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Jeffrey Pace
10-07-2007, 10:45 PM
The title says it all. Is 4 pages too long for a fiction novel's synopsis?

Thanks

RLSMiller
10-07-2007, 10:54 PM
Single-spaced or double-spaced?

Generally, I would say 4 pages is a tad long, but it depends on the agent or publisher guidelines. Sometimes people will ask for a more detailed synopsis. Still, I think briefer is probably better. I aim for one single-spaced page or 2 to 3 double-spaced pages (no more than 1000 words).

scarletpeaches
10-07-2007, 10:57 PM
I'd say you need to chop half of it out. At least.

maestrowork
10-07-2007, 11:05 PM
Usually under five pages is okay, unless the agent/editor is specific about it. Personally, I'd have a 2-page and a 5-page, just to cover all occasions.

ORION
10-07-2007, 11:06 PM
It depends on who is requesting it. If it's your current editor or agent who wants to know in detail what you plan for your next novel - it may be fine. If you are unagented and it's to accompany a partial or full or go into a query letter it's massively too long.
It's always best to think of a 250 word hook (which some people also call synopses) - think back flap copy. It shouldn't give every single plot line and of course I disagree with many who say you should give away the ending - Your goal is to make the agent or editor request the full.
Check out your genre at a bookstore and read the back or inside flap -
JMHO

Carrie R.
10-08-2007, 12:40 AM
I think I have a different take on it than the other commenters -- I think the purpose of the synopsis is for the agent or editor to get a sense of the story to make sure it doesn't take some sort of turn he or she isn't expecting (ie: aliens land in chapter 6). I've heard time and again from editors and agents that it drives them nuts not to be left hanging -- they want to make sure the ending fits with the book and is satisfying.

I don't think 250 words is nearly enough for the synopsis -- that's more pitch length. A lot of agents will post on their website or blog how long they want the synopsis to be. Some want 1 page, some recommend a page for every 10k words of the novel. Mine was 7 pages double spaced for a 73k novel and I never got any complaints.

After you sell, your synopsis will be used for all sorts of things, but before you sell, it's for the agent to make sure you can plot a story-- that there's enough going on to sustain the novel, etc.

Azraelsbane
10-08-2007, 12:49 AM
I'm with the people who said it depends. :) If an agent is asking for a synopsis, unless it's specifically stated, from what I've read 2-3 pages (double spaced) is what they want. However, if you're submitting to a publisher, especially one like Tor, they sometimes want it more in depth. I know the Tor website says something like 3-10 pages for a synopsis. So in the end, it's best to research what each individual agent/publisher wants. If you can't find anything, and it's a query+synopsis submission, I think shorter is better. If an agent specifically asked for a synopsis, then why not email and ask what length is preferred?

Scrawler
10-08-2007, 01:39 AM
My last synopsis for a 100,000 word MS was 6-pages double-spaced with wide top, bottom and side margins. (Or, 3 single-spaced pages.)

Excluding the personal details, my query letter is about 220 words.

RG570
10-08-2007, 03:17 AM
Okay, I'm a bit confused about a couple of things now.

One, I've always heard that a synopsis is single spaced. This is still correct, right?

Two, some people seem to do this weird ALL CAPS THING WITH NAMES in them. Is this necessary?

a_sharp
10-08-2007, 04:29 AM
Okay, I'm a bit confused about a couple of things now.

One, I've always heard that a synopsis is single spaced. This is still correct, right?

Two, some people seem to do this weird ALL CAPS THING WITH NAMES in them. Is this necessary?

As others have pointed out, line spacing is optional, length should be agent's guidelines or some of the other suggestions here. The examples I've seen in books on the subject have all been single-spaced.

I think NAMES IN ALL CAPS is a carryover from screen scripts. Again, not a requirement, but possibly helpful to the agent as long as you don't introduce too many supporting characters, which is frowned on for synopses anyway.

Jamesaritchie
10-08-2007, 04:38 AM
Unless the agent specifically mentions a shorter length, four pages is fine. Even single spaced, which a synopsis should be.

Take a look at some of the synopses Robert J. Sawyer has posted on his website. You can find four of them here: http://www.sfwriter.com/ouindex.htm

Seriously, as long as you don't go past five pages, and as long as the agent doesn't specifically ask for a shorter length, four pages is well within bounds.

Shadow_Ferret
10-08-2007, 04:42 AM
It depends on who is requesting it. If it's your current editor or agent who wants to know in detail what you plan for your next novel - it may be fine. If you are unagented and it's to accompany a partial or full or go into a query letter it's massively too long.
It's always best to think of a 250 word hook (which some people also call synopses) - think back flap copy. It shouldn't give every single plot line and of course I disagree with many who say you should give away the ending - Your goal is to make the agent or editor request the full.
Check out your genre at a bookstore and read the back or inside flap -
JMHO

OK, I'm confused. If you haven't written the novel yet, wouldn't that be an outline? How can you give a synopsis of something that doesn't exist yet?

And the 250 word hook, wouldn't that be your query statement, not the synopsis?

I'm asking even after all these years, I'm not sure about the terms. You could be right.

Jeffrey Pace
10-08-2007, 05:27 AM
Thanks!!

ORION
10-08-2007, 11:41 AM
Shadow ferret - Yes I can do a synopsis on a novel that hasn't been written yet...Trust me!!!
(I think everyone is dealing in semantics here). You can call it what you like but it is what my agent pitches to my editor. Each case is COMPLETELY different! What unagented and unpublished writers do is specific to what an agent/editor requires in their submission process- The original questioner was not specific
I do not need to query - my 250 word "hook" is what my agent will use to pitch.
I always work on my synopsis, hook and first draft all at the same time, but then I don't write "cold" -- my stories are all in my head. Now of course my hook and synopsis can change - Lottery's synopsis did but the basic hook was always the same and I had that written before I finished the book.

Shadow_Ferret
10-08-2007, 05:30 PM
I certainly hope its NOT semantics. I would hope that synopsis and outline mean specific and different things. As I said, this writing business is confusing enough without having terms that can be exchanged willy-nilly.

Prawn
10-08-2007, 05:50 PM
I don't know if it would help, but PM me and I'll send you mine so you can see a sample.
P

Bufty
10-08-2007, 07:06 PM
Jeffrey, there is no such thing as a fiction novel -a novel is fiction by definition. I found the undernoted response confusing.

In brief, to most folk thinking of submitting their first novel, a Query is what attracts the Agent's attention by stating a protagonist and a predicament -ie., it shows what the story is about, and does not require to give away the ending.

Hopefully the Agent's attention and interest will be secured by the Query and the Agent will then request a Synopsis and sample chapters or the full manuscript -whatever. That Synopsis, be it 2 pages or whatever, reveals what the story is, normally concentrating on the main characters and the main plot thread and must include the ending. And if it helps you get the story across, remember events do not have to be in chronological order. Obviously clarity and brevity count.



Good luck.



Shadow ferret - Yes I can do a synopsis on a novel that hasn't been written yet...Trust me!!!
(I think everyone is dealing in semantics here). You can call it what you like but it is what my agent pitches to my editor. Each case is COMPLETELY different! What unagented and unpublished writers do is specific to what an agent/editor requires in their submission process- The original questioner was not specific
I do not need to query - my 250 word "hook" is what my agent will use to pitch.
I always work on my synopsis, hook and first draft all at the same time, but then I don't write "cold" -- my stories are all in my head. Now of course my hook and synopsis can change - Lottery's synopsis did but the basic hook was always the same and I had that written before I finished the book.

maestrowork
10-08-2007, 07:23 PM
I certainly hope its NOT semantics. I would hope that synopsis and outline mean specific and different things. As I said, this writing business is confusing enough without having terms that can be exchanged willy-nilly.

The "hook" in queries is also called "synopsis." But it's really just a pitch, a premise to whet the agent's appetite.

The real synopsis that an agent asks for in a partial or full is a 1 to 5 page summary of the whole main plot, including the ending. Mine is 2 pages long, but I also have a 5-page just in case the agent asks for a more detailed one.

Jamesaritchie
10-08-2007, 08:37 PM
Unfortunately, many agents consider a synopsis and an outline to be interchangeable. They shouldn't be. A true outline is much, much longer than a synopsis, up to forty or more pages, is usually done chapter by chapter, from one paragraph to one full page for each chapter, and is sent along with three chapters. But when many agents ask for an outline, they mean a synopsis.

Very few even know what a real outline is these days. Generally, pro writers are the wrong ones to ask because I doubt any of us write real outlines. Like Robert J. Sawyer, we write each the same way, maybe one before the novel is written, and a more accurate one after the novel is written, though I think Sawyer reverses the two, compared to the way most of us think of them.

For most pro writers, a synopsis is just an excuse for the publisher to offer a contract. It's written before the novel is, and the novel itself may be almost nothing like what was described in the synopsis.

For new writers, however, the query is used to convince an agent to read a partial or a full manuscript. The synopsis is then often used to convince an editor to read a partial or a full manuscript.

NeuroFizz
10-08-2007, 10:36 PM
I usually write three versions, one with a two-page limit (which is sent out if the agent/editor doesn't specify length), a four or five-pager, and a ~seven pager. I've read requests that wanted the detail of the last one, but they seemed to be unusual. I'd recommend writing two, the two-pager and the middle sized one. It's not the much work (for me anyway) since writing the daft of the two-pager usually comes longer and requires editorial trimming.

Carrie R.
10-08-2007, 10:42 PM
Diana Peterfreund had a couple of really good posts that go through all the industry terms and what they mean, how to use them (i.e. what should be in a query, cover letter, etc). It's a good reference (the part 2 is the glossary):

http://dianapeterfreund.blogspot.com/2007/06/primer-part-one.html
http://dianapeterfreund.blogspot.com/2007/06/primer-part-two-glossary.html

NeuroFizz
10-08-2007, 10:44 PM
Quit looking at me like that! I'm not wearing my kilt.

cate townsend
10-09-2007, 07:42 AM
Three to five pages is a good rule; most times, agents don't specify what length it needs to be, but in my research there are more who prefer shorter synopses. My advice: have a one-pager ready, as well as the 3-5 page one.
Good Luck!

Spiny Norman
10-09-2007, 08:28 AM
Shadow Ferret, your avatar has become about 500% more creepy and morbid since I last saw it.