Questions/general comments [Archive] - Absolute Write Water Cooler

JennaGlatzer

03-15-2005, 03:23 AM

1. None of the above. It'll just give you an idea of the basic framework of the competition, but I pretty much already outlined it.

2. Hmm. Preferably not, because the judges will probably read as they go along, and I don't want to force them to re-read everything after the deadline. That'll slow down the judging process.

three seven

03-15-2005, 06:10 AM

Can entrants edit their entries after they are posted, up to the deadline?
It'd be safer to make sure your entry is complete and edited to your satisfaction before you post it. After all, not many of those singers got a second shot at their audition!

Obviously entries will be thoroughly considered and reconsidered, but we won't be going back to re-read entries wherever we see an edit record, and if we've already noted something sinister which you later remove, the correction is likely to be disregarded anyway.

EDIT: By the way, that sounded like my mean and moody voice, but it wasn't meant to!

DaveKuzminski

03-15-2005, 06:14 AM

Well, I should have read the rules first. The only thing I edited was the spacing for the title and byline since those mushed up at first.

three seven

03-15-2005, 06:26 AM

No worries Dave, you did it so quickly it wasn't even recorded. It'll be fairly obvious where people have made an oh-crap-I-forgot-the-title type edit right after they post, so that's nothing to worry about.

rtilryarms

03-15-2005, 07:15 AM

I love what you are doing Jenna.

SRHowen

03-15-2005, 07:55 AM

hmm, well I didn't title mine--simply my WIP, and I edited because the font sucked.

Shawn

DeadlyAccurate

03-15-2005, 08:25 AM

Should we edit or asterisk any foul language?

Melina

03-15-2005, 04:08 PM

Just reading what's already been posted--this is gonna be one heck of a contest! Good work so far, everyone! Looking forward to new entries!

Melina

three seven

03-15-2005, 04:17 PM

Should we edit or asterisk any foul language?
If it's important to know which word you've used, you should disguise it yourself - otherwise the whole word will be blanked out and we won't know what you meant. ;)

JennaGlatzer

03-15-2005, 04:41 PM

Ah, good point.

Yes, I have certain words set to asterisk-out here, but if you need us to know that a character said, "S h i t!", just put spaces between the letters.

And no worries on the editing for format, adding titles, etc. That's totally fine. You *can* edit your entries at any point, but just know that the judges are reading as they go along, so they may not keep re-reading a piece that's been fixed up. It should be in competition-ready form when it's posted.

MacAllister

03-15-2005, 04:48 PM

What a very cool and groovy idea, Jenna--I'm really enjoying the entries, as they come in. Dang, what a talented bunch. :) This should be fun!

emeraldcite

03-15-2005, 06:57 PM

i love idol.

can moderators play? i made an entry, but will withdraw if i have to (or because i have nude photos on an adult website or family troubles...something like that)

three seven

03-15-2005, 07:23 PM

As far as I know the only people excluded are admins, supermods, judges and vote counters.

Kida Adelyne

03-15-2005, 08:22 PM

This is a really neat idea. I've never seen American Idol, or canadian Idol or anything like that. do they have people who just go up for the fun of it, with no intention of winning? I'm going to do that here.

So, question.
I normaly write humour, or fantasy, but I have a great thoughtful piece that fits into the audition requirements. Should I submit that, or should I try for somthing that shows my usual writing style?

maestrowork

03-15-2005, 08:24 PM

Kida, show your best stuff in a audition (it doesn't matter if you sing jazz or pop or rock or funk or rap...) Pick something that "wows" us. Anything.

skylarburris

03-15-2005, 08:54 PM

I also edited immediately after posting, to delete the last paragraph to make sure I was under the word count. No further editing.

ZaZ

03-15-2005, 09:08 PM

If only I was a short, curvy brunette.

awatkins

03-15-2005, 11:51 PM

Wow! I just read all the entries and there's some great stuff there! Can't wait to see this thing progress. Cool idea, Jenna! :)

Kevin Yarbrough

03-15-2005, 11:59 PM

Just added my bit. Jenna, I say the finalists should be flown to your house and you set them on some kind of Survivor type thing. I can see it now.

Jenna: "We are now going to clean my house, the first team to finish their tasks first will be granted immunity. I'll see you all tonight at the writers council."

Hummingbird

03-16-2005, 12:43 AM

This is going to be fun! Great idea!!

JennaGlatzer

03-16-2005, 12:48 AM

Kevin: That was the best idea ever.

Oh, and exclusions: The only people who can't enter are the judges and vote-counter and me. Everyone else (mods, supermods, etc.) is free to enter.

Joe Calabrese

03-16-2005, 12:54 AM

And screenwriters are excluded, because if they could write traditional prose, they wouldn't be writing action, characters, dialog and locations all in neatly labelled, separate sections on the page.

Seriously, what about us screenwriters? What do we do?

JennaGlatzer

03-16-2005, 12:57 AM

Joe: Screenplay format is totally fine.

Kevin: Ya bum. Cut down that entry or it'll be disqualified. That's well over 700 words. Did any of those people who kept singing get to Hollywood? Sheesh!

underthecity

03-16-2005, 01:04 AM

I decided to sex things up with my entry :) , that is, in the historical context.

But my post is 730 words. Is that too many? Should I <gasp> edit it further?

underthecity

Kevin Yarbrough

03-16-2005, 01:12 AM

Joe: Screenplay format is totally fine.

Kevin: Ya bum. Cut down that entry or it'll be disqualified. That's well over 700 words. Did any of those people who kept singing get to Hollywood? Sheesh!
Depends Jenna. If they came back the next season a couple did I think. But alas, you are boss, head honcho, the big cheese, the big kahuna, the almighty kemosabi, etc. Will dwindle down my story to make it easier on the eyes.

Edit can be a bad word you know.

paprikapink

03-16-2005, 01:12 AM

One entry per contestant?

One vote per voter?

-pkpk

Kevin Yarbrough

03-16-2005, 01:20 AM

Done Jenna. As for your bum comment? If you don't watch it I might start thinking you are flirting with me. Only people who love me call me a bum, everybody else just calls me dumba s s.

three seven

03-16-2005, 01:30 AM

Everyone else (mods, supermods, etc.) is free to enter.
That's great, except that the supermods have got access to the judges' room.

JennaGlatzer

03-16-2005, 04:07 AM

Good point. I'll go see if I can make it inaccessible. :)

And yes, I'm serious about the 700 word thing. Anything over that (not including title) gets disqualified.

DaveKuzminski

03-16-2005, 04:42 AM

Not including title? Oh, I can see it now. A 40,000 word title for a two-word short story. ;)

Nateskate

03-16-2005, 04:57 AM

This is just so cool. Thanks for doing this. I'm sure one day winning this award will be a fast way to find an agent.

Arggghhh, I have so many projects going on, I'm not sure I have the mental energy to whip something together. Life is so much about timing. At anyrate, I've been reading the submissions, and they are enjoyable.

underthecity

03-16-2005, 05:49 AM

And yes, I'm serious about the 700 word thing.
All right, Jenna, why don't you ask me to drain some of my blood? :Sun:

Without the title line, my selection now stands out 697 words; I cut two sentences out. I guess it's still OK without them. <big sigh>

Now, will mine be the only history entry?

underthecity

akaa1a

03-16-2005, 07:51 AM

Voila...the wet noodle!

Should we worry that ideas or actual text is stolen from the competition? I'm fairly new to this game and while I'm sure that I won't have to worry about my writing being pilfered, there may be some authors with concerns.

I'm going to go wring out now! (drip, drip)

JennaGlatzer

03-16-2005, 08:22 AM

I'm sure one day winning this award will be a fast way to find an agent.

One day, huh? We'll see about that. ;)

Aka, that's a legitimate concern. Of course, you run that same risk when you publish your work anywhere. Anytime you show your work to the public, whether that's by publishing it in a magazine, book, e-zine, or in a forum, you're always at risk that someone will plagiarize it or "steal" the ideas (which aren't subject to copyright). Completely up to you if you want to take that risk.

It frustrates the heck out of me that it's just my market listings that get plagiarized. (What... is my other stuff not good enough to steal? Huh, people? Huh?)

tab

03-16-2005, 09:24 AM

Ugh, I forgot to edit the bad word type parts out of my essay and I fear it might be a little too edgy. You can remove it if you'd like. I apologize.

hapsburg

03-16-2005, 11:41 AM

You've stated that after the finalists are chosen themes will be set for following weeks. How many weeks? How long do you intend for this competition to go on?

QuietDreamer

03-16-2005, 02:17 PM

Man, the word count really killed me with the last story I wrote. I'm a very descriptive writer that thrives on being able to set a scene, which is very hard with the word count. I do agree that the word count is very necessary though and despite the original complications of writing it, I believe my story turned out pretty good! I'd like to thank everyone that made this contest possible and wish everyone the best of luck!

Also, I don't own Microsoft Word or any program that will allow me to do a word count on my computer so I had to use an online word count. Though only two of them gave me the same count (700 even), the third one gave me a count of 696, so I'm not 100% sure if it's under 700 or not, (because of the fact that I was giving a different word count for the third word counter) so if my story is over 700 words, please don't disqualify me! I can delete a few words. :)

"The New Guy"
QuietDreamer (Chris)

P.S. - If anyone could word count it using MSWord and let me know if it's over/under 700, please let me know, thanks!

Rob-rite

03-16-2005, 02:52 PM

If only I was a short, curvy brunette.

Do you think it would make a difference?

I mean, I'm brunette but I'm not short and curvy though my buttocks are apparenty legendary (it's a long story).

BTW. love your website - 'tis a haven in a sometimes brutal cyberworld...

MacAllister

03-16-2005, 03:00 PM

Chris, my MS Word has your story at 696 words. :) I excluded the couple of sentences you introduced yourself with, and the couple of sentences you closed with--just took the word count on the story itself.

Welcome to AW!

emeraldcite

03-16-2005, 05:49 PM

Jenna:

Can we have an official word count method? I think that this might ensure fair word counts.
Thanks!

best,
matt

three seven

03-16-2005, 05:50 PM

There is an official wordcount method.

emeraldcite

03-16-2005, 07:47 PM

do we know which ms word? not be nitpicky, but sometimes the programs read differently...sorry to be such a pain in the butt...

SFEley

03-16-2005, 08:16 PM

There is an official wordcount method.

I'd like to see it specified more clearly.

Exactly what are you pasting into Microsoft Word? Everything in the post -- including title, descriptive or introductory text, separators, "Edited by" lines at the bottom, blurbs with the word count -- or are you taking care to copy only from the beginning of the obvious story text to the end of the story? Is there only one judge verifying the word count, or are all three judges going to verify it to reduce mistakes? What will you do if the judges disagree on a word count? Will entrants who go over their word count be notified prior to disqualification, and if they are notified, will they be given a chance to appeal the counting method or to edit their entry down?

FWIW, I wince even asking these questions. I hate nitpicking over irrelevant details like word count. But if you run a contest and say "You're disqualified at 701 words," then the nits suddenly matter, and the questions become very important. So they ought to be answered. It's a shame when emotions run high over this stuff, rather than the words themselves, but it's a natural outcome of this set of rules.

Sarita

03-16-2005, 08:20 PM

I've been checking the counts, I know Three has been checking them as well. I'm only taking the actual text of the 'audition' and not including any of the intro comments like "this comes from my WIP..." or edit for.... I guess we should set up a system of disqualification and notification.

Just to be safe, post something short that displays your talent. (Some idols only sang "You are my sunshine" and they made it in!) I know it's hard to choose, it's like picking your favorite child, but....

three seven

03-16-2005, 08:37 PM

We're not asking you to write exactly 700 words - it's up to 700. Some people have written less than 400, which is perfectly acceptable and in no way a disadvantage. There are no prizes for getting closest to the limit.

The entries are checked with Word 2000. I am not aware of any discrepancy between different Word releases. In cases where entries have been supplied with a wordcount, this method has corresponded either precisely or favourably.

This is a physical wordcount, not a spatial one. If necessary, count the words yourself.

For those without access to MS Word who are using other wordcount methods and receiving a variation in results, the safest bet would be to assume the highest. It's not likely to be any lower than MS Word.

A small margin of error has been allowed for borderline entries received before the rules were clarified.

I hope this is now clear.

three seven

03-16-2005, 08:39 PM

I'd like to see it specified more clearly.

Exactly what are you pasting into Microsoft Word?

Jenna has already stated very clearly that only the body of the text will be counted. Not the title, not your name, not your signature, not your post count. Just the text.

jdkiggins

03-16-2005, 08:40 PM

:Clap: :Cheer: to Jenna for posting this contest and to the judges who have responded to all these questions. You have your hands full.

I thought the thread "Questions/general comments" is for questions and general comments. And the "Audition Comments" thread is for posting comments on the auditions.

So, my question and general comment is, why do we have so many questions and general comments in the "Audition Comments" thread? :Huh:

:roll: Guess I'm nitpicking now. I won't bother to post this in the Audition Comments because it doesn't belong there. I'm hoping everyone reads this one.

Joanne

Sarita

03-16-2005, 08:44 PM

So, my question and general comment is, why do we have so many questions and general comments in the "Audition Comments" thread? :Huh:

That's not cool, because I have been avoiding the comments, so that I can be an unbiased judge. Though, I'm sure Jenna's keeping up with it.

three seven

03-16-2005, 08:46 PM

I'm keeping up with it too.

emeraldcite

03-16-2005, 08:47 PM

question answered...didn't realize that at the same time i was writing, the answer had appeared. hate to seem like i'm not keeping up when i'm trying to. posting just happens so fast...

[running to keep up]

thanks for going to all the trouble. sorry [again] to be such a pain in the tush...

this is so much fun!

Mags

03-16-2005, 10:23 PM

What fun! Thanks for this, Jenna! I posted my sample. I hope Simon is kind. :ROFL:

firehorse

03-17-2005, 12:14 AM

Is it okay if my excerpt is from a piece that's been published? I just realized I might be disqualified :scared: .

QuietDreamer

03-17-2005, 01:29 AM

Thank you for your help MacAllister, I appreciate it.

Chris

ChunkyC

03-17-2005, 05:35 AM

I bowed out of judging or participating because I am far too busy with RL to give either the attention they deserve, but I wanted to at least pop in to say how great I think the response has been. 65 entries as of now, but I bet once I click 'submit' on this post, that will have changed.

I hope to be able to participate in the public voting once the ten finalists are chosen. Good luck to everyone who enters!

...regarding the number of entries, I was right. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

three seven

03-17-2005, 05:37 AM

I bowed out of judging or participating because I am far too busy with RL to give either the attention they deserve
You're a far wiser man than me C.

Sarita

03-17-2005, 05:39 AM

You're a far wiser man than me C.

And you got suckered into it!:flag: :(

three seven

03-17-2005, 05:41 AM

Yes, the less said about that, the better. :Smack:

ChunkyC

03-17-2005, 05:48 AM

I think all you judges are saints. But if Richard/Randy starts saying DAWG all the time....

Selina Sills

03-17-2005, 06:08 AM

This is going to be fun! I love all the ones I'm reading so far too! Thanks for the chance to compete with great writers. :)

three seven

03-17-2005, 06:10 AM

Hi Selina! :welcome: to AW and, indeed, AW Idol!

rhymegirl

03-17-2005, 07:16 AM

Has this been asked/answered yet:

Can the entry be an excerpt from something already published???

Or is that a no-no?

And are we supposed to put our real names on the entry?

QuietDreamer

03-17-2005, 09:08 AM

Tiaga

03-17-2005, 10:34 AM

I bowed out of judging or participating because I am far too busy with RL to give either the attention they deserve, http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

What is RL?:confused:

Duncan J Macdonald

03-17-2005, 10:40 AM

What is RL? Real Life.

DeadlyAccurate

03-17-2005, 10:48 AM

Yep it's been asked before.

You can use an excerpt.

On the real name question I'm not 100% sure but I would assume that it's up to you.

If you have any more questions be sure to read the Rules Thread for some answers. The address is http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9134

Hope this helps.

Chris
Good luck with the contest! :)

I believe the part rhymegirl is concerned about isn't about using an excerpt per se, but about a previously published excerpt. And I don't believe I've seen the answer to that somewhere, though I will admit it's possible I'm mistaken.

rhymegirl

03-17-2005, 04:11 PM

Yes, you're deadly accurate about that. I was asking if the excerpt could be from something PREVIOUSLY PUBLISHED!

JennaGlatzer

03-17-2005, 05:10 PM

Yes, it can.

Totally up to you if you want to use your real name, too.

emeraldcite

03-17-2005, 07:48 PM

will we hear anything from the judges? one of the things that i love about idol is the unpredictable reactions of randy, the always positive advice of paula, and the brutal honesty of simon.

i'd love to get some feedback from the judges.

[forgive me if i missed the answer to this question, if it was posted, before. i've been reading over the different threads, but sometimes it can get a bit confusing with the various simultaneous postings.]

nightwalker7

03-17-2005, 09:18 PM

I hope I am doing this right. My question is can I make more than one submission?

mommie4a

03-17-2005, 09:34 PM

You should double check me on this, but I'm pretty sure the rules say only one submission. Good luck.

Sarita

03-17-2005, 09:43 PM

Other rules:One entry per writer.

Yes, that's right!

mommie4a

03-17-2005, 09:44 PM

Yes - it's in a post by Jenna on 3/15

"Oh, and someone asked earlier, so I'll state it definitively here: one entry per writer." I'm still getting the hang of the forums, so I haven't figured out how to quote that piece from her post directly. But there you are! Good luck all.

DaveKuzminski

03-17-2005, 10:17 PM

When you post in response to another posting, use the quote button instead of either of the other two reply buttons. Then the contents of the post you read will be pre-set for you in your posting area. You can then insert your text either before or after the quoted material.

If you don't need the entire quote, be careful not to disturb the tag at the beginning of the quote or the one at the end when you remove some of the quoted contents. The brackets used to set the tag in place are very important, so don't remove those brackets.

mommie4a

03-17-2005, 11:50 PM

Thanks, Dave. If I could figure out how to post an entry, I should be able to figure out how to quote. By the way, thanks to Jenna, an article I wrote for her in 2003 made it to #3 in nonfiction articles in Preditors & Editors 2004 poll. Hope the voting went well this year.

stranger

03-18-2005, 12:13 AM

Hi,

This competition is a great idea. My thanks to the organizers and judges. I've just entered, so I can finally stop editing the piece. Phew.

The standard of entries seems very high. I was reading a post in an Uncle Jim thread and he mentioned that if you can string two grammatically-correct pages together that you are at the top 10% of the slush pile. This is far from true for these entries. It's an unenviable task for the judges I was wondering how the judges are going to compare the entries. It seems very hard to compare short stories with extracts of novels never mind with non-fiction pieces. Is the quality of the prose the most important or is it the interest generated for the reader or something else?

I know I haven't a clue how to rank the entries and I was wondering will the judges share comments on how they made their decisions (to echo a question by emeraldcite.) Though I could understand if they didn't as some people might not appreciate bad feedback from the judges.

DaveKuzminski

03-18-2005, 12:22 AM

I have to agree with Stranger's analysis of the difficulty for judging this contest.

There are other forums on the Internet where writers congregate. In some of those, it's clear that many of the participants are wannabes whose next step up can only be accomplished when they gain more mastery over their writing because they post daily without any concern for how well they write to communicate.

I read enough of the entries in the AW Idol contest to recognize that only a razor thickness of talent and ability separates most of the participants. This is going to be a tough contest for anyone to win. However, in the long run, that's the only kind worth winning since there's no status in winning against unskilled competitors.

I look forward to seeing this become an annual event.

Sarita

03-18-2005, 12:24 AM

I was wondering will the judges share comments on how they made their decisions (to echo a question by emeraldcite.) Though I could understand if they didn't as some people might not appreciate bad feedback from the judges.

That really depends upon how many entries we get. I don't think we'll be able to provide detailed feedback for 300 entries.

:faint:

jdkiggins

03-18-2005, 12:42 AM

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/emoticonfaint.gif

LOL Sara. All the judges should get as much rest as possible while the getting is good. Fifty posts already with twelve days remaining to post auditions. My eyes ache for you.

Joanne

Sarita

03-18-2005, 12:44 AM

Fifty posts already with twelve days remaining to post auditions. My eyes ache for you.

I think it's around 90 now!

Prevostprincess

03-18-2005, 12:46 AM

Not to sound too terribly anal, but do the title/subtitle of an entry count toward the word count? (Okay, I admit the question does sound terribly anal, but... )

jdkiggins

03-18-2005, 12:53 AM

Yes, 93! I think I was stuck on page two. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/emoticonsleepy.gif Too many windows open. LOL

Joanne

Sarita

03-18-2005, 12:58 AM

Jenna has already stated very clearly that only the body of the text will be counted. Not the title, not your name, not your signature, not your post count. Just the text.

;)

JennaGlatzer

03-18-2005, 01:00 AM

Prevost, no. The title/subtitle/byline/etc. doesn't count toward the word count. Just the piece itself.

mistri

03-18-2005, 01:58 AM

It may be worth selecting two stand-by members aside from the ten winners (a bit like they do in some reality shows), just in case someone has to pull out because of real life stuff. Of course if you don't mind if the contest gets shortened, there's nothing to worry about.

bcg61

03-18-2005, 03:16 AM

I think this is a great idea! I posted my entry earlier today.

edfrzr

03-19-2005, 03:55 AM

I'm just a tad bit curious as to the criteria with which we are to be judged. Are the judges going to look for the next great American novel; one which change the way society views itself, or are we looking for a story that leaves you wanting more, or maybe just enjoyable reading that flows? (I know I know --all of the above).

Just curious.

JennaGlatzer

03-19-2005, 04:06 AM

Ed, if I may answer on behalf of the judges...

They're looking for writing that succeeds at whatever it sets out to do.

In other words, a serious, dramatic story doesn't get more credit than a light-hearted comedy. A poem doesn't get weighted differently than a novel excerpt. Each entry is judged according to its own style-- in other words, if it's a humor essay, is it funny? If it's a tragedy, does it break your heart?

Because they're reading as they go along, another thing sure to win favor is "Does it stick with you?"-- that is, after they've read 300 entries, which ones are they still thinking about?

Primarily, they're looking for writing that works.

edfrzr

03-19-2005, 05:48 AM

May we go back into our submission and add a "brief" comment about the piece (2 sentences)?

Thanks--you're still HOT!

p.s. I'm not a stalker-----yet

SRHowen

03-19-2005, 06:52 AM

<scratching head> well, I may be at a disadvantage since I posted first, before the offical rules were even posted, but what I don't get is, how can people still post in the wrong place?

Sigh

and looking back, I should have posted something else--oh well.

Shawn

SFEley

03-19-2005, 06:52 AM

SRHowen

03-19-2005, 06:55 AM

If I was a judge, I'd be looking for the ten entries I liked the most.

Ahh, but liked doesn't equate to good writing, that would be personal preference.

Shawn

SFEley

03-19-2005, 07:13 AM

Ahh, but liked doesn't equate to good writing, that would be personal preference.

Do you have a definition for good writing that doesn't distill down to personal preference?

maestrowork

03-19-2005, 07:59 AM

Do you have a definition for good writing that doesn't distill down to personal preference?

A) Outstanding command of the language: grammar, structures, word choices, etc.

B) Storytelling skills: show vs. tell, POV, etc. It goes for non-fiction as well. The best non-fiction also engages the readers with good story telling skills.

C) As Jenna mentioned: Does it achieve its purpose? If it's fantasy, does it take us to an out-of-this-world place and enthrall us? If it's a chick lit, does it make us connect with the heroine about her issues? If it's humor, does it make us laugh? If it's horror, does it make us squirm and scream? If it's history, does it teach us something interesting and relevant? If it's a poem, does it evoke the right emotions and imageries? If it's a personal essay, does it make use relate to the topic and evoke the right emotions? So on and so forth.

Of course there is some personal criteria going on here. That's why it's a "judged contest" and not something we can go by a scientific measurement (height, width, time, word count?). And that's why we have three judges and they talk among themselves.

But "personal preference" or "what I like best" is so arbitary. I mean if you love horror but hate sci-fi, how can you judge that as objectively as you can if you only go by "what you like"?

SFEley

03-19-2005, 08:24 AM

A) Outstanding command of the language: [...]
B) Storytelling skills: [...]
C) As Jenna mentioned: [...]

And if it has all of those attributes, and executes them well, odds are good that I'll like the story. If it has none of them, it's virtually certain that I won't.

This is art. There is no "objective" judging. There's no reason to be dispassionate: passion is the point. Defining multi-stage rubrics only adds needless layers of complexity on top of a simple, effective, and ultimately inescapable tool: intuition.

("And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good -- need we ask anyone to tell us these things?"
-- Robert Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance)

maestrowork

03-19-2005, 08:35 AM

Then your judging ("what I like best") has more to do with analysis (good grammar, good structure, word choices, storytelling skills, etc.) than an arbitary value judgment. And analysis is not purely based on personal preferences. It has to do with some tried-and-true measurements. There are certain things that are subjective -- the artistic value of a piece, for example. But there are things that can be judged by objective analysis. Grammar, for example, is not arbitary. Style is. POV is not arbitary. Word choice is subjective, but not arbitary. Evocation of emotions -- probably arbitary enough.

What I am saying is that a statement like "I'll pick the 10 I like the best" is arbitary and vague, without any specific criteria on which to base your judgment. Imagine an Olympic event without any judging criteria. I doubt you would hear a gymnastic judge say "I don't know... I just pick the one I like the most."

Counsel

03-19-2005, 08:38 AM

As long as the Simon-equiv on this panel doesn't tell me "You ought to be writing newsletters on a cruise ship," I think I can bear the scrutiny.

astonwest

03-19-2005, 08:45 AM

I can't believe so many people are getting worried about the specifics, myself...
but then, that could just be me.

Selina Sills

03-19-2005, 12:12 PM

I appreciate such a warm little welcome. :hi:

And yes, I agree. Jenna, and all the judges... you're doing a great job!! :)

Selina Sills

03-19-2005, 12:14 PM

Can anyone tell me how to change the description under my name on my posts?

Thanks!

Selina Sills

03-19-2005, 12:17 PM

Hey.. I loved your piece! :)

Alphabeter

03-19-2005, 01:46 PM

Selina

I believe you can only change it after you've posted 50 times.

astonwest

03-19-2005, 06:18 PM

Selina

I believe you can only change it after you've posted 50 times.

I'll vouch for that...just went in and changed mine...
now to go find an avatar...

JennaGlatzer

03-19-2005, 07:25 PM

SFE, I think what Maestro is saying is this:

I do not particularly like sci-fi or horror. I do like humor and personal essays. So if I were just going by what I "like," two categories there have an advantage, and two don't. That's why the judges can't read just with their own personal preferences in mind, and rather have to read as if they were fans of each genre. Of course you still have to "like" the entries you pick, but like them on their own merits, not just on your gut preferences.

To liken it to American Idol, you may not like country music, but you can still recognize that Carrie Underwood is a really good country singer.

rhymegirl

03-19-2005, 07:51 PM

Jenna,

:banana:

Am I allowed to enter the contest? I have some great material. Some of it is a little mushy I'm afraid.

Benjamin Banana

maestrowork

03-19-2005, 08:29 PM

To liken it to American Idol, you may not like country music, but you can still recognize that Carrie Underwood is a really good country singer.

Oh yeah, and Shania Twain is a hot babe.

Serious though, I think the audition is supposed to find the best writers, not the best "stories" or "essays" or "poems" or whatever. That's the whole point of the Idol contest -- a good writer should be able to write anything, thus the "challenges" once the finalists are picked.

edfrzr

03-20-2005, 09:52 AM

JennaGlatzer

03-20-2005, 05:25 PM

I am... could you tell?

I can't say that too loudly in NY, though, or I'll get beat up.

firehorse

03-21-2005, 03:15 AM

I just re-watched Stand by Me, which sticks pretty closely to the short story on which it's based, "The Body." It made me realize that Stephen King is a much, much better writer than I give him credit for. Just because someone sells millions of copies doesn't mean they're <cough, cough> John Grisham (one of my occasional guilty pleasures, but not a great writer by anyone's definition).

The DVD has a 'making of' bit (I have to watch all of it to write my review) that includes clips of an interview with King. He's great with characterization and detail, but it usually gets lost in the more genre-specific aspects of his work. Look at Shawshank Redemption. What amazing characters!

Anyway, I logged on as a reward for doing most (but not all) of my work, and I thought I'd add this in.... for whatever it's worth.

-Sarah

Diana Hignutt

03-21-2005, 04:19 AM

I love this contest. Great idea! I am very impressed with the entries. Quite intimidating, really.

May the best writer win!

diana

BlueTexas

03-21-2005, 04:51 AM

As long as the Simon-equiv on this panel doesn't tell me "You ought to be writing newsletters on a cruise ship," I think I can bear the scrutiny.

Even if he did, at least you'd be on a cruise ship :)

mommie4a

03-21-2005, 04:58 AM

The DVD has a 'making of' bit (I have to watch all of it to write my review) that includes clips of an interview with King. He's great with characterization and detail, but it usually gets lost in the more genre-specific aspects of his work. Look at Shawshank Redemption. What amazing characters!

Hi Sarah - Don't know if you've browsed it before, but King's "On Writing" is wonderful. I don't read his fiction (except for The Stand which took place in Ogunquit, Maine, where I spent a lot of summers) but "On Writing" is up there with Anne Lamott and Betsy Lerner's stuff. I'll go out on a limb and guess that you've read On Writing before, but if not, you might check it out when you're in the mood for that kind of book.

firehorse

03-21-2005, 08:04 AM

Even if he did, at least you'd be on a cruise ship :) I just finished a book that I began writing on a cruise ship (a ship the size of a high-school track with 500 senior citizens - a specialty ship - and sharing a cabin with my 95-year-old dad). It was an amazing journey, much as I often wanted to throw him overboard (and vice versa, I'm sure). Anyway, I've often thought about going back to that cruise line - Saga, for the Brits out there - and teaching seniors how to write memoir.

I have no idea why I just wrote all of that, except that I'm procrastinating from writing my Being Julia review. Great movie, btw.

Don't know if you've browsed it before, but King's "On Writing" is wonderful. I don't read his fiction (except for The Stand which took place in Ogunquit, Maine, where I spent a lot of summers) but "On Writing" is up there with Anne Lamott and Betsy Lerner's stuff. I'll go out on a limb and guess that you've read On Writing before, but if not, you might check it out when you're in the mood for that kind of book. Yes, I have read it, and today made me think I should re-read it. The one I carry around with me like a security blanket is Betsy Lerner's book. I wish she were still editing; she's done my two favorite memoirs (Autobiography of a Face and Nobody Nowhere), and it would be a dream to work with her.
I also used to spend summers in Maine. We still have a house there, on a small island near Boothbay, but I rarely get up there. It's heaven as a writing place, though!

-Sarah, Princess of Procrastination (hmm... no smiley with a tiara?)

zeprosnepsid

03-21-2005, 08:30 AM

I may be in the minority here, but sometimes I find that the "best" writing doesn't always hold my interest. I mean you have great writers that sell very little (comparitively). Then you have people like Patterson, Baldacci, Crichton, Brown who fit a "commercial " mode and will sell the hell out of some novels.

To be a big bestseller a lot of the time you have to pander to the middle. (Not to idiots or anything, but the middle). I often feel like the Da Vinci code is a less intelligent man's Foucault's Pendulum. (No offense to those who like the Da Vinci Code, I didn't read the whole thing.)

I have wondered on occasion where the Hemingways and the Joyces are. I'm sure they are out there, but I do not have the time to dig through every last novel in the bookstore.

I do sometimes wish the world/America was not so democratic and middle class based. Now, anyone can have a blog, anyone can have a voice and be heard. Back in the day only educated aristocrats told us what was good. And we may have been better off. At least in terms of quality.

That being said, it is obviously possible to write something for middle class everyday americans and also have it be good. The problem is just when writers and companies pander to them. Still, I don't know if Hemingway would have gotten recognition in today's market.

Susie

03-21-2005, 08:54 AM

Great idea, Jenna. Thanks much.

I just wanted to make sure that in nonfiction, articles were okay to post and you didn't mean only essays. Just reread the rules, and articles are ok.:) I only edited mine for a few word changes & word count immediately after posting. Jenna I noticed a small typo and changed it this morning. Hope that's ok.

Warm regards, Susie:)

TurtleQT

03-22-2005, 10:30 PM

You probably have to deal with a lot of stupid questions so heres another one...

How do we vote for the story we like?

Thx.

Sarita

03-22-2005, 10:31 PM

How do we vote for the story we like?

Hi TurtleQT! The voting wont start until the finalists are announced. The finalists will be announced sometime after auditions close.

jdkiggins

03-22-2005, 10:35 PM

The voting wont start until the finalists are announced. The finalists will be announced sometime after auditions close.

And check it out! 147 entries and still six more days left to enter.

Joanne

Sarita

03-22-2005, 10:37 PM

147 entries and still six more days left to enter.

Tell me about it! :faint:

maestrowork

03-22-2005, 10:49 PM

Tell me about it! :faint:

All you need is ten.

(So, what kind of bribe you want?)
(shhh, don't tell anyone. If you put it in parenthesis, they can't see)

Betty W01

03-22-2005, 10:53 PM

(Ray, don't offer bug soup. Just a tip...)

Betty W01

03-22-2005, 10:54 PM

(Cookies make a good bribe. My post mentions cookies *and* candy. It's a whole subliminal thing...)

Sarita

03-22-2005, 10:58 PM

Mmmmm, cookies.... Haven't I mentioned before that I would NOT take bribes, rep points or anything else you might have to offer?

sgtsdaughter

03-22-2005, 11:10 PM

what about my momma's sweet potato pie . . . it's the best in three counties. (oh she would kill me right now if she knew.):Ssh:

jdkiggins

03-22-2005, 11:20 PM

(Ray, don't offer bug soup. Just a tip...)

:roll:

jdkiggins

03-22-2005, 11:26 PM

All you need is ten.

(So, what kind of bribe you want?)
(shhh, don't tell anyone. If you put it in parenthesis, they can't see)

:ROFL: Ray. ( :Ssh: Don't tell anyone, but I don't think parenthesis work. Unless of course, my new glasses are working better than they should be. Can you see me now, Ray?)

Joanne

jdkiggins

03-22-2005, 11:30 PM

Mmmmm, cookies.... Haven't I mentioned before that I would NOT take bribes, rep points or anything else you might have to offer?

Does that mean everyone who slipped those rep points to you after the contest started, should take them all back now? :roll:

Truly, I don't envy the judges their job. The reading of all those auditions is a chore not to mention picking only ten finalists.

Sara, (this is not a bribe) I bought new glasses, so the offer is still open for my old pair. LOL How about some No-Doze?

Joanne

maestrowork

03-22-2005, 11:51 PM

Mmmmm, cookies.... Haven't I mentioned before that I would NOT take bribes, rep points or anything else you might have to offer?

I would never bribe any judges. Of course not. Who would even mention that?

(I give great massages. Consider that.)

maestrowork

03-22-2005, 11:53 PM

(Ray, don't offer bug soup. Just a tip...)

(Betty, tip? Roach tips work just fine. You don't really need the whole body)

Betty W01

03-23-2005, 12:11 AM

(Ray. Eww.)

Sarita

03-23-2005, 12:45 AM

How about some No-Doze?

Nah, I miss out on enough sleep by being my hyper-minded self. That and running back to check the boards every 10 minutes ;)

Hey! No taking points back!!!

jdkiggins

03-23-2005, 12:45 AM

(I give great massages. Consider that.)

Awh, man. Now you tell me. Had I known that, I would have asked to be a judge instead. :banana:

Joanne

Sarita

03-23-2005, 01:19 AM

(I give great massages. Consider that.)

(Wow, they really can't see this? I like massages!)

jdkiggins

03-23-2005, 01:29 AM

(Wow, they really can't see this? I like massages!)

No fair, Ray. You snuck in a bribe.:roll:

Joanne

maestrowork

03-23-2005, 05:24 AM

No fair, Ray. You snuck in a bribe.:roll:

Joanne

Oh the other hand, Joanne... you don't live that far from me.... ;)

jdkiggins

03-23-2005, 06:03 AM

Oh the other hand, Joanne... you don't live that far from me.... ;)

:Ssh: Ray. Now everyone will really wonder how I knew you wore green on St. Patrick's Day. :ROFL: Terrible, terrible rumors. LOL

Joanne

maestrowork

03-23-2005, 07:24 AM

:Ssh: Ray. Now everyone will really wonder how I knew you wore green on St. Patrick's Day. :ROFL: Terrible, terrible rumors. LOL

Joanne

Or what's under my green underwear. Tell us, how did you know, Joanne?

jdkiggins

03-23-2005, 09:09 AM

Honest, I only saw the two green blobs under your 1274 posts. :)
So that's what those blobs are. Green underwear.

plumberman029

03-23-2005, 05:11 PM

Mmmmm, cookies.... Haven't I mentioned before that I would NOT take bribes, rep points or anything else you might have to offer?(emphasis mine)

Hmm...this word 'would' seems to me to indicate that in the past there was a time when she would not take bribes, but that now she might, perhaps, be induced to accept them. Am I 'off the mark,' so to speak? (Lol.)

JanaLanier

03-24-2005, 12:23 AM

Dunno if this is the right place to put it (will 3/7 yell at me?), but good luck to the judges... you've certainly got your work cut out for you! I can't wait until the finalists are picked and then we can all vote for our favorites! (will you do it in a poll-style format, to make sure everyone can only vote once?)

SRHowen

03-24-2005, 03:25 AM

jdkiggins

03-24-2005, 03:43 AM

Yep, good thing Jenna locked the judges room.

ShadowGuide

03-24-2005, 07:42 AM

And people are still posting in the wrong place--how can you miss the right thread??? The judges are better people than me--I'd have bounced anyone who couldn't find the right place to post.

Shawn, I too pity the judges, but in defense of people posting to the wrong spot, some of us are brand-spankin' new to this type of forum. It is great that the judges gave some people a break to allow them to post properly. However, my Virgoness admits that I may not have been so kind if I were running the contest.
-Mel. (www.shadowguide.com) :D

wills

03-25-2005, 04:38 AM

Hi, I'm Wills,

Do you Gals and Guys mind if a novice to this forum enters 'Idol'?

I've been active on other writers boards and looking to spread my wings happened upon AW.

Protocol and all that stuff - don't want to tread on toes by entering as an 'outsider'.

DaveKuzminski

03-25-2005, 06:02 AM

Welcome. Join in. Compete.

Hi, I'm Wills,

Do you Gals and Guys mind if a novice to this forum enters 'Idol'?

I've been active on other writers boards and looking to spread my wings happened upon AW.

Protocol and all that stuff - don't want to tread on toes by entering as an 'outsider'.

JennaGlatzer

03-25-2005, 07:17 AM

Please jump right in, Wills, and welcome!

A lot of newbies have entered. It's open to all.

Liam Jackson

03-25-2005, 06:10 PM

Jenna,

Please delete my entry entitled "The Fountian". I used the wrong excerpt and went over the count by 13 words. OOPS

LJ

JennaGlatzer

03-25-2005, 10:51 PM

Done.

wills

03-25-2005, 11:09 PM

Please jump right in, Wills, and welcome!

A lot of newbies have entered. It's open to all.

Many thank's - posted an extract from a draft novel.

I'm going to try to read as many of the entries as possible and post some comments over the next few days. good luck to all.

wills.

Penelope

03-25-2005, 11:09 PM

FWIW, Liam, I thought your contest entry was very good. :)

awatkins

03-25-2005, 11:18 PM

FWIW, Liam, I thought your contest entry was very good. :)

Ditto. I'm glad I got to read it before it vanished. I particularly liked the last line. :)

Liam Jackson

03-25-2005, 11:18 PM

Thanks, Poppy, Anne. I appreciate that very much. It was a silly mistake on my part. I took a random selection, edited a paragraph to hit the word count...then posted the original paragraph like an idiot. Oh, well...:)

NikeeGoddess

03-26-2005, 02:13 AM

new question - i have no idea, sorry if it's a repeat, but i can't go thru 7 pages of questions. and i just discovered this forum yesterday so:

is this contest run with elimination rounds? ie - quarter finalists must submit a new entry then... semi finalist submit a new entry... ????
and if not then i suggest it should be (althou no one expects you to change the rules at this stage) b/c it would eliminate the "one hit wonder" AND the winner would prove that they have a volume of worthy pieces of art out there.

also, for a later contest: it would be cool to have you select parameters* (something other than word count) and then people must write something that fits....give them a week or something.

*ie: a genre, an obscure sentence that must be spoken, an object that must be mentioned or used, etc... get my drift? have fun!!!

JennaGlatzer

03-26-2005, 02:56 AM

Nikee, the very first post here explains how the contest will be run: http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9083

NikeeGoddess

03-26-2005, 04:43 AM

LOL!!! I knew that the whole time! ;)

well no...actually i was just as bad as some of those others who didn't bother to read ALL of the rules. give me ten lashes with a wet noodle.

:whip:

Moondancer

03-26-2005, 05:38 AM

Can I post anonymously?

NikeeGoddess

03-26-2005, 08:05 PM

Other rules:

One entry per writer.

...

You don't have to use your real name.
with an enormous amount of first posts, methinks it leaves the door open for an abuse to this particular rule; and some people have entered more than once.

Mark Anderson

03-27-2005, 01:04 AM

Did y'all expect to get so many entries? That's a ton of competition! :guns:

firehorse

03-27-2005, 04:14 AM

wills

03-27-2005, 04:28 AM

This is for those high-ranking Admin types: are the page views counted by unique visitor or by each of us re-visiting the thread (and/or hitting reload)? 8000+ (on the Audition thread) seems pretty high for uniques, but it would be sooooo cool if that were the case. Hmm. I'm thinking the site reads each click on each thread, regardless of where it originated, as a separate view.

Just a curious geekette,
Sarah

It is the number of hits, repeat customers are not distinquished.

This is quite a 'shy' board - a lot of lurkers who rarely post replies judging by the post/view ratios.

I'm new here. The forum I usually frequent runs an average of 1 post per 10 views, stories, even shorts like these, receive significantly higher views.

Moondancer

03-27-2005, 04:59 AM

This is for those high-ranking Admin types: are the page views counted by unique visitor or by each of us re-visiting the thread (and/or hitting reload)? 8000+ (on the Audition thread) seems pretty high for uniques, but it would be sooooo cool if that were the case. Hmm. I'm thinking the site reads each click on each thread, regardless of where it originated, as a separate view.

Just a curious geekette,
Sarah

The views you see by threads are the views for that thread and is an accumulation from the beginning of the thread... so... no, it's not counting only uniques.

Each click on anything on this site is a pageview (or hit). Those are collected on a daily, weekly, monthly basis which you can see in the sites webstats but that's typically only those who have admin access to them. Those same stats however, will also collect unique visits and return visitors, :Thumbs:

Which is probably more information than you were looking for. /laughs at herself.