Formatting POV changes and Chapter Breaks

[Monkey]

I'm playing free and loose with the formatting of my NaNo manuscript, but I've noticed something that might be a problem later.

I have two very different kinds of scene breaks, and they just aren't interchangeable. First, I have the scene breaks that happen due to the passage of time:

They did lots of cool stuff

SCENE BREAK

Later that night, they chatted before going to bed.


Second, I have the POV scene breaks:

Character A did some stuff

SCENE BREAK

Meanwhile, Character B was doing something entirely different.


As I write, I've been denoting the first type of break with a pound sign and the second kind with an asterix. It really is important to the clarity of the piece to have two distinct kinds of breaks. How can I do this in a way that will fly with agents? (After editing, revising, ect, of course.)

I'm sure this is a newb question, but I've never come across this issue before, so...

[Judg]

I'm having trouble believing that it matters. Readers aren't going to pay attention to details like that.

If an editor finds it necessary to make the distinction, he/she will let you know in due time. In the meanwhile, worry about the words.

[Ziljon]

Hey Monkey, I use the same paragraph break for both of those instances (mine is a triple pound ### centered on the page).

It seems to me that if it's not clear from the first sentence after the break what kind of a break it was, i.e.,
###
Hugo, swirling in his vile tonic, thought they were acting retarded. (POV)

or

###
The meal took much longer than they expected. By the time it was over, Hugo, swirling in his vile tonic, was almost catatonic. (TIME)

then you have some problems. So, personally, I don't think you should change up the paragraph break markers. But if you really had to, I'd use a triple tilde instead of the asterix.

not ***
but ~~~

Good luck.

[Monkey]

Thanks, guys.

You're right.

While there is a definite difference in the kind of breaks I'm looking for, it really is pretty obvious what kind of break it is once you read the first sentence.

Marking the different kind of breaks is helpful to me as I write this thing, but it probably won't be important at all to the readers...so why in the world does it feel so important?

Ah, well. I bow to your superior wisdom in this. :)

[NicoleMD]

For passage of time breaks, I just drop down a line. For POV changes, I do the triple asterix, but I like the tildes now that you mention it...

Nicole

[maestrowork]

Just a line break is adequate. A line break/space is denoted by a single #.

[job]

One hashmark # centered on the page, is the proofreader symbol that tells the typesetter to leave an extra line space in the printed book.

(You will find a list of proofreader marks in the back of your dictionary, most likely, and in many places on the net.)

An extra line space can be used to show a scene break occurring within a chapter.

We mark the extra line space in the manuscript with a # , rather than just leaving the space, because the extra space might escape notice if it came in first or last place on a page.

You can use just about any symbol to show you want a line space at that point.
The editor will know what you mean.

When the ms goes to the proofreader she will delete your symbol and insert a hashmark for the typesetter.

[David I]

You are right that you have two different reasons for breaking, but the formatting is the same.

Letting the reader know which kind of break they have just jumped across is the job of the writing itself. If you change POVs, then the most important thing to do is get the reader rooted in the new POV as fast as possible--in the first line if you can.

This isn't hard, but it's important. If you don't establish the switch right away, the reader will usually interpret everything in the old POV...until they are jarred by a big WTF moment lower on the page.

[Monkey]

Thanks, everyone.

I really feel kind of silly; my first two novels both had these two distinctive types of breaks and it never seemed to be an issue.

I guess it's just that this is shaping up as a Middle-Grade, and I'm really shooting for clarity in everything that I do. That focus on clarity is why it seemed so important that the reader know right away what sort of break was occuring. But you guys are right: my writing has to make that clear. I can't rely on symbols, and if I did, it would leave my writing weaker overall.

[burgy61]

Hello folks, I'm wondering if someone can explain more about breaking to me. I'm still trying to learn this writing thing and am a little confused about it. When I write I don't use any line breaks, is that wrong?

Thanks,:)

[maestrowork]

Hello folks, I'm wondering if someone can explain more about breaking to me. I'm still trying to learn this writing thing and am a little confused about it. When I write I don't use any line breaks, is that wrong?

Thanks,:)

Normally you write through without any line breaks (or "spaces"). There should be no space between paragraphs. New paragraphs should be indented.

There are times when you do need a space to denote a break. A break can be a scene break (scene A has ended, and now scene B starts) or a POV switch (whether or not you're in the same scene). A line break/space is denoted by a single hash sign: #.


Chapter breaks are different. A new chapter should start on a new page, about 1/3 page down, either with a chapter number or a title (or both).

[Monkey]

You can use chapter breaks when you want to shift from one POV to another or to denote the passage of time, but in a book with a lot of such shifts, things flow better with a line break.

So, basically, it depends on the book. A book that is written entirely from the first person POV could probably avoid line breaks pretty easily. A book with four main characters and a story that jumps back and forth between them is going to need some line breaks.

The story that I'm telling is Middle Grade, so too many POV's is a problem, and yet I have several major characters: Karen and Colby, two kids from our world; Hugo, a homunculus; Drem, Hugo's wizard who is pursuing Hugo in order to kill him; and Kint, Drem's arch enemy who has followed him into our world.

The story is complicated, but I have to make it easy for an eleven-year-old who is not at the top of their class to read. Line breaks are one tool that I'm using.

[burgy61]

Thanks maestrowork, and Monkey that explains it nicely.

What would be a normal indent for paragraphs?

[FennelGiraffe]

Hello folks, I'm wondering if someone can explain more about breaking to me. I'm still trying to learn this writing thing and am a little confused about it. When I write I don't use any line breaks, is that wrong?

Grab a published novel off your bookshelf. Flip through the pages until you see an extra blank line between paragraphs.

That's a scene break. In the published book it's a blank line unless it comes at the very end of a page--then there's three asterisks (sometimes a different symbol) centered on the line. In a manuscript, however, you use a single hash mark (#) on a line by itself, no matter whether you're at the bottom of a page or in the middle of a page.

Read a few paragraphs just before and just after that blank line. You'll notice the action jumps abruptly from one scene to the other. Maybe there's some elapsed time; maybe a POV shift; maybe a location change. It's something like a chapter break, only less.

Most of the time you'll transition between scenes without stopping. If the action flows smoothly, you probably can't even point to one specific paragraph to say the previous one belonged to the previous scene and this one starts a new scene. They just blend. Then you don't need a scene break. You go on from one paragraph to the next as usual.

What would be a normal indent for paragraphs?A half inch.