What is plot? and other discussion questions

[sunandshadow]

Plot is my weak point in writing, the stumbling block that trips me again and again. I've read most of the available theory at the topic but still have a lot of questions. So I thought I'd toss them out here, maybe we'll all learn something from the discussion. :)


What is plot? Yes we've probably all heard plot described as a series of events. Most of us have heard that that series of events begins with an initial incident, goes through rising action, climaxes, then ends with a resolution. Or this sequence can be chopped up a bit - you can start in medias res with the rising action and stick the initial incident in the backstory or a flashback. Some stories end right at the climax or have only a paragraph or two of resolution, while others have 50 pages of falling action and resolution. Some novels are more episodic or meandering and don't really have a dramatic climax, they just end wherever the author didn't feel like continuing the story or didn't think anything else they could say would be interesting.

Some plots are circular, ending where they began, some novels have 2 plots happening in parallel, some have subplots which only last part of the length of the novel. Some plots are focused on the struggle between a hero and a villain, some follow several characters none of whom is a hero or villain.

A plot (arguably) must accomplish several things: at least one character achieves personal growth (character arc), the climax and resolution express the final opinion in a thematic argument (aka the moral of the story) by handing out rewards and punishments among the characters, and the reader who is vicariously adventuring with the characters is provided with escapism, catharsis and/or other psychological satisfactions, and possibly has been taught something.

I can say all that, but I still don't have a gut-level grasp on what plot is made out of or how I should go about building one. I can use theory or one of these methods like the snowflake method or the hero's journey to construct a generic plot, but how so I know whether that structure is right for a particular book idea, how do I figure out the details of what should actually happening where I have [rising action] and [climax] penciled in? How do you think of plot, and how do you go about creating it in your prewriting? (Or I imagine lots of you make it up as you go along, but if I make a story up as I go along it come out pretty much plot-free. :Shrug: )


Coming at this issue of plot from a different angle - when you read, do you actually enjoy the plot? Is it just there in the background to keep the characters feeling different interesting emotions? Have you ever felt a book had too much plot which got in the way of more important stuff, or felt that a book had almost no plot but succeeded anyway?


And feel free to say anything else you want to say about plot, this is an open discussion thread. :)

[JJ Cooper]

Ok, so here is the JJ definition of a novel:

Use the Interroagatives.

Who = characters
What= events (story)
Why = the reasoning of the story
When = timeline of events
Where = setting
How = ties the events/characters/story together

Plot is the underlying glue that sticks all of the interrogatives together. As long as you use the interrogatives and have a beginning, middle and end, you have a novel.

JJ

[shelboselby]

Honestly? I think plot tends to be a lot more plain that people allow it to be. I think people spend to much time looking for their plot when it's probably there all along.

Simply put, plot is whatever happens. A novel can be more character driven, and perhaps your novels are, and that's why you don't notice as much plot. It's not about events, it's about the people.

But really, plot is just the stuff that actually happens in a story. Really, I think it gets overanalyzed far too much. Any story that really IS a story has some sort of plot. Even a book where people sit in one room, never move, and just talk the whole time would have plot...the plot would be in whatever events the people were discussing.

[Finni]

You have a character with a goal, which become the story question (will the character succeed?), and you have conflict conflict conflict. The character does not have to succeed by the way. As long as the character changes, grows, etc.
Unless of course you have one of those series crime novel things going for you. Usually the MC doesn't change emotionally, it is the action the readers are into. You need to ask yourself at the beginning of the story, "What is going to drive my story forward? The action or the character?"

If the action os driving the story it wouldn't make sense to have a long resolution after the climax. However, in my opinion, character driven stories would be very disappointing without a long resolution. I want to see how this person changes. I'll have to think of two books I think will show the difference, but I need to have my coffee before I think too hard.

[DeleyanLee]

I have a somewhat unpopular definition of plot that I've come to understand over the last many years of writing and studying writing: Plot is the artificial structure placed by the author to make the Story comprehensible to the reader.

It doesn't matter what form that structure takes--as long as it helps the reader understand what is going on and why it's important.

Plot does a lot of things, it arranges conflicts, structures the building of tension and stakes, and gives the reader sign-posts along the way so they (think they) know what to expect.

Because Plot is just the road map (to use a bad analogy), what the structure looks like completely depends on the author and the story being told. But Plot still remains only the route, not the entire trip or experience of the book. I maintain Plot is far from the most important element of the story (I think the merging of all the elements is the most important thing), but it's easy to pick apart and fuss over because it's artificial and surfacy, so people do.

Sorry if this sounds a little snappy, but I've been dealing with a lot of friends coming to me (I'm told I have a talent in plotting) with plot hysterics in the last few weeks and just feel like I'm repeating myself too much lately.

[Bufty]

Most folk who can write stories simply write them without racking their brains over what plot is. There's a beginning a middle and an end, and if you want to put little detours in between -feel free. Miss out the beginning the middle or the end and you don't have a story.

You don't have to know your plot in advance to be able to write a good story.

But if you can't write a good story without knowing the plot in advance, you need interesting characters in some sort of difficulty, friction, a beginning, a middle and an end.

I can't help beyond that, I'm afraid.

[maestrowork]

Plot is not just a series of events. They are events that lead to consequences that leads to other events, based on realistic reactions from the characters toward conflicts.

Strong characters drive strong plot because of their strong reactions to strong conflicts that lead to strong consequences.

When someone says your plot is weak, it can mean a few things:

a) cliches -- predictable consequences from predictable characters doing predictable things. Unimaginative: rich girl meets poor boy, their families object, they run away.

b) the stakes are not high enough -- the conflicts and consequences are of the "ho hum, who cares?" type: the character is bored and does something and it gets him a B+ in class instead of an A, when he doesn't even care about that class anyway...

c) weak characters and weak motivation/reaction -- the wants and desires of the characters are murky, undefined, or just weak: man steals a shirt because he thinks he looks good in it... or worse, for no reason at all.


When you have only one of the above, it's easier to recover or fix. But if you have all three, you're in a bind. Your plot and your story will feel flat and uninteresting.

[dawinsor]

Maestrowork took the words right out of my keyboard. Plot isn't just a series of events. It's a series of causally linked events that fall like dominoes, faster and faster as the book goes on. B doesn't just happen after A; it happens because of A.

And may I say that I know that and it sounds simple and I still find it incredibly hard to do. I still catch myself having characters do things because I need them to.

Additionally, I don't believe you can separate plot and character. A plot happens because of what the character does, and we know the character through his or her actions.

[Danthia]

What's that old adage? Plot is a verb?

How do you think of plot, and how do you go about creating it in your prewriting?
I look at plot as the things the protag does to solve the novel's story problem. Conflict + stakes + resolution. I like to have a solid framework of my plot before I write, but I let the details come spontaneously. Your novel is about something. Getting the girl, stopping the terrorists, finding the true heir to the throne. Whatever. This is the goal of your protag and the novel. Once they accomplish X, then novel ends. And it’s absolutely vital that your protag accomplishes X, because if they don’t, they lose the love of their life, the terrorist blow up the Superdome, and the evil Lord Goobob enslaves the land and feeds them all to carnivorous elves. Stakes are critical to plot, because without stakes, why should the reader care if your protag wins or not? Most ho-hum MSs I read fall short due to stakes. I just don’t care, because in the end the protag isn’t any better or worse off than when they started the novel. The problem doesn’t matter or isn’t compelling or interesting to see how it’s resolved.

Once I have my goal and stakes, I look at how my antagonist will get in my protagonist’s way, and what other obstacles can keep my protag from his goal of X. I like to find 8-10 set pieces so I have a concrete “wow” scene/event the reader can see coming and anticipate. “Oooo what will happen when Bob does Y?” I find having a framework of external plot moments with high stakes spaced throughout the novel, all building toward my climax, helps me keep the novel moving and the pace fast. I always know where I’m going, but rarely how I’ll get there. I let the world and my characters shape that. If you know the next step your protag has to accomplish to move them closer to the big story goal, then you ask yourself “what can get in their way and keep them from it?” And don’t just think of “stuff” to toss at them. Use your world, your protag’s history and flaws, personality etc, to find those obstacles. If Bob has to rescue the princess, but to get there he has to traverse the swamp, then give him a personal issue that makes the swamp more than just a physical obstacle. Maybe he can’t swim, or his brother was killed by swamp rats or something. Or he needs a guide through the swamp, but the only person crazy enough to enter the giant swamp rat infested place needs his swamp buggy out of hock first. So Bob has to deal with the swamp buggy before her goes into the swamp after the princess. (Bad examples, but hopefully you get the idea LOL)

I've read plenty of MSs in various writer’s groups where the "plot" is basically watching the protag go about their day to day lives, and at some point having to make a choice between things. Usually, the choice has no consequences. I see this a lot in novels about someone finding love, over overcoming a troubled past, questioning a marriage or relationship. The plots here are pretty yawn-worthy because there are rarely any stakes. Working out personal issues isn’t all that compelling without something bigger in the picture that makes working out those issues matter on a larger scale.

When you read, do you actually enjoy the plot?
Of course. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t be reading it. Plot is a fancy way of saying story. The plot events make up how the story unfolds. If I don’t like or care about how the story unfolds, I look for another book.

Is it just there in the background to keep the characters feeling different interesting emotions?
No, the emotional aspect comes from internal conflict, not external. I see a lot of MSs mistake internal struggle for plot, which typically results in slow stories that don’t go anywhere. The situations (plot) can affect your characters in all kinds of ways. Each character will have a backstory and life experiences that will shape how they feel about whatever you put in front of them. A hero whose father was a petty thief and ruined their family might have a huge problem if faced with a dilemma that requires him to steal to win. His external need is in conflict with his internal beliefs, so he might stay true to himself and not steal, requiring him to find another way around a problem that would have been easily solved by theft. Or he might steal and face all kinds of inner turmoil that cause him to do something that makes his troubles worse. Plot conflicts should never be easy for your protag to choose what to do. Put them between the rock and the hard place. If the choice is clear and has no consequences, then who cares what the protag does?

Have you ever felt a book had too much plot which got in the way of more important stuff, or felt that a book had almost no plot but succeeded anyway?
Too much plot usually translates to all kinds of “stuff” happening and none of it seems to matter. It isn’t putting the protag in any moral conflicts, it doesn’t actually reveal more about the story or characters, it doesn’t do anything differently than previous action scenes. It’s just more of it. Again, it comes backs to stakes. If nothing is at stake that the reader cares about, then the action is boring. I can’t think of any titles for these though. As for a book that had little “plot” but was wonderful, was “The Thirteenth Tale” by Diane Setterfield. But this is a literary novel, so plot has a totally different meaning there. The story question “Who is Vida Winter?” was so compelling that you read on because you want to know the truth as much as the narrator. That’s really what it all comes down to in the end. You pose a story question, either at the start of the novel or on the back cover. The reader decides if this is a question they want to see answered. If yes, they read your book. If no, they don’t. Your job is to plot it and let the story unfold so the reader doesn’t know what might happen next but desperately wants to see how the events turn out. Put your protag in situations where the outcome isn’t plain as day.

Sorry about the mini-treatise (grin). I hope it’s helpful!

[LaceWing]

I happened to be googling along these lines and came across a very thorough review of Truby's Anatomy of A Story (by C J Singh on Amazon) and then located a gloss of the 22 steps in the book here:

http://www.simplyscripts.net/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1089134291/

At the moment this is my take on it: there's a state of mind and/or world predicament at the beginning, a change at the end. I want to unravel how this change could have happened and why. Choosing the events, the setting, the characters are all part of the artistry I need to use to reveal the two states and the transition.

[Jeffrey Pace]

This is a sore spot for me. I recently got a rejection letter where the publisher told me he loved my writing and my style but that there wasn't much of a plot.

Obviously I took it as constructive criticism but he based this on only two chapters and a VERY short (his request) 1 page synopsis.

Now that my selfish rant is done, look at some of the bestsellers out there. Yes, if you are writing a Harlen Coben type book with a million twists in it then yes you better have a hell of a plot. But what if you are writing something rather straightforward? Look at Stpehen King's 'Misery.' Are you going to tell me that is an in depth plot? It is King's character's (Annie Wilkes and Paul Sheldon) and his story telling capabilities that drive the book.

I think everyone expects twist after twist these days. Whatever hapepened to a basic, hardcore page turner with great charcters and straight ahead story telling at a good pace? I swear I have read books with plot twists so unnecessary that I believe they were added just to be added.

I personally believe that if you are a good writer who can flesh out likeable characters and bring your reader into your own little world, then a good plot, while necessary of course, isn't the be all end all to determine whether the book succeeds or fails.

Jeffrey

[Will Lavender]

Most folk who can write stories simply write them without racking their brains over what plot is. There's a beginning a middle and an end, and if you want to put little detours in between -feel free. Miss out the beginning the middle or the end and you don't have a story.

You don't have to know your plot in advance to be able to write a good story.

But if you can't write a good story without knowing the plot in advance, you need interesting characters in some sort of difficulty, friction, a beginning, a middle and an end.

I can't help beyond that, I'm afraid.

Agreed.

Plot shouldn't be overly complicated by the writer. If you've ever told a story in front of the water cooler at work, then you know what plot is.

[Jeffrey Pace]

Plot shouldn't be overly complicated by the writer. If you've ever told a story in front of the water cooler at work, then you know what plot is.

Haha, excellent. I might steal that one...for the water cooler ;)

[Jeffrey Pace]

Just wanted to add something to what I wrote above, but it concerns a movie, not a book, so please try not to hate too much.

Their was a film released a few years back, a French horror film that was BRUTAL and beyond suspenseful. It was called High Tension. It was straight ahead in your face horror to the nth degree and it was awesome...until the end. Why? Because they added a totally stupid, unnecessary twist at the end of it that negated everything we had just watched.

If they had kept it simple and in the direction I believed it was going I would have been completely blown away by it for it's in your face brutality, SIMPLICITY, and nailbiting suspense. BUT, I supose the writers felt there wasn't enough plot so they added their silly twist to the end which had me clicking off my DVD player and going, "That sucked."

Last rant I promise.

Jeffrey

[BlueTexas]

This is the first plot discussion I've seen where the stakes are mentioned. This is brilliant and sure answers a lot of the simple but elusive plot questions I struggle with!

[sunandshadow]

How about controlling idea/premise? (As described in Robert McKee's _Story_ among other places. Or click here for a brief explanation: http://www.storyentertainment.com/print.asp?idarticle=2391 ) Do you know what your novel's controlling idea is before you start writing? Figure it out in the middle? Not figure it out until you're done, or do you have a finished novel which you don't think has a controlling idea?

Do you know any exercises or have any advice for someone trying to figure out what their story's controlling idea is?

[Linda Adams]

I can say all that, but I still don't have a gut-level grasp on what plot is made out of or how I should go about building one.


Me, too. This is question is timely for me because I struggle with my plotting skills. I used to be a short story writer and still have issues I have to work through when writing a novel. I tend to underwrite in the plotting and subplotting areas--and worse, I'm not aware I'm doing it until I either run short or run into problems somewhere else because I didn't do something. The first draft of my last project didn't have a plot; it was a string of action scenes. It had to be revised extensively to find the plot. The revisions were very painful. Every time I solved one plot problem, I unearthed another. I've been trying to find a way to make this less difficult so maybe I don't have to make a million revisions.

I know I do need to come up with the plot first, before I start writing. I also need to make sure it's really worked out before I start writing or I'm going to have false starts. For my WIP, to come up with the plot, I started out with what was going to make the book special and different from other books in the genre and then developed it from there. Even then, I've had several false starts and had to revamp the plot. As far as I can tell, I'm still thinking short story and not thinking big enough for a novel.

I did try The Marshall Plan for Novel Writing, though it didn't really work that well for me. How he did subplots completely derailed me; every time I hit the subplot sections, the story crashed and burned. But I did get something out of the book. He talks about surprises in the story, so I'm planning for one about one third from the beginning and another one a third from the end. That might be something worth looking for. It's less about theory and more about step-by-step.

[Danger Jane]

Plot and character are inseparable. The plot is what occurs when characters interact and their interests collide. Each is a function of the other, although the characters tend to interest me more than the situations they are thrust into.

I don't see what's wrong with dissecting the notion of "plot". Some writers think more about the abstract and theoretical aspects of their craft than others. Neither method is superior--they're just different ways of looking at writing. It helps me to think about this stuff, for sure. Not everyone. But me, at least.

[Raphee]

Timely discussion and good one. I {once} believed that I didnt need a plot. The story of my characters would make a good novel.
As I look at my finished MS, I notice that events are happening either too late, too quickly in succession, or not creating enough stakes.

To put it simply; the sequence and significance of plots that effect the story, is that what plot is?