maybe, if you insist, give a line or two phonetically. Pages and pages of dialogue laced with goofy northern ebonics just irks the hell out of me.

The 'best' I can say is... "If you are a professional phonetic linguist writing for other professional linguists...'

You are an author. You are, perforce, 'locked into your own skull'. You potential readers are also 'locked in their own skulls.' This is a problem; the definition of being an author is finding at least a semi-viable solution. The better the solution, the better an author you are. Far be it for me to argue against aiming at a very narrow, highly-technical segment of the population, wherein at least you can prove relative competency. The only question I would ask is: "What is more important; being theoretically 'right', or engaging the reader...?"

(No, I'm not being snarky. If you think I *might* be, see this:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94786 )

This is a 'Do as I say, not as I do' post, based on the fact that I mistakenly thought that 'this' was good writing, but has remained unpublished for a half-decade. I do not, and never have, pretended to have all the answers. Just... well intentioned, if firmly held, 'suggestions'....

C. Gosse.

[wayndom]

But I’ve also seen King do something like the example above, where he describes the accent initially (and sometimes again further into the story), while always writing the dialogue normally.

Thoughts?

I wish King had done that with the stuttering MC in IT. Instead, he spelled out every stutter, every time the character spoke, and it just about drove me nuts.

Interestingly, I just read King's On Writing, in which he says in no uncertain terms that one should not write phonetic dialog.

If I were writing the passage you offered, instead of writing the actual sentence first, then describing what the character heard, I'd reverse the order, something like,

Ray said something, but all Billy heard was, "Owbownuthern." It took him a second to realize Ray had said, "How 'bout another one?"

Then write normal dialog, but mentioning his heavy accent on occasion.

[RJK]

Small hijack, somewhat related...

How would you write out someone's speech that stutters AND talks too fast? My work friend's husband has the absolute worst speech I've ever heard. It took me a few weeks of listening to him to finally understand what he was saying (she usually has to translate for other people). Now that I'm used to him I get the general gist of what he's trying to say, but dear God, I've never heard such a serious speech impediment in my life, and half the time I have to make him repeat himself. Even then I just guess. Mostly it sounds like rapid garble with a bit of inflection. To top it off his voice is loud and unpleasant to the ears (I don't know if it's tone or what, but it just grates on you).

The best part? He answers phones for a living.

As a writer that sort of speech fascinates me. It would be a real challenge to get him down on paper. Without me posting a link to his recorded voice, what would you guys suggest for that sort of character? How would you get that across in written dialogue? Or would you even try?


After you qualify his speech problem, write what you hear, not what he thinks he's saying.

[Bufty]

I may be misunderstanding you, RKB. If so, apologies.

After explaining the speech problem, wouldn't one be better just writing what he says in plain English? The point of explaining the problem is surely to avoid phonetic dialogue, as opposed to enabling a reader to interpret it?

After you qualify his speech problem, write what you hear, not what he thinks he's saying.

[Mythica]

JK Rowling used this technique for a few characters in the Harry Potter books, and quite effectively, too. The two that come to mind are Hagrid and Fleur.

[RJK]

I may be misunderstanding you, RKB. If so, apologies.

After explaining the speech problem, wouldn't one be better just writing what he says in plain English? The point of explaining the problem is surely to avoid phonetic dialogue, as opposed to enabling a reader to interpret it?

From what I understand, it is almost never a good idea to misspell words, even in dialog, as it will slow down the reader and pop him out of the story. What I meant was the gaps in what you hear when the person speaks. I guess it would depend on whose POV you are working from at the time. If you are in the POV of the person with the speech impediment, then the complete, correct dialog should be written. If you are in the POV of the listener, then what did they hear? I hope that makes some sense.

[Bufty]

I think I follow you. Thank you.

In the case outlined - where the impediment is known in advance - regardless of POV, I hope the reader sees plain English, with sentences punctuated by other than dashes and ellipses.



From what I understand, it is almost never a good idea to misspell words, even in dialog, as it will slow down the reader and pop him out of the story. What I meant was the gaps in what you hear when the person speaks. I guess it would depend on whose POV you are working from at the time. If you are in the POV of the person with the speech impediment, then the complete, correct dialog should be written. If you are in the POV of the listener, then what did they hear? I hope that makes some sense.

[Mumut]

I was told to call this 'typing'. Making the dialogue tell you the type of person speaking. I have Lords and Ladies who speak very correctly; 'I would like to see him hanged.' The middle class speak the way most of us do these days; 'I'd like to see him hanged.' and the peasants (in 1347) say, 'I'd like to see 'im 'anged.'

There's not a great percentage of conversation at the peasant level and I've had no complaints about the 'typing'.

I can't imagine everyone of the various levels of society talking the same way. It would require a lot of additional explanation such as, "'.......' the old peasant said". I don't like that.

[IceCreamEmpress]

The middle class speak the way most of us do these days; 'I'd like to see him hanged.' and the peasants (in 1347) say, 'I'd like to see 'im 'anged.'

You've gotten this backwards. Your medieval peasants speak like 19th-century Cockneys, but 14th century peasants actually aspirated in places where we don't today--instead of saying "It's 'orrible" they'd have said "Hit's horrible."

Dropping 'h' sounds was, in that era, a sign of higher social class--because the higher classes were more influenced by the Normans and, in theory, were as comfortable with French as with English. There's something about this somewhere in Chaucer.

[Craig Gosse]

14th Century English....

My fereful loue from me ys fledd
whyche of long tyme hast ben my gyde
now faythefull trust ys in hys stedd
and byde me sett all fere asyde