Differentiating Multi-POVs

[NicoleMD]

I love reading and writing novels with multiple character POVs. It’s great to be able to see the same world from different perspectives, which I think is just as important as the added plot dimensions they bring to the story.

I notice that my characters’ similes, metaphors, and descriptions are directed around things that interest them, such as a nurse describing a smell as having an antiseptic quality, or a rickety ladder clinging to a wall like a week-old Band-Aid to skin.

So I’m interested in hearing your techniques to differentiate your characters while you’re in their views. Do you use different language? Sentence structures? Do your characters notice different details? What else?

Nicole

[maestrowork]

In my WIP, I have two POV characters: a British girl and an Asian young man. I find myself, when writing from their respective POVs, using different word choices, sentence structures, rhythms, etc. But the differences do not end in the mechanics or descriptions alone -- it's also in thoughts, observations, philosophies, etc. I have to describe the world and what happens through these character's eyes and minds, and they are very different characters with very different backgrounds.

I think as long as you have different characters and you get to know them well, there should not be any problem distinguishing them. It comes naturally, simply because you're seeing the world through these different characters' eyes (and not as an omniscient narrator who has its own world view).

[ChaosTitan]

I notice that my characters’ similes, metaphors, and descriptions are directed around things that interest them, such as a nurse describing a smell as having an antiseptic quality, or a rickety ladder clinging to a wall like a week-old Band-Aid to skin.

This is something I use, as well. A less-educated character won't use fancy words or overdone metaphors during narration. A panhandler will notice details that a wealthy lawyer may not, and vice versa.

If I'm switching POV and every character sounds the same, I've failed. However, I don't want the differences to call attention to themselves. They should just seem natural.

[maestrowork]

This topic begs the question, however:

When you write in 3rd limited, do you write each character's POV in THEIR voice, or do you maintain a consistent narrative voice?

I've seen both, and personally I prefer a consistent narrative voice (3rd limited) or 1st person. I find close 3rd person (where the narrative voice shifts with the POV character) a bit weird.

[ChaosTitan]

This topic begs the question, however:

When you write in 3rd limited, do you write each character's POV in THEIR voice, or do you maintain a consistent narrative voice?

I've seen both, and personally I prefer a consistent narrative voice (3rd limited) or 1st person. I find close 3rd person (where the narrative voice shifts with the POV character) a bit weird.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding terms here, but doesn't writing in 3rd Limited sort of require dipping into the POV character's voice? If the novel is written in one, consistent narrative voice, then it's the author telling the story, not the characters.

*is confused*

[Zelenka]

I generally always use 3rd person limited and I keep to the same narrative voice for each different character. The only exception to that was a book I worked on where there were three different POV characters in three different time periods all moving towards the same general ending. I found the voices became different for each of them.

[NicoleMD]

This topic begs the question, however:

When you write in 3rd limited, do you write each character's POV in THEIR voice, or do you maintain a consistent narrative voice?

I've seen both, and personally I prefer a consistent narrative voice (3rd limited) or 1st person. I find close 3rd person (where the narrative voice shifts with the POV character) a bit weird.

Interesting point. I'd guess it'd be a balance between the narrative voice being too consistent (which may come across boring/unbelievable/unremarkable) or being too different (which may be jarring and come across as contrived or indulgent...though it might work for the right book.)

A few narrative quirks might help add to the character. For instance, some of my characters pray a lot, but only one of them gets the actual words of his prayers written out. I'm not sure that this is a good example, but I'd hope that the reader would identify with this guy as being more spiritual than the others, and better appreciate the desperateness of his pleas.

Nicole

[maestrowork]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding terms here, but doesn't writing in 3rd Limited sort of require dipping into the POV character's voice? If the novel is written in one, consistent narrative voice, then it's the author telling the story, not the characters.

*is confused*

Not necessarily. There is 3rd limited and then there's close 3rd limited. To my knowledge, in 3rd limited there's still a distinct, consistent narrative voice that tells the story through the character's senses (and can dip into the character's mind) but it doesn't have to have the character's voice. The limited really just mean the senses/observations/thoughts/etc. are "limited" to that of the characters -- but that doesn't include the narrative voice.

For example, the narrator could be telling a story through a child's perspective, and the narrator doesn't have to use the child's "voice" or vocabulary -- you can tell it's an "adult" narrator.

In close 3rd limited, it's almost as if the story is told in 1st person, except instead of "I walked" we have "he walked."

My experience is that a lot of stories in 3rd person and multiple POVs tend to have a consistent narrator instead of shifting the narrative voices to the current POV character's. Close 3rd person is more relevant when you're telling a story from one or two POV characters -- it's almost like 1st person without the "I."

I think you're confusing first person with 3rd person. When you're writing in 3rd person limited, I don't think it necessarily means the character is telling the story -- after all, they are not Bob Dole; they don't speak about themselves in 3rd person form. There is still an "invisible" narrator -- it's not the character who is "telling the story" (otherwise, it would be 1st person, right?) but a narrator reporting for the character.

[Judg]

I don't know, Ray, I kind of like it when there is a shift in style as we are looking over different characters' shoulders. I hope others will too, seeing as that's what I'm doing myself...

[maestrowork]

I don't know, Ray, I kind of like it when there is a shift in style as we are looking over different characters' shoulders. I hope others will too, seeing as that's what I'm doing myself...

It's a preference. I prefer a consistent narrative voice. But that's just me.

[Zelenka]

It's a preference. I prefer a consistent narrative voice. But that's just me.

I think it depends on the piece of work too. Some might call for distinct voices to make them work, where others need the consistent voice.

[jodiodi]

I have no idea what I write in except that it's some form of 3rd person.

In my last book, I the heroine was from what we consider a modern American culture while everyone else was from an older, much more formal type. When I wrote from her viewpoint, I used contractions and some modern references. When I wrote from anyone else's viewpoint, I used a more formal tone, no contractions.

[WittyandorIronic]

Not to discourage, but if we are talking preference, I much prefer any version of 3rd person to 1st. I have a really hard time getting into 1st person stories, as "I" am so not doing any of those things, and I would never have worn that ugly dress. :) I will admit, I believe an author has truly struck gold if I get 3/4ths of the way through the book and go, "OMG! It's in 1st person!" I suppose that is the goal of most writers, to make you so engrossed in the plot and the characters that you never give tense, style, or even grammar a second thought. /wistful sigh.

[maestrowork]

I believe an author has truly struck gold if I get 3/4ths of the way through the book and go, "OMG! It's in 1st person!" I suppose that is the goal of most writers, to make you so engrossed in the plot and the characters that you never give tense, style, or even grammar a second thought. /wistful sigh.

Exactly... when the writing becomes transparent and you're so involved in the story you forget you're reading words, that's when the writer is really good. (There are times, of course, when it's all about words -- literally fiction, for example)

[Mud Dauber]

I think you're confusing first person with 3rd person. When you're writing in 3rd person limited, I don't think it necessarily means the character is telling the story -- after all, they are not Bob Dole; they don't speak about themselves in 3rd person form. There is still an "invisible" narrator -- it's not the character who is "telling the story" (otherwise, it would be 1st person, right?) but a narrator reporting for the character.
:cry:I will never understand this. So now you're saying there is not only a third person limited, but a third person limited close? Arrrrgghh!

This is why I'm sticking with first person, 2 POVs on my WIP, b/c this whole voice thing is too confusing for me. I keep hearing how 1st person is so hard to pull off, yet the restriction on the voice is, ironically, liberating. At least I know when I am in the 1st person POV I can tell the story from that particular character's POV. If I tried 3rd person, I'm afraid I would be worrying too much about a new and third voice (the narrator's), plus trying to keep the two character's voices distinct from one another.:crazy:

*insert exorcist/spinning head emoticon here* I think I'm just an idiot and will never get a handle on it...

[Mud Dauber]

In my WIP, I have two POV characters: a British girl and an Asian young man. I find myself, when writing from their respective POVs, using different word choices, sentence structures, rhythms, etc. But the differences do not end in the mechanics or descriptions alone -- it's also in thoughts, observations, philosophies, etc. I have to describe the world and what happens through these character's eyes and minds, and they are very different characters with very different backgrounds.

Are you writing it in 1st person?

[maestrowork]

Are you writing it in 1st person?

No, 3rd person. But I do have a (third person) narrative voice -- it's just that it uses different rhythms or vocabulary for the two different POVs, but it's the same voice, which is a bit lyrical. Does it make sense? The true differences of the two POVs lie in their observations (e.g. the girl notices architecture, the cultural differences, beauty, etc., and the man thinks more about survival, food, killing, etc.), thoughts, philosophies, etc. The Asian man, for example, doesn't speak English that well (and sometimes he only speaks in his native language), but the narrative voice doesn't reflect that... but it doesn't use words that the man wouldn't understand, since the narrator is observing through the character.

[sunna]

I'm a fan of close 3rd limited, myself; I like feeling that I'm getting a different view of the same world by being in a different POV.

So I’m interested in hearing your techniques to differentiate your characters while you’re in their views. Do you use different language? Sentence structures? Do your characters notice different details?

Pretty much all of that. One of my MCs thinks and talks in short, sharp sentences, with a lot of internal commentary scattered throughout conversation and in-the-head analysis. Another strings concepts together in long chains - I think it works well to show the difference in how they think and act: the first tends to shy away from her own thoughts and feelings in favor of practicalities, and the second can easily get lost in over-analyzing things. I hope it works, anyway. :)

[maestrowork]

So now you're saying there is not only a third person limited, but a third person limited close?


I'm a fan of close 3rd limited, myself; I like feeling that I'm getting a different view of the same world by being in a different POV.


"Close" 3rd limited is a popular choice. It's like 1st person but with some distance, so you're not reading about "I" all the time. In essence, however, you are reading "I"s. :)

That's why close 3rd limit seems a bit unnatural to me. Again, it's my preference -- there's nothing inherently wrong with close 3rd limited. I'd rather read real 1st person. With 3rd limited, I prefer more distance. It just feels a bit weird to listen to Bob Dole talking about Bob Dole in Bob Dole's voice. :)

[Mud Dauber]

No, 3rd person. But I do have a (third person) narrative voice -- it's just that it uses different rhythms or vocabulary for the two different POVs, but it's the same voice, which is a bit lyrical. Does it make sense? The true differences of the two POVs lie in their observations (e.g. the girl notices architecture, the cultural differences, beauty, etc., and the man thinks more about survival, food, killing, etc.), thoughts, philosophies, etc. The Asian man, for example, doesn't speak English that well (and sometimes he only speaks in his native language), but the narrative voice doesn't reflect that... but it doesn't use words that the man wouldn't understand, since the narrator is observing through the character.
Thank you for trying to help a lost soul, but honestly, I can't wrap my head around this. How can you use different vocabulary and rhythms yet still be in the same voice? I get what you're saying about their observations, but I don't understand the rest.

Can you recommend books with 3rd person limited, as well as books with 3rd person limited close? What is Harry Potter?

Again, it's pointless to try to explain this to me. I think I have a big mental block for some reason, but maybe reading some books where they use the styles would help. I've tried to read the "how to" books on POV, but hey, look where I'm at... I don't think those have helped me at all.:tongue

[WittyandorIronic]

Something I just realized, but I also use humor as a dividing factor. One character is always sunny natured and cracking jokes, therefore his outlook is much more humorous. Even tense scenes from his POV end more quickly, because he doesn't retain his anger. My female MC who is much more serious and introspective, her scenes are longer with more attention to nuance and how the actions and words of other characters make her feel.

[wordmonkey]

While it is First Person, Nick Hornby does a great job of this in "A Long Way Down."

Comedy about suicide.

I know what you're thinking, but it does work.

Four very different characters. Different language, experiences, voices and outlooks.

[maestrowork]

Can you recommend books with 3rd person limited, as well as books with 3rd person limited close? What is Harry Potter?


Off the top of my head, I can't think of any, especially close 3rd person with multiple POVs. I think the Da Vinci Code is 3rd limited (and not omniscient) but I may be wrong -- it's been a while since I read it.

As far as I can discern, Harry Potter is 3rd limited with a separate narrator (who is not Harry Potter -- more like JK Rowling herself). I haven't read all her books yet but I think Rowling stayed with Harry's POV most of the time, but the story was not told in Harry's voice, I don't think.

Most books I read are either in 3rd limited or 1st person. I really can't recall any close 3rd limited... will have to get back to you.

[Doodlebug]

I notice that my characters’ similes, metaphors, and descriptions are directed around things that interest them, such as a nurse describing a smell as having an antiseptic quality, or a rickety ladder clinging to a wall like a week-old Band-Aid to skin.

I think that is very perceptive on your part! I'm always afraid that my characters blend in too much with eachother.

[sunna]

It just feels a bit weird to listen to Bob Dole talking about Bob Dole in Bob Dole's voice. :)

Sheesh, now I'm going to be thinking about that when I read close 3rd. Aigh!

Can you recommend books with 3rd person limited, as well as books with 3rd person limited close?

CJ Cherryh is known for it. Try her Fortress series, which has two main POVs - very, very different voices. Or Cyteen, which has 1 main POV, 1 close runner-up, and a few other POVs scattered throughout: the differences between them are fascinating.

Of course, I'm a rabid foaming-at-the-mouth-type Cherryh fan. There are plenty of other authors who write in close 3rd to read. :)

[Nateskate]

Singular point of view wouldn't work in my novels. In a sense, it's like LOTR, in that you have multiple story lines taking place at once.

But in a sense, I don't find this taxing. It's actually somewhat of a playground where I have to mentally play their parts, and get into character in order to write in their voice.

Everyone has a unique voice and I'm forced to know my characters inside and out. And in some ways it's like writing a screenplay, where you have to visualize the characters, their facial expressions.

My story also has changing tones in each one's POV, as they are growing, like when Gimli and Legolas move from being enemies to close friends.

The Imps and Whisperers in my story are sheer evil. There are chapters where they interact; and so, their voice is only motivated by greed, hate, fear, and pride, and their particular place in the pecking order. So the one on top is always seeking to rub-in the others failings, gloating. The ones on the bottom are trying to undermine and topple their bosses.

The Sorcerer Prince is never motivated by fear, but only sheer arrogance, because he fears nothing. His wisdom and power are unmatched in his realm- as he can manipulate any substance except the light of Rainkasa- Because he knows that he has no peers, and is convinced he can outwit any of his foes, he is brash whenever challenged. And throughout the story, he is constantly doing the unexpected, which keeps his peers (who hate him) in check, because they can't anticipate the bounds of his powers. In a sense, there is a constant tension between him and the Fiernyaka (Fire Lords) and Wanyaka (Wind Lords), who are the most powerful of their kind. They have forged an alliance, but a fragile one.

The fun part is trying to comprehend the inner workings of the Dark Alliance (which has a name) is that it is held together by interwoven fears, anger, hatred, jealousy and all maliciousness without any love or loyalty whatsoever. Whoever is most powerful lords that power over their minions.

[FennelGiraffe]

Another way to bring out the difference is with the order you mention sensory impressions. If a char is auditory, s/he would notice sounds first and get to the other senses later. A visual char might notice colors or shapes first and a tactile char would be very aware of textures.

Looking at learning styles can suggest more possibilities. For example, someone who is primarily kinesthetic will probably react differently than someone who is strongly verbal. Under stress, does your char punch the wall, curse, or cry? Go off somewhere alone or get together with friends? Make an emotional decision or analyze the situation logically? Of course, that has more to do with what happens than with narrative voice, but it can also show up in the metaphors[1] you use while in that POV.

[1] Meaning the the broader cognitive psychology sense of metaphor, not the narrow literary analysis sense.

[BL_Garver]

Can you recommend books with 3rd person limited, as well as books with 3rd person limited close? What is Harry Potter?


Check out Stephen King's The Dark Tower series. They span several different characters and are in 3rd person, and the tone of each POV is greatly colored by each character, yet the narrative is still unmistakeably the same voice - that signature style of Stephen King.

[NicoleMD]

The Imps and Whisperers in my story are sheer evil. There are chapters where they interact; and so, their voice is only motivated by greed, hate, fear, and pride, and their particular place in the pecking order. So the one on top is always seeking to rub-in the others failings, gloating. The ones on the bottom are trying to undermine and topple their bosses.

The Sorcerer Prince is never motivated by fear, but only sheer arrogance, because he fears nothing. His wisdom and power are unmatched in his realm- as he can manipulate any substance except the light of Rainkasa- Because he knows that he has no peers, and is convinced he can outwit any of his foes, he is brash whenever challenged. And throughout the story, he is constantly doing the unexpected, which keeps his peers (who hate him) in check, because they can't anticipate the bounds of his powers. In a sense, there is a constant tension between him and the Fiernyaka (Fire Lords) and Wanyaka (Wind Lords), who are the most powerful of their kind. They have forged an alliance, but a fragile one.



I like that you use motivations to differentiate your POVs. Characters should all have their own motivations anyway, but verbilizing it like this makes it clearer and more practical.

Nicole

[maestrowork]

I like that you use motivations to differentiate your POVs. Characters should all have their own motivations anyway, but verbilizing it like this makes it clearer and more practical.

Nicole

But why do you have to do anything with the tone/voice/style? I mean by showing the character's thoughts, action, and observations, don't we already show the differences of the characters by way of their development (providing your characters are different and not just cardboard cutouts)? I still don't see how it's necessary to change your narrative to match the character.

[Judg]

I find it a bit weird that we're talking about a close perspective as if the entire book has to be written that way. Very strange. Generally speaking, you zoom in and out as required. Sometimes in 3rd limited, you're just seeing what the character sees, at other times you drop right down into his thoughts.

When I am doing a scene from the perspective of my antagonist, particularly later in the story, I stay very close to his thoughts. He's highly manipulative, almost sociopathic, so he makes himself look good. But his thoughts reveal how consciously he is playing the people around him, and the depth of his contempt for them. So for him I keep it close almost all the time. For the others, I drop down into their thoughts only if there's a particularly good reason to do so.

I think that in any book that uses 3rd person limited, either from a single or multiple viewpoints, you are going to find that the author zooms in and out, depending on the needs of the moment.

[J. R. Tomlin]

I love reading and writing novels with multiple character POVs. It’s great to be able to see the same world from different perspectives, which I think is just as important as the added plot dimensions they bring to the story.

I notice that my characters’ similes, metaphors, and descriptions are directed around things that interest them, such as a nurse describing a smell as having an antiseptic quality, or a rickety ladder clinging to a wall like a week-old Band-Aid to skin.

So I’m interested in hearing your techniques to differentiate your characters while you’re in their views. Do you use different language? Sentence structures? Do your characters notice different details? What else?

Nicole
My technique is that my characters simply sound different because they are. When I hear them in my head they never sound the same and they have pretty unique voices even once it's translated to paper. But I write pretty consistently in close 3rd.