Using Lulu for family copies - good/bad idea?

[JoNightshade]

So I haven't even found an agent for my book yet, but I'd like to give the manuscript to some of my relatives as a Christmas present. I figure the easiest way to do this is Lulu.com. I've used them for a project at work so I know the quality is good, etc.

Now, I have no intention of self pubbing, but I might make it available on Lulu's site for my extended family and friends to purchase if they so choose. And maybe make a few bucks in doing so.

Is this going to hurt me? If, say, my aunt loans a copy to her friend who loans it to a friend and it ends up drifting around somewhere...

Is that bad, or is this Not a Big Deal?

I guess what I'm wondering is, how tightly do I have to control the distribution of my book so that it is not seen as self-publishing?

[Selcaby]

As far as I know it's not a problem as long as you pick the option where your book isn't listed in Lulu's catalogue (or on Amazon or anywhere else). In that case I don't see the moral difference between Lulu and printing out copies of your MS at your local print shop and passing on the printing costs to the people you give the copies to. Unpublished writing doesn't have to be secret. As far as I know the problems with self-published books, from a publisher's point of view, are that there might be a legal problem with the rights, and that the book has probably proved itself unable to sell, or that the target market has already bought all the copies it wants. If the target market for your book isn't your family and friends, they're irrelevant - a drop in the bucket of potential readers.

You can always remove your book from Lulu if a publisher or agent gets interested, anyway.

[sanssouci]

I think it's okay so long as you don't submit it to an agent or publisher already in book form. There was a blog post about that on BookEnds today.

[jst5150]

There's an option on Lulu where you can keep the publishing private (just for you). And don't get an ISBN for it. That should do the trick.

jt

[JoNightshade]

Thanks guys! My paranoia is soothed. :)

[Arkie]

I locally printed three books last Christmas that I gave away as stocking stuffers. I produced my own cover (an antique photo) appropriate for the title and period of the book. I like working with local people because you can get right in the shop and work out any kinks. If done right, you can put that book on any shelf and it will look right at home.

[Devil Ledbetter]

Thanks for asking this, Jo. If my dear, sweet, wonderful and entirely too elusive crit partner ever gets around to reviewing my last two revised chapters, I'm Luluing mine for the beta readers.

I hadn't thought about Christmas gifts, but it's not a bad idea.

[astonwest]

...I'm Luluing mine for the beta readers.Is that cheaper than just going down to Kinko's or any other office supply company?

[JoNightshade]

Is that cheaper than just going down to Kinko's or any other office supply company?

Depending on what size you get and how many pages, your basic paperback from Lulu will cost between six and twelve bucks. It also looks a heck of a lot better than just getting all your printed 8.5x11 pages bound together. (I've used lulu for a project at work.)

[jst5150]

Is that cheaper than just going down to Kinko's or any other office supply company?
Based on the quality of the book received and the timing, YES. WAY. TUH-UH-UH-OHTALLY. :-)

[JoNightshade]

Totally sidetracking my own topic here, but I'm doing my manuscript as a 6x9" size (that's about trade paperback size) with .5 margins and size 12 font. And it's 367 pages. Which is so weird. To me, that's a long book. If it were standard paperback size it would probably top 400. And yet it doesn't SEEM like a long book to me. It's not really dense, and I do have a complex plot but it takes place over a relatively short period of time. I have also cut down my prose so it's as spare as can be. It's not an epic or anything like that. And it's STILL THIS LONG. I'm sitting here thinking, holy crud, I WROTE this? :)

[astonwest]

For my beta readers, I usually just get a copy made and bound at Kinko's. For beta readers, I don't go for how the product looks on the outside.

[a_sharp]

Totally sidetracking my own topic here, but I'm doing my manuscript as a 6x9" size (that's about trade paperback size) with .5 margins and size 12 font. And it's 367 pages. Which is so weird. To me, that's a long book. If it were standard paperback size it would probably top 400. And yet it doesn't SEEM like a long book to me. It's not really dense, and I do have a complex plot but it takes place over a relatively short period of time. I have also cut down my prose so it's as spare as can be. It's not an epic or anything like that. And it's STILL THIS LONG. I'm sitting here thinking, holy crud, I WROTE this? :)

Jo, that isn't long, really. I just picked up one of the four books I'm reading now, a hardback non-fiction account that reads like a novel. At page 367 it's about an inch thick. Looks, feels, and reads like...average. You done good, sez me.

[Susan B]

I'd been wondering about this too, for giving review copies to people prior to publication. Sounds like Lulu is cheaper than printing at many of the copy places, or printing yourself.

Is it hard to format?

[ORION]

The thing I like about using 8 x 11.5 at a "kinkos" type store and having it bound is so there's more room to write in the margins. My betas tend to scribble lots of notes- especially if it's an earlier draft.
If it's just gifts for family then I guess that's different...

[JoNightshade]

Jo, that isn't long, really. I just picked up one of the four books I'm reading now, a hardback non-fiction account that reads like a novel. At page 367 it's about an inch thick. Looks, feels, and reads like...average. You done good, sez me.

You know, I just pulled some books off of my shelf and looked. You are right. I'm average! Hooray! :)

I'm having fun photoshopping a cover for myself now. Even if only a couple of people will see it, I am reluctant to choose one of the standard Lulu covers. :)

[Garpy]

Lulu was great for me. I had printed a dozen copies of an old book I never managed to get published and gave it out to friends family and beta readers. It looked fantastic, every bit like the finished thing....and actually looked more professional than some store-stocked books I've picked up recently.

Definately P-shop your own cover though, if you have a talent for it. There's nothing looks more amateur than a cover made from stock images/fonts and design templates.

[GeorgieB]

The thing I like about using 8 x 11.5 at a "kinkos" type store and having it bound is so there's more room to write in the margins. My betas tend to scribble lots of notes- especially if it's an earlier draft.

I'm considering doing the same thing through LuLu, they have a printing option for a larger paper size and spiral binding. I've not priced it and compared it to a local print shop, yet. I like the idea of having room to add notes and such. Maybe for my NaNo effort this year.

[JoNightshade]

Here's my photoshopped cover. I'm totally an amateur, but whatcha think? It's not too bad, right? Please ignore my blotted out name... not planning on revealing my TRUE IDENTITY to the community at large until my books are on the shelves. :)

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd9/JoNightshade/BookCoverMergenoname.jpg

[a_sharp]

That's a great cover idea. I do the same for my books as inspiration, even though they'll never get used if I'm published. Where did you get the English manse, or is it a composite?

[Kryianna]

GeorgieB--the last few years LuLu has done a special promotion where NaNo winners could get a free copy of their book. I used that last year to make a one-off Christmas present for my sister. I haven't heard if LuLu will be offering it again this year; watch the "Marketing, self-promotion and stuff for sale" forum on the nano boards for a post from them.

[Soccer Mom]

Looks fab. I may do LuLu for some children's stories I wrote just for family and have no intent of publishing. That's a great idea for stocking stuffers.

[James D. Macdonald]

Using Lulu to print up Not For Sale reading copies for family/friends/beta readers isn't a bad use of the tech.

Making them generally available for sale could use up your first print rights.

[JoNightshade]

That's a great cover idea. I do the same for my books as inspiration, even though they'll never get used if I'm published. Where did you get the English manse, or is it a composite?

I ripped it from here:

http://www.vintage-views.com/eshop/catalog/BAYNARDS-PARK-AND-HOUSE-FROM-THE-ROSE-GARDEN-1914-VINTAGE-COL-p-16189.html

I won't tell you where I got the dude in the suit... I plucked him out of a painting which is otherwise rather lewd!!!

The fun thing about just doing this for family is that I don't have to get permission to use anything. :)

[Susan B]

The thing I like about using 8 x 11.5 at a "kinkos" type store and having it bound is so there's more room to write in the margins. My betas tend to scribble lots of notes- especially if it's an earlier draft.
If it's just gifts for family then I guess that's different...

That makes more sense as the format to use for "beta readers" or pre-publication review, to allow room for comments. It also eliminates the possibility of any confusion that this was a book for distribution. Orion, did you put in a page with some kind of disclaimer (not for publication) or say anything about it's being pre-publication?

I did a family project using that bound 8x11 format at a Kinko's-type place a couple years ago. Made copies of some short stories my late father had written and tried to publish around 1950, along with copies of correspondence about them--ie, rejection letters from "glossy" magazines. Gave them to family for Christmas.

(In a strange irony, my father decided to stop trying to write and publish and instead be a "responsible adult" not long after his initial rejections. My mom wanted to start a family--so I came along!)

[David I]

I've always done bound double-sided 8 1/2 x 11 for my betas, but the Lulu option is intriguing...

As Orion points out, manuscript form allows readers to scribble. But the truth of the matter is, I don't think readers read as well with a pen clutched in their hands; the truth is, I'd rather they read the damn thing and then gave me their feelings on the larger issues.

I guess the response I really want from my first readers is Reader-Novel more than Editor-Manuscript. Lulu-ing (izzat a legal verb?) the book might help with that.

[gp101]

I'm having fun photoshopping a cover for myself now. Even if only a couple of people will see it, I am reluctant to choose one of the standard Lulu covers. :)

The funny thing about this, if the gods look kindly upon you and your novel strikes gold through the traditional publishing route, then these few LuLu copies might wind up as prized collectables. I think it was Grisham's first book, right before THE FIRM, that sold less than 10,000 copies, but he signed a few of them. After he became Mr. Big and Famous Author, those signed copies of his go-nowhere first novel were highly sought after by collectors. It may have been somebody other than Grisham, but I'm sure it happened to one of the breakout authors of the late 80s/early 90s.

So save a LuLU copy for yourself. Ebay awaits you.

[David I]

The funny thing about this, if the gods look kindly upon you and your novel strikes gold through the traditional publishing route, then these few LuLu copies might wind up as prized collectables.

Yeah...if you could guarantee that it was the original and no more were being printed. POD technology offers some challenges to collectibility!

[ORION]

Susan I didn't put anything about anything just the front title set up as a manuscript page with my name and address on it & month and year and then the rest of the book- Now I have my agents name and address on the front copy and also the date and year - that's so I know which version I am looking at (I save them in my computer the same way) I've talked to my agent at length about this and she whole heartedly approves..