When publishers take risks; books that flop

[aruna]

I was researching a certain agent and googled up this story of an novel that broke all the rules, got a huge advance froma major publisher, and sank into oblivion.

http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,6109,1150680,00.html

The author was 71 when the book was taken on by a top agent, who had read parts of it in the past. The ms was a whopping 300000 words. It was an everyday story about everyday people and everyday situations, according to this article.

That was three years ago. I have never heard of the book or the author, and its amazon rankings are very low. I am pretty sure it did not earn back the advance... surely it would have had ot be a bestseller to do that.
The author has not published another book since.

I wonder what prompted the publisher to go for it, and having gone for it, why they did not promote it so that people ike me could not miss it? I just think it's weird. I mean, 300000 words!
Stories like this make me despair.. and give me hope.


0

[juneafternoon]

*dreamland time*

If I was offered a LOT of money for a book, I would be so freakin' scared that it wouldn't work out lol. I would probably leave money on the table, because if it worked out I'd get that money anyway, and if it didn't then I'd wouldn't make my publisher lose a ton of money and be reluctant to work with me again.

I don't think that displays any sort of disbelief in my work; I could fully believe in its pizazz but I could be doubtful about the market.

I'm a worrywart. :(

[Will Lavender]

I own the novel. I got maybe 100 pages in, and it's pretty clear why it wasn't a commercial success. The first 25 pages detail the main character looking out his window. The publisher must have been pushing, though, because I bought the book after seeing Chadwick on television.

The book does have a dark, rueful sense of humor. But I just don't think book buyers go for minimalism, and this novel is pretty clearly minimal on all levels. Not my kind of book, really.

[IceCreamEmpress]

I don't know if it "flopped" exactly. It was certainly reviewed everywhere in the UK, and in the very-influential-in-the-US New Yorker and New York Times.

I remember looking at it in a bookstore, reading the first few pages, and thinking "Oh my God I would die of boredom if I tried to read this book." And I ordinarily enjoy the large doorstoppy novel of everyday life (C. P. Snow, Pamela Hansford Johnson, Elizabeth Jane Howard, Cheryl Mendelsohn, Jonathan Coe, et al.)

There was a similar US novel in the 1980s--it was a best-seller, first novel from a woman in her 80s who was a retired English professor. It was 600+ pages about a tiny Ohio town. And Ladies of the Club by Helen Hooven Santmyer. I read it. That's four hours of my life I'll never get back.

[nerds]

Some time ago I read - and I can't link to it because I've forgotten where I saw it, darn it - that following the huge success of Cold Mountain Charles Frazier was offered and took a monster advance on his next book, which according to the article was not begun yet, and that he then struggled with the book. The implication was that he was freezing up under the pressure/expectation of the huge advance and the huge performance of his first book.

In any event, this next book, his second, hasn't performed nearly as well as the first. But how many books could? I've read both, and I do see the differences between them. The first reads as effortless, the second you're aware of the effort.

Anyway. These monster advances always seem risky to me purely from a business standpoint. Not that I will ever, ever be in such a position, I won't, but if I were I know I'd ratchet the advance down voluntarily, I seriously would. To me it's crazyland to risk so much money and be under that much pressure - it would suck the creativity out of me like a Shop-Vac and I wouldn't be able to deliver.

I suppose there might be writers who would thrive under it but not I. Business-wise, amazingly risky.

[aruna]

I don't know if it "flopped" exactly. It was certainly reviewed everywhere in the UK, and in the very-influential-in-the-US New Yorker and New York Times.

.

I must have missed it, then... I never heard of it, and I do try to keep up with new releases.

From the amazon reviews it sounds extremely slow moving, which is what made me wonder... 300000 words, an elderly author, not a page turner... I wonder why?

I did try Ladies of the Club and didn.t get very far!

[James D. Macdonald]

Take home lesson: Publishers take risks all the darned time.

[Susan Breen]

Take home lesson: Publishers take risks all the darned time.

That's a really good point. Don't we want publishers to take risks (hopefully on us)? Better for them to choose something that somebody might find boring than to stick with the safe bets. Clearly somebody loved that book, and they went for it. And they got shot down. But congratulations to that editor, whoever she is.

[aruna]

That's why I said such stories are encouraging. Somewhere out there, some editor could fall in love with the books we write.

[jenstrikesagain]

Interesting that the first 25 pages are about a character looking out a window. Robert Jordan's "The Eye of the World" had a fairly incomprehensible first ten pages followed by fifteen more of some guy walking to town. I mean, I know the Wheel of Time series is a runaway bestselling publishing phenom by any stretch of the imagination but how on earth did an agent/publisher make it through the first chapter? Or hell, the first 150-odd pages before anything actually happens? If somebody hadn't been leaning on me saying, "Keep going, it gets better," I never would have. (Incidentally, I did, liked it, got through the next seven or eight and quit after Path of Daggers when I discovered that the one plot line that still interested me wouldn't show up again for two more volumes.)

[Garpy]

I remember this story in the paper. Hadn't thought about since, until spotting this thread, that is.

I personally would go for the big advance every time, if it were offered. Okay, you might not earn out...okay, you might freeze on the second book, but hell, it's money in the bank.

Plus....you can bet the publisher will throw shedload of marketing money after a big advance to make sure they get some sales and save their blushes.

[windyrdg]

Ice Cream: Helen Hooven Santmeyer is always wheeled out as proff that you're never to old to write. Tried several times, but never could "get" that novel...or get into it. Sidebar: She was in the same nursing home as my mother. Nice old lady.

June: Take the money and run. If the thing flops you can always publish under a pseudonym. Who knows when you'll catch the publisher in such a generous mood again?

A few years one of the agents I researched was really touting a certain young author (who shall remain nameless) on their website and her six figure debut deal. I bought the book for 3 bucks out of a remainder stack about six months later. Awful book. My wife and I had a good laugh over it. The sad thing is that I could've used that six figure advance and they've alreadyspent it.

[David I]

There was a similar US novel in the 1980s--it was a best-seller, first novel from a woman in her 80s who was a retired English professor. It was 600+ pages about a tiny Ohio town. And Ladies of the Club by Helen Hooven Santmyer. I read it. That's four hours of my life I'll never get back.

It took me something on the order of 20 hours...and I didn't finish it.

[HeronW]

'And Ladies of the Club' by Helen Hooven Santmyer was one of the women's lit books that I enjoyed. The politics and backstabbing and all the mintuia of keeping something going with people you hate and those you think you're better than and all of it--reminded me why I don't read women's lit. I did enjoy the books chosen to be read in the club, and how some were thought too 'daring' or progressive. Being in Israel, I have limited choices in the local library fo Eng. books so I take what I can get just to pass the time.

[aruna]

I don't know if it "flopped" exactly. It was certainly reviewed everywhere in the UK, and in the very-influential-in-the-US New Yorker and New York Times.

.

Well, flopped has to do more with actual sales than reviews and media buzz. Flop means, didn't earn back the advance. Of course, there's no way of knowing this from the outside, but generally a book would have to be a universally known bestseller to earn back six figure advances. For instance, titles such as The Red Tent or House of Sand and Fog or The Lovely Bones... who hasn't heard of them?

I am just surprised that the publisher would risk so much for a book that breaks ALL the rules. I mean, a long book that is unputdownable, full of action and changing events, fine. Or a minimalistic book where hardly anything happens except people looking out of windows, but is beautifully written, also fine... but it has to be SHORT.

A combination of super-long and super-slow, plus by an elderly author... it just seems so un-publisher-like.

[LordDelusions]

this is like that Opal Mehta book...the plot seems kinda not new...

[Garpy]

Yeah...i know what you're saying Aruna. Atleast a dozen times a year I'll come across a book that has me asking how the hell it got off the slush pile, how the hell it got a positive appraisal from a junior reader, how the hell the junior reader's editor bothered to read it and successfully champion it through the various acquisition meetings.

Given the amount of internal agonizing, second-opinioning, profit-calculations I now know that publishers go through before finally making a modest offer...I'm utterly stunned at some of the appallingly bad books that get through. (And, I'm not talking about celeb books....which you can understand will get published simply because of the celeb author.)

[jenstrikesagain]

Which leads one to wonder if "The Da Vinci Code" would have ever gotten published had "Angels and Demons" not done respectably well first. I mean, by itself, would it ever have cleared the slush pile?

[maestrowork]

that following the huge success of Cold Mountain Charles Frazier was offered and took a monster advance on his next book, which according to the article was not begun yet, and that he then struggled with the book....
In any event, this next book, his second, hasn't performed nearly as well as the first. But how many books could?

Yeah, he got $8 million advance because of the success of Cold Mountain. Boy, I would HATE to have that kind of pressure -- even Viagra may not help with the performance. It took him 8 years to write the second book, and it wasn't the success they'd hoped for. $8 million. He would have to do JK Rowling's business to earn out his advance.

Same thing happened to Thomas Harris. I think he got $7 million for Hannibal Rising (including movie rights, etc. though). Again, they bought into the hype and I'm sure his agent(s) pushed for the astronomical deal, probably saying something like, "This is Hannibal Lecter we're talking about!" I've heard a rumor that Thomas Harris actually sabotaged the book and screenplay so they won't bother him to write another book in the future... but I suspect that's just a nasty rumor.

[maestrowork]

A combination of super-long and super-slow, plus by an elderly author... it just seems so un-publisher-like.

Then again, if I were 71, I would take the money and run. Who cares if I would never be published again? My book would be out there -- whether you buy it or not is not my problem anymore -- and I would retire comfortably. ;)

But I know what you mean. Sometimes you wonder how a publisher makes their decision. This book does seem to break all the rules about what is "publishable." Even "literary" fiction has its limits and it doesn't generally sell in millions, especially not 300,000-word long. That seems very self-indulgent.

[maestrowork]

Which leads one to wonder if "The Da Vinci Code" would have ever gotten published had "Angels and Demons" not done respectably well first. I mean, by itself, would it ever have cleared the slush pile?

That's different. Dan Brown had already had four books published with mid-list success. The Da Vinci Code has a killer concept and potential controversy. Even if it hadn't become a superstar best-seller, I bet it would have done pretty well.

The problem with Mr. Brown is now that he's a superstar, he will need to perform, and all eyes are on his next book. Also, people will have to gauge if the A&D movie is a hit or a flop (my guess is, it will be a hit -- it is a better thriller than DVC). The A&D movie will definitely push his next book sales.

[wayndom]

Take home lesson: Publishers take risks all the darned time.

Because they have to. No one can tell in advance if a book is going to be a bestseller or a flop.

David Letterman used to ask movie stars, "How can you tell if a script is going to work or not?" and every one replied, "By watching the finished movie."

I've seen countless comedians asked, "How can you tell if a joke is funny?" to which they all replied, "When you tell it to an audience, and they either laugh or don't."

There'll always be big-budget flops, in books, movies, music, etc. It's part of the landscape.

[wayndom]

Then again, if I were 71, I would take the money and run. Who cares if I would never be published again? My book would be out there -- whether you buy it or not is not my problem anymore -- and I would retire comfortably. ;)


I'm glad someone else said what I was thinking...

[wayndom]

Same thing happened to Thomas Harris. I think he got $7 million for Hannibal Rising (including movie rights, etc. though).

Another example is the three-book movie rights deal Anne Rice made for about 20 million. It seems Hollywood hadn't picked up on the fact that none of the sequels to Interview were nearly as good as the original.

[Don Allen]

Interesting thread, I don't know about the rest of you, but I actually have a tough time with most of the new supposedly best sellers out there. I just find most to be boring. I'm not picking on anyone, but I would rather read something that seems to be going somewhere than 25 pages of flowery bullshit that means nothing. I can't even recall a book I picked up at Borders before Christmas that was by some chick that was supposedly on fire as authors go. four paragraphs describing a freaking couch and wall paper in a room that the charactor never stepped foot in again. No wonder I can't get picked up.... I need to describe a piece of furniture.

[Haphazard]

Interesting thread, I don't know about the rest of you, but I actually have a tough time with most of the new supposedly best sellers out there. I just find most to be boring. I'm not picking on anyone, but I would rather read something that seems to be going somewhere than 25 pages of flowery bullshit that means nothing. I can't even recall a book I picked up at Borders before Christmas that was by some chick that was supposedly on fire as authors go. four paragraphs describing a freaking couch and wall paper in a room that the charactor never stepped foot in again. No wonder I can't get picked up.... I need to describe a piece of furniture.

I'd have to agree with that. My native genre, fantasy, is one of the worst offenders.

Although, at the moment, I probably shouldn't talk. My MC has been blabbering on about the psychic imprint of everywhere he's been, regardless of whether he's going to be there ever again.

[IceCreamEmpress]

The other thing about books like this is that the advance is also an investment in publicity. Look at how much free publicity the publisher got as a result of the coverage! Media coverage is the most effective advertising, and since you can't buy it directly, it sometimes pays to invest in attention-drawing stunts.

[Shweta]

I'd have to agree with that. My native genre, fantasy, is one of the worst offenders.

Fantasy's a weird genre. The bestsellers, the fantasy books everyone knows, are... well, okay, they're not all doorstops, but a lot of them are. And that's about all I can use 'em for these days.

But there's like a secret genre lurking under that one. Dozens, or perhaps hundreds, of authors writing tight, interesting stories with compelling characters and original and well-researched settings, generally in 400 pages, not 800. I'm not talking about the literary side here, or about pushing the boundaries of the genre, I'm talking about the straight-up fantasy most people seem never to have heard of.

And I'm not sure why they haven't. Why is that side of fantasy like a secret club most people aren't in? Is it because the publishers have to publicize the tomes, so they don't have the resources to publicize the rest?