Guidelines for Using Brand Names, Locations, Song Titles, etc...

[Sahzee7]

Where can I find general guidelines for the use of song titles, the name of the aritist, and brand names in a manuscript?

[mammamaia]

the use copyright and trademark office at www.loc.gov (http://www.loc.gov)

hugs, maia

[James D. Macdonald]

Not really a Beware. This is sort of a Novels Board kinda thread.....

[icerose]

I've been told that you can use them as long as proper trademarks and quotations are in and such, but I don't know for sure. I hope some of the more experienced authors can answer one way or another to help you out. I personally just avoid them and save myself the hassle and worry.

Sara

[PattiTheWicked]

My understanding is that you can use the name of an artist, as in "Sally knew Jeff was home because Green Day was blaring from the kitchen radio," but you can't quote lyrics or even use song titles without getting permission.

So I couldn't say, "Sally walked in and heard Green Day singing "Brain Stew" on the kitchen radio," or "Sally walked in and heard Green Day singing, "I'm countin' sheep but running out." However, I could say, "Sally walked in and heard Green Day singing about insomnia."

[Jamesaritchie]

Using brand names and titles is not really a problem in fiction, but a little bit goes a very long way. Titles are not copyrighted, lyrics are. In nonfiction, you're supposed to use the trademark symbol whenever using a brand name, but this really doesn't hold in fiction. A trademark symbol just doesn't go over in narrative.

It would be a strange character who lived in a world that has no brand name products and no famous people and no famous songs.

A little bit of brand name use goes a very long way. It gets old fast. But there's nothing at all wrong with having a character drive a '65 Ford Mustang (Which is what Mike Hammer drove), or having a character drink a Bud Light, or saying you a character hears Frank Sinatra singing "I Did it My Way" on the radio. Thugh I'd probably write taht when the character stepped into the bar, Sinatra was on the jukebox sining about doing it his way.

It's really the same as using real locations. A character walks through Central Park, or goes to the top of The Empire State Building, or picks up a copy of The New York Times and scans the headlines.

Too many brand names reads poorly, but using some simply adds veristimilitude to a story. But it is like using cayenne pepper. . .too much is a bad thing.

Most often, a car is referred to as a car, or a character says, "I drank a beer," etc. But when needed, brand names and real people can make the difference.

You usually don't have to worry about this unless you write contemporary fiction set in the real world, and sometimes it's fun to make up your own brand names, your own music groups, complete with your own song titles and lyrics, but sometimes the real deal makes the difference in contemporary fiction set in the real world.

[stormie]

As James said, too many brand names reads poorly. Just make sure if you do use them, capitalize the first letter, as in "She passed him a Kleenex." Some writers do use brand names because the reader can identify with it. (Stephen King does.)

[aruna]

As James said, too many brand names reads poorly. Just make sure if you do use them, capitalize the first letter, as in "She passed him a Kleenex." Some writers do use brand names because the reader can identify with it. (Stephen King does.)

I should think that these companies would welcome the use of their names, as it is free advertising! Same with song lyrics; if the book became wildly popular and used the lyrics of an out-of-date song, that song would also gain popalarity.
I don't use lyrics in my books but the music listened to by my characters does help set the stage so a lot of song titles are used.

There was once a discussion among British authors about "product placement" in novels, saying just what I said before: if a novel uses their product's name then it's the author who really should get paid for the free ad. It's not a thing I'd welcome; we need less, not more commerialism in writing.

And do you remember the case of Fay Weldon, who was actually PAID (a large amount) by a jeweller to write a novel using their brand name in the title, and a story based on their jewellery? Though I like Fay Weldon, I thought it was an awful development.

[Garpy]

I'm thinking of working up an idea that involves some celebrities (dead and alive)...in a kind of parallel universe....ie: how their lives might have gone if things had been different.

I guess the same principle applies here as brand names....would I be sued to buggery if in this 'parallel universe' portrayed (for example) the Pope as a playboy, or MacDonalds as an evil pharmaceutical company? Or does one protect oneself with some sort of disclaimer ('the characters and brandnames used in this book, are merely coincidental and do not in anyway reflect upon the real persons/companies...etc....etc')

[Jaws]

Just a few comments on this in random order: That myth about "one can't use song titles" is precisely that. It's put forth by the two major music publishers for their own selfish interests; it has no legal foundation.
The similar myth about "can't quote any lyrics" is even more invidious, and has a similar source. I have yet to find a single case upholding an infringement claim for quoting two lines or less not including a proper name—and it's not for lack of trying. Fair use applies to song lyrics, too.
There's an entire (awful) school of so-called "K-Mart Realists" who continually used brand names in their fiction in the 1980s and 1990s, mostly as a substitute for real characterization and description. Contrary to what a lot of trademark holders claim, an author has no obligation to use a trademark symbol. An author probably should use trademarks properly—if only out of courtesy to another holder of creative rights—but need not do so if it would be ridiculous. For example, in dialog I am not going to say "Pass me the box of Kleenex brand facial tissues." I am going to say "Pass me the Kleenex"—precisely because that particular mark is so commonly used as the generic name. It's better if you can find a way to get around that, but it's not (strictly speaking) legally required.

[Uncletrunx]

For example, in dialog I am not going to say "Pass me the box of Kleenex brand facial tissues."

I'm going to try to talk like this for the rest of the day, just for giggles and to see what people do!

[maestrowork]

I try to avoid any type of product placement: tissue paper instead of Kleenex, toothpaste instead of Crest, canned soup instead of Campbell's. Usually the brands are just not that important. However, there are times when the brands are important (Coke vs. Pepsi, Reese's vs. M&Ms, Honda vs. Ford) that give the story some kind of authenticity and verisimilitude. My thought is, the brand has to be universal and well-known enough. I've read books in which the author mentions a brand like we should ALL know what it is (like a model of a car or a boat or something). That bugs me.

[Jens22]

There's an entire (awful) school of so-called "K-Mart Realists" who continually used brand names in their fiction in the 1980s and 1990s, mostly as a substitute for real characterization and description.

(raising hand timidly in class): you mean like Bret Easton Ellis?

[glendalough]

I have been reading over laws and it's making my head spin! I am working on a novel that takes place in Colonial Williamsburg, which is in my town. Well, CW OWNS this town, a lot of decisions are made based on what they want etc.

How do I know if it's legal to use CW as a setting for my book? I'd like to also include (favorable) local shops and areas within CW and the surrounding area. Is this a legal issue?

[maestrowork]

You can set your story anywhere you want.

[glendalough]

But if I, for example, have a story take place completely in McDonalds, would I owe them or need to contact them?

[ChaosTitan]

Real places pop up in novels all the time. You're fine.

[Lyra Jean]

Look what Twilight did for the town of Forks. Look at how many books and movies and television series are set in New York.

Obviously since you live there then you aren't going to make egregious location errors like replacing Main street with a swamp.

I say go for it.

[glendalough]

Thanks very much! I'm really excited! In one of my books I mentioned Jeep (as in I wish I had a Jeep to drive around in) over and over. I was worried about copyrights or trademarks and kept putting in that annoying little R in a circle.

[maestrowork]

Have you read any fiction? Did you see Stephen King put the ® every time he mentioned a car or a beer or something? Did you ever read a book set in a real place?

Don't sweat it.

[glendalough]

Yes, of course I have. But I also know that authors have blurbs about no place, person, event being real and work is fiction. I also know that many authors make up fake places (doesn't King? Derry is it?) because the things that happen in their stories are crazy or 'bad.'

I'm not going to sweat it. I just worry about legal stuff because you see so many stories on the web about things you would never have thought to worry about!

[maestrowork]

As long as you don't say things like "McDonald's food kills millions of people" you'd fine.

[glendalough]

Drat.

[gothicangel]

But if I, for example, have a story take place completely in McDonalds, would I owe them or need to contact them?

It depends, do you eat there often? :tongue

[glendalough]

I ran out on paying for a Happy Meal once, but only because I noticed a Jack-in-The-Box across the street.

[Detri Redmond]

So Lyra, are you saying we can't add in buildings or places of interest for the purpose of the story? Sorry op if it's against the rules to ask a question within a question.

[ChaosTitan]

Thanks very much! I'm really excited! In one of my books I mentioned Jeep (as in I wish I had a Jeep to drive around in) over and over. I was worried about copyrights or trademarks and kept putting in that annoying little R in a circle.

While there are occasional trademark holders who throw fits if you don't use the trademark attribution (Xerox is a good example), that's something that an agent can advise you on. Sometimes it's easier just to say "photocopies" instead of Xerox or "plastic bandage" instead of Band-Aid.

But locations are completely different. And a lot of other things (Jeep, Chevy, McDonald's) is practically free advertising.

[bluntforcetrauma]

I'm gonna base my next novel in Castle Rock. But seriously, folks--ive just finished destroying all 752 residents of a real town in Indiana. And they were such nice people.

[Susan Littlefield]

I have been reading over laws and it's making my head spin! I am working on a novel that takes place in Colonial Williamsburg, which is in my town. Well, CW OWNS this town, a lot of decisions are made based on what they want etc.

How do I know if it's legal to use CW as a setting for my book? I'd like to also include (favorable) local shops and areas within CW and the surrounding area. Is this a legal issue?

It's not a legal issue.

If you read as much as any writer needs to, you will know that stories are set in many different towns and cities all over the world.

You can use any town you want in your story.

[Susan Littlefield]

So Lyra, are you saying we can't add in buildings or places of interest for the purpose of the story? Sorry op if it's against the rules to ask a question within a question.

She suggests to retain accuracy about the town. A swamp in the middle of a town with none is different than adding a fictional restaurant on a fictional street. However, in my opinion, if I use a real town in a story, I will retain the accuracy as much as I can.

[ChaosTitan]

I'm gonna base my next novel in Castle Rock. But seriously, folks--ive just finished destroying all 752 residents of a real town in Indiana. And they were such nice people.

Stephen King burned down Terra Haute and blew up Las Vegas....

[writingismypassion]

Agree with what's been mentioned. Settings are fair game. Using Jeep is fine, too. As far as I know, the only time you'll have a problem with using name brands is when you start making negative comments. If your character has a Jeep, great. If you were to mention the Jeep brand is junk, you could face a lawsuit ~ if someone were to read it in your book, point it out to the manufacturing company, and said manufacturing company wishes to pursue the matter in court. Very unlikely. So, IMO, no problem with mentioning a character using a name brand.

[maestrowork]

if someone were to read it in your book, point it out to the manufacturing company, and said manufacturing company wishes to pursue the matter in court. So, IMO, no problem with mentioning a character using a name brand.

Even that is a big IF. You're not writing an article. This is fiction. I haven't really heard of any legal cases where the brands sued a novelist for using their products in a bad light. Cars blow up all the time -- you don't see GM going after the writers or filmmakers....

[Darren Frey]

I wish I knew this when writing TBR. I wanted to use St. Patrick's Cathedral in NYC but my wife said I might get sued.

[dangerousbill]

But if I, for example, have a story take place completely in McDonalds, would I owe them or need to contact them?

No, because your request would be referred to their lawyers, who would automatically say 'no'. If McD's is simply a neutral location for a story to happen in, you're on safe ground.

The only thing to be careful of is that McDonald's (or any other major chain outlet) not be presented in a bad way, as in characters complaining about the food or talking about how McD's food gives them indigestion or some such. Or even a murder in the washroom.

That said, McDonald's is notoriously litigious, especially about their so-called 'ownership' of the 'Mc' and 'Mac' prefixes, so don't refer to any of their Mc-something products by name, either. If you do anyway, mention in the fine print on the copyright page that 'McSludge' and 'McGrease' are registered trademarks of McDonald's Restaurants Corporation.

If it were my book, I'd choose or create a more individual, less sterile environment than a McDonald's.

[dangerousbill]

But seriously, folks--ive just finished destroying all 752 residents of a real town in Indiana. And they were such nice people.

Damn you. I'd already paid for my hotel room there.

[dangerousbill]

Cars blow up all the time -- you don't see GM going after the writers or filmmakers....

Isn't that what they call 'product placement'?

[job]

1) Google -- use + of + trademark + writer

2) Google -- libel + fiction

3) Google -- "real place" + fiction

4) Finish the manuscript

[jimbro]

Good advice in all these replies.

1. It's not illegal to use real places, persons or things by name. No permissions are required.
2. However, in the U.S., at least, anyone can sue anyone for any reason, regardless of the merit of their case or the likelihood of sucess of the suit. There's lots of pricks in the business world.
3. Probably easier to use generic names, but if you do use a real place, don't sweat it.

[OpheliaRevived]

Lol. As long as it isn't blatantly defamatory.

[Phaeal]

The poster above may have been kidding about Castle Rock, but if it's King's invention (and copyright far from expired on his novels), I'd wonder about using that particular location.

Anyone know the rules about using fictional locations invented by another author? Same as using another author's characters?

[maestrowork]

Anyone know the rules about using fictional locations invented by another author? Same as using another author's characters?

That crosses to copyright and trademarks. Harry Potter characters and locations, etc. are trademarked, I believe, so you can't use the name Severus Snape or Hogwarts. However, if you have a character named Julian Snape, I'm sure that's okay, although you'd draw attention to them since Harry Potter is so famous.

[Satchan]

Unless it's deliberately operating as a pastiche...like the Lovecraft universe writers. I'm not sure if you have to get permission for that, though.

[Paul Anthony Shortt]

What we're really talking about here is public domain and free use. The names of most real-world people and places are public domain, and a writer can feature them in their work. So Dan Brown doesn't have to pay royalties to the Louvre or the Freemasons for featuring them The Da Vinci Code. You don't need permission to feature a particular city or, for example, a city's police department in your book. An organisation like Colonial Williamsburg would likely be okay.

Similarly, most classical music, literature, and art is in the public domain because there is no existing copyright. Same with folklore and fairy tales.

Things can get murky when dealing with current brand names and trademarks. Harry Dresden drinks Coke in the Dresden Files and likes going to IHOP and Burger King, so it can be done.

Many uses of trademarked names can be covered under free use, such as using them in parody. Pop culture references are very popular in modern fiction, so it's likely that there is accommodation for it in trademark law.

What I would suggest is to just write your book. Your agent or publisher will tell you if anything needs to be changed. What I wouldn't do is worry about paying royalties. You shouldn't be paying anyone anything for having your book published unless you're going down the self-publishing route, so if your agent or publisher tells you something need to be changed for legal reasons, just change the name to something of your own creation or use a generic term.

[James D. Macdonald]

See also, Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom by Cory Doctorow. Set at Disney World.

[Lyra Jean]

So Lyra, are you saying we can't add in buildings or places of interest for the purpose of the story? Sorry op if it's against the rules to ask a question within a question.

No not in the least. I was saying he had an advantage by actually living in the location because if he wasn't sure about a specifically building's location it probably wouldn't be a huge deal for him to verify.

For example, if you wanted a real location for your story and mountains were an important part of the story then you can't set your story in Florida because there are no mountains. That is what I'm talking about.

[Drudoo]

I know this thread is old. Hopefully nobody will beat me up for reviving it =P

What if a character is an Apple fanboy. For most of my characters it is important to use a Mac and not a PC because of what the computer is capable of (good at music editing). Would it be ok to say something like 'She went over to her iMac'?

Also iPhone's are pretty normal nowadays and it would be kind of weird to say;
'He grabbed his smartphone and opened up an app for an online music service to download some music for offline playing while on the plane.'
Instead of; 'He grabbed his iPhone and opened Spotify to download some music for offline playing while on the plane'
Here there are two well known brands. But without them it sounds weird =/

[jaksen]

Today's hip and current products (or websites) might last forever - or they might fade as fast as AOL, MySpace and Limewire.

I'd used generics and just say he grabbed his phone and downloaded some music ...

Everyone knows what you mean. You wouldn't expect someone to write, "He opened his Westinghouse record player and put on an RCA, 45 rpm, vinyl record..." if the story were set in 1955.

[Kitty Pryde]

Today's hip and current products (or websites) might last forever - or they might fade as fast as AOL, MySpace and Limewire.

I'd used generics and just say he grabbed his phone and downloaded some music ...


Agree! When I read already-dated tech references in recently-released books, it causes me great LOLing as opposed to being an effective method of setting the time period.

Apple vs PC is pretty established rivalry, but I wouldn't put it past Apple to ditch the iPhone and come up with something new soon and we'll all be walking around with Granny SmithTM personal multimedia devices in the form of stylish visors like we're all Geordi LaForge or something. And then we'll all LOL at silly old planky shaped iphones that have to be held in our hands like in olden times, and no one will care what brand of phone your character is fiddling with.

On the other hand, characters who "post on their profile page" or "send instant messages" or "drop their music player in the toilet" do so without interrupting the fictional dream for the reader to LOL at the cheesiness of having an AOL account (with apologies to any extant AOL users all up in the 21st century).

[Jamesaritchie]

Today's hip and current products (or websites) might last forever - or they might fade as fast as AOL, MySpace and Limewire.

I'd used generics and just say he grabbed his phone and downloaded some music ...

Everyone knows what you mean. You wouldn't expect someone to write, "He opened his Westinghouse record player and put on an RCA, 45 rpm, vinyl record..." if the story were set in 1955.

Yes, precisely why no one reads novels written before last year if they contain brand names.

And why, of course, historical writers never, ever use brand names that people of this century wouldn't recognize.

Sometimes brand names are not needed, but we don't live in a generic world, and if you think outdated brand names sound wrong, try reading a novel where nothing is named.

Worrying about dating your work is pointless, and impossible. Brand names or not, every novel dates itself.

[JayMan]

Yes, precisely why no one reads novels written before last year if they contain brand names.

And why, of course, historical writers never, ever use brand names that people of this century wouldn't recognize.

Sometimes brand names are not needed, but we don't live in a generic world, and if you think outdated brand names sound wrong, try reading a novel where nothing is named.

Worrying about dating your work is pointless, and impossible. Brand names or not, every novel dates itself.
Exactly.

I've never seen a Studebaker in my life, but when I see that in a novel from the 50s or 60s, I know that the author is talking about a car.

[Kitty Pryde]

Yes, precisely why no one reads novels written before last year if they contain brand names.

And why, of course, historical writers never, ever use brand names that people of this century wouldn't recognize.

Sometimes brand names are not needed, but we don't live in a generic world, and if you think outdated brand names sound wrong, try reading a novel where nothing is named.

Worrying about dating your work is pointless, and impossible. Brand names or not, every novel dates itself.

I've read lots of current literature that avoids brand names. While car make and model and newspapers and manufacturers and name brand foods tend to last decades and come to represent certain things in pop culture (like Twinkies!), computer and mobile phone and other high tech stuff has a much shorter lifespan. Myspace went into decline after only 5 years, and now it's full of nothing but little kids and struggling bands. Napster only lasted a few years. The iMac G3 was so brightly colored and beautiful that people went wild over it but it only survived three years. Car phones only lasted about a decade of common use, and now the mere image of a person using a car phone is a sitcom gag. Nomad mp3 players only survived 3 years, and thought they predate iPod nobody knows of them. Etc etc

[dangerousbill]

... or MacDonalds as an evil pharmaceutical company?

Bad example. McDonald's is notoriously litigious. They'll even cross swords at dawn over the use of the 'Mc' prefix on any product that isn't theirs.

Also beware Disney. It's the company that sent a team of lawyers into Sarajevo after the siege to investigate reports that their movies were being shown on TV without permission.

Made-up names aren't subject to changes over time anyway. Real names are: If your character is in McDonald's eating a McRib sandwich, well, the McRib hasn't been sold for some years, except sporadically in some markets, so most people won't know what you're talking about. Better to make up a name and avoid complications.

[Susan Littlefield]

I have been away since yesterday, but just returned. And, while away, I thought of one of Stephen King's short stories in Full Dark, No Stars, where he creates a character out of a Tom Tom GPS. It was great!

[Erika_Lindsen]

Think "Where the heart is" as her giving birth in Wal-MArt

[IceCreamEmpress]

You can set anything you want at Colonial Williamsburg.

The only thing that might be iffy would be writing something that implied that the management of Colonial Williamsburg are up to nefarious skulduggery.

Someone murdering her sister-in-law while they're both guests at Colonial Williamsburg? Just fine.

The management of Colonial Williamsburg setting up a scheme to abduct children? I can't imagine that would fly with a publisher's attorneys.

When I have published things set in real-life locales or organizations, I have gotten a memo from the legal department saying things like "This embezzling vice-president for marketing in chapter 16, that isn't a recognizable portrait of any real-life vice-president for marketing at this business, right? Make sure nobody thinks it is."

[Atlantis]

If you're really that worried you can add a section at the back that is a bit like a reference page. I finished let the right one slip in a month ago and he had something like that. The title of his book was based off the title of a song. He made a reference to it so there was no problem. You do not need to put (c) or (r) or in text references in your actual story. Just a little section at the back will be fine. He used loads of qoutes and poems that he referenced as well.

In relation to your actual question, I've read books that started off with a note at the beginning that would say something along the lines of 'Town X does exist but it is not populated with vampires in real life, there is not a cafe next to the church, and there is not a hidden graveyard behind the petrol station. The author has added these for the story." So they're basically saying it's a real life location that they have altered just a bit for creative purposes.

You don't really need to do that though. Like everyone else has already said, unless you are going to bad mouth a town or a business or someone personally in fiction, you do not need to cite anything. But you can if you want. It won't hurt.

[Atlantis]

If you're really that worried you can add a section at the back that is a bit like a reference page. I finished let the right one slip in a month ago and he had something like that. The title of his book was based off the title of a song. He made a reference to it so there was no problem. You do not need to put (c) or (r) or in text references in your actual story. Just a little section at the back will be fine. He used loads of qoutes and poems that he referenced as well.

In relation to your actual question, I've read books that started off with a note at the beginning that would say something along the lines of 'Town X does exist but it is not populated with vampires in real life, there is not a cafe next to the church, and there is not a hidden graveyard behind the petrol station. The author has added these for the story." So they're basically saying it's a real life location that they have altered just a bit for creative purposes.

You don't really need to do that though. Like everyone else has already said, unless you are going to bad mouth a town or a business or someone personally in fiction, you do not need to cite anything. But you can if you want. It won't hurt.

[bearilou]

Also iPhone's are pretty normal nowadays and it would be kind of weird to say;
'He grabbed his smartphone and opened up an app for an online music service to download some music for offline playing while on the plane.'
Instead of; 'He grabbed his iPhone and opened Spotify to download some music for offline playing while on the plane'
Here there are two well known brands. But without them it sounds weird =/

I'm not all that technologically hip so I don't know what Spotify is just on name recognition. It's only through further clarification that it's an app to download music. So the first sentence, while more vague doesn't sound any less 'weird' than the second to someone who doesn't really care what app you use to download. It's only important (I guess) that the action was done.

I think you can go too far with product placement in writing though. It begins to sound like a shopping trip than a story.

[IceCreamEmpress]

"He grabbed his phone and downloaded some music for the plane" is fine. Who cares what app he used to download it?

If you were talking to a friend about your trip, would you say "I took my iPhone and used Spotify to download some music" unless you were specifically talking about the tech ("and it was much faster than using TuneWiki on my Sidekick")?

[maestrowork]

See also, Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom by Cory Doctorow. Set at Disney World.

And that's a great example, since Disney is very litigious. They sue everything and everyone.

However, is the book satire? There is a whole different set of rules when it comes to satires. That's why South Park could make fun of Tom Cruise and not get sued.

[GlobalWolf]

For example, in dialog I am not going to say "Pass me the box of Kleenex brand facial tissues." I am going to say "Pass me the Kleenex"—precisely because that particular mark is so commonly used as the generic name. It's better if you can find a way to get around that, but it's not (strictly speaking) legally required.

I think Kleenex might be one of the few that has taken someone to court over this and been successful in their case, actually. I think the reason was that the author referred to Kleenex tissue when he could just as easily have referred to any generic tissue, and Kleenex wants to protect its brand from falling into common use. Generally, if you want to set a novel in the real world, courts are likely to be more understanding about the necessity to refer to a Ford Mustang than they are to understand why the printer paper has to be Xerox, particularly if it's a situation where a company is fighting a losing battle over controlling the use of its trademark in the popular culture (like with Kleenex).

[shaldna]

Exactly.

I've never seen a Studebaker in my life, but when I see that in a novel from the 50s or 60s, I know that the author is talking about a car.

I always thought that was some sort of cake. Shows how things get lost in translation.

[AKyber36]

When it comes to peppering a story with brand names, I've seen quite a bit of it in William Gibson's stories. Pattern Recognition comes to mind and it was all about advertising and branding. He must've mentioned Buzz Ricksons (the jacket), Starbucks, and any number of noticeable brands and companies in that book. If he can do it without being sued for an arm and a leg plus a kidney, I guess it should be fine.