King's Way

[Akuma]

Stephen King once said, "Read four hours a day and write four hours a day. If you cannot find the time for that, you can't expect to become a good writer."

I don't doubt eight hours of reading and writing a day will hone some definite skill, but is this realistic as a plan towards becoming a writer?

Sure, the difference between writers and normal people is that writers make the time to write, but eight hours is nothing to sneeze at.

Therefore, it might be inferred that if you don't read four hours a day and write four hours a day, you will never become a good writer.

Thoughts?

[otterman]

That's unrealistic. I'm sure King had a day job once (hey, many think he should go back to it) and I bet he wasn't always able to put that much time into his craft. Sounds like he's just trying to scare the competition. Privilege makes people say stupid things. Work as hard as you can and do the best you can with the time you have. If your heart's in it, you'll reach your potential.

[WriterInChains]

When I went to King's lecture in '06, he said when he wrote On Writing he wasn't in a very kind frame of mind, & it would be a different book if he wrote it again (heavily paraphrased). So, I'd take anything that sounds questionable to you & chalk it up to that. I doubt kindly Uncle Stevie would want to discourage every aspiring writer. :D

[josephwise]

It hasn't worked for him. Ouch.

In all seriousness, though, I'm certain there are many great writers who never once spent anywhere near that much time, on any given day, doing either.

[Shady Lane]

If I spent 8 hours a day struggling to hone my craft, I wouldn't have nearly enough time for the weird little things that ACTUALLY hone my craft.

Wandering through malls on Friday nights.
Reading the backs of cereal boxes.
Learning about thermal energy and realizes how metaphorical it all is.
Living the high school pecking order I write about so much.
I get inspiration in movie theaters.


I need the time.

[Sassee]

Hmm. 4 hours at work writing. easily 4 hours in the evening left for reading (since I can't seem to concentrate on writing at home).

I think I could manage that ;)

Seriously though, even if it isn't 8 hours a day, ANY regular period of time spent working to improve yourself would be fine. As long as you keep at it the timeframe doesn't matter.

[Rolling Thunder]

The stories that need to be written are out there: wandering about, around us. Reading is a sound expenditure of time but -living- is a much better method to use if you want to learn how to make a story come to life.

I think King meant well, even if he wasn't in a kinder frame of mind. But what works for him doesn't necessarily work for all.

[MidnightMuse]

If your name is Stephen King, this will work for you. If it isn't - it probably won't. There's no magic bullet, just advice from those who have gone before us.

We all load our own guns.

[Storm Dream]

If you're a howlingly successful writer and have time to hang out and read and write for eight hours a day, go right ahead.

I can write at work, since there's a computer, but I get funny looks if I bust out a book, even at lunch (then again, I doubt most of my coworkers read). I love reading, but there are very, very few books I will sit and read for four hours straight, if only because eventually my eyes need a break.

Day jobs can kinda suck sometimes.

[kristie911]

Let's see...12 hours of real work. 8 hours of writing related work. 4 hours of sleep.

s Yep, works for me. s

[Dustry Joe]

Well, I find it pretty hard to write for more than 4 hours a day. Unless I'm very hot on the trail of something...which doesn't last all that long.

I don't know why there'd be a time set for reading, but I think most writers read that much.

[preyer]

i think king's best advice should be, 'don't use a pen name unless you need your ego's ass kicked.'

i wouldn't feed his comment to my neighbour's dog. and i hate my neighbour's dog. having never read the thing -- and proud to say i have no intention on ever reading it -- i have to wonder how many would take it to heart like they do were it written by 'anonymous.'

if your aspiration is to be as good as king, i think it'll take a lot more than eight hours a day. ...if you're fourteen.

[preyer]

joe, do you really think most of us with families and regular jobs read four hours a day? lol. i'll admit it, i haven't actually finished reading a novel in years. i can't find one worthy of my time off the shelf, so i certainly don't want to be influenced by *that* stuff.

i'll say this, too: once you know how to write, reading a thousand extra books isn't likely to improve your skillz significantly. you may find inspiration and ideas worth lifting, but there's a point, imo, where excessive reading (and, yeah, i'd call 28 hours a week on the excessive side) isn't justified as a method of improving.

storm, ever try to write at work? that's fun. not really. i love how people come up and interrupt while i'm trying to do something else as if they're doing me a favour by keeping me company. i mean, i must be writing because i'm bored, right? right?

[Ravenlocks]

The stories that need to be written are out there: wandering about, around us. Reading is a sound expenditure of time but -living- is a much better method to use if you want to learn how to make a story come to life.

Am I gonna get in trouble for disagreeing with a mod?

:D

I don't think four hours of reading per day is realistic for an adult with a life, but I do think that reading is at least as important as living if you're trying to learn how to tell a story well. Life may provide the story and its details, but through reading a writer absorbs the technical skills they need to tell the story in writing. You see how other people did it, and that's invaluable. I think beginning writers should probably be doing as much reading as writing, maybe more, unless they've already got a very solid reading background.

[PeeDee]

I never understand the threads that go "So And So said this...however, hem hem, chiz and wit, I believe this is faulty advice and shall not use it viz-a-viz, it's impracticality." Sort of like that thread from awhile ago that went "I heard someone say you have to write one million words before you start writing good material...I don't believe I have to write a million words, I bet some only do five hundred thousand," etc, etc.

Just don't get it.

I'd be curious to see where that particular Stephen King quote came from, by the way, because that's a new one on me. I've heard him say that you have to read a lot and write a lot, and there's no way around those two things if you want to be a writer...but I've never heard him claim that you have to put in XX hours on each. In fact, he talks -- in On Writing -- about writing when you can, in the spare moments, if you have to. And then he goes on to talk about Anthony Trollop, who wrote for two hours every morning before work, and he did not say "Hem, hem, Mister Trollop was Not A Writer Indeed."

[kuwisdelu]

I never understand the threads that go "So And So said this...however, hem hem, chiz and wit, I believe this is faulty advice and shall not use it viz-a-viz, it's impracticality." Sort of like that thread from awhile ago that went "I heard someone say you have to write one million words before you start writing good material...I don't believe I have to write a million words, I bet some only do five hundred thousand," etc, etc.

Just don't get it.


I agree with you to an extent, PeeDee. I think everything you'd said above is exactly correct. However, I think that--while listening to important writers about such things word-for-word is rather dumb--that the essence of their statements tend to apply. Simply remove the numbers from their advice, and we have good ideas that all aspiring writers should follow.

E.g. "Every writer writes a million words of crap before you can begin to write good stuff"


A million? Maybe, maybe not. Five hundred thousand? Why are we bothering with numbers. The essence of this statement is simply that there'll always be a learning curve with writing, just like with most things. You have to let yourself suck for a while, and give yourself a chance to just write as practice before you begin to get good. Now obviously, for most writers, how much crap you write will differ, and for most it will not be exactly be a million words, but for a while you will suck. Then you'll see improvement. I don't think any of us started out as F. Scott Fitzgerald off-the-bat. And any writer who thinks he or she can needs a whack on the head.

E.g. "To succeed as a writer, you must commit at least four hours a day to reading, and four hours a day to writing.

I may not like or respect King as much as lots of other writers, and the numbers in his statement are nothing but bollocks, but the essence of what he's saying is completely right. Any beginning writing should consider reading at least as important as writing when trying to improve, and any beginning writer needs to actually find some time to do both. Improvement doesn't happen magically--you need to make the time for it; and the two most important elements are writing itself, and reading. That's the bare bones of what King said, and I don't
think any of us can disagree with that. Just ignore the bogus numbers.

[PeeDee]

Exactly right. And what I'm questioning is the quotation itself. I have heard him say "read a lot and write a lot," plenty of times. I dont' believe the numbers, by which I mean, I don't believe King himself said those numbers.

[Akuma]

Exactly right. And what I'm questioning is the quotation itself. I have heard him say "read a lot and write a lot," plenty of times. I dont' believe the numbers, by which I mean, I don't believe King himself said those numbers.

I keep getting the source that it's from On Writing, although no one bothers citing page numbers any more so I'm having trouble finding that, unfortunately. Lo siento and etc..

As for not understanding these threads. . .calm down. Just making chat here.

[Rolling Thunder]

I googled Read four hours a day and write four hours a day and found some hits that attribute it to King, but I'd have to go back and read his book to be sure if it is an actual wording.

I'm thinking the 'toolbox' section of the book is the best place to start.

[CheshireCat]

Pardon me while I rant.

That's unrealistic. I'm sure King had a day job once (hey, many think he should go back to it) and I bet he wasn't always able to put that much time into his craft. Sounds like he's just trying to scare the competition. Privilege makes people say stupid things. Work as hard as you can and do the best you can with the time you have. If your heart's in it, you'll reach your potential.

Scare the competition? You do know that's bullshit, right? And just what "privilege" are you referring to? The fact that he worked his ass off and wrote his ass off and has been at or near the top of his profession for about thirty years? That privilege? Yeah, he had a day job. He was a teacher. With a young family. Living in a trailer. Too broke to buy groceries poor. Writing his ass off every chance he got.

Oh, yeah, sounds like privilege to me.

It hasn't worked for him. Ouch.

In all seriousness, though, I'm certain there are many great writers who never once spent anywhere near that much time, on any given day, doing either.

It never ceases to amaze me how many aspiring writers regularly trash those who succeed in this industry. It's in those moments that I call myself a masochist for spending time and energy trying to help out those farther down the ladder or, hell, still trying to climb aboard.

Trying to help out my (theoretical) future competition. I'm a moron, obviously.

As to your second "point," I'll only say that every single successful writer I've ever known has been a voracious reader, and most of us deeply, sincerely grieve the fact that a full-time writing career (like any other full-time career) doesn't leave us nearly as much time as we'd like to read more.

But it's cool. You read just as much or as little as you like. And write as much or as little as you like.

If your name is Stephen King, this will work for you. If it isn't - it probably won't. There's no magic bullet, just advice from those who have gone before us.

We all load our own guns.

Definitely. No matter how much advice one gets, the path of a writer is individual and solitary.

If you're a howlingly successful writer and have time to hang out and read and write for eight hours a day, go right ahead.

I can write at work, since there's a computer, but I get funny looks if I bust out a book, even at lunch (then again, I doubt most of my coworkers read). I love reading, but there are very, very few books I will sit and read for four hours straight, if only because eventually my eyes need a break.

Day jobs can kinda suck sometimes.

Again, there's that bitter resentment of "howlingly successful" writers -- despite the fact that we successful writers had to pay our dues and put in soul-deadening time in non-writing jobs to put food on the table while we struggled to learn our craft.

Yeah, day jobs suck. Back in the day, mine didn't even offer a computer -- just very loud, filthy, hot textile machines.

Pardon me while I weep for you.

I don't think four hours of reading per day is realistic for an adult with a life, but I do think that reading is at least as important as living if you're trying to learn how to tell a story well. Life may provide the story and its details, but through reading a writer absorbs the technical skills they need to tell the story in writing. You see how other people did it, and that's invaluable. I think beginning writers should probably be doing as much reading as writing, maybe more, unless they've already got a very solid reading background.

And there's a very important point. A "solid reading background." Most of us have that, if we've reached any kind of success writing. I used to bribe my brother to drive me to the bookstore so I could spend my babysitting money on books. I also did his chores as well as my own -- for book money. And after school, in those soul-deadening jobs, I carried a paperback to work and read during my breaks and mealtimes. No matter how many odd looks I got.

I love long layovers in airports because I can read. And long flights, because I can read. And vacations in the mountains or at the beach. And I have books on both my nightstands.

I read every chance I can get -- and I do not believe I would be a successful writer today if I didn't.

I never understand the threads that go "So And So said this...however, hem hem, chiz and wit, I believe this is faulty advice and shall not use it viz-a-viz, it's impracticality." Sort of like that thread from awhile ago that went "I heard someone say you have to write one million words before you start writing good material...I don't believe I have to write a million words, I bet some only do five hundred thousand," etc, etc.

Just don't get it.

I'd be curious to see where that particular Stephen King quote came from, by the way, because that's a new one on me. I've heard him say that you have to read a lot and write a lot, and there's no way around those two things if you want to be a writer...but I've never heard him claim that you have to put in XX hours on each. In fact, he talks -- in On Writing -- about writing when you can, in the spare moments, if you have to. And then he goes on to talk about Anthony Trollop, who wrote for two hours every morning before work, and he did not say "Hem, hem, Mister Trollop was Not A Writer Indeed."

Amazing, isn't it? Both the misquotes and the attitudes.

I mean, jeez, if you look for advice, take what feels right to you and ignore the rest. Because nobody is going to do the work for you, or figure out what methods best fit you, or give you a handful of magic beans or the secret password to writing success.

It's hard. It's a job. Put your ass in the chair and do the time.

And you might want to dial back the scorn a bit when discussing writers who have made it. Because you really don't know who most of us are, those few who hang around forums filled with aspiring writers and offer our (really quite valuable now) time and experience and maybe even a leg up the ladder.

Stupid us. Helping our competition.

Rant over. For now.

[Chris Grey]

PeeDee is, of course, right.

That and there's an awful lot of ressentiment I'm detecting.

Let's just say that someone does cite chapter and verse for this "four hours writing four hours reading" thing. And let's just say that for some reason all of us have to take things absolutely literally.

Assuming weekends off, that's forty hours a week. That's a fulltime job. If one aims to be a professional writer and, thus, write as a fulltime job, that's not too much to ask.

The time spent "reading" is time spent "researching." It's more than just for fun-- you're spending that time analyzing the craft of your competition, you're exercising reader-thought to better understand your craft from your market's point of view, you're germinating new ideas. The time spent "writing" is time spent writing, rewriting, editing, etc-- time spent practicing your trade so you can sell it.

Now then, assuming that we're all capable of abstract and critical thought, then it's obvious that those numbers are not in the Ten Commandments. The same with the "you have to write a million words before you can be good" thing. What's an eight-letter word for "write a million words before you're good"? Practice. How many scales do you have to do before you can perform at Carnegie Hall? Anyone who squabbles about the quantity of words or scales or whatever is missing the point. If you write a million words of utter crap, all you've done is practiced writing crap. Please tell me this is fascinatingly clear to everyone here.

That quote,
Read four hours a day and write four hours a day. If you cannot find the time for that, you can't expect to become a good writer.It's not about the quantity of hours spent reading/writing. What it essentially means is
If you don't work at it, you can't expect to be good.

[Linda Adams]

And there's a very important point. A "solid reading background." Most of us have that, if we've reached any kind of success writing. I used to bribe my brother to drive me to the bookstore so I could spend my babysitting money on books. I also did his chores as well as my own -- for book money. And after school, in those soul-deadening jobs, I carried a paperback to work and read during my breaks and mealtimes. No matter how many odd looks I got.

I love long layovers in airports because I can read. And long flights, because I can read. And vacations in the mountains or at the beach. And I have books on both my nightstands.

I read every chance I can get -- and I do not believe I would be a successful writer today if I didn't.



I take a book with me to work to read at lunch. If I'm riding the Metro, I take a book with me to read while I'm waiting. If I go to the doctor's office, I've got a book. When I get home from work, I usually read for about half an hour to wind down. And I still write.

We had a writer in our critique group who had been working for thirteen years and multiple rewrites on a novel. But he didn't read. At all. When told he should be reading in his genre or reading in general, he snapped, "I don't have time." And he also had no clue what to do with comments he continiously got asking what his story was about. He was seventy-thousand words into the book and hadn't started the story yet.

[IceCreamEmpress]

In fact, he talks -- in On Writing -- about writing when you can, in the spare moments, if you have to. And then he goes on to talk about Anthony Trollope, who wrote for two hours every morning before work

Yes, exactly. Trollope is an incredible example of someone who had an arduous day-job (he was a very senior administrator in the English postal service, and is credited with having invented the iconic red pillar box!), a family, an active civic life (he stood for Parliament and was active in politics throughout his life)...

...AND wrote 47 novels. 47 novels, of which the shortest is probably 250 pages and the longest is 600 pages. And some of these novels are still read and loved today.

So clearly those comments are being taken out of context.

[PeeDee]

I should point out, I wasn't angry, or aggrieved, or even annoyed. Just genuinely puzzled over these sort of threads. I should further point out, I wasn't accusing dearest Akuma of anything. I've seen it attributed to On Writing as well, which is where my "read a lot, write a lot," quote comes from (give me five minutes, and I could quote page number). But I've read that book enough times, for pleasure, and know that he never suggests four hours of anything in there.

Another wise quote from Stephen King, paraphrased by me: "And if you love reading, and love writing, then a regiment of both every day won't really seem like work, and that's the best part."

And of course, he's right.

[johnzakour]

I would like to point out, 8 hours is a pretty standard work day. I do pretty much read or write 8 hours a day. Not because anybody says I'm suppose to it's just what works for me. (I also watch TV a couple of hours a day while I doodle ideas. Nobody told me to do. In fact, an interviewer for a very famous writing magazine laughed when I told him that was one of my techniques for coming up with ideas. It just works for me.)

[Cranky]

I should point out, I wasn't angry, or aggrieved, or even annoyed. Just genuinely puzzled over these sort of threads. I should further point out, I wasn't accusing dearest Akuma of anything. I've seen it attributed to On Writing as well, which is where my "read a lot, write a lot," quote comes from (give me five minutes, and I could quote page number). But I've read that book enough times, for pleasure, and know that he never suggests four hours of anything in there.

Another wise quote from Stephen King, paraphrased by me: "And if you love reading, and love writing, then a regiment of both every day won't really seem like work, and that's the best part."

And of course, he's right.

I'll just ditto this post if you don't mind, PeeDee. I've read that book many, many times (it inspires me when the going gets rough) and I don't recall that eight hour regimen thingy in there at all.

And I've damn near got the book memorized, I've dipped in so often. :)

[Shady Lane]

I would like to point out, 8 hours is a pretty standard work day. I do pretty much read or write 8 hours a day. Not because anybody says I'm suppose to it's just what works for me. (I also watch TV a couple of hours a day while I doodle ideas. Nobody told me to do. In fact, an interviewer for a very famous writing magazine laughed when I told him that was one of my techniques for coming up with ideas. It just works for me.)

I write in front of the TV. People tend to vomit when I tell them that.

And I don't mean sometimes. I ALWAYS write in front of the TV.

[johnzakour]

I write in front of the TV. People tend to vomit when I tell them that.

And I don't mean sometimes. I ALWAYS write in front of the TV.

Yep, I'm comfortable and there's no pressure. So the TV and the TUB have helped generate many of my ideas.

[PeeDee]

I would like to point out, 8 hours is a pretty standard work day. I do pretty much read or write 8 hours a day. Not because anybody says I'm suppose to it's just what works for me. (I also watch TV a couple of hours a day while I doodle ideas. Nobody told me to do. In fact, an interviewer for a very famous writing magazine laughed when I told him that was one of my techniques for coming up with ideas. It just works for me.)

Emboldened, and embiggened, because it's the true bit. Do what works for you. Some days, I read and write for eight hours a day. I'm a full-time writer. When I had a job, I used to write late at night, and read in the mornings and at work. (Depending on the job: for the harder jobs, I mostly just slept, slept, slept).

Do what you gotta. I adore the idea of getting to stretch out on the couch and read for four hours a day. I would love to do that! I'd be reading a book a day, or a book every two days or so. It's a stunning idea. And then to follow it with four hours of solid writing...My God, but I'd be the most productive person ever.

And that said, I also love the idea of doing Anthony Trollop's system of two ironclad hours every day, and I think it was fantastic that he managed it.

Instead, there's my method which is: I catch as catch can. In a good week, I do eight thousand words a day. Do you have to, in order to be a writer? No. Some writers are pretty keen to do 2,000 words a day. Or less. So what? Since we're quoting Stephen King, he has a fun anecdote about James Joyce in On Writing, which states: A friend came over to see Joyce and found him slumped in dispair in front of the typewriter. "Is it the work?" the friend asked. James nodded. It was always the work. "How many words have you done today?" the friend asked. Seven, James says. "Seven? But James, that's good for you!" and James replies I suppose...but I don't know what ORDER they go in!

And despite writing incomprehensible books, James Joyce is a literary master.

Do what you gotta.

...

and always, always, always, check your sources and your facts. Again, I'm not making a jab at Akuma or anything, this is just a good place to point this out. A funky quote? Check it out. Where does it come from? What page? What interview? Where? When? What Context?

It's like the big scandal, a couple years back in the U.K., when everyone just KNEW that Terry Pratchett had badmouthed J.K. Rowling horribly in the press. And in reality, it came down to Pratchett making a very Pratchett-like amusing quip that could only be described as affectionate, and everyone took it out of context and declared a feud. Check, check, check.

[miles]

Am I the only one who actually does read four hours a day and write four hours a day?

Of course, I have the luxury of having a fifteen-hour-per-week job that pays like a forty.

[maxmordon]

Write when you feel inspired and you like it, try to put some time aside to write and whenver you feel better do it and always carry a notebook with a pencil close in case you have to write down some idea


Some quotes of one of the writers I admire most:


Every writer "creates" his own precursors. His work modifies our conception of the past, as it will modify the future.
Jorge Luis Borges

I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library.
Jorge Luis Borges

In general, every country has the language it deserves.
Jorge Luis Borges

In the order of literature, as in others, there is no act that is not the coronation of an infinite series of causes and the source of an infinite series of effects.
Jorge Luis Borges

Like all those possessing a library, Aurelian was aware that he was guilty of not knowing his in its entirety.
Jorge Luis Borges

Like all writers, he measured the achievements of others by what they had accomplished, asking of them that they measure him by what he envisaged or planned.
Jorge Luis Borges

Reading is an activity subsequent to writing: more resigned, more civil, more intellectual.
Jorge Luis Borges

Reality is not always probable, or likely.
Jorge Luis Borges

The central problem of novel-writing is causality.
Jorge Luis Borges

The original is unfaithful to the translation.
Jorge Luis Borges

To be immortal is commonplace; except for man, all creatures are immortal, for they are ignorant of death; what is divine, terrible, incomprehensible, is to know that one is immortal.
Jorge Luis Borges

Writing is nothing more than a guided dream.
Jorge Luis Borges

Every novel is an ideal plane inserted into the realm of reality.
-- Essay: "Partial Magic in the Quixote,"

These ambiguities, redundances, and deficiences recall those attributed by Dr. Franz Kuhn to a certain Chinese encyclopedia entitled Celestial Emporium of Benevolent Knowledge. On those remote pages it is written that animals are divided into (a) those that belong to the Emperor, (b) embalmed ones, (c) those that are trained, (d) suckling pigs, (e) mermaids, (f) fabulous ones, (g) stray dogs, (h) those that are included in this classification, (i) those that tremble as if they were mad, (j) innumerable ones, (k) those drawn with a very fine camel's hair brush, (l) others, (m) those that have just broken a flower vase, (n) those that resemble flies from a distance.
-- Essay: "The Analytical Language of John Wilkins"

Gibbon observes that in the Arabian book par excellence, in the Koran, there are no camels; I believe if there were any doubt as to the authenticity of the Koran, this absence of camels would be sufficient to prove it is an Arabian work.
-- Essay: "The Argentine Writer and Tradition"

A book is more than a verbal structure or series of verbal structures; it is the dialogue it establishes with its reader and the intonation it imposes upon his voice and the changing and durable images it leaves in his memory. A book is not an isolated being: it is a relationship, an axis of innumerable relationships.
-- Essay: "A Note on (toward) Bernard Shaw"

Any time something is written against me, I not only share the sentiment but feel I could do the job far better myself. Perhaps I should advise would-be enemies to send me their grievances beforehand, with full assurance that they will receive my every aid and support. I have even secretly longed to write, under a pen name, a merciless tirade against myself.
-- Autobiographical essay 1970

Films are even stranger [than theater], for what we are seeing are not disguised people but photographs of disguised people, and yet we believe them while the film is being shown.
-- Lecture entitled "The Divine Comedy," 1977

A writer -- and, I believe, generally all persons -- must think that whatever happens to him or her is a resource. All things have been given to us for a purpose, and an artist must feel this more intensely. All that happens to us, including our humiliations, our misfortunes, our embarrassments, all is given to us as raw material, as clay, so that we may shape our art.
--From "Twenty Conversations with Borges, Including a Selection of Poems: Interviews by Roberto Alifano, 1981-1983."

Mir Bahadur Ali is, as we have seen, incapable of evading the most vulgar of art's temptations: that of being a genius.
-- "The Approach to Al-Mu'tasim"

There is no intellectual exercise which is not ultimately useless.
-- "Pierre Menard, Author of Don Quixote"

I cannot think it unlikely that there is such a total book on some shelf in the universe. I pray to the unknown gods that some man -- even a single man, tens of centuries ago -- has perused and read this book. If the honor and wisdom and joy of such a reading are not to be my own, then let them be for others. Let heaven exist, though my own place may be in hell. Let me be tortured and battered and annihilated, but let there be one instant, one creature, wherein thy enormous Library may find its justification.
-- "The Library of Babel"

That history should have imitated history was already sufficiently marvellous; that history should imitate literature is inconceivable....
-- "Theme of the Traitor and Hero"

There are no moral or intellectual merits. Homer composed the Odyssey; if we postulate an infinite period of time, with infinite circumstances and changes, the impossible thing is not to compose the Odyssey, at least once.
-- "The Immortal"

No one is anyone, one single immortal man is all men. Like Cornelius Agrippa, I am god, I am hero, I am philosopher, I am demon and I am world, which is a tedious way of saying that I do not exist.
-- "The Immortal"

[PeeDee]

Here's another quotation:

"Genius was 1 percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration." - Thomas Edison

Write when you feel inspired. Write when you DON'T feel inspired. Write when golden words come out your fingertips, and write when you seem to be shoveling crap.

Writing is work, and it is a job, and it should be treated as such. That doesn't mean you do eight hours a day, but that doesn't mean you necessarily wait around for fairy dust to alight upon your page and show you the words either.

[miles]

Write when you feel inspired and you like it

Thanks for the great quotes from writers, but I totally disagree with the above statement. If that works for you, great. You must feel inspired daily. But most professional writers have days when they aren't inspired and really don't feel like writing. The key to being a "professional" in just about any field is working through it even when it's the last thing you want to do.

Do you think professional football players wake up everyday anxious to get on the practice field? Or professional actors never want a lazy day? They do it in spite of their mood, and that's what separates them from the wannabes.

Writing is no different.

[blacbird]

The real hard part is writing when you know, the way a fish knows how to swim, that nobody is ever ever ever going to read a goddam word you wrote. Ever.

Ever ever ever.

caw

[maxmordon]

The real hard part is writing when you know, the way a fish knows how to swim, that nobody is ever ever ever going to read a goddam word you wrote. Ever.

Ever ever ever.

caw

Quite optimistic, eh? no soprise if some people here ends up like Henry Darger

[miles]

The real hard part is writing when you know, the way a fish knows how to swim, that nobody is ever ever ever going to read a goddam word you wrote. Ever.

Ever ever ever.



Well, I won't be adding that one to my list of inspirational quotes.

[David I]

Thanks for the great quotes from writers, but I totally disagree with the above statement. If that works for you, great. You must feel inspired daily. But most professional writers have days when they aren't inspired and really don't feel like writing. The key to being a "professional" in just about any field is working through it even when it's the last thing you want to do.

"I only write when inspired. Therefore I make it a point to be inspired every morning at 9 am."

-- W Somerset Maugham

"Most writers write too much. Some writers write way too much, gauged by the quality of their accumulated oeuvre."

-- Richard Ford

I would say that those two writers are equally successful at what they set out to do. I guess I'll have to fall back on the Greeks and say that they key is to Know Thyself.

[blacbird]

I guess I'll have to fall back on the Greeks and say that they key is to Know Thyself.

Yeah. It's a bitch.

caw

[David I]

The real hard part is writing when you know, the way a fish knows how to swim, that nobody is ever ever ever going to read a goddam word you wrote. Ever.

Ever ever ever.

caw

I dunno, my darkish feathered avian pal. I seem to have read quite a few of your words--and with considerable pleasure and amusement, I might add.

By logic, I guess that makes me nobody?

Yikes. And here I was feeling pretty good...

[Shady Lane]

Am I the only one who actually does read four hours a day and write four hours a day?

Of course, I have the luxury of having a fifteen-hours-per-week job that pays like a forty.


That is quite the luxury.

I have a forty-hour-per-week that pays like volunteer work.


yayyyy high school....

[blacbird]

Of course, I have the luxury of having a fifteen-hours-per-week job that pays like a forty.

Then why in God's name do you want to write?

caw

[maxmordon]

Then why in God's name do you want to write?

caw

Why do we write at all? wasn't Oscar Wilde who said that literature was the career of the idle ones? (sorry I read the translation). Is not usually an estable work or one where you can have success in an easy way, doesn't build a house or put food on an average man's table... why does art exists at the end?

[blacbird]

Why do we write at all? wasn't Oscar Wilde who said that literature was the career of the idle ones? (sorry I read the translation). Is not usually an estable work or one where you can have success in an easy way, doesn't build a house or put food on an average man's table... why does art exists at the end?

Point. I withdraw the question; it was kinda stupid anyway. Sorry. It's cold and dark and I'm more than usually useless tonight.

caw

[miles]

That is quite the luxury.

I have a forty-hour-per-week that pays like volunteer work.


yayyyy high school....

Well, the downside is that I have to live in a place that has gotten quite old after nine years.

[maxmordon]

Point. I withdraw the question; it was kinda stupid anyway. Sorry. It's cold and dark and I'm more than usually useless tonight.

caw

Sorry for being rude, I am tired and my mind is not working as usually works

[blacbird]

Sorry for being rude, I am tired and my mind is not working as usually works

You live four or five time zones east of me. Why aren't you asleep?

caw

[maxmordon]

You live four or five time zones east of me. Why aren't you asleep?

caw

Slept for a couple of hours, woke up and came here and I was just leaving

[johnzakour]

Am I the only one who actually does read four hours a day and write four hours a day?

Of course, I have the luxury of having a fifteen-hour-per-week job that pays like a forty.

I try to write / read for at least eight hours every day. (Except for the occasional day off.)

Sometimes I write for two hours and read for six. Sometimes I write for seven and read for one. You get the idea. (I won't go through all the combinations.) It depends on the day and what projects deadline is how far away.

My writing time goes up if you count writing while watching TV. I never read while watching TV though as that's just plan wrong. :)

I write many things so my reading material varies to from text books to magazine articles to humor books to novels (but none in my area) and many comic books (I do get paid to write comics so it's research).

Writing is all I do except for occasional voluntary work.

[Stijn Hommes]

It's unrealistic. A whole lot of people are very much professional even though they have to manage a job and one or more kids alongside their writing - which means they don't have anywhere near 8 hours to spend on their craft each day.

[Smiling Ted]

Leaving aside the "who said" and "did he really say" of the quote, I'd like to direct everyone's attention to the postscript of On Writing - the section titled "On Living." Most of it was published on its own in The New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2000/06/19/2000_06_19_078_TNY_LIBRY_000021098).

Reading it made me go out and buy the book - the first retail, full-price purchase of a book by Stephen King that I have ever made.

Read it.

[scarletpeaches]

Let's see...12 hours of real work. 8 hours of writing related work. 4 hours of sleep.

s Yep, works for me. s

You mean writing isn't real work? :Jaw:

Seriously...eight hours a day dedicated to reading and writing? I wish. I know writing on less is possible because I do it. I read on the bus, on my breaks, on the bus home, while out walking, in the evenings...but I very much doubt it adds up to four hours a day. And I've had the odd day when I've written for four hours or more but those have only been on weekends or on my days off from secular work.

If I was earning enough money to pay the rent from writing alone, I could easily afford to do four hours and four hours. Think about it. That's a normal eight hour working day. But until I can afford to keep a roof over my head from writing alone, this eight-hour plan isn't workable for me.

Although...I'll be unemployed soon, so you never know...;)

[Dustry Joe]

You mean writing isn't real work?

Only if you do it right.

[scarletpeaches]

Write when you feel inspired and you like it, try to put some time aside to write and whenver you feel better do it...

The first part I strongly disagree with. If I only wrote when I felt like it, I'd be a lot less productive than I am. The second part seems to contradict this, by recommending we set aside time to write - which I do agree with. Buying out the time isn't always easy but if we want to reach 'the end', we have to.

[Dustry Joe]

You get a lot of contradictory responses from pros on wriing habits...each talent is unique, including how it applies itself...but this is one special case in which I would say you'd be extremely hard put to find a single professional writer who would subscribe to the "when you feel like it" method.

I have never heard of anybody with any success in writing (or anything, come to think of it) who just does it when the mood hits. Over and over you see the pros talking about a schedule, a time for writing, a certain amount of work each day, slogging through when it's not fun, etc.

[johnzakour]

You get a lot of contradictory responses from pros on wriing habits...each talent is unique, including how it applies itself...but this is one special case in which I would say you'd be extremely hard put to find a single professional writer who would subscribe to the "when you feel like it" method.

I have never heard of anybody with any success in writing (or anything, come to think of it) who just does it when the mood hits. Over and over you see the pros talking about a schedule, a time for writing, a certain amount of work each day, slogging through when it's not fun, etc.

One thing I've found is that by forcing myself to write when I'm not in the mood to write, often my mood changes and I become in the mood to write.

It's like when I'm working out, I'm never in the mood. I tell myself, "self just do it for five minutes." The thing is after those five minutes are up I'm always in the mood to keep going. (I'm not sure if it's because calcium channels start opening up or what. But it works.)

[Siddow]

Does reading on AW count toward that four hours?

[Dustry Joe]

No, you have to subtract it.

[lfraser]

I am awed by anyone who can work a full-time professional job and still be dedicated enough to become, and remain, a professional writer. There are lot of published writers who have to work day jobs to make ends meet. Hats off to them. It's a rough go.

I'm trying to do that myself, and it's bloody difficult. I'm tired when I get home. I'm tired and I still have to cook, most days, and eat and do a bit of cleaning and maybe some laundry, and then, after all that, I can find maybe a couple of hours for writing or reading (but almost never both) -- and that's if my partner and I are both in writing mode and don't actually try to have a conversation at any point. I do most of my writing on weekends. That's life.

Four hours a day writing AND four hours a day reading? I'd love to. That sounds like paradise to me.

[Siddow]

No, you have to subtract it.

Dang it. I'm hopeless. :D

[CheshireCat]

Here's another quotation:

"Genius was 1 percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration." - Thomas Edison

Write when you feel inspired. Write when you DON'T feel inspired. Write when golden words come out your fingertips, and write when you seem to be shoveling crap.

Writing is work, and it is a job, and it should be treated as such. That doesn't mean you do eight hours a day, but that doesn't mean you necessarily wait around for fairy dust to alight upon your page and show you the words either.

What Pete said.

Thanks for the great quotes from writers, but I totally disagree with the above statement. If that works for you, great. You must feel inspired daily. But most professional writers have days when they aren't inspired and really don't feel like writing. The key to being a "professional" in just about any field is working through it even when it's the last thing you want to do.

Do you think professional football players wake up everyday anxious to get on the practice field? Or professional actors never want a lazy day? They do it in spite of their mood, and that's what separates them from the wannabes.

Writing is no different.

And Miles.

The real hard part is writing when you know, the way a fish knows how to swim, that nobody is ever ever ever going to read a goddam word you wrote. Ever.

Ever ever ever.

caw

You're wrong, you know.

It's unrealistic. A whole lot of people are very much professional even though they have to manage a job and one or more kids alongside their writing - which means they don't have anywhere near 8 hours to spend on their craft each day.

Have you been paying attention to the thread? It's not a carved-in-stone number of hours devoted to writing and reading that's important, it's doing both with whatever consistency and regularity you can find in your own life.

One thing I've found is that by forcing myself to write when I'm not in the mood to write, often my mood changes and I become in the mood to write.

It's like when I'm working out, I'm never in the mood. I tell myself, "self just do it for five minutes." The thing is after those five minutes are up I'm always in the mood to keep going. (I'm not sure if it's because calcium channels start opening up or what. But it works.)

Remarkable, isn't it? Deadlines force me to sit down and start working on many days when I'd far rather be reading a book I'm halfway through, or going to see a movie or show, or doing any number of other things. But I've learned to sit down and start reading the previous workday's work, promising myself that I'll write at least five new pages.

It most often ends up being seven pages, or ten, or even twelve. And I always, always, always feel so much better when I've written, when I've made progress with the current book.

You can build a considerable body of work, just five pages at a time.

[scarletpeaches]

I said the same thing and you didn't quote me. :cry:

[CheshireCat]

The first part I strongly disagree with. If I only wrote when I felt like it, I'd be a lot less productive than I am. The second part seems to contradict this, by recommending we set aside time to write - which I do agree with. Buying out the time isn't always easy but if we want to reach 'the end', we have to.

What Scarlet said.

:D

[scarletpeaches]

Yay! :D I are happy now. Yay me! :D

[SpookyWriter]

Yay! :D I are happy now. Yay me! :DWhere's my fudge? If you ain't a writing then why aren't you a cooking? Ek!

P.S. Seun put me up to it. Blame him.

[scarletpeaches]

I have my Neo right here. Chatting to Emma on MSN, posting here, typing on the Neo and watching QI on teh tellybox at the same time. That's multitasking for you.

[SpookyWriter]

I have my Neo right here. Chatting to Emma on MSN, posting here, typing on the Neo and watching QI on teh tellybox at the same time. That's multitasking for you.Yeah, well I just critiqued me a few more stories in SYW, wrote a couple sentences in my wip, chatted with my mum and kids, drank a pint of vodka, managed to keep Haskins guessing while smoking a fag and sharing the tube with my neighbors.

[ishtar'sgate]

Not sure anyone can do that, unless they don't have to go to work or do any household chores. I got up at 4:30 am, wrote until I had to go to work, wrote on my lunch break and then again in the evening after I'd fed my family and looked after the laundry and housework. If I was lucky, I could finish a chapter of the novel I kept on my beside table before falling asleep. Even now, I can't devote 4 hours to reading. It would cut into my writing time. Good luck to those who can keep such a schedule.
Linnea

[PeeDee]

You have to write for four hours a day.

You have to read for four hours a day.

You have to write a million words of crap first.

You have to be an utter chump.

OR...you can not worry about it. Just work, for Pete's sake.

[Rolling Thunder]

OR...you can not worry about it. Just work, for Pete's sake.

If I don't follow this instruction, will something terrible happen to you?

Seriously: I write when I feel at my best, when I'm in my 'story zone'. Otherwise, I'm just typin owt werdz.

[Dustry Joe]

Yes.

[lfraser]

[quote=PeeDee;1919102]You have to be an utter chump.

At least I've got that bit right, anyway.

[kuwisdelu]

I'm with max; I just can't write when I'm not feeling it. Forcing myself doesn't work. It's just crap. Sure that makes me less productive than some, but hey. I prefer quality over quantity, and for me any more than I do now, the rest would be bad writing, so I might as well not write it. Joyce wasn't really the most productive either, though, now, ne?

If I really feel the need to get things done, I can usually incite myself into inspiration, but it takes time. I can read a good book for a while, or watch a movie, or listen to the right music, and sooner or later it'll put me in the mood. I don't understand how anyone could force themselves to write when not inspired, but that's just me, I guess. Hey, we all work differently don't we? Incidentally, I never liked that Edison quotation. It gives too little credit to inspiration in my opinion. But I've always been more of a Tesla fan--after all, who can argue with David Bowie?

What I don't get is how anyone can write while watching TV? How do you concentrate? I mean, it must work for you... But I have to completely remove myself from distraction while writing. I can't even deal with light, so I only write at night these days... I should stop now before you all think I'm a freak.

[deathwizard]

I write four hours a day and read two hours a day, so I'm not so far off. A person who writes four hours a day and reads four hours a day is going to be way ahead of a person of equal ability who writes an hour a day and reads hardly at all. How could he or she not be?

As for writing only when you feel like it, that doesn't work for me at all. I'd end up writing four hours a week if I did that.

[Chris Grey]

There are nine and sixty ways of constructing tribal lays,
And every single one of them is right!TV works for some precisely because it is a distraction. It's like deadlines to others or a gun to the head for others still. You must focus on your work or all is lost.

Inspiration doesn't work for everybody. Some writers are like King (and no I don't have a quote) where he more discovers his stories in the depths of his consciousness. Some don't find anything that interesting down there, so they build their stories. All I don't like about that Edison quote is that people take the numbers too seriously--

And inspiration is overrated anyway. At most, the Muses will give me a handful of cinnamon. It's entirely up to me to figure out what to do with it. If I waited around for them to cook for me I'd starve.

Everyone is different (I'm not). What works for some doesn't work for others, what works for others might not work for some. Whatever the case, two things are clear:
What worked for King obviously worked for King.
Debating "what it takes to be a writer" will not make you a writer, only writing will.YMMV.

[kuwisdelu]

2. Debating "what it takes to be a writer" will not make you a writer, only writing will.


More people should remember that one by heart.

[maxmordon]

I'm with max; I just can't write when I'm not feeling it. Forcing myself doesn't work. It's just crap. Sure that makes me less productive than some, but hey. I prefer quality over quantity, and for me any more than I do now, the rest would be bad writing, so I might as well not write it. Joyce wasn't really the most productive either, though, now, ne?

If I really feel the need to get things done, I can usually incite myself into inspiration, but it takes time. I can read a good book for a while, or watch a movie, or listen to the right music, and sooner or later it'll put me in the mood. I don't understand how anyone could force themselves to write when not inspired, but that's just me, I guess. Hey, we all work differently don't we? Incidentally, I never liked that Edison quotation. It gives too little credit to inspiration in my opinion. But I've always been more of a Tesla fan--after all, who can argue with David Bowie?

What I don't get is how anyone can write while watching TV? How do you concentrate? I mean, it must work for you... But I have to completely remove myself from distraction while writing. I can't even deal with light, so I only write at night these days... I should stop now before you all think I'm a freak.


Thanks for the support!

[Danger Jane]

I'm with max; I just can't write when I'm not feeling it. Forcing myself doesn't work. It's just crap. Sure that makes me less productive than some, but hey. I prefer quality over quantity, and for me any more than I do now, the rest would be bad writing, so I might as well not write it. Joyce wasn't really the most productive either, though, now, ne?

If I really feel the need to get things done, I can usually incite myself into inspiration, but it takes time. I can read a good book for a while, or watch a movie, or listen to the right music, and sooner or later it'll put me in the mood. I don't understand how anyone could force themselves to write when not inspired, but that's just me, I guess. Hey, we all work differently don't we? Incidentally, I never liked that Edison quotation. It gives too little credit to inspiration in my opinion. But I've always been more of a Tesla fan--after all, who can argue with David Bowie?

What I don't get is how anyone can write while watching TV? How do you concentrate? I mean, it must work for you... But I have to completely remove myself from distraction while writing. I can't even deal with light, so I only write at night these days... I should stop now before you all think I'm a freak.

I totally agree, man. I might not write as quickly as some, but it saves a hell of a lot of time in editing if I just don't force it. I can still manage a decent amount of words, now--this isn't an excuse for laziness. But four hours a day of writing every day...would frustrate me.

Sometimes the TV is on when I write, but I'm not watching. It's just on. I write with music or silence, generally, and when I feel capable of it, generally. Of course I force myself sometimes. But usually, I really can't write anything decent when I don't feel something.

This doesn't mean only write when I feel like it (which is most of the time). It means don't FORCE it.

ETA: you too, max :tongue

[seun]

Where's my fudge? If you ain't a writing then why aren't you a cooking? Ek!

P.S. Seun put me up to it. Blame him.

nice to get a mention in a thread I haven't posted in yet. :D