Celebrities becoming authors....

[ZannaPerry]

I've had this topic on my mind before and I have gone over and over with it in my head about all these celebrities writing books, in the works of writing one, or have some already published. And as I think about this, I have to ask....

Is that fair?

They are a CELEBRITY. People who are paid to make appearances, sign autographs, anything possible! But is it truly fair for them to write a book and OF COURSE, they will be published? They don't have to deal with rejection letters, do they?

Because it isn't fair. Sure, anyone can be a writer but it takes a lot effort, creativity, and time to write a book, something you love doing. For celebrities, I think some do it just to either get more money, or have their name AGAIN sprawled all over newspapers and in the media another way.

Is it just my constant jealousy toward celebrities that they are able to get anything they ever want when the rest of us "people" have to strive for it?

With some exceptions like a few celebrities who actually care about the stories they put out and aren't doing it just for the publicity. They want to see their readers happy...others don't.

PLEASE, if I am thinking all wrong about this LET ME KNOW! I will feel soooo much better!

[Moon Daughter]

The only thing I'm not fond of is when a celebrity doesn't even write their own book and claim how they're also an "author" on top of being an actress or singer, etc. But of course people with more social status and money will get more advantages, which just makes it way more sweet when one of us non-celebs gets a deal through talent and hard work.

ETA: Celebrities have the right to write books, too. ;)

[TrickyFiction]

Is that fair?

No, it's not fair, but then, neither is life. There's no use getting upset because someone has an easier time of something than you do. I'm not saying I never get jealous; I'm the queen of jealousy. But, there really is no use in it (says rational me). You're one of those who will have to fight harder than others for what you want. So am I. All we can do about that is try harder.

[johnrobison]

How do you think they became celebrities in the first place? Do you think that perhaps represented quite a lot of work?

I don't agree with you on this. Many celebrities write books because there's a fan base that wants to know more. Look at Eric Clapton's recent book . . . it was a huge success, not because he dabbled in writing, but because he wrote a book about his 40-year career in music.

I would wager that a celebrity like Clapton has invested quite a lot more work in his career than most, and I would not begrudge him writing a book about it. As to dealing with rejection . . . publishers want to publish what will sell. It self evident that a Clapton book will sell, so they won't reject it.

[Mud Dauber]

They are a CELEBRITY. People who are paid to make appearances, sign autographs, anything possible! But is it truly fair for them to write a book and OF COURSE, they will be published? They don't have to deal with rejection letters, do they?
So big deal if they don't get rejection letters and they get published because of who they know. That's only the first step. Everyone still has to read their book, and if it sucks, it's not going to go anywhere other than the bargain tables at the big bookstores.

I don't begrudge anyone either, for trying their hand at writing. Maybe I'm naive, but I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to people, including celebrities. If they are merely writing for the sake of more money in their pocket, then oh well. It's no skin off my back. I don't have to buy their book. But many are writing because they want to write and sincerely believe they have something to say; a story to tell. I say good for them.

JMHO.:)

[ClaudiaGray]

Hey, I forget which publisher it was, but one of the big houses actually sued Joan Collins for turning in a manuscript they'd bought that they described as "unpublishable." Not for scandalous reasons -- just because it was that bad.

[Devil Ledbetter]

It doesn't bother me. It's no different than some actress getting to cut an album when there are millions of unknown singers more talented than she, or a singer getting a part in a movie when there are millions of actresses who could perform better.

Or when some celebrity's untalented sibling gets record deals, tv shows, etc. because of the family connection.

As someone else already said, there is no "fair." When we stop expecting life to be fair, it becomes much easier to be happy.

[NicoleMD]

Yeah, I'd say most celebrity authors have already taken their licks. Good for them.

Nicole

[Devil Ledbetter]

Hey, I forget which publisher it was, but one of the big houses actually sued Joan Collins for turning in a manuscript they'd bought that they described as "unpublishable." Not for scandalous reasons -- just because it was that bad.See now, if I were the publisher for a brandname writer like Collins and she forked over some crappy manuscript, I'd be tempted to publish it as-is just to embarrass her.

ETA ... wait. Did I just confuse the author Jackie Collins with her actress sister?

[ZannaPerry]

I don't hold any grudges (because it's not healthy, or mature) and I don't mind if a well-known celebrity like Eric Clapton, and others to write a book about their life. That's all well and good. People will love them for writing more about themselves.

But he's not really in the catagory I'm shooting at. Like Paris Hilton. She is one of the celebrities (if you can call her one since she's a horrible actress and singer..but just my opinion.) She said she's writing a book, and that's fine, but you know she will get published right away. I guess that's where this whole thing sort of pissed me off of how easy it is for some celebrities to get special access. I'm just a little person, I have no problem with that, but we're the ones who have to work the hardest to get our voice out there.

Given, everyone has the right to write, but still...........don't write just to get more attention!

[narnia]

I look at it this way - some folks are born rich and some have to work for their money. ;) Sure, if I'd been born rich maybe Mummy and Daddy could've supported me while I wrote my little heart out.

Seriously, everyone before me touched on what I feel about it, and to be honest, I never really gave it a thought because the only 'celebrity' book I ever bought was by Elton John, because he is my all time ever super duper most awesomely favorite musician. I don't tend to read their stuff anyway so it just doesn't matter (thanks, Bill :)), to me anyway.

Let's face it, there's always someone who gets there quicker, whether by working the system, working period (i.e. the Clapton example), just plain luck, an accident of birth, right place at the right time. For the rest of us it's a little harder, and for me personally it will be a little more rewarding because I did it on my own, albeit with help from folks here at AW like JJ Cooper, Ce Ce, dancre, preyer, Danger Jane, wyntersmoon, brer and numerous others who have helped me more than I can say.

It reminds me of a customer who frequented my diner and was on welfare. I worked my tail off in that place, lucky to have a few hours off every couple of weeks, and this person sat on the counter one day boasting of the vacation she was going to take with her next welfare check. Her friend commented that "pumping out those kids is good for something", a quote ingrained in my memory. I couldn't afford to take a vacation much less pay people to replace me while I was gone, yet my tax dollars were paying for this woman to take a vacation. Fair? I think not, but that's life sometimes. Not a perfect analogy I know but just throwing that out there as an example of what I meant by shortcuts, albeit a 'bad behavior' type of one. Although some might say that Paris is famous because of her bad behavior.... :D

Just my two cents.

ETA: Jamie Lee Curtis has a series of children's books that gets good reviews. I don't know if she has a ghost writer, (I don't think so because I've seen her discuss them), and I am willing to bet that her 'connections' got her first book out. However, I am sure that if the first one had bombed there wouldn't have been more.

[James D. Macdonald]

Julie Andrews publishes her children's books under her married name, to avoid the suggestion that she's trading on her celebrity.

But really, don't worry about this. Celebrities are playing a different game than we are. Celebrity books are only a small part of total book market, but they draw people into bookstores where they can see our books. Good on 'em.

[AncientEagle]

Is that fair?

Because it isn't fair. Sure, anyone can be a writer but it takes a lot effort, creativity, and time to write a book, something you love doing. For celebrities, I think some do it just to either get more money, or have their name AGAIN sprawled all over newspapers and in the media another way.


On the other hand, if things were fair, I'd be moldering in the ground in Southeast Asia and one of the youngsters I knew at the time, who never made it to 20, would be living in my house today and enjoying life. I try not to worry about the folks who've gotten an unfair advantage, because I figure, somewhere along the line, I have too.

[Scribhneoir]

They are a CELEBRITY. People who are paid to make appearances, sign autographs, anything possible! But is it truly fair for them to write a book and OF COURSE, they will be published? They don't have to deal with rejection letters, do they?

I can't say I've ever gnashed my teeth at the unfairness of it all. Maybe that's because I always assume celebrity books have been written by non-celebrities, i.e. ghostwriters, who have been paid a nice fee for their efforts. I also assume that in most cases of celebrity books, the idea probably originated with some packager as opposed to the A-list actor-type whose name is being capitalized on. Celebrity books aren't on my list of things to raise my blood pressure over.

[ZannaPerry]

Well, I'll subside this issue now. There's really no point in voicing it anymore. Life is unfair. Some born with privilage, some not. Gee, I wish I could live off mommy and daddy.

[kimmeunier]

I've had this topic on my mind before and I have gone over and over with it in my head about all these celebrities writing books, in the works of writing one, or have some already published. And as I think about this, I have to ask....

Is that fair?

They are a CELEBRITY. People who are paid to make appearances, sign autographs, anything possible! But is it truly fair for them to write a book and OF COURSE, they will be published? They don't have to deal with rejection letters, do they?

Because it isn't fair. Sure, anyone can be a writer but it takes a lot effort, creativity, and time to write a book, something you love doing. For celebrities, I think some do it just to either get more money, or have their name AGAIN sprawled all over newspapers and in the media another way.

Is it just my constant jealousy toward celebrities that they are able to get anything they ever want when the rest of us "people" have to strive for it?

With some exceptions like a few celebrities who actually care about the stories they put out and aren't doing it just for the publicity. They want to see their readers happy...others don't.

PLEASE, if I am thinking all wrong about this LET ME KNOW! I will feel soooo much better!
I agree with you, and it upsets me too. Would it be wrong to assume that the celebrity may not have even written it? Maybe it was their idea, but did they sit down month after month laboring over it as we do? No, I don't think so. I just don't buy it myself.

[ZannaPerry]

I do believe some celebrities sit down with their editors or co-writers and put a nice story together. Others, I'd say pretty much pay someone to write it for them, just keeping their name out of the publications.

[mikeland]

There do seem to be a shocking number of celebrities who write children's books, particularly picture books. Not quite sure why being famous qualifies you to tell a story to my kids, but hey, what do I know?

(for the record, the jamie lee curtis kid books are actually quite good.)

And, as someone else said, celebs writing about themselves and their famous friends (or their famous diets or their famous workout routines) doesn't really bother me. If they don't do it, someone else will.

But since this is the Writing Novels board, I have a question. Are there that many celebrities writing novels? People who got a book deal for a novel just because they were famous?

I can't think of that many. Ethan Hawke. Steve Martin. Stephen Fry. (Although the Steves are both quite good writers -- sorry, Mr. Hawke).

Anyway, can others provide examples of unworthy-celebs-turned-novelists? Give me a reason to be outraged. I like working up a good lather when provoked.

[ZannaPerry]

Ha! I'll have to do some research, mikland, to let you know but I've been seeing some celebrities Britney Spear's mom (not a celebrity?) write another parenting book as if there aren't enough (and why parenting?) and then there's Paris Hilton, Nicole Richie, who said she might be writing a baby book. Just the no-brainers. Just bothersome.

[JoNightshade]

If I worked my butt off to become an actor or singer or whatever, and that allowed me to branch out into other areas, heck yeah I'd do it. The example I think of is Steve Martin, who is a heck of an actor/comedian... and then wrote a little book called Shopgirl, which I found to be quite enjoyable and certainly as good as anything on the market. Do I think it's unfair? Not at all. He's obviously worked hard for the influence he has, and he deserves to reap the rewards of those connections.

I mean, turn it around. Do we criticize JK Rowling because she doesn't actually know how to make the capes, jelly beans, and countless other Harry Potter spinoff items? No, we think of it as a natural result of her fame. Of course she's allowed to capitalize on her own product. Celebrity is just as much a product as a book is.

And then of course there are the celebrities who write their children's books and whatnot (ie Madonna), to which I say, who cares?

Then there are others who have their biographies ghost-written or whatever. I have no problem with that. Some people can't write worth beans, and some people don't want to take the time to write their life stories. But their celebrity is such that there is a demand for such a product; so it is produced. I would be willing to guess that the money made from those big-name biographies keeps a lot of lesser authors afloat. I suspect they make this business a lot less cutthroat than it would otherwise be.

I guess the only thing that would really irritate me is if a celebrity wrote a really crappy adult fiction novel and got it published simply because they were famous. But honestly, I can't think of any examples. Nobody who actually reads regularly cares who writes the book, as long as it's a good tale.

[Akuma]

Chapter 4: Reflections

so like i wuz talking to my best frend britney about how much is sux that my dad sed it wuz bad 2 sex w/ strangrs and snort cokane and she like tottly agreed w/ me lol

[JeanneTGC]

A goodly percentage of the "celebrity" authors are, in no particular order:

Stand-up comedians
Actors
Musicians
Artists
Hyphenates (they're successful in more than one field)
Athletes
Politicians

All of these people have worked hard to be successful in their original fields. Almost all of these fields require artistic or oratory prowess, and many of them require some form of writing skills. Not such a total shocker that they might branch out into writing a book -- if you've written a screenplay, uh, really, why NOT?

I don't mind if someone's ghost writing -- I'll take that well-paying gig! (I guess I have no pride, but I honestly think penning a tome with Pamela Anderson could be a hoot and a half.)

The point is -- the celeb authors get in based on a name they worked hard to create. I can't begrudge them this, because I want the same possibilities open to me and mine.

Time spent in envy is time not spent writing. For me, 'nuff said.

[ZannaPerry]

I never said they didn't work hard enough to write a book. Anyone can write a book if they truly want to.

But what about Lynn Spears? She's only "famous" because of her daughter. And Paris Hilton? I don't EVEN want to know what her book will be about. Who really wants to know more about her?

And believe me, I don't envy these celebrities.

[Danger Jane]

Doesn't bother me. The smart ones worked hard for their fame and influence, and the dumb ones.......well really, what do they matter? Does it really affect my ability to write a fantastic story if Paris Hilton has a book out?

The truly intelligent and talented and dedicated pull through, whereas the simply lucky don't have staying power. Pamela Anderson's (auto)biography didn't hurt the sales of really good books, did it? Because those who bought it bought it expecting crap. There's always an audience for laughable crap. But there's always a (much bigger) audience for intelligent non-crap.

[Akuma]

I never said they didn't work hard enough to write a book. Anyone can write a book if they truly want to.

But what about Lynn Spears? She's only "famous" because of her daughter. And Paris Hilton? I don't EVEN want to know what her book will be about. Who really wants to know more about her?

And believe me, I don't envy these celebrities.

I believe I covered Hilton in my previous post.

But if celebrities want to write books, more power to 'em.

Helps the economy and all.

I won't begrudge anyone. I'll just ask 'why'.

[Danger Jane]

I never said they didn't work hard enough to write a book. Anyone can write a book if they truly want to.

But what about Lynn Spears? She's only "famous" because of her daughter. And Paris Hilton? I don't EVEN want to know what her book will be about. Who really wants to know more about her?

And believe me, I don't envy these celebrities.

The point is, people pay attention to trainwrecks. And even if they can use their ridiculously-gained foot-in-the-door to publish some dreck...who cares? Really?

Jeanne was not saying they couldn't work hard enough to write a book. She was saying that in the vast majority of celebrity-turned-novelist cases, the celebrity had to make a name for himself first, by actually ACHIEVING something. For every Paris Hilton, there are a dozen Eric Claptons.

If you're not envious...what's the point of this thread?

[blacbird]

The only time it really matters is when one of these attention-mongers gets a huge up-front advance that cuts out a big chunk of a publisher's pie that might have gone to other writers. Never forget that incident when HarperCollins threw a humongous advance to Johnny Cochrane, O.J. Simpson's lawyer, for a book on the trial. The book tanked, and HC publicly announced they were cutting something like 100 contracted slots for other books to make up the shortfall.

caw

[Just Jack]

Let's say, Paris Hilton wrote a romance...and it sucked.

I however, am not forced to read it.

There is no one pointing a gun at my head and making me read it.

So In the long run, it doesont really matter.

(I know that sounds selfish, but oh well)

[Toothpaste]

Like others have said, it doesn't really matter about the celebrities because they are in a different niche. They aren't taking the work away from anyone else.

But I do get where you are coming from. I too hate it when something like Ms Hilton can even exist as a celebrity, let alone pretend to have written a book.

However, what gets to me more is the publicity then given to the celebrity authors. One of the co-hosts of the view, Joy, did the picture book thing, and sure enough they were plugging it every few seconds. I guess that's fine, whatever, but she's already famous, already has the big bucks. Imagine how much more it would mean if they plugged something by an unknown quantity, how much it would mean to the individual writer, to the sales of their book. It would be huge. Just like when, I imagine, when Joy as a fledgling comedienne got a chance to do stand up on some talk show. For the celebrity author, it's just another way to earn an extra buck.

And yes I am bitter my book hasn't been featured on The View. And what's up with Oprah? I sent her a package with my book like weeks ago and she still hasn't made me a book club choice yet!

[JeanneTGC]

And yes I am bitter my book hasn't been featured on The View. And what's up with Oprah? I sent her a package with my book like weeks ago and she still hasn't made me a book club choice yet!
She's probably still considering my screenplay about a gutsy black woman who overcomes amazing odds to become one of the biggest celebrities in the world who then picks a plucky writer out of near-oblivion and makes her a superstar.

I think we'll be in production next week, and she'll get to your book then. ;)

[DonnaDuck]

I can't say I don't find it irksome but what can you do about it? I think to some being a celebrity "entitles" them to branching out, some think that since they can act then they can sing and whatever else. Some may have gotten into one business accidentially but they're a closet writer anway. I'm not going to buy their books just because of who they are. If it happens to pique my interest then maybe. Working for celebrity is one thing but being a celebrity for nothing more than by proxy is more irksome. Those that didn't work for their name and just had it handed to them are those that rub harder the wrong way. But again, what are you going to do about it? The only thing you can do is not buy their book and work on your own stuff. No sense in wasting your energy working yourself up over something that you have no control over.

[BluGnat]

Having just read Steve Martin's new book - I have to say that celebrity didn't come easy for him. His book really illustrates that.

As for celebrities getting books published - if they're going to write it, why would a publisher not want to publish it? America is so full of people that are blinded by celebrity worship, the publishers would be missing out on big bucks if they didn't. I'd guess even if it's crap, it'll sell.

[eyeblink]

See now, if I were the publisher for a brandname writer like Collins and she forked over some crappy manuscript, I'd be tempted to publish it as-is just to embarrass her.

ETA ... wait. Did I just confuse the author Jackie Collins with her actress sister?

It was definitely Joan, not Jackie. She turned in a novel that the publishers considered unpublishably bad, and asked her to return her advance. She refused, it went to court, she won. So she kept her advance but the novel has yet to see the light o day, several years later.

[DonnaDuck]

It was definitely Joan, not Jackie. She turned in a novel that the publishers considered unpublishably bad, and asked her to return her advance. She refused, it went to court, she won. So she kept her advance but the novel has yet to see the light o day, several years later.


How did she win something like that? On top of that, why did the publisher give her an advance before even seeing a manuscript? Just because of her name?

[jannawrites]

Ack! I wrote a blog about this very thing months ago - and the whole thing frustrates me to no end. I know this is long, but here's my post:

"So, I've been reading a book. It's a memoir by a woman who overcame a life-threatening disease. Recently her story was made into a movie, and I was excited to read the book. Hers is a profound story that should make anyone (women especially) re-evaluate life and health, but... more than anything, the book has made me think about my frustrations with the world of writing.

In my (what I hope is humble) opinion, critical though it may be, the book is less than stellar. Though her style is casual and conversational (which I tend to enjoy), it's very... jumbled, I'll say. Her thoughts don't flow well, her transitioning is scattered here and there. Her tenses don't match up; in the same sentence, for instance, she uses "was" and "is". Her wording is redundant. I am left to wonder did anyone edit this manuscript?

The author was (is?) a professional in NY, and I wonder if that, combined with her extraordinary ordeal, meant the NY publisher threw certain standards out the window. And if that's the case, how on earth is that fair to all the writers with piles of rejection letters out there?

It reminds me of the book a woman wrote about her involvement with a man. After he was convicted of murder in the nationally-known case, she told all. It was SO sloppy. I'm sorry, but had she been an average jane, it would have never made print. The author even thanked her editor for letting her write "her story, her way." I took that to mean not much was altered.

...That brings me to celebrity authors, particularly of children's literature. Take, in example, a certain well-known pop star. I have no interest in reading her stories to my daughters. When did she transform from a bustier-wearing, across-the-stage-slithering sex symbol to a respectable children's book author?! And, we checked out a book written by a country music singer. I've never seen so many wordy run-on sentences in my life! One actress' story left me scratching my head in wonderment... Granted, I'm sure some of the celebrities are qualified and talented, but it sure seems like they get an easy time of it. All because their names will sell millions of copies, I suppose.

So yeah, I'm a bitter and frustrated writer. I've had some successes, but I've also had multiple rejections on pieces - and a children's book - I really believe in from my gut. I'm scared to proceed with my novel, for fear that my thoughts, my work, my time, will have all been for nothing.

I don't need publicity, book tours, interviews. I just want my words in print, out there for somebody - anybody - to read."

[Simple Living]

Publishing companies give celeb books a chance because they have a built-in marketing scheme based on name recognition alone. It's business.

If a celeb wants to branch out and try to be an author, why not? They do have the right to try other things. Being a celebrity shouldn't define them, their place and their dreams.

I can understand the frustration because celebs are drawing on their fame to sell books. It's not fair when the rest of us are struggling for years. Unfortunately, life's not fair. It's a business decision made by publishers that they have the right to make.

Does this take opportunities away from other writers? Probably, yes. Publishers usually have a set number of books they'll publish in a given year (from my understanding anyway) and if a celeb gets one of those spots, it would seem to take away from other writer's chances. But, unfortunately, the same advice applies. "Get over it. Life isn't fair." If you dwell on this, you'll only frustrate yourself. Publishers and celebs aren't affected by what we think and feel.

In other words, don't waste your energy worrying about something you have no control over. Use it to motivate you to write the best book you can and submit it!

[jannawrites]

If a celeb wants to branch out and try to be an author, why not? They do have the right to try other things. Being a celebrity shouldn't define them, their place and their dreams.



I don't have a problem with that, either, if they truly have the skill and desire to write. It's when they do it - because they're a celebrity - just to have their name associated with one more thing, that chaps my hide.

[scarletpeaches]

Well, I'll subside this issue now. There's really no point in voicing it anymore. Life is unfair. Some born with privilage, some not. Gee, I wish I could live off mommy and daddy.

Okay, we're writers.

But we're also readers and that gives us the right to be pissed off at bad books.

If Nicole Ritchie gets a book deal for no earthly reason than she's - well, what is she for, anyway? - then we have a right to be put out.

No, it doesn't do any good.

No, life isn't fair.

But so what?

No one can say that every celebrity deserves their money or success or that they all got there through sheer hard graft. Not all of them did. Some are tabloid stars who've never done a day's work in their life. And if any celeb, deserving or not, writes a bad book then I'll comment, dammit. It's my right as a reader, never mind the fact I'm a writer too.

[scarletpeaches]

How did she win something like that? On top of that, why did the publisher give her an advance before even seeing a manuscript? Just because of her name?

Because she'd already written other, published novels that sold quite well.

[Robert Toy]

By the sheer virtue of being a "celebrity" (including the likes of Pairs/Lohan, et al –Ugh), they can write or have some else write absolute crap, they will get a huge advance (non-returnable) and it will sell like hot cakes. Oh, yes and a spot on Oprah to boot!

Look how the rags like the checkout counters have survived for decades printing pure garbage.

The is no such thing as gravity - life sucks.

[DonnaDuck]

Because she'd already written other, published novels that sold quite well.


Dammit. I thought it w3as about Jackie. Perhaps I'll read a little closer next time! And maybe get a new set of contacts.

[Shadow_Ferret]

I guess I don't care. I doubt that my audience and a celebrity's audience are the same and that they'd steal sales away from me.

Wait. Shatner writes Sci-Fi, right?

Bastard!

[Simple Living]

I don't have a problem with that, either, if they truly have the skill and desire to write. It's when they do it - because they're a celebrity - just to have their name associated with one more thing, that chaps my hide.

Oh yeah, that burns my buttons, too. It's the publishers taking a chance on the celebrity name for big bucks and compromising their standards. But, what can you do? Being ticked-off takes too much energy I don't have! LOL

[JeanneTGC]

If Paris Hilton and Nichole Richie's books sell, then by proof of the free market, they have every right to be on the shelves. If they don't sell, then by proof of the free market, they will not have new books appearing on the shelves.

And by standards of the free market, you do not have to buy their books.

There's nothing wrong with capitalism. It works quite well, even when it comes to art.

[blacbird]

they have every right to be on the shelves.

Nobody said they didn't have a "right". They have every right to be criticized for them, too.

caw

[HeronW]

Celebrities have the press and the audience already there, putting out a tell-all book whether aided by a ghostwriter or not is just more publicity. it may sell out, be read then wh cares? No one will go back to it because it's tossed to make way for the next 'in-your-face no-talent'.

A personality that writes by him/herself something not in the Hollywood genre of 'I slept with/recovered from/partied at/know other famous people' and that book stays with the reader--that's the rarity.

[DancingMaenid]

If a celebrity wants to write a book, and their book is of good enough quality to be published, then I don't think it's necessarily unfair. I think good books should be published. What's unfair is that people with established names tend to have an easier time selling their talents than people who aren't established, but that's how the business end of the arts tend to work, sad but true. And it makes sense, in a business sense.

But if a celebrity writes a book that's horrible, and it gets published only because of who they are, I'd call that unfair. But then, some people would argue that even famous authors sometimes get away with selling books that probably would not be accepted from someone lesser known.

[Garpy]

Dang....I missed the start of this debate.

I'm coming in on Suzy-B's side. I get incredibly irritated by 'sleb' authors, and I'll tell you why.

1. The books (particularly novels) are invariably bloody awful. Which I imagine puts off many a tentative 'reluctant reader' from dabbling with buying a novel again.

2. They get the publisher's full support; poster campaigns, front of store placement etc etc at great expense...sucking the investment/support away from unknown authors.

3. They're deeply discounted from day one. Which means quite often, the publisher barely covering their costs.

4. Publishers more often than not lose huge amounts of money on celeb deals...

5. ....which means unknown authors, successful debut authors, midlist authors are carrying the publisher's losses racked up by these feckin' pampered morons.

I do draw a very clear line between celebs who have genuinely worked at building their name, and after a full life publish their memoires....and the Hiltons, Ritchies, Osbournes, Goodys....who really haven't had to work at all at getting famous, who have more money than they need....but still it isn't enough and they're more than happy to trade on their name to steal the few crumbs of profit that can be made from the novel-writing business.

I hate celebrities....but even more, I hate those publishers who seem to be in thrall to celebrity and shiny famous people, chasing and offering silly deals for flavour-of-the-month celebs and then - time after time - lose their shirts over it when the books fail to shift.

[Garpy]

If Paris Hilton and Nichole Richie's books sell, then by proof of the free market, they have every right to be on the shelves. If they don't sell, then by proof of the free market, they will not have new books appearing on the shelves.

And by standards of the free market, you do not have to buy their books.

There's nothing wrong with capitalism. It works quite well, even when it comes to art.

Wtf? Thanks to free market forces I've now got two hundred channels of digitally broadcast crap to sift through to find the very occasional nugget of quality to watch on TV. Thanks to good ol' bleedin' unfettered capitalism we're all looking down the barrel of a very nasty recession. Thanks to wonderful capitalism we've got a global energy security nightmare ahead of us with Russia all of a sudden holding all the cards....

...and thanks to bloody capitalism the classics of tomorrow lie undiscovered at the back of the bookstore filed under A-Z, whilst centre tables are piled high with celebrity generated crap.

*sigh*

[chevbrock]

I think it determines whether you are talking about a "celebrity" or whether you are talking about a "performer" or "artist".

Some people are famous for being a great actor or musician. I think it's not surprising that these people tend to cross over and do other things that are creative. You may have heard of an author named Judy Nunn. She used to star in an Aussie soapie over here for years before she starting writing books.

However, if you are talking about "celebrities", who are famous just for being famous, bringing out books, well, it's just sad that the poor ghostwriter doesn't get the credit for making them look good. Then again, it may not be a bad thing that they don't get a mention! Either way, they get a good paycheque and that is really all that matters, isn't it.

[seun]

Dang....I missed the start of this debate.

I'm coming in on Suzy-B's side. I get incredibly irritated by 'sleb' authors, and I'll tell you why.

1. The books (particularly novels) are invariably bloody awful. Which I imagine puts off many a tentative 'reluctant reader' from dabbling with buying a novel again.

2. They get the publisher's full support; poster campaigns, front of store placement etc etc at great expense...sucking the investment/support away from unknown authors.

3. They're deeply discounted from day one. Which means quite often, the publisher barely covering their costs.

4. Publishers more often than not lose huge amounts of money on celeb deals...

5. ....which means unknown authors, successful debut authors, midlist authors are carrying the publisher's losses racked up by these feckin' pampered morons.

I do draw a very clear line between celebs who have genuinely worked at building their name, and after a full life publish their memoires....and the Hiltons, Ritchies, Osbournes, Goodys....who really haven't had to work at all at getting famous,

Oh man. You're ME :D

[cletus]

Dang....I missed the start of this debate.

I'm coming in on Suzy-B's side. I get incredibly irritated by 'sleb' authors, and I'll tell you why.

1. The books (particularly novels) are invariably bloody awful. Which I imagine puts off many a tentative 'reluctant reader' from dabbling with buying a novel again.

2. They get the publisher's full support; poster campaigns, front of store placement etc etc at great expense...sucking the investment/support away from unknown authors.

3. They're deeply discounted from day one. Which means quite often, the publisher barely covering their costs.

4. Publishers more often than not lose huge amounts of money on celeb deals...

5. ....which means unknown authors, successful debut authors, midlist authors are carrying the publisher's losses racked up by these feckin' pampered morons.

I do draw a very clear line between celebs who have genuinely worked at building their name, and after a full life publish their memoires....and the Hiltons, Ritchies, Osbournes, Goodys....who really haven't had to work at all at getting famous, who have more money than they need....but still it isn't enough and they're more than happy to trade on their name to steal the few crumbs of profit that can be made from the novel-writing business.

I hate celebrities....but even more, I hate those publishers who seem to be in thrall to celebrity and shiny famous people, chasing and offering silly deals for flavour-of-the-month celebs and then - time after time - lose their shirts over it when the books fail to shift.
To help illustrate Garpy's point, may I refer you to a blog post on his blog he made about a year ago that reveals some of the "celebrity" authors advances and sales figures.
http://alexscarrow.blogspot.com/2006/12/celeb-biogs.html

It doesn't take a rocket scientist, mathematician, or even an economist to figure out that if a publisher pays someone a £1,000,000 (about $2,000,000) advance and only sells 20,000 copies they are going to lose a big chunk of money.

Why should that worry you or me? Because that translates into either lower advances for first time and mid-list authors, or cutting them out altogether.

[Torgo]

The windy bloviation about sleb books never ends, does it? It just goes on and on and on, like every other variety of conspiracy theory designed to explain Why First Time Authors Can't Get Published (Despite Plenty of Evidence to the Contrary.) If there were half as much effort put in to actually writing books as there is expended bitching about how the publishing industry is broken/unfair/personally biased against you...

[seun]

The windy bloviation about sleb books never ends, does it? It just goes on and on and on, like every other variety of conspiracy theory designed to explain Why First Time Authors Can't Get Published (Despite Plenty of Evidence to the Contrary.) If there were half as much effort put in to actually writing books as there is expended bitching about how the publishing industry is broken/unfair/personally biased against you...

So people aren't allowed to give the view that pointless celebrities who are famous for being famous quite often write (or have written for them) total crap?

[Torgo]

So people aren't allowed to give the view that pointless celebrities who are famous for being famous quite often write (or have written for them) total crap?

I didn't say that, did I? Moan all you like, it's a free country. I've actually READ Madonna's terrible picture books, so I've done my share of moaning. But it's like Groundhog Day around here sometimes, isn't it?

[Garpy]

just venting a little frustration...that's all. You're right though, that nothing will change, and moaning is quite pointless. Publishers will keep chasing after Big Brother Evictees flourishing their cheque books; the brainless herd will keep buying Kerry Katona's or Britney Speers' mum's latest fictional offering...because they're stacked right at the front of the shop where you can trip over them.

Nothing will change.

Oh....except this....

Digital publishing (ebooks et al)...will eventually sink an industry that is so inept, it managed to lose money on Harry Potter.

[swvaughn]

I didn't say that, did I? Moan all you like, it's a free country. I've actually READ Madonna's terrible picture books, so I've done my share of moaning. But it's like Groundhog Day around here sometimes, isn't it?

Hey, Torgo! How goes? :D

I don't envy you having read Madonna's book. And I've no moaning to add to the topic, so I'll just squick right out of this thread, shall I . . .

[Torgo]

Digital publishing (ebooks et al)...will eventually sink an industry that is so inept, it managed to lose money on Harry Potter.

Eh?

[Torgo]

Hey, Torgo! How goes? :D

I grow steadily poorer and more irascible, which is the wonderful world of publishing for you. Actually, in a couple of days I'm off to France for three weeks to do painting and decorating, thus earning more money than I earned for the last book I wrote.

[swvaughn]

I grow steadily poorer and more irascible, which is the wonderful world of publishing for you. Actually, in a couple of days I'm off to France for three weeks to do painting and decorating, thus earning more money than I earned for the last book I wrote.

Sweeeet.

Oh, wait. I'm not allowed to say sweet any more. What I meant was, that is drippin'.

(Okay, tell me the secret to earning money through painting and decorating. It's gotta be easier than the one for earning money through writing -- right? :D)

Have a blast - I hope France is warmer than Upstate New York (or England!) this time of year.

[Torgo]

What you do is, you become romantically involved with a painter and decorator (this should ideally be one person, of course, not a painter and a decorator...) Then you persuade them to employ you as a labourer, using your various wiles. Should you be fresh out of wiles, I found flat-out begging worked for me.

France is going to be coooooold!

How are you doing, then?

[Garpy]

Um...I just feel like I've stumbled into somebody else's telephone conversation. :-)

[LeeFlower]

As far as celebrities depriving talented unknowns of their chance... not so much. I've never heard an editor mention a quota. If five books worth publishing cross their desk in one week, they make five offers. If nothing catches their eye for the month after that, they're not going to snap a bad book out of the pile and make an offer on it just because they need something to publish.

Have you written a damn good book? Is it marketable? If yes and yes, chances are it will get published. If no, chances are it won't. A meteor wiping out Hollywood won't change those odds (especially when the vast majority of 'celebrity' books are non-fiction, and you've written a novel).

And Paris Hilton's Paris Hilton. So what if the gossip rags have started calling her an 'author' because she said something at some party about writing a book? They've been calling her a designer for years, and I sincerely doubt she knows a bobbin from a batik. Do the sailors of the world get their knickers in a twist every time a yacht owner calls himself captain?

You're a writer if you produce written work. So write well and take pride in your craft. If you know you've earned your stripes, you don't need to worry about what the phonies are calling themselves.

[swvaughn]

What you do is, you become romantically involved with a painter and decorator (this should ideally be one person, of course, not a painter and a decorator...) Then you persuade them to employ you as a labourer, using your various wiles. Should you be fresh out of wiles, I found flat-out begging worked for me.

France is going to be coooooold!

How are you doing, then?

Oh, I'm just smashing. :D Fresh out of wiles, though . . . try to stay warm!

Um...I just feel like I've stumbled into somebody else's telephone conversation. :-)

Terribly sorry about that. :) I'll say something on topic!

Um . . . celebrities have far more money than me. That about covers it.

[SpeckyBrunette]

I agree with the original poster on this, and quite recently was debating this issue with a friend.

Celebs who have ACTUALLY WRITTEN their own books? I don't think that's unfair. Well it is a little, owing to the fact they obviously use their connections and profile to get their work published and out there, but like others have said - celebrities have the right to do this too.

They've worked hard themselves to get where they are - acting, singing, comedy all takes hard work. Singers and actors have to go through the same as what we as writers do in the beginning - auditions, rejections, auditions, rejections - until they finally get their breaks. It's just as tough.

However, when we're talking about celebs who don't even BOTHER to write and just have their names slapped across 'em - I TOTALLY understand you here.

Here in Britain we have to endure the likes of Jordan, Chantelle from Big Brother, Colleen (sp?) and Kerry Katona stacked on the bookshelves alongside our beloved Paris Hilton *cough*.

Jordan the huge-boobed glamour model, Chantelle who was a nobody until a reality TV show made her famous, a girl who's famous because she's going out with a footballer, and cocaine-addicted Kerry from the 'onleh moooms go ta aaaarse-looond' ads.

We all know that Jordan's books are ghostwritten. Chantelle? God knows. And I think Kerry's are mainly abuse memoirs/autobiography. Most likely ghostwritten also.

THIS kind of thing gets to me because books like this reek of tacky desperation. Like, 'quick! Get a book out, put your name on it and people will lap it up.'

Would the Jordan books get as much publicity if the person who wrote them didn't write them as Jordan? Would they even be published if they weren't Jordan? That's what's annoying.

[Garpy]

However, when we're talking about celebs who don't even BOTHER to write and just have their names slapped across 'em - I TOTALLY understand you here.

Yes....that's exactly who we're moaning about. And no one else.

[Torgo]

Would the Jordan books get as much publicity if the person who wrote them didn't write them as Jordan? Would they even be published if they weren't Jordan? That's what's annoying.

No and no. That said - why is it annoying? (Apart from simple jealousy of course.) If Kerry Katona sells lots of books, that subsidises other authors. If her book bombs, the publisher won't require another one.

I was somewhat mortified to find, at the British Book Awards the year before last, that Chantelle was handing out the book of the year award, but then as an occasional ghost-writer myself I realised somebody is making a few bob out of her.

[JeanneTGC]

No and no. That said - why is it annoying? (Apart from simple jealousy of course.) If Kerry Katona sells lots of books, that subsidises other authors. If her book bombs, the publisher won't require another one.

I was somewhat mortified to find, at the British Book Awards the year before last, that Chantelle was handing out the book of the year award, but then as an occasional ghost-writer myself I realised somebody is making a few bob out of her.
Yeah, and I'd be willing to be one who makes some of the bob, so to speak.

(Pammy A., call me. We'll do lunch, chat up how to spin your attraction to losers with money, it'll be a big, big hit.)

[JBI]

It works the other way as well. What about authors who become celebrities, and thereby have their books read. Is that fair?

Personally, I think everyone who says things aren't fair are hypocritical. The goal of almost every author is to sell books. If you become a successful author, and sell books, then your next novel will have the hype of your previous, and therefore sell faster. Advertisement is the fuel behind the selling of books. Thereby, if a book is more heavily advertised, be it by word of mouth or billboard ads, it will sell better. This is proven, otherwise they wouldn't advertise. By stating that you think it is unfair that they have access to this advertisement, than you are saying, "It is unfair that they are more popular than I am, and therefore will sell more."

The objectives in both cases may also be completely shaky. Many well off celebs, Conrad Black for example, write books. Black's long biographies barely sell, but they get exposure because of who he is. Is that unfair? The guy likes to write, gets a little exposure because he used to own the press, but still doesn't sell. His intentions in writing are far nobler than most of the above posters.

I think, as well, the world benefits from any available literature. Take Jenna Jameson, the Pornography super-star, for example; her book sold millions of copies, and perhaps had some influence on how the world saw pornography, and saw the women involved in this business. Is it unfair to say that a book like that should be published?

Or perhaps for example the autobiography Scar Tissue by Anthony Kletis. This book will inspire, or perhaps affect all its readers who are interested in music, his music, and the lifestyle/experiences behind the music. I think the world benefits from this work as well.


To say that it is unfair that someone sells because of their celeb status is ridiculous. Even Shakespeare sold because of his celebrity status, back in the day. As did many other great authors, such as Goethe, and Dickens. In fact, the only completely closeted writers I can think of are John Donne (Though he recited his sermons to public, but never published a poem), and Emily Dickinson (though she had I believe 6 poems published in her life time, historians are unaware if she even knew about the publication of them all). The truth remains that all writers who have no fame, with the intention of selling more than one book, have the same desires as those who have the fame. To sell. Dan Brown's first novels didn't sell, but when the Davinci Code hit the market, all of them became best sellers. Is that fair?

Is it fair that some author's mediocre works endure because they have published good works?

Is it fair that certain people's works fail to endure because of the politics of an author? A good example of this is Paul de Mann, the famous deconstructionist literary critic from Yale university, whose life's work went under serious criticism after the revelation of his Nazi support. Does this make his criticism less valid?

Should no one enjoy the music of Richard Wagner, Richard Strauss, or Carl Orff because of their political association? Is there work any less beautiful?

The spectrum works both ways, and it is unfair to hate someone for having what you want. Quit preaching that your intentions are any nobler than these people, because if they were, you wouldn't care.

Personally, if I sell, that's great, but if I don't, I won't quit my day job. We all are playing the same game pretty much (with the exception of a few great artists, such as Thomas Pynchon, and historically, George Orwell, though he had every intention of getting his work read). To state that it is unfair that someone is better than you at something, is like yelling at an author for being a better writer than you. Lame.

[ORION]

Publishing books are business. Readers buy people magazine because they want to read about celebrities- I highly doubt a true reader will be "put off" reading forever just because they read a poorly written book - average readers don't recognize a poorly written book- They just want to know what it's like being a celebrity...
There is no "pool of money" for publishers and if you write a publishable book you are not being "deprived" of publication just because Brittany's mom wants to write a parenting book.
Keep in mind if a publisher wants ANY book they can manage to get it and arrange for publication another year...and advances are NOT paid out all at once. You may hear of a million dollar deal but until you actually read the contract - that deal could be dependent on sales -- for instance my UK contract says if my book sells a certain number of copies in the first year I get an additional "advance"-
I KNOW it feels unfair BUT there are lots of reasons a book gets published and spectacular writing is very often not one of them...

[Shadow_Ferret]

Let's see if I understand this. We're ranting that celebrities are popular and that people can't get enough information on their favorite celebrities that they watch whole channels devoted to it, buy millions of magazines and newspapers dedicated to it, and purchase books about it?

All the while none of it has any effect upon what we write or try to sell?

Did I get it or did I miss the point?

[Torgo]

All the while none of it has any effect upon what we write or try to sell?

Did I get it or did I miss the point?

Your point seems to be that celebrity culture makes lots of money for publishers et al. If publishers make more money, it should really make it easier for you to sell things.

[Garpy]

Nope, I'm not 'ranting' that celebrities are popular. In fact, I'm jolly happy for them to be popular, bless 'em. No see...what I find a tad annoying is when lots of money gets thrown at celeb advances on books that end up completley tanking despite HUGE marketing campaigns.

It's just annoying. Not ranting there....just venting slightly.

[seun]

Sounds like a rant to me, Beardy. :tongue

I loathe people who are famous for no reason. The Jade Goodys of this world, for example. Famous for being thick, fat and quite amazingly ugly.

If someone is famous for an achievement or doing something, then fair enough. If someone has a story worth telling (someone mentioned Clapton way above), then that's cool. But the pointless gits who have their autobio published before their twenty-second birthday are the people who be shot.

[Garpy]

I am merely posting an opinion, expressed in the calm measured terms of one who is wise beyond his years. ;-)

Anyway...we agree.

[Shadow_Ferret]

Your point seems to be that celebrity culture makes lots of money for publishers et al. If publishers make more money, it should really make it easier for you to sell things.
No. My point is that the people who buy celebrity gossip or even celebrity novels aren't the same people who are going to buy my novels. Thus, no matter how many books the celebrities sell, it has no effect upon my audience and their discretionary income.

[JeanneTGC]

No. My point is that the people who buy celebrity gossip or even celebrity novels aren't the same people who are going to buy my novels. Thus, no matter how many books the celebrities sell, it has no effect upon my audience and their discretionary income.
But I'd disagree. Honestly, I believe that those people DO buy other kinds of books. I read People (at the salon); I've read plenty of celeb autobiograhies and biographies. I also read scientific non-fiction, all forms of speculative fiction, mysteries, horror, etc.

My buying a celeb's book has no bearing on whether or not I buy the next Terry Pratchett book. Simply because Pratchett is one of those authors whose books I buy the moment they hit the shelves, regardless of what else might be available. I think the general reading public is more open to things than many writers think.

And, I still feel if some "meaningless" celebrity manages to drag one person into reading, then that's one more person I have a shot of selling to.

[blacbird]

what I find a tad annoying is when lots of money gets thrown at celeb advances on books that end up completley tanking despite HUGE marketing campaigns.

It's more than annoying. It can materially affect the bottom line of the publishing company in such a way that makes it more difficult for the non-celeb writer to get stuff published. As I mentioned earlier, that very thing happened with Johnny Cochrane's tell-all on the O.J. Simpson trial.

Just because a celeb is, well, a celeb, doesn't guarantee a book by that celeb will actually sell. What it does guarantee, I guarantee, is a huge advance, usually for a book that doesn't yet exist and will almost certainly be ghost-written.

caw

[scarletpeaches]

No and no. That said - why is it annoying? (Apart from simple jealousy of course.) If Kerry Katona sells lots of books, that subsidises other authors. If her book bombs, the publisher won't require another one.

I was somewhat mortified to find, at the British Book Awards the year before last, that Chantelle was handing out the book of the year award, but then as an occasional ghost-writer myself I realised somebody is making a few bob out of her.

No, it's not about jealousy. It's really, really not. It's railing against bad books.

I mean, for goodness' sake. Jealous of Jordan? I think not.

Jealous of someone who's talented and deserves their fame? That's more like it.

[scarletpeaches]

Sounds like a rant to me, Beardy. :tongue

I loathe people who are famous for no reason. The Jade Goodys of this world, for example. Famous for being thick, fat and quite amazingly ugly.

If someone is famous for an achievement or doing something, then fair enough. If someone has a story worth telling (someone mentioned Clapton way above), then that's cool. But the pointless gits who have their autobio published before their twenty-second birthday are the people who be shot.

This reminds me of someone who was red-booked on This is Your Life when he was 21, 22. The first thing he said was "But I haven't done anything!"

Now, what was his name? Oh yes...Stephen Hendry. :D

[Shadow_Ferret]

But I'd disagree. Honestly, I believe that those people DO buy other kinds of books. I read People (at the salon); I've read plenty of celeb autobiograhies and biographies. I also read scientific non-fiction, all forms of speculative fiction, mysteries, horror, etc.

My buying a celeb's book has no bearing on whether or not I buy the next Terry Pratchett book. Simply because Pratchett is one of those authors whose books I buy the moment they hit the shelves, regardless of what else might be available. I think the general reading public is more open to things than many writers think.

And, I still feel if some "meaningless" celebrity manages to drag one person into reading, then that's one more person I have a shot of selling to.
I'd agree that if they can "drag" someone into reading, that's a good thing. My main point, and I seem not to be making it very well is, celebrities writing books and getting big advances and such have no bearing on what I do. I don't begrudge them what they do or write. Seems like a lot of wasted energy getting upset over something I have no control over.

[triceretops]

When I think of a class act and ordinary person who is a celeb in his own right, and who did, sometimes painfully, manage to knock out a couple of books because he truly loved the written word and expected no favors...I think of...

Wil Wheaton.

I do believe he appeared in our own SOS. Kind of says something there.

Tri

[JeanneTGC]

I'd agree that if they can "drag" someone into reading, that's a good thing. My main point, and I seem not to be making it very well is, celebrities writing books and getting big advances and such have no bearing on what I do. I don't begrudge them what they do or write. Seems like a lot of wasted energy getting upset over something I have no control over.
Ah, gotcha. And totally agree with you, too.

[Momento Mori]

triceretops:
When I think of a class act and ordinary person who is a celeb in his own right, and who did, sometimes painfully, manage to knock out a couple of books because he truly loved the written word and expected no favors...I think of...

I'll see your Will Wheaton (fnar fnar) and raise you a Hugh Laurie, who submitted The Gunslinger to agents under a pseudonym and got the manuscript picked up on its own right before anyone knew he was (then) Stephen Fry's comedy partner and Bertie Wooster.

blacbird:
Just because a celeb is, well, a celeb, doesn't guarantee a book by that celeb will actually sell. What it does guarantee, I guarantee, is a huge advance, usually for a book that doesn't yet exist and will almost certainly be ghost-written.

I agree with this. However, on the flip side, if the sleb book doesn't make back that huge advance, you don't tend to see them being offered further deals.

[benbradley]

I'm reminded of something I've read a few places, that an author's first published novel is often the author's best work. A manuscript by an unpublished, unknown author has to stand on its own as a good quality work, because there's no other reason for a publisher to buy it or for anyone to read it. It's easier to sell a novel if you're already a published novelist (if the first book has sold much at all, there's a built-in audience for another novel), and this often results in later novels being lower quality.

Popular writers are often as much celebrities as are public figures in other fields who write books, and no doubt publishers will take that into account when deciding to accept a manuscript.
I guess I don't care. I doubt that my audience and a celebrity's audience are the same and that they'd steal sales away from me.

Wait. Shatner writes Sci-Fi, right?

Bastard!
I was wondering if his name would come up here. I bought and read his original Tekwar novel way back when, perhaps even against my better judgement at the time. I actually hesitated to do it, as some of the reasons in this thread came to mind (would he really make a decent author, or is he and the publisher just cashing in on his name?), but I took the chance.

That decision didn't work out well. I read the whole thing but didn't like it, and it was an easy enough decision not to buy further novels in the series. What amazes me is that so many more books in the series were published (nine total):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tekwar
There's this at the end of the article, which is something I vaguely suspected all along. I have only a little doubt Shatner wrote them, but I have to admit if I had found the story more enjoyable, I might have greater suspicion that they were ghostwritten:
There are unsubstantiated rumours that the novels were ghostwritten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostwriter) by Ron Goulart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Goulart). Speaking on the subject, Shatner has said that although Goulart was involved in the proofreading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proofreading) process of the books and often helped him in re-writing segments, the books were in fact written by Shatner himself from his original outlines.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

[Smiling Ted]

I think we're all missing the most important fact in this thread.

Lynne Spears? Is writing a book on PARENTING?

MWA-HA-HA-HA!!!!

[Shadow_Ferret]

There's this at the end of the article, which is something I vaguely suspected all along. I have only a little doubt Shatner wrote them, but I have to admit if I had found the story more enjoyable, I might have greater suspicion that they were ghostwritten:
I read the first Tekwar out of curiosity. I didn't think it was bad. It just came at a time when I was losing interest in Sci-Fi altogether.

But I thought the Ron Goulart rumor was fact. I guess what I thought was fact isn't proven.
I think we're all missing the most important fact in this thread.

Lynne Spears? Is writing a book on PARENTING?

MWA-HA-HA-HA!!!!I believe that is on permanent hiatus.

[KTC]

I have no problem with this. I don't really think anybody should.

#1 bad books get published ALL the time. Too bad, so sad. You don't have to be a celeb to get your bad book published. If people don't like it, too bad for them. I can't be jealous if a celeb gets published. That's their experience, man, not mine. I think it's pathetic that somebody would have a problem with it based on this why-should-they-get-published-just-because-they're-famous whiny rant. That is just pathetic. Suck it up. Write something that will sell and get over yourself. Some celebs get book deals just because they're celebs, yes...but guess what...that has more to do with the status ordinary non-celebs give these yahoos. It's called taking advantage of the fact that yits will spend money to buy the book just to have everything for the collection of their idol. So, yeah...you really have to get over it. There is room for every great writer...if you're a great writer, chances are you'll get published. If you're a shit writer, it doesn't matter how many celebs get published...it ain't gonna happen for you because you're shit...not because the celebs are edging you out.

#2 sometimes celebs write books people like...or dare I say LOVE. I hold Ethan Hawke up as an example. I've read both The Hottest State and Ash Wednesday. I'm not saying they're the best novels out there...but I love both books. I enjoy his voice. I look forward to the next novel. I will buy it on its release day...not because the author is Ethan Hawke the actor...but because I like his writing. I don't really give a shit about celebrity to tell you the truth. I like celebs based on what their work does for me, not on who they are.

[blacbird]

Lynne Spears? Is writing a book on PARENTING?

I believe that is on permanent hiatus.

The book, or the parenting?

caw

[JohnDavidPaxton]

Celebrities? Getting special treatment?

I've never heard of such nonsense.

[Garpy]

I have no problem with this. I don't really think anybody should.

#1 bad books get published ALL the time. Too bad, so sad. You don't have to be a celeb to get your bad book published. If people don't like it, too bad for them. I can't be jealous if a celeb gets published. That's their experience, man, not mine. I think it's pathetic that somebody would have a problem with it based on this why-should-they-get-published-just-because-they're-famous whiny rant. That is just pathetic. Suck it up. Write something that will sell and get over yourself. Some celebs get book deals just because they're celebs, yes...but guess what...that has more to do with the status ordinary non-celebs give these yahoos. It's called taking advantage of the fact that yits will spend money to buy the book just to have everything for the collection of their idol. So, yeah...you really have to get over it. There is room for every great writer...if you're a great writer, chances are you'll get published. If you're a shit writer, it doesn't matter how many celebs get published...it ain't gonna happen for you because you're shit...not because the celebs are edging you out.



I'd like to think those of us who have voiced an irritation with sleb offerings have not been issuing a 'whiny rant'. I believe, in fact, it is just a stated point of view. That's all. And what's more I'm reasonably confident I'm not pathetic. :-)

But to deal with a more important point raised in your post - that celebs aren't edging out genuine writers, well....the bottom line is this - when it comes to shifting books from book shops, there's only ONE important variable - it's not what genre you're in, what your cover looks like, whether you have any sexy cover quotes, or your price point....no. It's whether or not your book is stacked high on those central tables. That's it. That's the most important thing. Now simple logic dictates that your local B&N/Borders/Waterstones has a finite amount of centre-table space. If you care to make note of what's stacked there right now, you'll find it's at least 50% sleb biogs, sleb-linked assorted miscellany or....perish the thought, sleb-authored fiction.

The table space taken up with that crapola, means legitimate authors displaced to the A-Z shelves, where they are very unlikely to be browsed by a punter and picked up.

Yeah...it's sour grapes. There ya go, sorry...I'm only human. I just wish greedy slebs looking to squeeze the money titty would go find some other medium to strip mine.

[KTC]

Again...to whine about it is fruitless. Life is what life is. We feed the celebs...we eat ourselves. I say get over it.