antagonist

[avid-dreamer]

Hi. What page would you guys introduce your bad guy? I was reading a Script Writing for Dummies and it said that the antagonist should be introduced within the first 10 pages. I s this a hard and fast rule?
Thanks people!

[dpaterso]

I'd call it a rough rule of thumb, an advisory guideline, rather than a hard and fast rule.

Advise like this is geared toward prompting the aspiring spec screenwriter to get the story up and running with interesting characters as soon as possible.

Since the antagonist represents the conflict your main character/protagonist will encounter throughout the story, introducing him/her/it within a reasonably short time may benefit your script. Of course it depends on a lot of things that only you know -- genre, pacing, etc.

-Derek

[NikeeGoddess]

many times we're introduced to the bag guy on page one but we just don't know he's the bad guy yet. sometimes we don't know who the bad guy is until page 90. and then your protag can be the bad guy... maybe just not as bad as the other bad guys so he's considered a good guy... but he's baaaad!

[nmstevens]

Hi. What page would you guys introduce your bad guy? I was reading a Script Writing for Dummies and it said that the antagonist should be introduced within the first 10 pages. I s this a hard and fast rule?
Thanks people!


In my opinion it is better to ask a different question.

The question you have to ask is -- when should your story begin?

Well, that's not as easy a question to answer as one might think -- because beginning a story too early is one of the classic beginner mistakes.

So here is my advice. Don't think in terms of protagonists and antagonists. Think of it in terms of "A problem."

Every story has one. In fact, every story is driven by a problem. Every story is about the solving of a problem (or about the failure to solve a problem).

That problem may be -- I love this girl but she's the daughter of the sworn enemies of my family.

The problem may be -- There's this rogue Great White Shark eating people in the vicinity of this New England Resort Community.

The problem may be -- A band of Roving Brigands is going to come back and steal all of this poor Medieval Japanese Village's food at harvest time and they'll all starve.

So when do we find out about the brigands in Seven Samurai?

First Scene. Page One.

What about the Great White Shark? Well -- we may not know exactly that it's a great white shark, but the first shark attack happens by page two.

Romeo and Juliet? The lovers don't meet for awhile but the problem -- the obstacle to their love -- the warring families -- established at the very beginning of the play.

There's a very good reason for this.

Until we know what the problem is -- the story hasn't started.

Now that problem may show up in the distance, looming on the horizon. We may not even be sure what it is -- yet it must put in an appearance in some form for the story to commence.

We don't need to meet the characters, find out about their past lives, their needs, their hopes, their dreams. Who cares?

Until there is a problem to solve, they are just a bunch of random people hanging around.

First -- show us the looming problem. Then we'll be perfectly happen to have you introduce all of that stuff about the main character having problems with his love life -- because then we'll be thinking -- hah, let's see how much he's going to be worried about his love life when those terrorists break in and take over the freaking Ocean Liner. Then he's really going to have something to worry about.

But you must -- must/must/must -- show us the problem up front.

I don't care about the protagonist, per se. The protagonist is simply a particular representation -- an agent -- an embodiment of the problem.

The problem we must establish up front -- Page One. Page Two. Page Three. If you've gone much beyond that and you haven't, in some fashion, established or foreshadowed the central problem of your story then you are starting your story too early.

NMS

[LIVIN]

The problem we must establish up front -- Page One. Page Two. Page Three. If you've gone much beyond that and you haven't, in some fashion, established or foreshadowed the central problem of your story then you are starting your story too early.


What if you only foreshadow it early? How overt must it be? How long can you go without getting into the crux of it?

I'm particularly thinking about a script I'm working on. I changed the ending today. I did this after realizing the new ending is the only possible ending. Of course, I thought this of the old ending.

So, there might be a possibility that my midpoint actually needs to be pushed back to the end of act 1 - condensing everything up until that point.

[NikeeGoddess]

So, there might be a possibility that my midpoint actually needs to be pushed back to the end of act 1 - condensing everything up until that point.this kind of analyzing can be a constant pressure on your storytelling brain. no one can really answer your questions without knowing your story the way you do. part of the process is getting feedback and constructive criticism from many different sources; taking that feedback and figuring out what is useful and what is not; and rewriting, and rewriting, and doing it all over again and again.

know that your story may never work. know that a lightbulb might ding over your head next month or next year... or two years from now after you've shelved the idea and a lightening bolt might strike and you know how to make that story work and you dust it off and start over again. this is when you realize how much you've learned over the past 2 years.

[nmstevens]

What if you only foreshadow it early? How overt must it be? How long can you go without getting into the crux of it?

I'm particularly thinking about a script I'm working on. I changed the ending today. I did this after realizing the new ending is the only possible ending. Of course, I thought this of the old ending.

So, there might be a possibility that my midpoint actually needs to be pushed back to the end of act 1 - condensing everything up until that point.


Without knowing any specifics, it's impossible to say -- but "foreshadowing" is acceptable, I would think, depending on how you go about foreshadowing whatever it is. Depending on how much information you give the audience will determine how patient they will be to wait for the actual "meat and potatoes" of the problem in substance to show its face.

NMS