Extra Credit

[RainbowDragon]

If a producer/director (X) collaborates with a writer (Y) on a story, what's the best way to credit X and Y if X comes up with the basic storyline and provides feedback throughout the first draft and revisions of Y's work, and Y does all the actual script writing, fleshes out all the details and adds original elements that would surely differ were the story in the hands of another writer (for better or for worse)? I'm sure it could go more than one way, but I'm interested in hearing a variety of responses. . . Thanks!

[Mac H.]

If it's a big enough project it will be covered by the Guild ... so the guild gets the final say on the writing credits - not the producer.

However, to pick bits out of your scenario:
* "Y does all the actual script writing" = Then there won't be any alternative to "Written by Y"
* "X comes up with the basic storyline... and Y fleshes out all the details and adds original elements" = Sounds like'Story by X and Y'.

* "X provides feedback throughout the first draft and revisions of Y's work"
There isn't really a credit for 'provided feedback throughout' - as otherwise that would include anyone who picks up the script and gives an opinion!

Also since 'X' has director & producer credit, it doesn't make sense to give them an additional credit for providing 'feedback' ... since that is part of what producing and directing is. (Ever heard of a screenplay that got made WITHOUT the director or producer offering an opinion on the script?)

Good luck,

Mac

[Celia Cyanide]

I think Mac is correct. I agree that a director/producer credit should be enough for X. What X is doing is what a director and producer would do anyway. If X were ONLY coming up with the story and giving feedback, then X would deserve some sort of credit as a writer.

[RainbowDragon]

Actually, if anyone who has knowledge of contracts would be willing to peruse this one and let me know their thoughts, I'd certainly appreciate it, just send me a PM.

[hubbabubbs]

yet QT in Natural Born Killers only gets a "story by" credit where the script his name's on is in parts exactly as filmed (notably the end and the brilliant beginning). Oliver Stone and co scoop the "Screenplay by" credit.

[Rainy Night]

Mac has it right, the WGA determines who gets what credit. The criteria for determining credit is all explained on the WGA website.

[RainbowDragon]

Does the WGA have any guidelines for independents? What I found there seems pretty corporate, and geared toward existing members who are being paid up front. . .

[cadge]

yet QT in Natural Born Killers only gets a "story by" credit where the script his name's on is in parts exactly as filmed (notably the end and the brilliant beginning). Oliver Stone and co scoop the "Screenplay by" credit.
I always thought that was because he tried to disown it and get his name removed completely, so the "Story by" was a compromise.

[Celia Cyanide]

I always thought that was because he tried to disown it and get his name removed completely, so the "Story by" was a compromise.

Yeah, I think you're right about that. I believe that's how it happened.

[zeprosnepsid]

On the NBK front, I talked to people involved with it and they claim that story is apocryphal. They said he really didn't contribute much -- Just the basic idea and a scene or too (so story by credit would be fine). But the whole situation is generally fuzzy story that lives in film fan lore. Who knows.

[RainbowDragon]

On the NBK front, I talked to people involved with it and they claim that story is apocryphal. They said he really didn't contribute much -- Just the basic idea and a scene or too (so story by credit would be fine). But the whole situation is generally fuzzy story that lives in film fan lore. Who knows.

So then it's not uncommon for whoever comes up with a premise to have the whole "story by:" credit even if it's just an idea with no tangible conflict or resolution outlined?

Let's say a producer says "Hey I want you to write a movie about fishing off the coast of Maine!" The screenwriter comes on board and writes it her/his way, a beautiful story of love, lobsters and the worst North Atlantic hurricane in 1,000 years (if anyone uses this idea, it's story by: me, haha). It's accepted and produced (whether the final cut reflects the actual script is another story, but it's not a concern in the contract). If credits read Story by: Producer, Screenplay by: Writer would everyone in the industry know the writer contributed oodles of original ideas to a producer's basic premise? Or should it be story by: Producer and Writer? Or based on an idea by: Producer? Or Story Concept: Producer? Or Script Supervisor: Producer? Or does it really make a whole heck of a lot of difference at all? :)

[Celia Cyanide]

So then it's not uncommon for whoever comes up with a premise to have the whole "story by:" credit even if it's just an idea with no tangible conflict or resolution outlined?

Good question. Just a guess, but I think a lot might depend on who that person is. If having that person's name attached to a film would benefit it in some way, then they might be more likely to get the credit.

[nmstevens]

Good question. Just a guess, but I think a lot might depend on who that person is. If having that person's name attached to a film would benefit it in some way, then they might be more likely to get the credit.


If you're talking about a guild project, there are very specific guidelines for things like "story" credit and screenplay credit and the guild is also very attentive when any of those who are seeking credit also happen to be either producer or director of the project in question because clearly there is some question of conflict of interest -- which is a nice way of saying that sometimes people who are in a position of authority on a project, like a producer or director, want to hog credit by grabbing screenplay credit that they don't deserve.

That is why, whenever any such credit comes before the guild -- and they always do, long before a movie is released, the credit is *always* subject to guild arbitration.

That is, any time a producer or a director wants to share credit with a screenwriter, the final credit is always determined by the guild.

That would include a "story by" credit -- and if a producer wanted that credit, he would have to produce something in writing -- a treatment, an outline -- an early draft of a screenplay -- something that demonstrated that he was entitled to that credit.

Generally, though, a "story by" credit is something that comes about not when somebody has written a treatment or come up with a premise, but rather when somebody has written a very, very, early draft of a screenplay which has gone through enormous changes between that draft and production, such that you'd hardly recognize the first draft in the final version -- but since that first draft was, in essence, the "engendering" source of the final movie -- but there's virtually nothing of it left on screen -- you end up with a "story by" credit.

However, just to make the point -- it's quite common for a producer to come up with a premise (a number of them have come to me with such premises) -- and essentially said, come back and work out a pitch based on it. And they'll say that to a number of different writers. If someone comes up with a pitch they like, they'll develop the project with them. They'll get paid -- and the producer won't get anything at all, unless the project gets made.

And he won't get any credit. But having developed and paid for the screenplay, he will, obviously, own the property.

NMS