Crazy plotting advice you've run into

[Ava Jarvis]

The craziest one so far is writing a letter to yourself about what you're working on. It's a variant on the "at some point, separate from your work, start to free-write about aspects of it".

"Outline your novel in 30 minutes (http://www.sff.net/people/alicia/artout.htm)" is another variant, but more structured. And it is quite strange in that it works.

I have never interviewed one of my characters, because that feels too crazy. Does it work for you?

[BuffStuff]

Sure, it does. It's just another 'tool' to use in order to develop more character depth and from that possibly a more involved/tighter constructed plot.

I've even heard of authors renting hotel rooms etc under the name of a protagonist from a current WIP. That's bizzare, perhaps unnecessarily so, but what works for them, works for them.

In cases like this its not so much "does it work or doesn't it" but "does it work for YOU.

[Azraelsbane]

I don't have to interview my characters. They never shut up. If anyone has an exercise to sedate the bastards, I'd love to hear it. No killing though. I don't want to get lonely. :e2bouncey

As for how I plot my novels, it's really different for every one. The series I'm working on, it's the characters running the show, and I have zero outlining done. It's all in my head.

However, I have three ideas shelved until I'm done with the series (and yeah, I know it might not get published, but I'll be much happier when it's written). All those ideas came directly from dreams. I woke up and wrote outlines from beginning to end, then saved them away in word documents for later use.

I agree that different things work for different writers. Personally, I have this crazy purple pen obsession. I order boxes of them at a time, and they're strewn all over the house. If I'm writing my ideas in a notebook, you're damn skippy it's in dark purple ink. And I click the hell out of them while sitting in front of the comp.

[maestrowork]

Ancient Chinese bamboo torture device.

[GerriB]

"Why are you bothering to outline? Just sit down and write!"

*headdesk*

Not organic writer, tyvm.

That is, however, excellent advice for people who find that they don't want to write the story if they've outlined it. I am, however, on the other extreme. I need several steps of outlining in order to get the job done.

Good luck!

[Devil Ledbetter]

I have never interviewed one of my characters, because that feels too crazy. Does it work for you?Yes. And it does feel crazy, but in a really fun way.

[KTC]

I don't think there are any crazy ways to get to the end of the story. Whatever trick or device you use...it's helpful if you're using it. Not crazy. I write diary entries from my characters' povs. That's just one of many. I sometimes just spend time in my characters' heads or picture them following me...haunting me. These are just ways to keep the story alive in my head...keep the momentum going. Not crazy.

[David I]

That is, however, excellent advice for people who find that they don't want to write the story if they've outlined it. I am, however, on the other extreme. I need several steps of outlining in order to get the job done.

I wish I could outline! My problem is that the characters aren't really alive for me until they are on the page, so I can't decide what they will and won't do until I am writing them. And all manner of new things I'd never think of come up during the writing process...

As to the strangest plotting advice I've heard, Mickey Spillane claimed he wrote his novels backwards, beginning with the final chapter, then the penultimate chapter, then the pre-penultimate chapter, and finally chapters 3, 2, and 1. I'm not sure he actually did this, by the way--but it's what he claimed to do.

[PeeDee]

I wish I could outline! My problem is that the characters aren't really alive for me until they are on the page, so I can't decide what they will and won't do until I am writing them. And all manner of new things I'd never think of come up during the writing process...

As to the strangest plotting advice I've heard, Mickey Spillane claimed he wrote his novels backwards, beginning with the final chapter, then the penultimate chapter, then the pre-penultimate chapter, and finally chapters 3, 2, and 1. I'm not sure he actually did this, by the way--but it's what he claimed to do.

I am just learning to use outlines for something other than wasting time. Mostly, it's still useless, for the same reasons you can't outline.

...

Stupidest advice I ever heard, and this is absolutely true:

1) Write the first chapter of someone else's novel into your file.

2) Start Chapter 2 by replacing their characters with yours and beginning your own plot.

!?

[scarletpeaches]

I concentrate on characters more than plot. I've sometimes written character bios/interviews/letters what have you...if I concentrate on the people it makes the story flow far more easily for me.

[David I]

Stupidest advice I ever heard, and this is absolutely true:

1) Write the first chapter of someone else's novel into your file.

2) Start Chapter 2 by replacing their characters with yours and beginning your own plot.

!?

You win. That's dumb in a way that has aspects of genius.

[PeeDee]

I know. It's like some sort of zen koan. I never knew if I should laugh at it, or consider that it might be useful.

So I laughed at it. IT seemed best.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I've never interviewed my characters, but I do create bios for each.Stupidest advice I ever heard, and this is absolutely true:

1) Write the first chapter of someone else's novel into your file.

2) Start Chapter 2 by replacing their characters with yours and beginning your own plot.

!?
Well, I've heard step 1 used as a good exercise to see how your favorite writer crafts. Somehow typing their first few pages gives you all these insights into how they write that you don't necessarily get just reading it. I haven't tried it yet because I'm lazy.

[KTC]

I concentrate on characters more than plot.

me too. Shit. I'm agreeing with the JudasTroll far too often lately!

[scarletpeaches]

Stop agreeing with me, you Moose-abusing Freakaspaz.

[PeeDee]

Well, I've heard step 1 used as a good exercise to see how your favorite writer crafts. Somehow typing their first few pages gives you all these insights into how they write that you don't necessarily get just reading it. I haven't tried it yet because I'm lazy.

Sure, like doing a copy of a favorite artist's painting. It's absolutely useful, and it can be fun. But to pretend their first chapter is yours, then to pretend your second chapter follows it, and then change around the whole thing when you're done to actually be YOUR story.....dur...?

[KTC]

Stop agreeing with me, you Moose-abusing Freakaspaz.

Thank you. I got them at the shoe sale at Foot Locker last week. I'm thrilled that you like them.

[Ava Jarvis]

I've never interviewed my characters, but I do create bios for each.

I do the bios too. Interviewing seems like a very interactive way to free-write. It's just that two of my characters are sociopaths and they scare me.

I mean, if you came up with Hannibal, would you want to interview him?

<shiver>


Well, I've heard step 1 used as a good exercise to see how your favorite writer crafts. Somehow typing their first few pages gives you all these insights into how they write that you don't necessarily get just reading it. I haven't tried it yet because I'm lazy.

I did it for The Speckled Band (must put up the rest of it sooner or later):

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75842

It was very illuminating, moreso than I thought it would be.

The other steps (pretending the characters are yours) ... is really quite questionable...

[AnnieColleen]

I wish I could outline! My problem is that the characters aren't really alive for me until they are on the page, so I can't decide what they will and won't do until I am writing them. And all manner of new things I'd never think of come up during the writing process...

I thought I would have this problem (in all my vast experience of one 3/4 written novel, one partial outline, and a lot of bits and pieces.) The only reason I'm outlining now is because this novel is for NaNo and I'm scared of it! And...it seems to be working. The characters are coming up with cool new insights and twists that contribute to figuring out what happens next. I did do a couple of flash fiction challenge pieces with these characters (that won't be included in the main storyline), so I got a bit of a kick-start that way. And of course NaNo dares are a good way to get moving too... ;)


Oh, and my little brother's one-and-only piece of plotting advice: It needs a big Viking battle. Every time the subject comes up. :rolleyes:

[leenakincaid]

For this novel, I will use outlining as a last resort (and I think I am reaching that point!). I won't write letters to myself about what I am writing since I don't think it'll work. Interviewing my characters would just exaggerate my opinions of them already...but I will figure something out!

[Linda Adams]

The only reason I'm outlining now is because this novel is for NaNo and I'm scared of it! And...it seems to be working. The characters are coming up with cool new insights and twists that contribute to figuring out what happens next.

Plotting is one of my weakest areas, so I'm doing one this time around to help build the story. I've been using the Marshall Plan as a starting point to see if that would help. So far, at least, it hasn't driven me crazy like the index cards did, and it has exposed an area in the story I need to work on more.

[sunandshadow]

I don't see how interviewing a character is any more crazy than writing fiction at all - they're both at base an exercise in trying to imagine someone so vividly that they temporarily seem real to you. A controlled version of the dreaming and daydreaming that we all do instinctively, as well as the important ability to be able to anticipate how mad your friend would be if you 'borrowed' their wallet, and imagine why you would not like to go to jail even though someone left a bus running with the keys in the ignition and wouldn't it be fun to take it for a drive? Imagining is an essential part of healthy human thought, perhaps even the key mental ability which separates us from animals, not to mention the oldest form of entertainment (other than sex). Its only crazy if you forget your characters are characters and start expecting them to show up in the mundane world.

[roger]

I use big sheets of tracing paper to do my plotting. I can map out different layers of the story (using different coloured pens of course) and lay them over one another until I have a confusing, unintelligible mess.

I discovered the system by accident. Anyone is welcome to use it.

[sunandshadow]

Oh I forgot to actually talk about plotting lol. My problem with most plotting techniques is that they assume you know, at least subconsciously, what you want your plot to be. I never do - I usually know who the main characters are, and vaguely what the world is like, but be damned if I have any ideas about what exactly should happen. So I'm looking for a plotting technique which is focused on helping the writer brainstorm and decide a plot, if any such thing exists. And no it can't assume that the writer wants to write about a hero's journey of any variety, I want to write a romance/comedy of manners sort of thing with 4 viewpoint characters and no major nefarious villain.

Edit: amusingly the OP's name, Jarvis, is actually the nave of one of those hero's journey plotting methods, the one used in the program StoryCraft:
http://www.writerspage.com/theory.htm

[MMWyrm]

"Why are you bothering to outline? Just sit down and write!"

*headdesk*

Not organic writer, tyvm.

I get the exact opposite. "If you want to have a plot that makes sense, you NEED to make an outline!"

I tried an outline once - it messed me up completely.

[talps]

I give my MCs email accounts. Often they write me when feeling neglected or poorly defined.

Fortunately, my MCs have not yet emailed each other!

[RedScylla]

I typically don't outline until after I've written the first draft. Then I go back and figure out how to make everything work. Same goes for plotting--whatever spills out goes in the first draft, and then I develop more obstacles for the plot as needed during the outlining phase. (Plus, I don't trust outlining, because it tends to limit my thinking. Sometimes that's good, but other times, it means a character doesn't really get a chance to grow.)

As for interviewing, though...not so much. It's more like I write my characters' life stories and then slice out the section I need for the novel.

[wayndom]

I don't have to interview my characters. They never shut up. If anyone has an exercise to sedate the bastards, I'd love to hear it. No killing though. I don't want to get lonely.


Give them major dental work. A broken jaw wired shut, or maybe just a heavy dose of novacaine that makes them drool all over their Armani suits whenever they try to talk. That'll shut 'em up...

[jenstrikesagain]

Craziest advice I ever got: "All the bad guys in your story are Americans and all the good guys are Latin. You should have at least one Latin bad guy." Crazy because the head bad guy was Spanish and you don't get much more Latin than that.

[Doodlebug]

I typically don't outline until after I've written the first draft. Then I go back and figure out how to make everything work. Same goes for plotting--whatever spills out goes in the first draft, and then I develop more obstacles for the plot as needed during the outlining phase. (Plus, I don't trust outlining, because it tends to limit my thinking. Sometimes that's good, but other times, it means a character doesn't really get a chance to grow.)

As for interviewing, though...not so much. It's more like I write my characters' life stories and then slice out the section I need for the novel.


LOL...that sounds a lot like the way I do things. Start with the basics then work out the kinks. The problem with outlining for me is that once I know how a story is going to work out from beginning to end, it loses its charm. I like not knowing what is going to happen as much as a writer as I do when I'm a reader.

[Danger Jane]

I concentrate on characters more than plot. I've sometimes written character bios/interviews/letters what have you...if I concentrate on the people it makes the story flow far more easily for me.

:D

Iiiii concurrrrrr

[Ava Jarvis]

Heh. It's cool to see all the different approaches people take.

I have been writing letters to myself about the book and the short story that spun off of it. The short story that threatens to be a novel, anyways. The letters have worked oddly well. After all, you come into them with a mind to free-write about the story, which a) removes you from the driver's and high-stress seat, b) schedules some free fun time playing around with concepts for your story, and c) serves as a written thinking record about your story.

In other words, it becomes a looser and more impromptu version of an outline.

I created threads of messages and stored 'em on my GMail account with the appropriate label. Sometimes the exploration in a particular message didn't work, so I dumped it into the trash (without, let's note, emptying it). Sometimes I would reply to the letters with quotes to expound further upon thoughts from the day before.

Crazy, but *very* effective. I ended up fleshing out the main villain, one of his cronies, added another tone of gray to their doings (they are now more along the lines of people on the other side of the board, rather than just evil), added another subplot, gave motivation to three of my minor characters, and gave me insight into one of the attitudes of one of the main characters to the point that the fuzzy climax in the future has suddenly gotten a bit sharper.

And there is more I didn't mention.

Additionally, the ability to throw messages away (or to reply to a message with a quote and a rebuttal to that quote) saved me from one of the worst beginnings you can thrust upon a reader (e.g., the beginning that has nothing to do with anything) and killed the desire to create an extended flashback little by little.

I am currently trying the character interviews. I have one so far. It's been marginally insightful, because you remove the character from the pressures of whatever is going on back there. Open free-writing again. I discovered that my main character has a religious view... that was fun in a way.