Tall, dark, handsome virgin, seeks date...

[Nateskate]

Made you look!

Well, this certainly doesn't describe me. I'm still tall enough to scrape my head in a standard size door, but I'm an extreme makeover and a bottle of hair color away from the rest.

Tall- obviously, I was referring to my tall tale which is nearing completion.
Dark- Any fantasy worth it's salt has to have a bit of darkness, and mine lacks none.
Handsome- sure, beauty's in the eye of the beholder, but if you don't think your baby's good looking, there's not much chance anyone else will.

Ah-virgin- obviously, I'm in trouble if this is me after 25 years of marriage. Well, it is me - but only as an author. Un-agented for the moment.

Actually, although I will be seeking a hot date for the Best Sellers Ball, I know I'm not quite ready to choose a date yet. Book one of my beautiful epic fantasy needs some last minute touch-ups.

So, what is this post about? For the experienced, tell us how you found your first publishing promdate:

For those who want to discuss how they plan to seduce that attractive agent, what are your plans? Obviously, without a great story, you'll be a wallflower anyway. But given that you are just an undiscovered bell of the ball, what spin will you put on your story?

Me? Well, since this is my first go at it, and I'm kind of wanting to make a great impression, I think I'm going to seek a professional opinion. My re-write alone has been an extreme makeover. And although I'm kind of tempted to send it as is, and this may seem like overkill, but hey, I'm thinking ahead to movie deals, and video game tie-ins, so this honey has to be a stunner.

[azbikergirl]

Heh! I can't get past daydreaming about the cover art (what my bad boy will wear to the ball). Does the author have any input at all? What if he/she totally hates the cover art the publisher proposes?

[James D. Macdonald]

Bitching about the cover art is a time-honored authorial tradition.

(Go get a copy of The Unstrung Harp, or, Mr. Earbrass Writes a Novel (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0151004358/ref=nosim/madhousemanor/) to learn most of the seamiest truths about the writing life.)

[Jamesaritchie]

Made you look!

Well, this certainly doesn't describe me. I'm still tall enough to scrape my head in a standard size door, but I'm an extreme makeover and a bottle of hair color away from the rest.

Tall- obviously, I was referring to my tall tale which is nearing completion.
Dark- Any fantasy worth it's salt has to have a bit of darkness, and mine lacks none.
Handsome- sure, beauty's in the eye of the beholder, but if you don't think your baby's good looking, there's not much chance anyone else will.

Ah-virgin- obviously, I'm in trouble if this is me after 25 years of marriage. Well, it is me - but only as an author. Un-agented for the moment.

Actually, although I will be seeking a hot date for the Best Sellers Ball, I know I'm not quite ready to choose a date yet. Book one of my beautiful epic fantasy needs some last minute touch-ups.

So, what is this post about? For the experienced, tell us how you found your first publishing promdate:

For those who want to discuss how they plan to seduce that attractive agent, what are your plans? Obviously, without a great story, you'll be a wallflower anyway. But given that you are just an undiscovered bell of the ball, what spin will you put on your story?

Me? Well, since this is my first go at it, and I'm kind of wanting to make a great impression, I think I'm going to seek a professional opinion. My re-write alone has been an extreme makeover. And although I'm kind of tempted to send it as is, and this may seem like overkill, but hey, I'm thinking ahead to movie deals, and video game tie-ins, so this honey has to be a stunner.

I was young and virginal muself when I started looking for an agent who would take me to the ball.

I did a ton of research, and then, when it came down to actually asking an agent, I ran my finger down a list and picked an agent I'd never heard of because I liked her name. I sent her a few pages of a novel I hadn't yet written, and she called about ten minutes later and said she wanted it. I wrote it and sent it to her, and she sold it to a publisher within a few weeks.

It was weird, and it isn't supposed to happen that way. But I got to go to the ball, and that's what it's all about, however it happens.

[MarkEsq]

I am currently courting one potential date and hoping she agrees to come to the ball. My wooing technique was along the lines of grab-and-run: I gathered a list of about fifty agents in New York, LA, and one in DC. Being none-too-optimistic, I thought I'd just do the easy ones first - that is, I first contacted those who accecpted queries by email, rather than ranking who I would like more and contacting them first. I sent out fifteen queries and to my great surprise two wrote back wanting to see partials. I sent 100 pages to the first one (who wanted them exclusively) and I heard back last week, they want to see the whole manuscript. I am delighted, hopeful, anxious... and also wondering why I was not a little more discriminating at the initial send-out-the-query stage!!

My view then, and pretty much now, is that beggars cannot be choosers and the unpublished author is pretty much a beggar. But the lesson for me is that I should have been more focused, had a tier system for my potential dates. Still, I grew up in England and went to all-boy boarding schools so I know very well that a date is a date!

[zornhau]

It was weird, and it isn't supposed to happen that way. But I got to go to the ball, and that's what it's all about, however it happens

One lemming drinking Bud on a tropical beach does not imply that lemmings have a viable vacation strategy...:tongue

[maestrowork]

I'm currently getting ready for the ball with my date, and really nervous. What if nobody comes?

[Vipersniper]

:scared: If that were posted at Longwood University some of those girls would keep you for weeks and it would not be pretty once they released you unless of course they set you free totally nude. Need directions? Haha.

[Jamesaritchie]

One lemming drinking Bud on a tropical beach does not imply that lemmings have a viable vacation strategy...:tongue

Nope, but it means that one particular lemming got where he wanted to go.

Actually, I don't think strategy plays much of a part in getting to the ball. You get invited to the ball by, essentially, buying your way in. You learn to write a query letter that convinces an agent or editor that you just might be sitting on a gold mine. If you succeed in this, the agent or editor asks for a load of sample ore, which is your novel.

Agent or editor then assays the ore. If all they find is rock and iron pyrite, then no matter what your strategy was, they say, "Sorry, kid, I've decided to go to the ball with someone else."

If, on the other hand, the find what they believe to be a vein of gold running through the ore, they say, "Take my arm, kid. We're going dancing."

Easy to say, hard to do, but the only strategy I've ever seen that worked is just this. Learn to write a query letter that will convince an editor or agent to look at your novel, and then write a novel that an agent or editor thinks might be a gold mine. If you can do this, you're going to the ball. If you can't, you'll just have to stay home and watch it on TV.

[Nateskate]

I was young and virginal muself when I started looking for an agent who would take me to the ball.

I did a ton of research, and then, when it came down to actually asking an agent, I ran my finger down a list and picked an agent I'd never heard of because I liked her name. I sent her a few pages of a novel I hadn't yet written, and she called about ten minutes later and said she wanted it. I wrote it and sent it to her, and she sold it to a publisher within a few weeks.

It was weird, and it isn't supposed to happen that way. But I got to go to the ball, and that's what it's all about, however it happens.

Yes, I'm researching like crazy about agents at the moment. But first things first. On one level, I'm wondering if I'm over doing it by considering to have someone with more experience look at it, but on the other hand, I'd hate to have been "this close to nailing a deal". First impressions can be lasting.

[Nateskate]

Heh! I can't get past daydreaming about the cover art (what my bad boy will wear to the ball). Does the author have any input at all? What if he/she totally hates the cover art the publisher proposes?

Fantasy writers would especially have a concern. I've even approached a pro artist about my concepts, and maps to have something to send to the editor. It may seem trite to some, but honestly, the wrong cover can not only be a turn off, but it can be defining.

You may have a mental picture of your Wartogs, and they paint something completely different, either too warm and fuzzy, or not warm and fuzzy enough. Then again, they do have rather experienced cover artists who know what generally gets attention.

[Nateskate]

I am currently courting one potential date and hoping she agrees to come to the ball. My wooing technique was along the lines of grab-and-run: I gathered a list of about fifty agents in New York, LA, and one in DC. Being none-too-optimistic, I thought I'd just do the easy ones first - that is, I first contacted those who accecpted queries by email, rather than ranking who I would like more and contacting them first. I sent out fifteen queries and to my great surprise two wrote back wanting to see partials. I sent 100 pages to the first one (who wanted them exclusively) and I heard back last week, they want to see the whole manuscript. I am delighted, hopeful, anxious... and also wondering why I was not a little more discriminating at the initial send-out-the-query stage!!

My view then, and pretty much now, is that beggars cannot be choosers and the unpublished author is pretty much a beggar. But the lesson for me is that I should have been more focused, had a tier system for my potential dates. Still, I grew up in England and went to all-boy boarding schools so I know very well that a date is a date!

This may sound wrong, but I don't feel like a begger. I don't mean that to sound arrogant, but my hope is that this is an important work of art that will have a tremendous impact. It's not conventionaly, but sometimes I feel like I have one shot to hit a home run, and that's it. Maybe that's not true, but I'm not thinking about the next project and the next.

[Nateskate]

:scared: If that were posted at Longwood University some of those girls would keep you for weeks and it would not be pretty once they released you unless of course they set you free totally nude. Need directions? Haha.

Something like this almost happened my freshman year of college. I was in a room full of girls, and they said they were going to gang up on me and rip my clothes off. It's a complex story. A few of them were really cute, but the others just had this desperate (I've never seen or touched a man before) kind of drool. A few weeks before this, I had one of those "God if you get me out of this one...I'll...never...or at least try to never..." moments, and as strange as it sounds, that thought came to my head. After going through the devil on the left shoulder and angel on the right for about a minute, I knew it was now or never, and got out of the room quick.

I'm not even going to say how I got out of that room with my clothes on, but as you can imagine, another part of me wanted to stay and see what would have happen, since that was like one of my teen fantasy dreams unfolding. "They'll never believe me if I told them..."

[SRHowen]

I agree with James R for the most part. But, I think you can and should have a strategy. Obviously you need to start with a query letter that will make them want to see more. Work at it until you cannot do any better. Then have a few beta readers look at it--preferably those who already have a date to the ball or who have an agent. Listen to them. Go back to the keyboard and work some more on the query.

Next, write that synop. They are hell to write at any time. But once you are holding that letter that says, Hey, I found your query enticing and would like to see a synop and 70 pages--then they become a nightmare after being sent to hell. Besides if you have it already done you can include a line in your query--I have a detailed synopsis and sample pages, or the complete manuscript ready to send at your request if interested. Shows them you know what they might want and have it ready.

Again have those who are already there take a look, rewrite as needed.

So you have the great book, you have the killer query, you have the detailed synop, you have the short and sweet synop-you are ready, set--but don’t go yet.

Research.

Research.

Look carefully into each agent you are interested in. Do they have a sales record--a recent sales record? Do you recognize the names and publishers of those that they list as clients? E-mail some of their clients--just to be sure they are clients. Do they represent authors who write in your genre or write things similar to what you write? And so on--member AAR?

Then get ten query letters ready to send out. Double check agent‘s name, spelling etc. Double check your contact info. Send.

Get the next ten ready to go. Set aside, start on next book.

When you get the first SASE back. Calmly walk into your house. Set on table and take top query from stack and go mail it. Prepare next one, add to bottom of stack.

Now open SASE. Rejection? OK. No big deal you have already sent the next letter. Asking for more material? Send it off.

Keep going until you get your "date."

Shawn

[BradyH1861]

Tall dark handsome virgin

Hmmmm that sort of reminds me when I got married!

Well, the tall part anyway.

I was neither dark, nor handsome, nor a virgin.

I'm still not. :Thumbs:

Brady H.

[Nateskate]

I agree with James R for the most part. But, I think you can and should have a strategy. Obviously you need to start with a query letter that will make them want to see more. Work at it until you cannot do any better. Then have a few beta readers look at it--preferably those who already have a date to the ball or who have an agent. Listen to them. Go back to the keyboard and work some more on the query.

Next, write that synop. They are hell to write at any time. But once you are holding that letter that says, Hey, I found your query enticing and would like to see a synop and 70 pages--then they become a nightmare after being sent to hell. Besides if you have it already done you can include a line in your query--I have a detailed synopsis and sample pages, or the complete manuscript ready to send at your request if interested. Shows them you know what they might want and have it ready.

Again have those who are already there take a look, rewrite as needed.

So you have the great book, you have the killer query, you have the detailed synop, you have the short and sweet synop-you are ready, set--but don’t go yet.

Research.

Research.

Look carefully into each agent you are interested in. Do they have a sales record--a recent sales record? Do you recognize the names and publishers of those that they list as clients? E-mail some of their clients--just to be sure they are clients. Do they represent authors who write in your genre or write things similar to what you write? And so on--member AAR?

Then get ten query letters ready to send out. Double check agent‘s name, spelling etc. Double check your contact info. Send.

Get the next ten ready to go. Set aside, start on next book.

When you get the first SASE back. Calmly walk into your house. Set on table and take top query from stack and go mail it. Prepare next one, add to bottom of stack.

Now open SASE. Rejection? OK. No big deal you have already sent the next letter. Asking for more material? Send it off.

Keep going until you get your "date."

Shawn

Great advice. I've learned so much from you and others here.

My question at this point is do you go with the big New York boys, who have connections in Hollywood, and Europe, with the 400 clients and 100 books or, is there an advantage to opt for someone who has a smaller practice. My gut is telling me that you go with the long track record. But I don't know for sure.

[cwfgal]

My question at this point is do you go with the big New York boys, who have connections in Hollywood, and Europe, with the 400 clients and 100 books or, is there an advantage to opt for someone who has a smaller practice. My gut is telling me that you go with the long track record. But I don't know for sure.

You can try to go as high as you want but it isn't necessary to have a high-falutin New York agent, just an agent who has all the necessary connections. My first agent was a one-woman show and she operated from her home in Maryland. She was able to sell my book to a big New York City publisher, and had other agents she worked with for both movie and foreign rights. She got movie options on two of my books and sold foreign rights on all of them. In this day and age, with email, Fed Ex, faxes, and such, a New York location isn't necessary. My second agent had a New York address and he was pretty much useless.

Beth

[SRHowen]

Beth, what area of WI? Most my family lives in the Fox valley area.

Anyway--you want an agent that has a recent track record that reps the same sort of stuff you do--big agency or small--if they are making sales in your genre, does it matter?

As long as they had a good sales to client ratio and they had made sales I'd heard of and I knew they weren't scams I sent a query.

On the NYC address--well, many sales are made over "lunch" so while it may not matter, my preference was for NYC agents.

Shawn

[James D. Macdonald]

On the NYC address--well, many sales are made over "lunch" so while it may not matter, my preference was for NYC agents.


Sixty miles up the Long Island Expressway still counts as "NYC" for our purposes.

[MarkEsq]

I hope it's ok to ask here, I tried in what I think is the right thread but got no responses - the agent looking at my manuscript is in DC, Literary and Creative Artists. They have a website and seem to be very legit but, other than that and P&E, I can't find out anything about them. Anyone familiar with them?

[James D. Macdonald]

Literary and Creative Artists of Washington DC has a track record of sales.

[Vipersniper]

:Guitar: I am glad that you escaped and the University does have library that has recognition in the state. The head librarian asked me to come there and speak to a group of highschool students about how I wrote my first book. That was interesting and I hope that I helped to encourage the youngsters and I think that I got just as much out of it as they did. But let me tell you there are some good up and coming authors that most of old foggies had better watch. There is also a law school nearby but this is a teaching University. Longwood University is close to Hampden- Sydney College and east of the University of Virginia.

[Nateskate]

You can try to go as high as you want but it isn't necessary to have a high-falutin New York agent, just an agent who has all the necessary connections. My first agent was a one-woman show and she operated from her home in Maryland. She was able to sell my book to a big New York City publisher, and had other agents she worked with for both movie and foreign rights. She got movie options on two of my books and sold foreign rights on all of them. In this day and age, with email, Fed Ex, faxes, and such, a New York location isn't necessary. My second agent had a New York address and he was pretty much useless.

Beth

Oh, a part of me wants you to introduce her to a Tall Dark Handsome Virgin...another part of me wants her to find me on her own. I'm so complex.

[Nateskate]

Beth, what area of WI? Most my family lives in the Fox valley area.

Anyway--you want an agent that has a recent track record that reps the same sort of stuff you do--big agency or small--if they are making sales in your genre, does it matter?

As long as they had a good sales to client ratio and they had made sales I'd heard of and I knew they weren't scams I sent a query.

On the NYC address--well, many sales are made over "lunch" so while it may not matter, my preference was for NYC agents.

Shawn

Shawn, thank you so much for writing. Again, this is a question that I'm not sure there's an answer to. My understanding is that some agents can get you the "best" deals. Well, some may get you good deals. And I'm not knocking that at all. But there's all kinds of perks, connections to t.v/radio/book clubs. Yet, there is a feeling that you are so lucky to get any deal, that should be an afterthought.

And it reminds me of when I was in High School, and there was this absolute frantic need to get past being a virgin. Sorry, I don't really feel that way, but there was this pressure, and I never felt like, "Well, you just find someone who wants to...you know." I really felt like love was supposed to be a part of the whole thing. In this "I want an agent feeding pool, I feel this same sort of "Take what you can get or you'll be a virgin all of your life" type of immediacy. And for some reason, I'm not feeling desperate. Maybe someday I'll feel different, but I'm hoping to find someone who will be "that person", and I'm not going to wake up the next day and kick myself, realizing I coulda done better if I waited.

[Jamesaritchie]

I agree with James R for the most part. But, I think you can and should have a strategy. Obviously you need to start with a query letter that will make them want to see more. Work at it until you cannot do any better. Then have a few beta readers look at it--preferably those who already have a date to the ball or who have an agent. Listen to them. Go back to the keyboard and work some more on the query.

Next, write that synop. They are hell to write at any time. But once you are holding that letter that says, Hey, I found your query enticing and would like to see a synop and 70 pages--then they become a nightmare after being sent to hell. Besides if you have it already done you can include a line in your query--I have a detailed synopsis and sample pages, or the complete manuscript ready to send at your request if interested. Shows them you know what they might want and have it ready.

Again have those who are already there take a look, rewrite as needed.

So you have the great book, you have the killer query, you have the detailed synop, you have the short and sweet synop-you are ready, set--but don’t go yet.

Research.

Research.

Look carefully into each agent you are interested in. Do they have a sales record--a recent sales record? Do you recognize the names and publishers of those that they list as clients? E-mail some of their clients--just to be sure they are clients. Do they represent authors who write in your genre or write things similar to what you write? And so on--member AAR?

Then get ten query letters ready to send out. Double check agent‘s name, spelling etc. Double check your contact info. Send.

Get the next ten ready to go. Set aside, start on next book.

When you get the first SASE back. Calmly walk into your house. Set on table and take top query from stack and go mail it. Prepare next one, add to bottom of stack.

Now open SASE. Rejection? OK. No big deal you have already sent the next letter. Asking for more material? Send it off.

Keep going until you get your "date."

Shawn

I agree with you on researching agents, but it's still all meant to get a good query to a good agent.

I'm not at all big on querying more than two or three agents at once, five at the most, however. If you're doing everything right, odds are good that several agents will say yes, which means you're going to have to say no to all but one. THis can be bad.

But mainly, if you're doing something wrong in the writing of a query letter, it's best to find out what it is before you go through too many agents.

As for New York City agents, well, you need an agent with a good sales record, and this usually means an east coast agent, even if they don't live right in New York City. I think it's important to have an agent who actually knows ediors, and who, if they don't live right in New York City, can and does get there on a regular basis.

[James D. Macdonald]

The best agent in the world can't sell an unpublishable book.

More: The best agent in the world won't try. That's what makes him the best.

Still more: An article that explains it all. On the Getting of Agents. (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004772.html)

[Nateskate]

I agree with you on researching agents, but it's still all meant to get a good query to a good agent.

I'm not at all big on querying more than two or three agents at once, five at the most, however. If you're doing everything right, odds are good that several agents will say yes, which means you're going to have to say no to all but one. THis can be bad.

But mainly, if you're doing something wrong in the writing of a query letter, it's best to find out what it is before you go through too many agents.

As for New York City agents, well, you need an agent with a good sales record, and this usually means an east coast agent, even if they don't live right in New York City. I think it's important to have an agent who actually knows ediors, and who, if they don't live right in New York City, can and does get there on a regular basis.

I'm making a list and grading them 1/4 out of 4. Less than a 1, they are X'd out. Criteria- % of New authors, Percentage of Fiction (must include fantasy), Track Record- number of books sold relative to number of people they take on. And of course, if I see they represent heavy hitters and best sellers that's a bonus. Of course, I also consider whether or not they are taking on new clients vs. referals only.

At some point, when I'm ready to go, I'm going to run my pitch in front of a number of people I trust to get their ideas. That's probably the hardest part, having the perfect pitch. Having an Epic Fantasy is really hamstringing in that you lose more in a short translation. "A hobbit finds a magic ring, and has to take it to Mt. Doom to destroy it, and the fate of the world rests in his hands." Well, since we all know LOTR we get the point. But if the LOTR was new, by a never published author, you'd have the agent saying, "What the...is a Hobbit? Magic ring, sounds rather childish. And what kind of name is Mt. Doom. Sounds like this guy watched too many Power Ranger episodes. Tosses into the trash can.

My problem is worse in some respects, because the story isn't based on a magic object, but the complex symbiotic relationship between two races from two dimensions, somewhat akin to humans and angels. (In a more mythological greek mythology sort of landscape) The idea is to capture "why" the story is so important. Who knows, Perhaps this "brief" description will come to me. But the problem I have with this, is making it a "hook". I think with a page and a half I might have a hook, but hardly in a paragraph. And the fact that this is actually a book one, is even more complex, because you are introducing characters and rules that govern the relationship, and the rest. It would be simple if you had one race good and the other evil, but both races war with themselves, and factions from the other.

Obviously others have done this, so it can be done. And I'm already forming some ideas on how to do it. Yet, being inexperienced, I don't trust my own judgment on this, and will seek expert advice before I make that final pitch.

[SRHowen]

In this "I want an agent feeding pool, I feel this same sort of "Take what you can get or you'll be a virgin all of your life" type of immediacy. And for some reason, I'm not feeling desperate. Maybe someday I'll feel different, but I'm hoping to find someone who will be "that person", and I'm not going to wake up the next day and kick myself, realizing I coulda done better if I waited.

I understand. Completely. And I did find that with my agent. I hope you find the same.

Shawn

[Nateskate]

I understand. Completely. And I did find that with my agent. I hope you find the same.

Shawn

I'm glad someone understands. And honestly, I do respect people's advice. Before I didn't have a clue. I haven't mastered anything yet, but at least I still own my manuscript, and hopefully will make some right choices.

[cwfgal]

Beth, what area of WI? Most my family lives in the Fox valley area.

I'm about 20 minutes outside of Madison. I've been here for almost 6 years now and love it. Before that I was in Richmond, VA for 16 years and hated 15 1/2 of them.

Beth

[cwfgal]

Oh, a part of me wants you to introduce her to a Tall Dark Handsome Virgin...another part of me wants her to find me on her own. I'm so complex.

Her name is Linda Hayes and her agency WAS Columbia Literary Associates. Alas, she has retired. A definite low point in my writing career. I've been floundering agent-wise ever since.

Beth

[Nateskate]

Her name is Linda Hayes and her agency WAS Columbia Literary Associates. Alas, she has retired. A definite low point in my writing career. I've been floundering agent-wise ever since.

Beth

Oh, you're such a tease. Now, if you can give me the name and number of a warm body...

Actually, there's no panic at this point. And at the moment, I'm not deciding. I'm just gathering information.

Now, if this really hot agent/publisher is turned on by my quirky sense of humor and PMs me, "Nate, you know...I just got this feeling about you...why don't you send me your manuscript." I just might return that call/email. I'm not saying "I'm easy." but for that right guy or gal, you never known.

However, don't be surprised if I submit your name to my Uncle Jim or cousin Victoria. If they think you are a cad or a POD in disguise...sorry, I'm not that easy.

[Alphabeter]

Whats with all the virgins?

I want a good prostitute. They tell better stories. Plus its a neat story when they fall in love with a non-creep and get to live a good ever after.

[jdkiggins]

Made you look!
Of course it did. I'm not dead yet. :Hug2:

I'm still researching which publishers accept unagented books in horror, suspense and thriller genres. Then I'll search for agents who represent those genres for publishing companies that accept only agented material. While I'm checking out both, I'm still line editing my manuscript.

Joanne

[edfrzr]

Now that we all are talking about dating and going to the "big dance". Would someone please make a recommendation of who I should ask to go. WIth all the input we have here along with experience, I'm certain someone knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a gal who has a cousin in the business.


Here's what I look like; there's two of me, we're both very thrilling, we love twists and revenge and would do well on the commercial market or film adaptation. I've been told I resemble some really good looking characters such as James Patterson, David Baldacci and Sandra Brown. (someone else's description--not mine)

HELP!!!!!!!!! The research is burning into my retinas.

[Nateskate]

Whats with all the virgins?

I want a good prostitute. They tell better stories. Plus its a neat story when they fall in love with a non-creep and get to live a good ever after.

Interesting metaphorical sense of humor! You made me look.

[Nateskate]

Of course it did. I'm not dead yet. :Hug2:

I'm still researching which publishers accept unagented books in horror, suspense and thriller genres. Then I'll search for agents who represent those genres for publishing companies that accept only agented material. While I'm checking out both, I'm still line editing my manuscript.

Joanne

We're neck and neck in this race. First one to Oprah wins. Unless of course you don't like Oprah. But I fance I'll have a good time, and I'll give her a laugh or too. But if she wants to make me the next Dr Phil, forget it. I just don't have that kind of stamina.

[Nateskate]

Now that we all are talking about dating and going to the "big dance". Would someone please make a recommendation of who I should ask to go. WIth all the input we have here along with experience, I'm certain someone knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a gal who has a cousin in the business.


Here's what I look like; there's two of me, we're both very thrilling, we love twists and revenge and would do well on the commercial market or film adaptation. I've been told I resemble some really good looking characters such as James Patterson, David Baldacci and Sandra Brown. (someone else's description--not mine)

HELP!!!!!!!!! The research is burning into my retinas.

At this point, I know people who know people, who own publishing companies, authors and the like. I have a list of phone numbers, but I haven't called anyone yet. First I have to make this thing shine like gold, and there are a few rough edges. For me there's not 1 re-write. I go back and read and see areas that need improving.

But here's my problem with a friend of a friend of a friend. To me that's equal to a blind date. If you can't find one you actually like on your own, then you start opening up to blind dates. I'm looking at a set of criteria for that special someone. Hard worker. Not a person who is hoping from place to place and losing manuscripts on the way. They have to be native to my Genre, already having connections with companies. So, if I find a date on my own, it is more likely to be someone I can live with than if someone hooks me up with their aunt's brother-in-laws, cousin twice removed.

No doubt, if I find I'm stuck, I'll look for favors. And if my brother were a fantasy agent, you bet I would exploit that, or if Uncle billy owned Tor or Daw, I'd say, "Uncle Bill...remember when you said you'd do anything for me..."

[James D. Macdonald]

The most that having a brother who's a fantasy agent will get you is a faster read.

Unless you happen to be the brother/best friend/signficant other of everyone you expect to buy your book, the book itself has to be non-henious.

If you haven't yet read Slushkiller (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004641.html), now's the time.

[Nateskate]

The most that having a brother who's a fantasy agent will get you is a faster read.

Unless you happen to be the brother/best friend/signficant other of everyone you expect to buy your book, the book itself has to be non-henious.

If you haven't yet read Slushkiller (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004641.html), now's the time.

It's obvious that no one is actually going to help if the book isn't worthy of being published. If that's the case, even if they print it and put it in Barnes and Nobles, eventually the public will realize it's trash, and it will end up in the garbage bin. So, it wouldn't really be a favor. You'd be labeled the guy who sold thirty books, and after that, you'd be a one "hitless" wonder that agents and publishers wouldn't touch.

I think we're talking about "Agent Anxiety Disorder", the fear of sending out dozens and dozens of books into the Agent Lottery, and having to spend two years to get "found".

I know they say if it's a really great book, it will eventually get published. Still, most of us don't like being last in a long line hoping to get a ticket. If my brother were an agent, I'd respect his opinion. If he said, "Not quite," I'd find out if it was a fixable "not quite", or a waste of time "not quite"

Ultimately, I believe I have a product that will find a place, or I would stop dead in my tracks. But if it needs an edit, I'm willing to work with a freelance editor. However, I'm convinced my story is non-henious.

[maestrowork]

What is the big hurry, Nate? If it's something you really want, isn't it worth it to wait for the "right" agent? In the meantime, keep writing other books, so that when you do get that agent, you will already have a portfolio of work to show them. You don't just sit there tweedling your fingers waiting for an agent to call (besides, by all means do sim subs -- at least query them -- and it doesn't take two years for an agent to say yes or no).

The publishing process is slow. It's not for those who want instant gratification. You can't rush it. Good thing is built to last, and sometimes it takes time. Movies are like that. We don't really realize it, but for example, The Incredibles took Brad Bird 12 years to materialize, 2 years to write, and 4 years at Pixar to make it, then came the time to market and distribute it before the public could actually see it. Who knows how many years Peter Jackson took from conception to selling the project to making the LOTR trilogy. Nobody wanted to make LOTR. If Peter Jackson didn't want to wait, we'd never have seen that masterpiece...

[Nateskate]

What is the big hurry, Nate? If it's something you really want, isn't it worth it to wait for the "right" agent? In the meantime, keep writing other books, so that when you do get that agent, you will already have a portfolio of work to show them. You don't just sit there tweedling your fingers waiting for an agent to call (besides, by all means do sim subs -- at least query them -- and it doesn't take two years for an agent to say yes or no).

The publishing process is slow. It's not for those who want instant gratification. You can't rush it. Good thing is built to last, and sometimes it takes time. Movies are like that. We don't really realize it, but for example, The Incredibles took Brad Bird 12 years to materialize, 2 years to write, and 4 years at Pixar to make it, then came the time to market and distribute it before the public could actually see it. Who knows how many years Peter Jackson took from conception to selling the project to making the LOTR trilogy. Nobody wanted to make LOTR. If Peter Jackson didn't want to wait, we'd never have seen that masterpiece...

I have a reason why I'm in a hurry, and it's personal. But that's beside the point. I haven't written a book. I've written a series. If book one gets sold, then the others should fall into place.

As much as it seems like I am in a hurry, I'm only in a hurry to do it right. So, I'm doing as much research up front as I can. As much as you might think I'm in a hurry, after seeing on multiple threads that agents shun books over 100 K, especially for new writers. Instead of trying to force something, I began re-writing. It took about 4 extra months to get book one ready.

[jdkiggins]

Good point, maestro, about it taking time. Another good point about continuing to work on other pieces in the process.

I was all gung ho to get absolutely everything on my plate finished so I could get it all published in order for my parents to see my name on something besides magazine articles, interviews, and geographical history books. In the process I got shot down; not from publishing companies, but a stroke from stress. Fourteen years later with six completed manuscripts, I'm now line editing each one and getting ready to send them off. I may be a little older now, but if the publisher likes my work, he/she is guaranteed sequels to each book. ;0

Today is the seventh anniversary of my father's death. I picked up my autographed copy of Perhaps She'll Die by M.K. Preston, editor of ByLine Magazine this morning. Her dedication buckled my knees and sent me to tears. It read: "This book is dedicated to my father, who didn't live long enough to see it published, and to my mother who did." Though very sad, it made me smile, because I had the exact same dedication written for whichever of my books may get published first.

Yes, I'm hoping at least one of my novels is published before I lose both my parents, but I know well enough not to rush, not only for health reasons, but also because the process of publishing is a long one.

It is worth the time taken and the wait. :)

Joanne

[maestrowork]

I totally understand that, Joanne. I thought about that as well as I was shopping around. I wanted my parents to see my books in print -- not because I needed validation from them (I'm way past that), but because it would mean something to me, to show them that I have achieved what I set out to accomplish.

But there are things you just can't control -- the only thing you can do is write the best book you can, and market it as hard as you can. Truly, if you build it, they will come -- it may take them a while, but they will.

Yes, I'm lucky. My parents are still alive (both sets of my grandparents died before they were 45. My parents always regret that their parents didn't see how they made a life for themselves). And my book is coming out this year. But seriously, if it could happen to me, it could happen to you. Diligence, perseverence, and a little bit of luck. Don't ever give up.

[jdkiggins]

Don't ever give up.

:Hug2: Giving up is not in my vocabulary. :)
Never has been, never will be. Especially when it comes to writing.
Hence my signature.

Joanne

[maestrowork]

I'll quote from my favorite movie:


Never give up. Never surrender
-- Commander Peter Quincy Taggart, Galaxy Quest