This sounds terrible, but...

[SupplyDragon]

I have a question for anyone out there that can answer it.

And don't worry, I know exactly how bad this makes me sound. Please forgive my (possibly) uncharitable nature.

A friend of my brother is competing in an ameture short film festival, and I was asked to write him a screenplay. Now, I know nothing about screenplay writing, but I thought that perhaps a short story would do as well for the plot and he could handle the director stuff.

Now for the part that makes me sound somewhat ogre-ish. I have a story that I think would be right up his alley, but it is one that I was intending to submit upon its completion.

Can I let him have it and still submit it? Or is that not allowed? I really don't want to ruin my chances on the submission but on the other hand, I think it would be good for him - and I must admit I would love to see it on film. Can it be done? Any ideas?

Thanks in advance!

[Takvah]

Is anybody going to see this film? Could it possibly go anywhere beyond this type of venue? Is this film going to be posted to the internet? I think those are questions that have to be considered before people comment.

[SageFury]

Rules in film festivals are that the scripts can not be in any form or way in any process as of copyright, submissions outside the festival and basically has to be untouched from other festivals.

All festivals are different, they happen to be strict where I live...

[SupplyDragon]

Thanks to both of you, but I don't have the answers to those questions... yet. It hasn't been submitted yet - mostly cause it isn't done yet. As I understand it, it is just like it sounds. An ameture contest - but I am waiting for my brother to get back to me on the details.

[Maryn]

Check the rules of the specific film festival, for starters. What are their demands in terms of legal status of the story--not the script, but the story?

A script is not a short story. If you write a script telling Story A, and also write a short work of fiction telling the same story, these are two separate, copyright-able entities.

You could, of course, change character names (and possibly gender) for the major players and move your setting elsewhere in physical location or in time, then contend that each is an original work whole unto itself, because it would be. (Save the better one for yourself!)

Maryn, who is not a lawyer

[allenparker]

I, on occasion, write a script for my son, the up and coming next great director! (Look out Kevin Smith) Most film festivals he has attended have required a release from the writer. The release simply gives the production company the right to film the script, the festival the exclusive right to show the film (with some exceptions) and the distribution rights within the contract.

I have used my short stories often. Some festivals will allow the short story to be credited in the credits.

Just be sure you let everyone know what is going on and they usually will work with you.

[The Grump]

Isn't this a matter of rights?

If you sold the film rights to your friend, I should think you still owned the print (paper and e) rights. Isn't that why big agencies have subsidiary rights departments as well as international ones? Am I wrong?

[Linton Robinson]

Exactly. And people are assuming you want to submit the story to screenplay contests, but you are actually talking about sending it to journals, right?

There should be no conflict there, as obvious from the many film adaptations of books that are for sale.

Get story and script credit in the film. "Screeplay by Supply Dragon, based on his short story" or two credit lines.

Submit at will...I have never heard of a magazine requiring film credits. They buy first serial rights to print publication. If the film gets greatly seen and they have published your story, they will be delighted.

Just proceed, don't worry about this stuff.

[Smiling Ted]

1. Understand that you're not obligated to help you friend's career at the cost of your own. So you're not an ogre if you decide to pass on this.

2. A screenplay and a short story are not the same. Allowing someone to use your short story as the basis for a film will not hamper your ability to submit it to a literary market. We sell things like "first serial rights" to magazines, not "movie adaptation rights."

3. Find out the rules regarding story rights of the specific festival your friend wants to enter. Different competitions/festivals have different rules. Sounds obvious, no?

4. MOST IMPORTANT - Figure out what happens after the festival. If your friend never shows the film again, that's one thing. But what if it's a success, and money can be made from it? Or exposure? That may sound like a long shot, but South Park came into being from a single video Christmas card that was less than a minute long. Work out satisfactory compensation for future success (if any), write it down as a deal memo, and maybe even get a lawyer to look at it.

I know that #4 seems a little extreme, but I've been involved in exactly that situation, and I was deeply, deeply grateful that my brother is a lawyer and could help extricate me from a lousy deal.

Just my advice, for whatever it's worth.

[SupplyDragon]

I really had no idea if this was a 'big deal' or not. Just didn't want to step on any body parts (toes or otherwise) and be wrong about what I thought on how this kind of thing works in the real world.

I appreciate all your posts and all the advice.

Now I think I will return to the worlds of my making... They seem to make far more sense to me.

:snoopy:

SD

[nmstevens]

I have a question for anyone out there that can answer it.

And don't worry, I know exactly how bad this makes me sound. Please forgive my (possibly) uncharitable nature.

A friend of my brother is competing in an ameture short film festival, and I was asked to write him a screenplay. Now, I know nothing about screenplay writing, but I thought that perhaps a short story would do as well for the plot and he could handle the director stuff.

Now for the part that makes me sound somewhat ogre-ish. I have a story that I think would be right up his alley, but it is one that I was intending to submit upon its completion.

Can I let him have it and still submit it? Or is that not allowed? I really don't want to ruin my chances on the submission but on the other hand, I think it would be good for him - and I must admit I would love to see it on film. Can it be done? Any ideas?

Thanks in advance!


If you're talking about submitting it as a short story, there's no reason that you can't do that. What you certainly can't do (I hope you understand this) would be to submit it to anyone else in the form of a screenplay once you've conveyed the screen rights to your brother's friend.

This is one of those situations that needs that most arcane of all instruments -- The Written Contract.

Perhaps you've heard of these things -- and shocking though it may seem, they actually come in handy.

You don't need to be a lawyer -- all you need for a contract is an offering, an acceptance and "consideration" -- which can be money, but basically it means that something of value has to change hands in both directions (otherwise what you're talking about is a gift, which can't be bound by a contract).

Writing it down memorializes it -- it defines the "meeting of the minds" as they say.

So you write down "Brother's friend is going to get the "motion picture adaptation rights" for the story known as "XYZ" written by You. In return, you will get "Based on a story by You" credit in the finished film and in any sequel or any subsequent version of it. And if it makes any money (yeah, like that's going to happen) above and beyond the cost of production -- then you should get some money.

And he doesn't have the right to convey the rights to anybody else (like if somebody wants to make his short film based on your little story in an eighty million dollar movie -- they've got to come back to you, he doesn't get to sell it for a million bucks and just cut you out) without renegotiating the deal in good faith.

And you reserve all other rights of all kinds to the underlying material.

Then he signs it and you sign it. And he keeps a copy and you keep a copy.

Because the way I've seen it work over and over and over again is that everybody's just palsy-walsy and nobody ever bothers to sign anything -- we're all just sort of doing it -- and then disaster -- in the form of a great wanking mass of cash comes a'knocking. And then, strangely enough, nobody is palsy-walsy anyone. In fact, what happens next is much more along the lines of screwsy-yousie.

So if you want to do it, get it in writing.

NMS

[Daydreamer]

You don't need to be a lawyer -- all you need for a contract is an offering, an acceptance and "consideration" -- which can be money, but basically it means that something of value has to change hands in both directions (otherwise what you're talking about is a gift, which can't be bound by a contract).


Interesting. I was under the impression that you can write a "gift-contract" and that this would be just as binding to the gift maker. The difference to a contract where money is exchanged is how the contract effects the receiver when a third party's rights are violated. For example: if you buy stolen goods in good faith, you have to return them but get compensation. Yet if you receive a stolen good as a gift, then you have to give it back without compensation.
Am I wrong?

[Mac H.]

Interesting. I was under the impression that you can write a "gift-contract" and that this would be just as binding to the gift maker. The difference to a contract where money is exchanged is how the contract effects the receiver when a third party's rights are violated. For example: if you buy stolen goods in good faith, you have to return them but get compensation. Yet if you receive a stolen good as a gift, then you have to give it back without compensation.
Am I wrong?This is a bit jumbled - not quite 'wrong' but misleading.

If you give someone a gift, then the receiver owns the property after they accept it - you (the giver) can't insist on anything afterwards, nor can the person receiving the gift. So after the moment the gift is exchanged NEITHER party has any legal obligation to the other.

If you want the other party receiving your script to have any obligations to you AFTER the item is exchanged, then they must provide you with something of 'consideration' (eg: money - even a single dollar).

It gets a little more complicated with IP. Under copyright law EXCLUSIVE assignments of rights must always be done in writing .. a verbal contract doesn't apply. (One of the few exceptions to the idea of verbal contracts).

So I can give you permission to copy a photo I took, but if I want to give you EXCLUSIVE permission to make copies, then I need to do it in writing.

The issue of stolen goods can get confusing for IP as well. For example, if I shoot a film and interweave footage shot from a student film from the 1970s with Mel Gibson in it, can I advertise the film as starring Mel Gibson? It is possible that the 1970s contract with Mel Gibson for the student film doesn't cover every eventuality, so who owns the IP for that footage? One party might claim that I don't own the rights to repackage that footage ... so am I selling 'stolen' goods to the distributer?

In that case, courts often consider that 'B2B' transactions like this are between parties who are (or should) be proficient in the issues involved, so it is a LOT harder to get money back.

Mac
(PS: Like anything, there are obscure variations - real estate won't have been deemed to have been transferred without paperwork, etc .. but ignoring those...)
(PPS: Obviously there might still be some legal obligations to a gift - if I give you a car but neglect to tell you that it has no brakes and will kill you if you try and drive it, a court might decide that I had an obligation to tell you some time before you drove it. I'm ignoring those examples for the sake of arugment)
(PPPS: The Mel Gibson example wasn't totally random. There was a film on TV last night which starred 'Kylie Minogue'. It looked like it used footage from one of her student films .. because her role was that of someone who was conveniently murdered and never seen again after the student film was made! It seemed like an incredibly cheap way of getting a 'star' to agree to get murdered in the first scene of your movie. I'd hate to imagine the legal implications..)

[Daydreamer]

Thanks for clearing that up, Mac.